Tudor Pelagos musings...

[buddy13]

Just a random post, with a few thoughts.

I've had my blue 42mm Pelagos for 4 years now. It's worn in anger at the gym, swimming, diving, working etc and it's Grade 2 Ti is a scratch magnet. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

It is really true that Tudor SC will not refinish it's case and bracelet during a service?

I really like the look of the Pelagos 39, but does the MT5400 movement look a bit 'off' only to me? It looks to have a 'large' base plate, which is not taken full advantage of, with the balance wheel, drive train etc being 'cramped' all in the middle? Anyone suggest why is this? The MT5612 in it's bigger brother looks much better proportioned and executed.

The bracelet taper, smaller proportion of mid links, no chapter ring and nicer (to me) 'a la Rolex Submariner' serrations on bezel and crown look much more appealing to me.

Last rant. Why do all reviewers claim that the Pelagos 39 comes in at a terrific price (4K Sterling)? I mean a few years ago you could buy a really nice Omega Seamaster 300m for 15% off retail and around 2,500 Euros. Has the world gone mad or only me?

[redsox78]

I’m only a sample size of one, but there are other examples on forums. Tudor flat refused to refinish mine, which was only scratched, not dinged. They said they can’t, which makes no sense, but they said it. I genuinely don’t get it because titanium is easy to refinish. But that and their process of swapping movements at service makes me a tiny bit suspicious as to why Tudor is relatively inexpensive. Which leads to another of your points…

“relatively inexpensive”. Ok, well they are certainly not cheap, but I guess they seem good value due to A. The movements, B. The brand and relative rarity / desirability. The Pelagos is more or less the same price as a Tag with a non in house movement (even if the Tudor movements are not *that* in house they are good specs with usually brilliant accuracy).

I love the Pelagos. Good movement, great finishing, titanium. Amazing lume, bezel. The bracelets! FXD being different. But…but. The refinishing problem always gives me pause. If it’s your only watch, or one of a couple, it’s a really weird problem that Tudor doesn’t seem to want to address. I’ve mentioned this before so I’ll stop as I’m obviously a stuck record :)

p.s. the bracelet never bothered me as much as with it’s parallel brushing your can sort that with a grey scotchbrite, but the case is a different proposition.

[redsox78]

Last rant. Why do all reviewers claim that the Pelagos 39 comes in at a terrific price (4K Sterling)? I mean a few years ago you could buy a really nice Omega Seamaster 300m for 15% off retail and around 2,500 Euros. Has the world gone mad or only me?

It’s 3.5k (so same as Breitlings superoceans, with lower specc’d movements) discounts now hard to get…but yes the world has gone mad. 6.8k Moonwatches (sapphire on bracelet) mad.

[Stuno1]

Hang on… Tudor wont/can’t refinish their titanium watches at service time?

[buddy13]

I’m only a sample size of one, but there are other examples on forums. Tudor flat refused to refinish mine, which was only scratched, not dinged. They said they can’t, which makes no sense, but they said it. I genuinely don’t get it because titanium is easy to refinish. But that and their process of swapping movements at service makes me a tiny bit suspicious as to why Tudor is relatively inexpensive. Which leads to another of your points…

“relatively inexpensive”. Ok, well they are certainly not cheap, but I guess they seem good value due to A. The movements, B. The brand and relative rarity / desirability. The Pelagos is more or less the same price as a Tag with a non in house movement (even if the Tudor movements are not *that* in house they are good specs with usually brilliant accuracy).

I love the Pelagos. Good movement, great finishing, titanium. Amazing lume, bezel. The bracelets! FXD being different. But…but. The refinishing problem always gives me pause. If it’s your only watch, or one of a couple, it’s a really weird problem that Tudor doesn’t seem to want to address. I’ve mentioned this before so I’ll stop as I’m obviously a stuck record :)

p.s. the bracelet never bothered me as much as with it’s parallel brushing your can sort that with a grey scotchbrite, but the case is a different proposition.

Wow so it is true that in fact official Tudor SC will not refinish cases & bracelets!

What is this thing with movement swaps? Do they just swap the movement at service time or have I misread your post?

[buddy13]

It’s 3.5k (so same as Breitlings superoceans, with lower specc’d movements) discounts now hard to get…but yes the world has gone mad. 6.8k Moonwatches (sapphire on bracelet) mad.

or 5 digits beaten up, 5 digit Submariner reference mad (see what I did there lol).

[notenoughwrists]

My Ti GS Diver can be refinished by Seiko - case and bracelet (apart from the GS symbol embedded in the clasp) - so not sure why Tudor say the cannot do any part of their Ti watches.

It cannot be a technical constraint.


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[redsox78]

Wow so it is true that in fact official Tudor SC will not refinish cases & bracelets!

What is this thing with movement swaps? Do they just swap the movement at service time or have I misread your post?

1. [I reply to previous reply] Yes they told me no titanium case refinishing, many other threads out there with the same thing.

2. Tudor swap movements when the watch is serviced; your own movement is put back in a pool that they service at a different time, and they fit a movement previously serviced into your watch. This has been discussed a few times. Speeds up servicing. A Hodinkee podcast (Grey NATO) said you could ask that your movement is not swapped, but it would take longer. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=747471&page=6

Interestingly this is now on Omega's website, which matches forums pointing out Tudor movements do not have serial numbers (apart from maybe the METAS ones?)...


I found that pic while looking for something else that I now can't find. I saw a brand, I think it was IWC, expressly say on their website they don't movement swap, but I can't find it now. The Omega thing is likely just covering their quartz, but it is the apprent justification that has been used by Tudor once people got digging.

[redsox78]

My Ti GS Diver can be refinished by Seiko - case and bracelet (apart from the GS symbol embedded in the clasp) - so not sure why Tudor say the cannot do any part of their Ti watches.

It cannot be a technical constraint.

I genuinely do not get it. At first I thought it was the complex way the case is finished, but that makes no sense. it's a lump of titanium, it gets finished as a case, why not refinish? I found a few posts saying that the service centres don't have the tools, so they'd have to be sent back to HQ to be done, but again that's a bit odd, everyone else re-finishes Ti. However maybe it's just profit?

Tudors are relatively inexpensive. Or maybe good value is a better wording? To reach that price point it would not be massively scandalous if some bits of the watches - primarily very well made titanium cases with good and complex finishing - can be made en masse in machines in the factory, but not so easily refinished due to the time it takes or the gear needed. Profit margins are the most important thing for Rolex-Tudor, so if it is cheaper to not offer the refinishing they will.

Whatever the reasoning there are many examples of people not being able to get their Pelagos refinished by RSC's. I was one of those people. Maybe it will change now there is both the FXD and 39 Pelagos.

[redsox78]

or 5 digits beaten up, 5 digit Submariner reference mad (see what I did there lol).

Yes, and very well done as well :)

[Onelasttime]

It's because Tudor wants you to buy a new watch.

Can't an indy finish it?

[buddy13]

My Ti GS Diver can be refinished by Seiko - case and bracelet (apart from the GS symbol embedded in the clasp) - so not sure why Tudor say the cannot do any part of their Ti watches.

It cannot be a technical constraint.


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Of course it can be. I can easily refinish it myself.

To add insult to injury, this is not even a case hardened case or has been surface treated in any way, like may Seikos are.

[buddy13]

2. Tudor swap movements when the watch is serviced; your own movement is put back in a pool that they service at a different time, and they fit a movement previously serviced into your watch. This has been discussed a few times. Speeds up servicing. A Hodinkee podcast (Grey NATO) said you could ask that your movement is not swapped, but it would take longer. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=747471&page=6

Interestingly this is now on Omega's website, which matches forums pointing out Tudor movements do not have serial numbers (apart from maybe the METAS ones?)...


I found that pic while looking for something else that I now can't find. I saw a brand, I think it was IWC, expressly say on their website they don't movement swap, but I can't find it now. The Omega thing is likely just covering their quartz, but it is the apprent justification that has been used by Tudor once people got digging.[/QUOTE]

I would not accept that. I bought my watch movement, case and bracelet as a unit and expect to keep it the same way.

I hope that when service time comes around (and I will extend as much as possible) I will be able to find an independent.

My problem is that I would not think that any independent would have access to parts, in case there are any worn out parts.

[redsox78]

It's because Tudor wants you to buy a new watch.

Can't an indy finish it?

You'd think they could. What's interesting about the Pelagos, unlike other titanium watches I have seen / had, is the way the brushing is circular. Most go horizontally down the lugs, but the Pelagos is a circular pattern, like on the ​back of recent Omega's (new speedy, X-33). But there is no reason an Indy could not do it. I still think it would be nice if Tudor could be bothered...

[redsox78]

would not accept that. I bought my watch movement, case and bracelet as a unit and expect to keep it the same way.

I hope that when service time comes around (and I will extend as much as possible) I will be able to find an independent.

My problem is that I would not think that any independent would have access to parts, in case there are any worn out parts.

Agreed. There was a discussion on here where someone used the analogy of a car engine, would you mind if when it went for service a new one was put in? Nope! But Tudor are not giving you a new one, they are giving you someone else's that as serviced, and I dunno, there is something more...specific and personal about a thing you have had strapped on your wrist.

[Stilgoe1972]

FYI Seiko don’t do refinishing on a Zaratsu polished MM300 either. I’m not sure if they do the rest of the range . Shame as the service is pretty reasonably priced compared to prestige luxury brands.

[buddy13]

FYI Seiko don’t do refinishing on a Zaratsu polished MM300 either. I’m not sure if they do the rest of the range . Shame as the service is pretty reasonably priced compared to prestige luxury brands.

That is understandable. Perhaps because it is also Diashield coated/treated.

If it's a surface treatment a few microns thick, you will ruin it by polishing.

[notenoughwrists]

They certainly do refinish the zaratsu GS, so must be as mentioned above. It says so in the new manual under servicing. To paraphrase:
GS can now be serviced in UK, but back to Japan if case refinish wanted



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[reddog]

Just a random post, with a few thoughts.

I've had my blue 42mm Pelagos for 4 years now. It's worn in anger at the gym, swimming, diving, working etc and it's Grade 2 Ti is a scratch magnet. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

It is really true that Tudor SC will not refinish it's case and bracelet during a service?

I really like the look of the Pelagos 39, but does the MT5400 movement look a bit 'off' only to me? It looks to have a 'large' base plate, which is not taken full advantage of, with the balance wheel, drive train etc being 'cramped' all in the middle? Anyone suggest why is this? The MT5612 in it's bigger brother looks much better proportioned and executed.

The bracelet taper, smaller proportion of mid links, no chapter ring and nicer (to me) 'a la Rolex Submariner' serrations on bezel and crown look much more appealing to me.

Last rant. Why do all reviewers claim that the Pelagos 39 comes in at a terrific price (4K Sterling)? I mean a few years ago you could buy a really nice Omega Seamaster 300m for 15% off retail and around 2,500 Euros. Has the world gone mad or only me?

I'll bet they make the movement so small with a wide base plate so that it can easily be used in smaller watches.

[jsong6688]

Bit of topic but for 2500 EUR I'd pick up SMP from the 2000-2008 era... much better proportion and dial. Not a huge fan of the new laser etched wave dial

[Dynam0humm]

You'd think they could. What's interesting about the Pelagos, unlike other titanium watches I have seen / had, is the way the brushing is circular. Most go horizontally down the lugs, but the Pelagos is a circular pattern, like on the ​back of recent Omega's (new speedy, X-33). But there is no reason an Indy could not do it. I still think it would be nice if Tudor could be bothered...

I think the main problem is the bevels on the lugs - you need a lapping machine to do those to a decent standard and very few independents have tools like that, and the ones that do may already be accredited and under instruction not to, just like how Seadweller's have to go back to Suisse. Asking an indy to refinish a Pelagos case by hand is a recipe for disaster imo.

As for why Tudor won't do it, I'm as baffled as the rest of you...

[Stuno1]

Posted a question about Tudor refinishing tI cases and one chap had already said they do but at a small cost on room of the service.

[redsox78]

I think the main problem is the bevels on the lugs - you need a lapping machine to do those to a decent standard and very few independents have tools like that, and the ones that do may already be accredited and under instruction not to, just like how Seadweller's have to go back to Suisse. Asking an indy to refinish a Pelagos case by hand is a recipe for disaster imo.

As for why Tudor won't do it, I'm as baffled as the rest of you...

yes! Those edges are both lovely…and scary. But you described it better than me.

- - - Updated - - -

Posted a question about Tudor refinishing tI cases and one chap had already said they do but at a small cost on room of the service.

Hope so, it’s necessary because I do think only they can do it right. I’ve not got a Pelagos now, but hopefully someone will test this out.

[redsox78]

Bit of topic but for 2500 EUR I'd pick up SMP from the 2000-2008 era... much better proportion and dial. Not a huge fan of the new laser etched wave dial

Agreed, don’t want to distract the thread, but the previous ceramic bezel Seamaster is a classic imho, and with a nice 39.5 option (which I had…and sold, because I’m a fool).

[sweets]

Tudors are COSC certified, so therefore it is mandatory that all movements have unique identifiers, numbers "engraved into the movement" according to the COSD site.
It may be true that they swap them out in a service, but they must all be uniquely identifiable.

D

I wear my Pelagos a lot (an FXD), have done since I got it in Feb, for all sorts of manual stuff, and it doesn't scratch. Mine has no marks at all. If you do scratch it a lot, you'd scratch anything that isn't hardened to a massive degree. Don't believe anyone that tells you different (to paraphrase the OP)

[Redwolf]

I’ve heard ink eraser can get out small scratches on TI? Anyone else tried this?

[Stuno1]

I’ve heard ink eraser can get out small scratches on TI? Anyone else tried this?

Seen people do this but it changes/ruins the brushing and ultimately looks a bit crap. Better off leaving it be.

[Middo]

My aerospace is well bruised, I like it though give us character

[redsox78]

Tudors are COSC certified, so therefore it is mandatory that all movements have unique identifiers, numbers "engraved into the movement" according to the COSD site.
It may be true that they swap them out in a service, but they must all be uniquely identifiable.

D

I wear my Pelagos a lot (an FXD), have done since I got it in Feb, for all sorts of manual stuff, andit doesn't scratch. Mine has no marks at all. If you do scratch it a lot, you'd scratch anything that isn't hardened to a massive degree. Don't believe anyone that tells you different (to paraphrase the OP)

If you have not scratched an FXD it is not because it does not scratch...it is because you have not scratched it. The Grade 2 Ti is not magic, it is softer to scratch than steel. Grade 5 is harder to scratch. This is just the nature of the material. Ti's benefits IMHO far outweigh the surface (relative) softness. It also tends to hide scratches quite well.

[redsox78]

Seen people do this but it changes/ruins the brushing and ultimately looks a bit crap. Better off leaving it be.

Yeah, amateur attempts to refinish titanium always seem to look fine, until you change the light and you can see the uneven brushing. Sorting clasps or bracelets with a gray scotchbrite pad works well with a steady hand.

[Stuno1]

Yeah, amateur attempts to refinish titanium always seem to look fine, until you change the light and you can see the uneven brushing. Sorting clasps or bracelets with a gray scotchbrite pad works well with a steady hand.

Agree and experimented with this too. Lots of masking is needed but again doesn’t ever look great once you know you have done it. I played too much with polishing and brushing etc and ultimately came to the conclusion just to leave it alone until service time.

[Redwolf]

Agree and experimented with this too. Lots of masking is needed but again doesn’t ever look great once you know you have done it. I played too much with polishing and brushing etc and ultimately came to the conclusion just to leave it alone until service time.

Ok so the question becomes, what reliable independent can refinish a TI case and watch?

[Stuno1]

Ok so the question becomes, what reliable independent can refinish a TI case and watch?

I will just wait until service time and let Tudor do it.

[Boss13]

Tangent: interesting to learn Tudor may swap movements, is that the same with Rolex?

[Redwolf]

I will just wait until service time and let Tudor do it.

Tudor won’t do it though, isn’t that the premise of this post?

[Stuno1]

Tudor won’t do it though, isn’t that the premise of this post?

I posted earlier on that on the Tudor FB group people have had it done by Tudor at a small additional cost come service time.

[Wandril]

If you have not scratched an FXD it is not because it does not scratch...it is because you have not scratched it. The Grade 2 Ti is not magic, it is softer to scratch than steel. Grade 5 is harder to scratch. This is just the nature of the material. Ti's benefits IMHO far outweigh the surface (relative) softness. It also tends to hide scratches quite well.

I might be mistaken here but I am pretty sure I have read somewhere the pelagos fxd and 42mm were in grade 5 Ti vs grade 2 for the new 39.
Is it complete rubbish and are they all grade 2 then?

[Gareth-W]

I might be mistaken here but I am pretty sure I have read somewhere the pelagos fxd and 42mm were in grade 5 Ti vs grade 2 for the new 39.
Is it complete rubbish and are they all grade 2 then?

Yes.

[sweets]

If you have not scratched an FXD it is not because it does not scratch...it is because you have not scratched it. The Grade 2 Ti is not magic, it is softer to scratch than steel. Grade 5 is harder to scratch. This is just the nature of the material. Ti's benefits IMHO far outweigh the surface (relative) softness. It also tends to hide scratches quite well.

Agreed, but its properties are very similar to steel. I never suggested it was magic. To suggest it is markedly easier to scratch than steel is a mistake. It is not relatively soft, it is not quite as hard (as 316, it is actually harder than 304). Ti 140, 304SS 129 and 316L 155 Vickers.

[buddy13]

Tudors are COSC certified, so therefore it is mandatory that all movements have unique identifiers, numbers "engraved into the movement" according to the COSD site.
It may be true that they swap them out in a service, but they must all be uniquely identifiable.

D

I wear my Pelagos a lot (an FXD), have done since I got it in Feb, for all sorts of manual stuff, and it doesn't scratch. Mine has no marks at all. If you do scratch it a lot, you'd scratch anything that isn't hardened to a massive degree. Don't believe anyone that tells you different (to paraphrase the OP)

You must handle it with white gloves then.

It is certainly much less scratch resistant than my other SS watches and bears the marks to show this. This is also technically well proven in all Engineering Literature. Grade 2 Ti is softer than any St Steel grade used in dive watches such as 316L or 904.

[buddy13]

I am still in awe at this movement swapping agenda Tudor has got on.

It seems like a very poor attempt at saving some Euros (to them) to me.

Until I get confirmation that I can indeed ask Tudor to not replace the movement, I would not buy another Tudor. I'd much rather get a Sinn U50 over the Pelagos 39 if this was the case.

[sweets]

You must handle it with white gloves then.

It is certainly much less scratch resistant than my other SS watches and bears the marks to show this. This is also technically well proven in all Engineering Literature. Grade 2 Ti is softer than any St Steel grade used in dive watches such as 316L or 904.

Look at my last post, the Vickers hardness (closest property to scratching) isn't that different. Really.

[RobDad]

I am still in awe at this movement swapping agenda Tudor has got on.

It seems like a very poor attempt at saving some Euros (to them) to me.

Until I get confirmation that I can indeed ask Tudor to not replace the movement, I would not buy another Tudor. I'd much rather get a Sinn U50 over the Pelagos 39 if this was the case.

It’s certainly a bit odd. My BB58 has an incredibly accurate movement - I’ve had it about 3 months now and I’ve not had to unscrew the crown once, it’s spot on! Let’s say I leave it for 10 years until I get it serviced, technically the movement might be replaced with a 5 year old movement replacing my 10 year old one?!? - which is technically a good thing!


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[buddy13]

Look at my last post, the Vickers hardness (closest property to scratching) isn't that different. Really.

It is still less.

Also, it has to do with the oxide layer that forms on the metal in contact with ambient oxygen (air). The Chromium oxide layer which forms on stainless steel has the exact same colour as the base metal, so any small scratches to this layer will tend to be 'invisible' to our eye.

The Titanium Dioxide layer, which forms between Titanium and oxygen in air, is lighter in colour than the base metal, so any small scratches to the same oxide layer tend to not be invisible, since our eyes see a different colour, even if they cannot pick up the scratch mechanically.

I hope it makes sense, the way I have explained it.