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Thread: Parcel force delivered Item missing / stolen `

  1. #1

    Parcel force delivered Item missing / stolen `

    Hi all I purchased the Lv hold-all off here last week.
    The parcel arrived with me this morning all damaged. The box had been cut open and the Lv hold-all taken
    I refused delivery and took pics
    What happens now ?
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/DmwBNdb

  2. #2
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    Think it's down to the seller/sender to make a loss claim, supported by your images/testimony. Surprised PF attempted delivery if it was so obviously open but good that you were alive to checking it before acceptance.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by deepreddave View Post
    Think it's down to the seller/sender to make a loss claim, supported by your images/testimony. Surprised PF attempted delivery if it was so obviously open but good that you were alive to checking it before acceptance.
    Yeah I know. I said to the driver canít you see the box has been cut open. He said no.
    Unbelievable.

  4. #4
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepreddave View Post
    Surprised PF attempted delivery if it was so obviously open but good that you were alive to checking it before acceptance.
    They will always attempt to delivery if possible. That's what they are there to do afterall. It's not for them to decide that something is not worth delivering, even if damage is obvious.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 17th September 2022 at 20:20.

  5. #5
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    Sender needs to make a claim, he should refund you and deal with himself.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    They will always attempt to delivery if possible. That's what they are there to do afterall. It's not for them to decide that something is damaged, even if it's obvious.
    Fair enough, I suppose I meant that attempting to deliver a parcel that's clearly been tampered with should include the deliverer highlighting that all may not be well, rather than 'hoping' the recipient doesn't notice it which then potentially, detrimentally, impacts any claim.

  7. #7
    Whatís the procedure now ?
    Do I ask the tz seller for my money back ?
    After heís spoken to parcel force to confirm my claim

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Scepticalist View Post
    Sender needs to make a claim, he should refund you and deal with himself.

    This, no question. Any business has to deal with it this way as well. Not your problem Len, you did the right thing refusing delivery

  9. #9
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Hi all I purchased the Lv hold-all off here last week.
    The parcel arrived with me this morning all damaged. The box had been cut open and the Lv hold-all taken
    I refused delivery and took pics
    What happens now ?
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/DmwBNdb
    Since you refused delivery the package should now make its way back to the sender, as long as the sender put his address on it. Hopefully he did.

    For the sender to put in a claim for loss he'll usually ideally need the actual packaging (in my experience[1]), although your pics will presumably help.

    In scenarios like this (especially when dealing with non-commercial vendors) I think it is almost always better to accept delivery. That way the packaging material (i.e. the actual evidence needed for a claim) is in your possession.

    It's now up to the vendor to refund you and separately make the claim against PF. PF may at some stage contact you to confirm information.





    Footnote:
    1: I've put in claims for loss on a few occasions but always to RM, not PF.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 16th September 2022 at 11:08.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Since you refused delivery the package [b]should/b] now make its way back to the sender, as long as the sender put his address on it. Hopefully he did.

    For the sender to put in a claim for loss he'll usually ideally need the actual packaging (in my experience[1]), although your pics will presumably help.

    In scenarios like this (especially when dealing with non-commercial vendors) I think it is almost always better to accept delivery. That way the packaging material (i.e. the actual evidence needed for a claim) is in your possession.

    It's now up to the vendor to refund you and separately make the claim against PF. PF may at some stage contact you to confirm information.

    Cheers. the driver. I sort of know him he delivers to my shop a couple times a week
    Heís took the box back to show the manager



    Footnote:
    1: I've put in claims for loss on a few occasions but always to RM, not PF.

  11. #11
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    After heís spoken to parcel force to confirm my claim
    There's no need for the vendor to wait. When he sees the pics he will know that the item didn't reach you. His claim against PF is a separate matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Not your problem Len, you did the right thing refusing delivery
    While the claim against PF is certainly not lenlec's problem, I disagree that refusing delivery provided anyone with any benefits at all. It just means that the physical evidence for loss has now disappeared back into PF's system, with the hope that it will eventually make its way back to the sender.

  12. #12
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Cheers. the driver. I sort of know him he delivers to my shop a couple times a week
    He’s took the box back to show the manager
    Hopefully this will assist with the sender's claim.

    (But I still think that retaining the original physical evidence is better when it comes to making claims).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    While the claim against PF is certainly not lenlec's problem, I disagree that refusing delivery provided anyone with any benefits at all. It just means that the physical evidence for loss has now disappeared back into PF's system, with the hope that it will eventually make its way back to the sender.
    Indeed, with most carriers it is correct to refuse delivery. With ParcelForce however, they tell the RECIPIENT to retain until requested by PF:

    https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and...#DamageAndLoss

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Hopefully this will assist with the sender's claim.

    (But I still think that retaining the original physical evidence is better when it comes to making claims).
    He said he wanted to take the empty box away to show the manager

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    He said he wanted to take the empty box away to show the manager
    See above, that's not his company's policy.

  16. #16
    Well Iíve sent all the pics I have to our fellow tz,er. Hope he sorts it out with parcel force
    And asked for my money back.
    Cheers all for the help / info

  17. #17
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    How annoying. I guess bottom line as you didnít sign for delivery then you should be entitled to a refund. Itís then not your problem. The seller needs to battle it out with PF.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Linc View Post
    How annoying. I guess bottom line as you didnít sign for delivery then you should be entitled to a refund. Itís then not your problem. The seller needs to battle it out with PF.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I agree 100%

  19. #19
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    No way would I sign for a package that was opened, regardless of the couriers policy

    It would be easy for them to claim it wasn't damaged on delivery

    I'd have done exactly as the OP has done

  20. #20
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    No way would I sign for a package that was opened, regardless of the couriers policy

    It would be easy for them to claim it wasn't damaged on delivery

    I'd have done exactly as the OP has done
    The problem is that refusing delivery robs you of the physical evidence, the very evidence that is (potentially) needed to put in a claim (regardless of whether it is the sender or recipient who claims against the company).

    (Yes, some companies, such as RM for example, do allow the recipient to make a claim).

    Taking photos of the damage with the company's deliverer in at least one of the photos might well be beneficial if one is concerned that the company might claim that the damage was done by the recipient.

    However, in my opinion, things are different for deliveries from a commercial vendor. In that case, they are more set up to deal with refused deliveries and so refusing a delivery seems to me to make more sense.

  21. #21
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Not laying any blame at the seller, but is it possible the ĎLUIS VUITTONí was visible through the packaging?

    Or - do the thieves take a chance on what is inside?

    Parcelforce do seem to figure rather often in thefts and non-deliveries.

  22. #22
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Yeah I know. I said to the driver canít you see the box has been cut open. He said no.
    Unbelievable.
    There's your suspect

  23. #23
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    There's your suspect
    It will be interesting to see if the package makes its way back to the sender, as it should -- or just disappears.

  24. #24
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    There's your suspect
    Bet his fingerprints were all over the parcel too !!!!

    (He might well be the one with the most time on his own with the parcel, thoughÖÖÖÖÖ)

  25. #25
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    I wonder what would ensue if Lenlec had:

    Taken pics of the parcel with the deliverer, and demanded that he call his supervisor.
    Then demand that the supervisor comes out to meet him/them?

    Yeah - hindsight, I knowÖÖ..

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Bet his fingerprints were all over the parcel too !!!!

    (He might well be the one with the most time on his own with the parcel, thoughÖÖÖÖÖ)
    Correct . Have you got the tracking number etc? Seller needs to get on this quick. Do you have a ring door bell recorder or proof that he took the box away with him?

  27. #27
    Fingers crossed the sender gets his money back
    Iíve asked the tzíer for my money back and sent him my bank details

  28. #28
    must be the driver, surely when it was getting sorted someone would have noticed the damage and that it is an empty box!

    Hopefully, the sender has the item insured

    Delivery companies are getting pretty shocking, the few Amazon parcels I have received recently have just been throw over the back fence into the garden.

    Ordered a bottle of whiskey last week and it was left on the step by the front door! good thing I live in a quiet street.

  29. #29
    Craftsman
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    Sending that parcel by Parcelforce automatically gets you £100 insurance.

    Think this bag was £600.
    Additional £500 insurance would be about £18 on top of the standard charge.

    So the parcel should cost approximately £28.

    Much better and cheaper to post Special delivery. As long as it doesnít exceed the max size.

  30. #30
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    A little late, but surely RMSD would have been best. I send everything valuable that way regardless of cost

  31. #31
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    must be the driver, surely when it was getting sorted someone would have noticed the damage and that it is an empty box!
    The driver doesn't get paid to check every parcel he puts in his van, and probably has zero time to check anyway. It could have happened at the depot and the empty box was left for him to load.

    I've always thought a driver would be mad to steal from his parcels as he'd always be the first suspect, but to then deliver it would be taking brazen to new levels.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalic Mud View Post
    Sending that parcel by Parcelforce automatically gets you £100 insurance.

    Think this bag was £600.
    Additional £500 insurance would be about £18 on top of the standard charge.

    So the parcel should cost approximately £28.

    Much better and cheaper to post Special delivery. As long as it doesnít exceed the max size.
    This bag was a lot more than £600

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I've always thought a driver would be mad to steal from his parcels as he'd always be the first suspect, but to then deliver it would be taking brazen to new levels.
    You’d be suprised- I personally can think of at least 4 I suspended and terminated their employment- they get blasŤ and think they’re getting away with it
    I do hope the poster got adequate cover
    At a guess I’d say the white wrapping became torn and someone has seen the writing on the box, taken a stanly to the box and taken it
    No way that driver didn’t notice that
    Last edited by lewie; 16th September 2022 at 14:22.

  34. #34
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Sorry to read this, but why on earth was this not sent Special Delivery?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Sorry to read this, but why on earth was this not sent Special Delivery?
    I did think the same Chris

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    This bag was a lot more than £600
    Ok.
    Well if it was £1200 it would cost about £55 to post fully insured Parcel force.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    The driver doesn't get paid to check every parcel he puts in his van, and probably has zero time to check anyway. It could have happened at the depot and the empty box was left for him to load.

    I've always thought a driver would be mad to steal from his parcels as he'd always be the first suspect, but to then deliver it would be taking brazen to new levels.
    Yes he does. Itís his job. If itís open when he scans it with his PDA for the tracking (that you can monitor) it should be bagged with an apology note and discussed upon delivery. His PDA should also track his movements throughout the day .

  38. #38
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    Iím perplexed by the suggestion that someone should accept delivery of an empty box thatís been cut open. Thatís bad advise.

    OP did exactly the right thing refusing delivery, I donít care what any policy says. If you accept the delivery it becomes a he-said-she-said scenario, how do you prove the box wasnít tampered with after delivery? Fault is entirely clear cut it the package doesnít leave possession or the courier given it would have been weighed originally when sent. By refusing the recipient is entirely in the clear. It also leaves no doubt in the sellers mind about where the fault lies and that the buyer is being honest.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    Iím perplexed by the suggestion that someone should accept delivery of an empty box thatís been cut open. Thatís bad advise.

    OP did exactly the right thing refusing delivery, I donít care what any policy says. If you accept the delivery it becomes a he-said-she-said scenario, how do you prove the box wasnít tampered with after delivery? Fault is entirely clear cut it the package doesnít leave possession or the courier given it would have been weighed originally when sent. By refusing the recipient is entirely in the clear. It also leaves no doubt in the sellers mind about where the fault lies and that the buyer is being honest.
    Letís hope the delivery person entered NOT DELIVERED on his PDA. This should also be in the tracking details . As previously asked was a tracking number available to the buyer? If so check on the Parcel force App and look at the parcels status.

  40. #40
    Parcel force showing clearly not delivered
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0j7BmFP
    Last edited by lenlec; 16th September 2022 at 15:13.

  41. #41
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Parcel force showing clearly not delivered
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0j7BmFP
    Quite funny that it says damaged not package/contents missing.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenlec View Post
    Parcel force showing clearly not delivered
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0j7BmFP
    It says delivered...


    Sorry, it may not as nļ6 is not ticked.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  43. #43
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stilgoe1972 View Post
    Yes he does. Itís his job. If itís open when he scans it with his PDA for the tracking (that you can monitor) it should be bagged with an apology note and discussed upon delivery. His PDA should also track his movements throughout the day .
    Does every delivery driver have time to do this? I had the impression they would scan as quickly as possible to get them in the system and in the van, so might not inspect closely enough to see the box knifed open?

    Unless you're saying he must definitely be the thief?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Does every delivery driver have time to do this? I had the impression they would scan as quickly as possible to get them in the system and in the van, so might not inspect closely enough to see the box knifed open?

    Unless you're saying he must definitely be the thief?
    I think youíd spot that damage

  45. #45
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    Parcel force delivered Item missing / stolen `

    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Does every delivery driver have time to do this? I had the impression they would scan as quickly as possible to get them in the system and in the van, so might not inspect closely enough to see the box knifed open?

    Unless you're saying he must definitely be the thief?
    Yeap, every parcel is scanned for tracking purposes. Yes itís done as quickly as possible but a damaged box like this one should have been pulled and bagged. You can try and pin me down on whether or not heís a thief but Iím just giving you operating procedures so you can make of them what you will just as his employers will of him. He hasnít done himself any favours trying to deliver it without any acknowledgment of the damage until the customer pulled it.
    Last edited by Stilgoe1972; 16th September 2022 at 15:51.

  46. #46
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Do RM/Parcelforce use agency staff?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Do RM/Parcelforce use agency staff?
    Both do .

  48. #48
    Doesn't look well wrapped TBH, was wallpaper used?

  49. #49
    Hope it was insured at the correct value otherwise it will be tears before bedtime

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stilgoe1972 View Post
    Yeap, every parcel is scanned for tracking purposes. Yes itís done as quickly as possible but a damaged box like this one should have been pulled and bagged. You can try and pin me down on whether or not heís a thief but Iím just giving you operating procedures so you can make of them what you will just as his employers will of him. He hasnít done himself any favours trying to deliver it without any acknowledgment of the damage until the customer pulled it.
    Thanks for the inside track on this, useful to know. Did seem odd to me that the PF person wasn't expected to be upfront about a clearly damaged parcel so good to know there's a clear protocol for identifying and acknowledging damage.

    I'd have used RMSD. My only experience of a potentially tampered with delivery was with RMSD but it transpired that the sender had not included the items. The box was poorly packaged which initially lead to questions about courier theft but these were nullified when the sender was reluctant to make a loss claim and I subsequently found him selling the exact same item on another forum. I still had to go through 'small claims' but did so on principle!

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