For a long time I’ve been a bit of a stickler for flag etiquette.
I love to see our Union flag flying, be it on civic buildings or a flagpole in someone’s garden.
What really makes my piss fizz though is when the Union flag is flown upside down.
Some years ago I typed and printed out a dozen copies of instructions on why the Union flag has a right way and a wrong way up. (the cross of St Patrick not having pinwheel symmetry)
I kept these sheets in the glove box of the car. If I passed a flag that was upside down I would stop and post a sheet through their letterbox.
I figured if someone was patriotic enough to want to fly our flag they would want to fly it the right way up.
With this weeks tragic passing of our magnificent Queen, my piss has been heated again with the flag etiquette of “half mast”
In days of old, when one army defeated another. The victors flag would be raised above the losers on the same pole to show victory and defeat.
This tradition continues in the battle of life and death.
Because death has no flag, when someone important dies, and none more so than her majesty, the space left at the top of the pole should be the width of the invisible flag of death, who has defeated the flag below representing the deceased.
A BBC correspondent in Windsor remarked that the flag on the castle had been lowered a little, but not to half way…
I wasn’t on duty on Thursday evening, but have been told it resembled Fred Carno’s circus at Donnington as the MOD Guard Service and the MOD Police argued about where on the pole half mast actually was.
I’m working today and if it hasn’t been corrected it most definitely will be by 0800hrs.
Last edited by John Wall; 10th September 2022 at 06:12.
For the avoidance of doubt...link:
Half-mast means the flag is flown two-thirds of the way up the flagpole, with at least the height of the flag between the top of the flag and the top of the flagpole.
See also...UK Flags and UK flag protocol.
Or else:
Finally, there is advice from The College of Arms.
There cannot be much of an excuse for getting it wrong.
Last edited by PickleB; 10th September 2022 at 07:09.
Thank you, both, for sharing; I didn't know that. I agree, certain things need to be done correctly.
Fair play in referring to it as being the Union flag and not Jack - that gets my goat!
- - - Updated - - -
Fair play in referring to it as being the Union flag and not Jack - that gets my goat!
Boils my piss that half-mast doesn’t mean half-way up.
See Union Jack or Union Flag? for "What do you call the UK’s national flag? Vexillologists know that either name is valid." But, like you, I prefer Union Flag.Originally Posted by CardShark
Last edited by PickleB; 10th September 2022 at 08:01.
Historically, “Jacks” are flown on vessels.
Incidentally, the Donnington flag, (now correctly positioned) should be on the middle of the three poles,
the middle pole having precedence (not president)
Sadly, there’s only a hoist on the right hand one…
Another piss boil !!
Last edited by John Wall; 10th September 2022 at 12:02. Reason: Shit spelling
Specifically on the "Jack Staff".
At the risk of reheating the OP's urine, it does seem to my eyes as though the flag at Windsor is (was) flying one flag down from the top, as required.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Windsor is the perfect example of correct.
As one would expect.
It’s the half way up the pole that’s urine warming
Last edited by John Wall; 10th September 2022 at 10:23.
Guess what annoys me?
People who mount their high-horse & then use 'president' for 'precedent'.
'Yeah, but fat-fingers, predictive text, sun in my eyes etc., etc..'
______
Jim.
Did you mean precedence? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
What a beautiful day for putting Joe Biden into a bath full of jelly and saying, "How's that for setting a president?"
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
And what annoys me is poor grammar and mangled misquotations -
He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone (KJB)
or
Let him that is without sin cast the first stone (him, not he, is the object pronoun of 'let').
Last edited by SimonK; 10th September 2022 at 11:08.
I am aware that 'precedent' is an adjective. It is also a noun.
I am aware that 'precedence' is a noun.
'President' is wholly wrong.
______
Jim.
Mistaking paraphrasing for quoting really gets my llama.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Thought he knew what he was talking about and perhaps ‘president’ an archaic term for a certain flagpole.
Paraphrase Don't Preach - wasn't that a hit for Maradona in the 1980s?
______
Jim.
When the estimates were done for Mount Rushmore Monument, a cheaper option of a concrete casting was considered but ruled out as they didn't want to set a precedent/president!
My humble apologies for the grammatical error.
Of course, I meant precedence
I’m glad I portrayed an air of knowing what I was talking about,
Even though I couldn’t spell it.
Last edited by John Wall; 10th September 2022 at 12:04.
Can’t afford a llama, I have to make do with an alpaca!
I had a few hours out on a bike today in Derbyshire and Leicestershire. And a bit of Staffordshire if I'm not mistaken. Quite a lot of people in the various villages of the rural East Midlands have the Union Flag attached to a flagpole on their property; without exception all of them were flying the Union Flag today (though I sometimes see the England flag), all at half mast. However the term "half mast" was in each case interpreted more literally than the OP would prefer.
Which begs the question - where does the "half" in "half mast" come from, if it's really (as I don't doubt) meant to refer to a flag being flown two-thirds of the way up the pole?
I find it refreshingly patriotic to know that the Union Jack is being flown. Should have been done moreso before now in my opinion. Having travelled extensively across America you see the star spangled banner literally everywhere. Such is their patriotism. Normally if you see a Union Jack flying in someone's garden here you immediately think 'eccentric or nutcase'!
Flag shaggers. Grow up.
Fair assessment.
Cheers,
Adam.
If she bothers to read this thread, Her Majesty would disagree.
As to flag etiquette, meh ...
I was in London recently after being out of the U.K. for a number of years. The Union flag seemed to be everywhere. It looked ridiculous and OTT to be honest. It is certainly a lot more in your face than it use to be.
Must be another example of how we are following America down the nationalistic rabbit hole!
+1
Something to do with the Jubilee, perhaps…?
Does being patriotic or showing patriotism make you a nationalist ?
Last edited by John Wall; 11th September 2022 at 05:40.
Having spent a great deal of time in the US over the years, I'd relate it as much to jingoism as patriotism, especially in these post-MAGA days. Not something I'd want to see here, tbh, where such tendencies already seem to relate more to far-right nationalism than any kind of eccentricity.
Hasn’t that finished?
It is a spectrum but if we start to see flags on everyone’s houses like in the States then yes. Being proud of your Country is good but remember you were born there by pure luck.
It’s history is just that, history. The key is looking to the future and building upon all our history. Unfortunately, the UK is just obsessed with it’s past glories and is just backwards looking at the moment
I think it’s a sad state of play nowadays that
any flag being flown around our isles of any other nation or religion is seen as multiculturalism,
But flying our own flag is seen as eccentric or a far right lean…
That’ isn’t what I am saying and a totally different topic but you carry on
Last edited by paw3001; 11th September 2022 at 11:09.
I may be wrong (this is definitely not my specialist subject) but shouldn’t all flags be brought in at sundown ?
Most private individuals who fly their colours don’t seem to bother.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I never said that was what you were saying.
Nutter near me always flies the GB flag, no idea what that's about.
Tried to get the missus to run it up the flagpole this morning, but she was having none of it.
RN routine is:
- up at 0800 in summer, 0900 in winter
- down at sunset or 2100 local time if that is earlier
The College of Arms says: Any individual can fly the Union Flag at any time. The Union Flag may be flown on UK Government buildings all year round. Those wishing to fly the Union Flag on the designated fixed flag flying days should only fly it from 8am until sunset.
The Flag Institute says: Flags are normally flown from sunrise to sunset but they may also be flown at night, when they should be illuminated.
Take your pick...
However, the RN routine can vary, eg: On the death of The Sovereign. All flags are flown at half-mast from the announcement of the death of The Sovereign up to the end of the day of the funeral,
with the exception of Proclamation Day, when they are hoisted to the top of the flagpole from 11 am (local time) to sunset.
And HMG advises: Flags may be flown overnight during this period but should remain at half-mast.
Last edited by PickleB; 11th September 2022 at 11:16.
Oh so you aren’t following the discussion, just posting random comments. Gotcha!
What an odd thread.
I noticed this also a couple of weeks ago.
Not to the vexillologists.
Thank you
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I have a flag pole but I don't know if that makes me a nutter or eccentric. I'll leave that to others to worry about.
My Union flag is currently at half mast and stays out overnight because I can't be arsed with running out each night to take it down.
Its illuminated by the street light so maybe thats why I haven't had the flag police knock at the door and tell me off.
I also have a Yorkshire flag which I fly regularly because I'm proud of where I was brought up. Unlike those in Nottingham where I am now exiled who don't seem to know their county has a flag.
And I have a George cross but I only use that to mark our campsite at events because its getting old and unlikely to get stolen.
I think its sad that to fly our national flag is considered odd.
I think flying any flag at your home is odd…
+1
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
+2+1
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