Reply With QuoteJust pay the VAT at 20%. How much will the profit be if selling to a grey here, 80%?
A close friend of mine (who currently lives and works in Dubai) has just picked up a non date Sub from a Dubai AD.
He had been on the waiting list for it for 2 years, but within that time, he has picked up a DSSD which he prefers.
He now plans to sell the Sub, but doesn’t’ know the best way to go about it, out there.
He has the warranty card and the bracelet hasn’t been sized at all, but the dealership did remove the stickers as it’’s company policy.
He’’s flying back to the U.K for Christmas, but obviously getting it through customs would be pricey!
Any advice for selling it in or out of Dubai that I could pass onto him, would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by senraw; 4th October 2022 at 21:09.
Just pay the VAT at 20%. How much will the profit be if selling to a grey here, 80%?
I don’t think it would be that much.Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli
It cost him £8,700 out there, he would be happy to take 11K. (Which I understand is a healthy profit)
Alternatively, just list it on Chrono24 from Dubai and let the buyer worry about customs. Not sure how hot the Rolex market still is, but there must be plenty of people out there looking for one.
I think he has looked into this, but the commission seemed extortionate to him.
Maybe the real question he's asking is how do I make the maximum possible profit on the Sub I bought in Dubai? Sounds like he didn't think it through before parting with £8.7k.
Just pay the VAT and make a good profit.
To sell it - let the buyer deal with any tax due on import to their country. Ebay now has the trusted seller platform. There may be others. Maybe you can suggest to him some re-sellers in UK? I don't know the market place Dubai.
If he wants to bring it into UK to sell - cough up the 20% VAT payable - through the red channel
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 4th October 2022 at 21:17.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
How did he originally plan to get it out of Dubai? Whatever the answer, it’s still the answer, no prizes for guessing!
If he was prepared to buy in Dubai he must’ve had a plan to get it home.
He was planning on keeping it.
But due to him currently living in an apartment, travelling a lot and potentially moving to Saudi Arabia in the new year, moving it on seems the best option.
Do you mean the Top Rated Seller status? That's only available if you meet certain criteria.
The authenticity guarantee is (as far as I know) only available for domestic, within-country, sales in the USA and UK. It doesn't apply for cross-border sales or, as far as I know, other countries.
He may resort to doing this.
I don’t think parting with 8.7K was an issue, he’s definitely not short of cash. But he does like making and spending money.
I’ve advised him just to keep it as an investment, but he thinks selling is the best option for him.
Surely in investment terms, keeping is probably not currently the best option. Time to sell before prices drop further.
I think this may be his best option.
He will only be here for a couple of weeks whilst visiting family over Christmas, so I may have to try and sell it for him.
Thanks Mark. I haven't used the service so didn't know that
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
I was thinking more long term.
Sitting on one of the last produced 40mm subs for 10 years un-used might be beneficial.
£8.7k plus 20% VAT = £10,440.
Not sure where a big profit would be coming from for the chap.
Dealers sell these around £11-11.5k.
Either keep it or sell it from Dubai.
Why not resign himself to paying the VAT and just see if he gets stopped. I'd never condone this morally wrong behaviour of course.
There must be a market in Dubai without worrying about the tax issue, and that would be my route in his position. I don’t think UK dealers are paying that close to £10k for these anymore, and prices continue to fall closer to RRP than even a couple of months ago, which experienced a big drop by then in any case.
It's just a matter of time...
Thank you all for the advice, greatly appreciated.
I will chat with him again tomorrow and share all your thoughts with him.
If you get stopped once and found to be smuggling stuff in through the green channel, you’ll pay a fine + vat and get flagged every time thereafter.
Personally I don’t think it’s worth the risk. Your friend would do well to break even in the current climate if he does decide to import & pay vat. Better to list it for 10 bags on eBay in Dubai, he will find a buyer in no time.
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He works there in Dubai....I don't know the details but would have thought he can bring anything in and not pay import if he can show is going out again...no? So return flight and proof of job/residence. I'd size the bracelet and wear it.
I'm probably naïve on this, but can't your friend ship the empty Rolex box and wear the watch to the UK...even on a NATO strap?
He could always as previous post said ship box to family member and wear watch
Then leave watch with family member for a small amount of time to see if picked up on return to Dubai.
Hardly think they will notice he could say he was late for flight, misplaced watch. No sale immediately then sell after a decent time period has elapsed. But i think he will struggle for 11k.
Not honest but that wasn’t the question of the post.
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Sorry you’ve lost me - he’s bringing it here to sell so I assume vat is due. Unless he is knowingly trying to dodge vat by pretending he’s taking it back when he is not…
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Gulf of Oman, Arabian sea, Indian ocean, South Atlantic...
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I assume the OP (and friend) know about and have discounted the smuggling options but are looking for the least expensive (most profitable) legal options.
There are loads of dealers in Dubai which if he works there he will know.
Selling there is easy.
Am guessing price offered is not what he wants hence now is looking for ways to avoid tax to get more.
Funny how many here can get their knickers in a twist over Chinese lookalike watches and yet codone tax evasion on a Rolex...
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Would have thought the Straight of Hormuz is the trickiest part.....
Certainly not without its risks...
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Even from reading the OP just after it was posted, I knew where it was destined....................
If your close friend lives and works in an overseas jurisdiction, that friend pays all taxes of that jurisdiction.
If your friend travels to the UK, the watch is not subject to any taxes. - just like any overseas visitor.
If you friend decides to sell the watch IN the UK (rather than TO the UK) - I doubt there will be any HMRC tax claim. However, if there ever was.....and you can demonstrate you purchased the watch for your own use as a UK citizen and the watch is OVER 6 months old, again I do not think there is a tax claim.
If you bring a whole raft of watches to sell...that may be difficult to justify as a personal/non-business tax dodge and you may well be in trouble.
Caveat. Im am not an Expat tax and import/export expert. I have little experience in this type of practice. This post serves as direction to research only.
Tax evasion is much worse.
Fakes are only funding criminality - people smuggling, terrorism etc whereas tax evasion is funding the Government.
its simple the guy wants to sell a tax free sub from dubai for full price in europe or the UK nothing more to it than that. he sees the 6.5% C24 commission as excessive so clearly wants to maximise his return.
Either he brings it back to the uk next time he comes and sells it when he gets there or he pays all the taxes due and makes SFA.
Even from reading the OP just after it was posted, I knew where it was destined....................
He was living in the same apartment, travelling a lot and potentially moving to Saudi before he bought it though ?
Sell it to a dealer in Dubai for what he paid for it would be a quick and easy way out of his predicament.
I don't see how any tax is due in the UK, he's not a UK resident, and travelling here for Christmas. What he does with his property isn't of concern to HMRC. If you go to Tenerife for Christmas and decide to sell something whilst there you're not declaring it to the local tax man.
When he gets here, a dealer's offer may have reduced - and he decides to keep it. That can't happen if he's paid VAT on entry.
It is of concern to HMRC if goods are brought here to sell.
Believe VAT is due on the value of goods, not what they sell for.
Wow Red Rackham's Treasure made real!
If I was him I'd put the box in my stowaway luggage, wear the watch and put the papers in my pocket and take a chance.
Doesn't bother me if he sneaks it in. Worth a try, fair play to him if he gets away with it.
If he recently purchased the Sub in Dubai then he would have had two options as an expat living there. One is pay 5% vat as a normal resident. The second would be 0% vat on the proviso that he’s a qualifying tourist and it is exported within 90 days of purchase.
If it’s the former then his personal possessions coming into the UK is nothing to do with HMRC. If he is stopped in the green channel he has a watch that he has bought abroad and paid tax on it. No duty due. I cannot imagine anyone will ever check that he’s taking it back out of the country when he leaves again.
If it’s the latter then duty is due. Whether he chooses to declare it on point of entry is a risk he can decide upon.
Does anyone routinely check that the vat has been paid on a second hand watch? Do the manufacturers tell HMRC they’ve received a watch for service that was sold in a different market? Doubtful. Does HMRC have the resources to cope with that anyway? Probably not.
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Sell it in Dubai or Saudi.
I dunno why he'd want to bring it back to a country thats in the middle of an economic crisis when there's a massive eastern market on the doorstep.
There is an insurance aspect. If an insured watch is subsequently lost or stolen, the insurance company could ask for proof that appropriate taxes had been paid. Being unable to demonstrate this has a good chance of voiding the cover.
For watches bought from dealers they would accept taxes had been dealt with. A private transaction would need evidence.
I’m fairly sure this is true
D
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I can add no further advice on this than the above bunch of confusion, but this thread has raised a question in my mind and I'm wondering if anyone knows the answer.
Suppose a mate in, let's say Dubai as it's the case in point, bought a watch to wear, enjoy and own.
He then comes on holiday to the UK to visit me whilst wearing the watch. No intention to stay any longer than his holiday and so no reason to declare he's "importing" the watch.
When I see the watch I fall in love with it and he agrees to sell it to me, but I want it to be legit.
Do I need to pay duty on it to do so? If so is there an easy way to tell HMRC that I'm now "importing" the watch and pay? And would they accept 20% of whatever we tell them the price he's agreed to sell it to me for? Or would it need an "official" valuation?
Just interested - this isn't a real scenario!
Here is your buyer :)
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VAT/import duty is the responsibility of the importer, not the buyer.
"Accompanied personal effects" are completely allowable, and is something we all do every time we go on holiday with watches, lap tops, cameras etc. It mean you can take things in and out with no formal procedures required. I guess at any time a high value item could be questioned, but assuming they're not usually challenged, once it's out of the home country, it's almost entirely impossible for the tax authorities to pick up on. If somebody did want to "own up" it would be 20% import VAT on the price paid.
To add to the confusion. When emigrating to EU we had to list all our possessions and sign agreement we had owned them for more than 6 months and have that list stamped by the consulate before shipping items abroad. If less than 6months possession technically 23% VAT was payable on the new price.
so depends if the item is staying in the country (it’s being imported to) or and how long it’s been owned. The item list was just one hoop to go through and items could not be shipped without it.
Also - doubtful if the authorities are joined up. But bad news if you are caught out. Tax evasion is not looked on lightly.
High value personal items went in hand luggage not via shipping company.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 6th October 2022 at 23:53.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Ha! If it were a bargain Snoopy Speedmaster I might have been the man. Alas I've no interest in Rolex and, at this moment in time, no interest in buying any watch given my self-imposed two-year ban which expires next Feb!
- - - Updated - - -
Makes sense. I didn't think of that.
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