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Thread: WAS: Artemis 1 due to launch today (Saturday 3rd September at 19:17 BST UK time)

  1. #51
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Sad.

    Look like an official scrub may be announced soon according to comments by NASASpaceflight channel. They can't fix the LH leak in time.

  2. #52
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    And it's been officially scrubbed for today.


    ** Update **

    Blog post:

    https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/...empt-scrubbed/
    Artemis I Launch Attempt Scrubbed

    Rachel Kraft
    Posted on September 3, 2022 11:22 am

    The launch director waived off today’s Artemis I launch attempt at approximately 11:17 a.m. EDT. Teams encountered a liquid hydrogen leak while loading the propellant into the core stage of the Space Launch System rocket. Multiple troubleshooting efforts to address the area of the leak by reseating a seal in the quick disconnect where liquid hydrogen is fed into the rocket did not fix the issue. Engineers are continuing to gather additional data.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 3rd September 2022 at 16:25.

  3. #53
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    Scrubbed again. Next try Monday

  4. #54
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Sounds like it will need to be moved back to the garage for checking.

  5. #55
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Wiki link: "...due to a hydrogen leak on the quick-disconnect connnection of the tail service mast umbilical, the countdown could not reach the planned T-9.3 seconds mark and was stopped automatically at T-29 seconds..."


    And when was that? June 20 and after it "NASA mission managers soon determined they had completed almost all planned test objectives and declared the pre-launch wet dress rehearsal campaign complete." It now seems like that was a premature decision.


    I have to say that I was watching La Vuelta a Espańa and round 6 of the FIM JuniorGP™ World Championship at the time today's scrub was announced.
    Last edited by PickleB; 3rd September 2022 at 17:14.

  6. #56
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    I wonder how confident the astronauts who are booked to go on Artemis II are feeling!? 😬


    Maybe they need to ask some of the Space X techs for some help. I’m a space launch mega fan but a leak on the H filler that they couldn’t sort in a few hours does sound rather amateur.

    And while congress is watching and are desperate to pull the plug and divert the billions of $$ to other areas…..this third scrub isn’t good.

  7. #57
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I wonder how confident the astronauts who are booked to go on Artemis II are feeling!? 
    To be honest, about the same as before today I would have thought. Stuff like this is why there are tests and, so far, it's really only been a minor issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    a leak on the H filler that they couldn’t sort in a few hours does sound rather amateur.
    Whilst one would certainly have hoped they could sort it out, nothing is simple when dealing with liquid hydrogen. Hydrogen seems like such a good fuel but cryogenic LH is absolute hell to handle, as I understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    And while congress is watching and are desperate to pull the plug and divert the billions of $$ to other areas…..this third scrub isn’t good.
    Does Congress want to kill it, or does Congress want it to continue at any cost for pork barrelism? I've not been following the politics closely enough.

  8. #58
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    You’d think after 60 years of playing with LH and space rockets, they’d have the fuelling nozzles sorted. It’s rather embarrassing for NASA.

    Yes, from a political POV, I think a lot of Americans would prefer to see these billions of dollars spent on helping folk with medicare or filling in potholes, than sending rockets into space.

    I’m a huge fan of all things space and fully appreciate the complexities of sending stuff into orbit and beyond, I’m just gutted they’ve had to scrub three attempts for trivial technical reasons as it doesn’t help their longer term finding goals.

    Fingers firmly crossed for the next launch window.

    I can’t wait to see humans on the moon again. So excited to see that.

  9. #59
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I’m just gutted they’ve had to scrub three attempts
    'Just' two attempts for Artemis 1. Next launch attempt will be the third try.

  10. #60
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    Yes, you’re right. My bad. 2nd attempt.

    Feels like the 3rd for some reason.

    Hopefully the third attempt will be a success.

  11. #61
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Hopefully the third attempt will be a success.
    I really hope so!

  12. #62
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    There is no rush and I am pretty sure any perimeters outside of 100% perfect will mean a scrub.
    Better to delay than have egg of your face because it went up like a Roman candle.

  13. #63
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    There's a news conference ongoing right now here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNpR...b_channel=NASA



    Some brief notes from the conference:-

    Issue is (probably) a quick disconnect seal.
    Not sure exactly what they need to do to fix it yet.
    Going to examine it in more detail.
    How large is the leak? They were seeing two or three times the flammability risk 4% H2 concentration in the area of the connection.
    Nature of what needs to be replaced? Maybe need to replace the hardware but they don't know yet. Needs direct eyes on investigation.
    Their experience of component testing tells them that a leak of this magnitude is typically resolved through a replacement of the seal, but they need to investigate first.

    Oh dear, if I infer correctly from what they are now saying, there may have been an accidental over-pressure event (due to an incorrect command) at the 'interface' that was leaking. They are looking into whether or not that might have caused the problem.

    They've tested the quick disconnect, it's worked "a couple of times" (i.e. 100%) in testing, but it didn't work today.

    The inadvertent command that caused an over-pressurisation event was part of a manual sequence, could be that it wasn't automated caused it, all subject to investigation.

    It is a non-metallic seal that is in question.

    Artemis 2 is still planned for 2024. No change due to this.

    Costs? They aren't sure. Lots of tankers though for topups when they de-tank. "The cost of two scrubs is a lot less than the cost of failure". :-)

    Cubesats (apparently there are some cubesats hitching a ride) might have some battery charging issues but it's not a big deal at the moment.

    They claim not to be feeling any external pressure on this!

    If they need to cryoload the interface they'd need to get to fast fill the tank no more than 5% full, so not too long if they needed to do that. Difficult to tell how long they could turn for a launch though.

    They can turn around between 48-72 hours simply depending on commodity (i.e. gases) re-supply.

    If they have to do engineering work then obviously that will extend things.

    22:30 UK time: Conference ends.




    Mark's summary:-
    It pretty much (predictably) boils down to: "We need to investigate". However, two things that stood out for me were (a) the erroneous manual command that, if I understand correctly, resulted in an over-pressure at the interface that had problems and (b) based upon their experience with previous testing, a leak of this magnitude is typically caused by a faulty seal. In other words, it's very, very early days but it looks like it may be a damaged seal. However, they won't leap to conclusions without carrying out the necessary investigations to know for sure.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 3rd September 2022 at 22:34.

  14. #64
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    September 3, 2022 6:26 pm: "...mission managers met and decided they will forego additional launch attempts in early September. Over the next several days, teams will establish access to the area of the leak at Launch Pad 39B, and in parallel conduct a schedule assessment to provide additional data that will inform a decision on whether to perform work to replace a seal either at the pad, where it can be tested under cryogenic conditions, or inside the Vehicle Assembly Building..."

  15. #65
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    I'll be out at my son's place on the space coast in just over a week so I might see the launch from his back yard again!

    Here's an earlier launch over morning coffee.

    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  16. #66
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I'll be out at my son's place on the space coast in just over a week so I might see the launch from his back yard again!

    Here's an earlier launch over morning coffee.
    That is lovely. :-)

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    September 3, 2022 6:26 pm: "...mission managers met and decided they will forego additional launch attempts in early September. Over the next several days, teams will establish access to the area of the leak at Launch Pad 39B, and in parallel conduct a schedule assessment to provide additional data that will inform a decision on whether to perform work to replace a seal either at the pad, where it can be tested under cryogenic conditions, or inside the Vehicle Assembly Building..."
    Based on what I read (and posted before) they have to go back to the VAB anyway due to the FTS now needing to be replaced.

  18. #68
    Looks like they've got the fuelling situation under control:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62982986

  19. #69
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jools View Post
    Looks like they've got the fuelling situation under control:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62982986
    If it's a go for Tu 27 Sep then the launch window is:

    15:37-16:47 UT, 16:37-17:47 BST, 11:37-12:47 EDT


    The next one is on Su 02 Oct.

  20. #70
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    Sounds like the FTS I mentioned before (and weather) is now the factor that will determine launch.

  21. #71
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    If it's a go for Tu 27 Sep then the launch window is:
    15:37-16:47 UT, 16:37-17:47 BST, 11:37-12:47 EDT


    The next one is on Su 02 Oct.

    I'm on the space coast now so I hope to see the launch.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I'm on the space coast now so I hope to see the launch.
    Good timing!

  23. #73
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Sounds like the FTS I mentioned before (and weather) is now the factor that will determine launch.
    They are talking about a hurricane on Wednesday!
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  24. #74
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Sounds like it will need to be moved back to the garage for checking.
    Link:

    ...During a Sept. 23 teleconference, NASA announced an extension for the flight termination system battery certification, which expired after 25 days on Sept. 6. Now the Space Force’s Eastern Range has granted a waiver to allow the rocket to launch as late as Oct. 2 before needing to be returned to the Vehicle Assembly building to recertify the batteries...


    Hmmm...fingers crossed.

  25. #75
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    They are talking about a hurricane on Wednesday!
    Blog:

    ...Managers met Sunday evening to review the latest information on the storm from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the U.S. Space Force, and the National Hurricane Center and decided to meet again Monday to allow for additional data gathering overnight before making the decision on roll back...

    When I looked at www.hurricanes.gov half an hour ago Ian was a storm. Now it's a hurricane.

  26. #76
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Back to the VAB for shelter it is...link.

    They've been streaming for many hours...so you can watch the rollback live.
    Last edited by PickleB; 26th September 2022 at 17:40.

  27. #77

  28. #78
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Maybe a launch at midday today, I'll keep my eyes opened.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  29. #79
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Maybe a launch at midday today, I'll keep my eyes opened.
    NASA Artemis blog:

    ...As teams complete post-storm recovery operations, NASA has determined it will focus Artemis I launch planning efforts on the launch period that opens Nov. 12 and closes Nov. 27. Over the coming days, managers will assess the scope of work to perform while in the VAB and identify a specific date for the next launch attempt. Focusing efforts on the November launch period allows time for employees at Kennedy to address the needs of their families and homes after the storm and for teams to identify additional checkouts needed before returning to the pad for launch...

  30. #80
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    NASA Artemis blog:
    ...As teams complete post-storm recovery operations, NASA has determined it will focus Artemis I launch planning efforts on the launch period that opens Nov. 12 and closes Nov. 27. Over the coming days, managers will assess the scope of work to perform while in the VAB and identify a specific date for the next launch attempt. Focusing efforts on the November launch period allows time for employees at Kennedy to address the needs of their families and homes after the storm and for teams to identify additional checkouts needed before returning to the pad for launch...
    I'll be home again by then but my daughter in law gave me a bronze Artemis medal.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  31. #81
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Looks like November now but my daughter in law took some snaps from work at KSC.









    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  32. #82
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    ^^^ Excellent pics. Thank you!

  33. #83
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    As not much seems to be happening on the Artemis front for a while I'll post up the Artemis medal my daughter in law was given from work and passed on to me.






    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  34. #84
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    As not much seems to be happening on the Artemis front for a while I'll post up the Artemis medal my daughter in law was given from work and passed on to me.
    That's rather nice. I nice memento of working on a project.

  35. #85
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    Coooool token!


    When is this thing going to go?

    Such a shame it missed the first windows.

  36. #86
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Coooool token!


    When is this thing going to go?

    Such a shame it missed the first windows.
    The dates for the next attempt have been announced...link.

  37. #87
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Much as I want this to succeed, does anyone know of any p2p markets or online bookies taking bets on whether or not it will RUD or otherwise fail at any point on its journey? I had a look at Betfair in the special bets sections but there's nothing there about NASA/SLS.

    ( As an aside, I see the crowd opinion suggests that Henry Cavill is most likely to be the next 007. He's definitely still a value bet if you value the wisdom of crowds. And Ukraine is 2/1 to win Eurovision which seems like a value bet as well ).
    Last edited by markrlondon; 16th October 2022 at 18:34.

  38. #88
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  39. #89
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    The latest news is that Artemis 1 is definitely (hopefully) due to launch on 14 November at 05:07 UTC.

    It will begin rollout from the VAB to LC-39B tomorrow, 4th November.

    For confirmation, the launch will be 5:07am UK time.

    Let's hope it goes well this time.

    I'll probably post a new thread for the launch nearer to the time.





    **correction **
    Corrected time as per #90 and #91.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 4th November 2022 at 07:17. Reason: Corrected

  40. #90
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    The latest news is that Artemis 1 is definitely (hopefully) due to launch on 14 November at 04:07 UTC.

    It will begin rollout from the VAB to LC-39B tomorrow, 4th November.

    For confirmation, the launch will be 4:07am UK time.

    Let's hope it goes well this time.

    I'll probably post a new thread for the launch nearer to the time.
    Can you do a check please? I see several sites giving at 12:07 am EST and that makes it 05:07 UT / GMT. There is one site that says 12:07 EDT just to confuse the issue.

    They all agree that the launch window is 69 minutes long.

  41. #91
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Can you do a check please? I see several sites giving at 12:07 am EST and that makes it 05:07 UT / GMT. There is one site that says 12:07 EDT just to confuse the issue.

    They all agree that the launch window is 69 minutes long.
    I took the time from the EarthSky blog at https://earthsky.org/space/artemis1-our-return-to-moon/ which is usually quite reliable. I didn't think to check the launch time at NASA. The EarthSky blog states:
    Artemis 1 is due to go up from Kennedy Space Center in Florida – without human passengers this time – at 12:07 a.m. ET (4:07 UTC) on November 14, 2022
    It looks like EarthSky forgot that ET changes from EDT (4 hours behind UTC) to EST (5 hours behind UTC) on 6th November (i.e. between now and the launch date)!

    So yes, it would seem that the correct time will be 14 November 00:07 EST or 05:07 UTC. So 5:07am local UK time.

    I've now confirmed 00:07 EST via NASA's blog at https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/...-launch-pad-2/.

    I should have been more careful. Thanks for the correction.

  42. #92
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. Until yesterday I had the time 12 hours adrift as I often mix up 12 am (00h00) with 12h00. When will the Americans learn to cope with the 24 hour clock?

  43. #93
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Looks like November now but my daughter in law took some snaps from work at KSC.



    I know why they do it, but am I alone in wishing they could do something instead of the rusty orange colour? It would look sleek instead of a bit knackered!
    So clever my foot fell off.

  44. #94
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I took the time from the EarthSky blog at https://earthsky.org/space/artemis1-our-return-to-moon/ which is usually quite reliable. I didn't think to check the launch time at NASA.
    [...]
    It looks like EarthSky forgot that ET changes from EDT (4 hours behind UTC) to EST (5 hours behind UTC) on 6th November (i.e. between now and the launch date)!
    I let them know about the error and they've corrected it now.

  45. #95
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Launched delayed yet again. Due to Tropical Storm Nicole (soon likely to become a hurricane).

    Artemis 1 will actually be left out and will have to weather the storm. Too late to return it to the VAB now.

    New launch date: 16 November.

    This assumes there is no damage, of course. 19 November is the next opportunity after 16th.

    NASA tweet: https://twitter.com/nasa/status/1590116388403785729

    NASA blog: https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/...targets-launch

    From the blog:
    [...] the safest option for the launch hardware was to keep the Space Launch System (SLS) rocket and Orion spacecraft secured at the pad.

    The SLS rocket is designed to withstand 85 mph (74.4 knot) winds at the 60-foot level with structural margin. Current forecasts predict the greatest risks at the pad are high winds that are not expected to exceed the SLS design. The rocket is designed to withstand heavy rains at the launch pad and the spacecraft hatches have been secured to prevent water intrusion.

    In preparation for the storm, teams have powered down the Orion spacecraft, SLS core stage, interim cryogenic propulsion stage, and boosters. Engineers have also installed a hard cover over the launch abort system window, retracted and secured the crew access arm on the mobile launcher and configured the settings for the environmental control system on the spacecraft and rocket elements. Teams also are securing nearby hardware and performing walkdowns for potential debris in the area.

    Teams are poised to resume work as soon as weather and Kennedy center status allows. Once back on-site, technicians will perform walkdowns and inspections at the pad to assess the status of the rocket and spacecraft as soon as practicable.

    A launch during a two-hour window that opens at 1:04 a.m. EST on Nov. 16 would result in a splashdown on Friday, Dec. 11. If needed, NASA has a back-up launch opportunity on Saturday, Nov. 19, and will coordinate with the U.S. Space Force for additional launch opportunities.
    (Bold added by me)
    Last edited by markrlondon; 10th November 2022 at 16:20.

  46. #96
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Launched delayed yet again. Due to Tropical Storm Nicole (soon likely to become a hurricane).

    Artemis 1 will actually be left out and will have to weather the storm. Too late to return it to the VAB now.

    New launch date: 16 November.

    This assumes there is no damage, of course. 19 November is the next opportunity after 14th.

    NASA tweet: https://twitter.com/nasa/status/1590116388403785729

    NASA blog: https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/...targets-launch

    From the blog:
    (Bold added by me)
    60 mph winds across Orlando airport this morning.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  47. #97
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Latest new is that Hurricane Nicole has passed, all seems relatively well, and launch is planned for 16 November at 01:04 EST (with a 2 hour window). This is 06:04 UTC, 06:04am UK time.

    Rather than adding yet more to this thread I'll create a new thread. Optimistic aren't I.

    I'll update this message when I've created the new thread.

    New thread: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-04am-UK-time)
    Last edited by markrlondon; 13th November 2022 at 21:17.

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