Buying and owning an air cooled Porsche 911

[JPE]

Besides watches cars are my passion... especially classic cars. A lot of Porsche fans in the watch community who love Porsches so I thought this could interest you. I wrote this after 7 months of ownership.

Article: Buying and owning an air cooled Porsche 911

I hope you find it interesting.

[Hood]

Nice write up
964 was my first 911
Total bone shaker



Bought from OPC in 1997 at £27K
Sold in 2000 for £17K

[JPE]

What a beauty. I'm sure you'd like to have a time machine, go back to 2000 and cancel the sale. :D

[eagletower]

Enjoyed read that!

Here’s mine , not air cooled. I bought it when it was 3 years old , 7 years ago. Still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. 993 is my fave 911 too but , I bought a 991 for the modern day convenience. .

[JPE]

Thanks.

991 is amazing machine. And much faster too.

PS: I should have mentioned in the article that UK has easily the lowest 964/993 prices in the world. Too bad you have the steering wheel on the wrong side. :D

[Thewatchbloke]

A good read, it looks like your car is in first class original condition - congratulations! I'd love an early (sixties) air cooled 2.0 ltr but they've got away from me price wise now.

With that in mind I run a CS2 997 but don't put the miles on it that I should, in fact I did more miles on my rowing machine last year than I did in the 911!

[adigra]

Really enjoyed that, thanks!

It's very interesting to me as the 993 sits halfway between my two cars, a 930 and a 997.1 Turbo, but I've never actually even sat in one. Due to the G series cars being in production so long largely unchanged, Porsche was far behind and the 964 and even the 993 were archaic even before they came out in comparison to the 300zx, NSX, Supra, etc., which were all moving the game on significantly throughout the 90's. 996 really couldn't have come fast enough for them. But what fabulous machines the aircooled cars are! Far more exciting and satisfying than anything else I've ever tried.

[JPE]

Really enjoyed that, thanks!

It's very interesting to me as the 993 sits halfway between my two cars, a 930 and a 997.1 Turbo, but I've never actually even sat in one. Due to the G series cars being in production so long largely unchanged, Porsche was far behind and the 964 and even the 993 were archaic even before they came out in comparison to the 300zx, NSX, Supra, etc., which were all moving the game on significantly throughout the 90's. 996 really couldn't have come fast enough for them. But what fabulous machines the aircooled cars are! Far more exciting and satisfying than anything else I've ever tried.

It is true. 964 and 993 were very old even when they came out. Everything is still based on 60s/70s foundation. When 964 came out, Porsche said 80% was new. They said the same when 993 came out.

But when you go to a 70s base Carrera and then jump to a 993 you feel like "hmmm... are you sure this was all new Porsche"? Sure there are differences and some minor modernizations but fundamentally it IS the same car.

996 and newer are great cars but it's not the same car anymore. It was the new era.

Great video on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7TaDD27vFA

Old base 911's aren't that fast by today's standards but they FEEL fast. And they're very raw, brutal cars. Like I said in the article, not everything is measured by numbers.

[JPE]

A good read, it looks like your car is in first class original condition - congratulations! I'd love an early (sixties) air cooled 2.0 ltr but they've got away from me price wise now.

With that in mind I run a CS2 997 but don't put the miles on it that I should, in fact I did more miles on my rowing machine last year than I did in the 911!

997 is a great car and there's a good chance that I might buy one for a daily driver in the future. I really still like 997 and 991 design. 992 looks... not that much. The rear doesn't have much resemblance to the original 911 anymore.

But I never understood why they got rid of the rear reflector on new 911's. Sure the 4S models still have it but for me it was the quintessential Porsche look.

[Samlack99]

...in fact I did more miles on my rowing machine last year than I did in the 911!

That made me chuckle.

And thanks OP for the interesting article.

I'd love a 911...

...Some day =)

[JPE]

That made me chuckle.

And thanks OP for the interesting article.

I'd love a 911...

...Some day =)

You're welcome. Glad you liked it.

Next I'm writing another article about 964 and 993 tiptronic models which are often overlooked by the enthusiasts. Those version can be found MUCH cheaper and I think it could make interesting content.

[The Doc]

Really good writeup.

I had a 3.8ltr 997 for 4 years with a manual transmission and a sports exhaust.
40,000 miles of fun, every day, through the Lake District with winter tyres from Nov to March. It was incredible.

I sold it for 70% of what initially paid. I thought I'd done well.

And the same car now is worth 150% of what I initially paid!

I will buy another 911, but it will be manual and old. These are the Porsches I want.

[Kairos]

Summer of 1976 I left school at 16 with the minimum qualifications I needed to get my place as a navigation cadet. I joined my first ship in the September and did a 2 year trip, without leave. I came back with 18 months salary burning a hole in my pocket. I had 2 terms at the school of maritime studies before going back to sea on my next ship. Before I left my brother put me on to a scheme whereby I paid for most of the the car up front and collected it a year later from Stuttgart. This was a tax dodge, because cars 12 months old didn't have to pay import tax, and so it made the price quite a bit cheaper, technically the car was 12 months old when I collected it, but it was a brand new 1979 SC Targa, with black bumper bellows and roll bar and the normal 3.0 engine, in metallic ice blue (Minerva) and black interior. I hated it. I had it just over 3 months and got rid because the rear just wanted to keep seeing what the front was doing as soon as a cloud appeared on the horizon! I replaced it with a TVR 3000 Taimar, which I found to be a much better drive, but was nowhere near as sophisticated, but it held the road superbly and sounded fabulous, so fabulous that you couldn't hear the stereo even if it was at full blast! Wind noise, tyre noise and the rumble of the exhaust all combined to drown out any kind of conversation or music... I loved it. I wish I had still got that SC targa now though, I could probably retire!

[paneristi372]

Fantastic write up. Really enjoyed reading that.

I have always wanted a Porsche since driving my brothers 996 Turbo, my ultimate preference was a 964. About 8 years ago decided it was now or never for Porsche ownership and sadly the 964's were out of my grasp so a 996 C4S fitted the bill perfectly. Loved driving it, winter and summer for 6 years. Regretfully sold it for a family car but when the time comes a 964 or 993 will definitely be back on the cards. I love the sound of a flat 6 especially through PSE!!!

[JPE]

Fantastic write up. Really enjoyed reading that.

I have always wanted a Porsche since driving my brothers 996 Turbo, my ultimate preference was a 964. About 8 years ago decided it was now or never for Porsche ownership and sadly the 964's were out of my grasp so a 996 C4S fitted the bill perfectly. Loved driving it, winter and summer for 6 years. Regretfully sold it for a family car but when the time comes a 964 or 993 will definitely be back on the cards. I love the sound of a flat 6 especially through PSE!!!

For me it was either 964 or 993, whichever good example came first.

They drive pretty much the same, 993 being a little bit more sophisticated and capable.

The 964 front looks great but the 993 fat ass is amazing.

But you can't go wrong either way.

Cheers.

[JPE]

Summer of 1976 I left school at 16 with the minimum qualifications I needed to get my place as a navigation cadet. I joined my first ship in the September and did a 2 year trip, without leave. I came back with 18 months salary burning a hole in my pocket. I had 2 terms at the school of maritime studies before going back to sea on my next ship. Before I left my brother put me on to a scheme whereby I paid for most of the the car up front and collected it a year later from Stuttgart. This was a tax dodge, because cars 12 months old didn't have to pay import tax, and so it made the price quite a bit cheaper, technically the car was 12 months old when I collected it, but it was a brand new 1979 SC Targa, with black bumper bellows and roll bar and the normal 3.0 engine, in metallic ice blue (Minerva) and black interior. I hated it. I had it just over 3 months and got rid because the rear just wanted to keep seeing what the front was doing as soon as a cloud appeared on the horizon! I replaced it with a TVR 3000 Taimar, which I found to be a much better drive, but was nowhere near as sophisticated, but it held the road superbly and sounded fabulous, so fabulous that you couldn't hear the stereo even if it was at full blast! Wind noise, tyre noise and the rumble of the exhaust all combined to drown out any kind of conversation or music... I loved it. I wish I had still got that SC targa now though, I could probably retire!

I've never seen a TVR in the flesh. I've read a lot about them. Quite amazing cars. I think they're not selling them a lot outside the UK and the production numbers are very low.

I'd love to drive one some day.

[adigra]

For me it was either 964 or 993, whichever good example came first.

They drive pretty much the same, 993 being a little bit more sophisticated and capable.

The 964 front looks great but the 993 fat ass is amazing.

But you can't go wrong either way.

Cheers.

It's fascinating how 964 popularity changed over the last 10 years. It was a bit of a forgotten car (ignoring the Turbo and the RS) too modern for some and overshadowed by the 993 for others. In recent years it's quickly becoming the most popular exactly because of those reasons.

[JPE]

It's fascinating how 964 popularity changed over the last 10 years. It was a bit of a forgotten car (ignoring the Turbo and the RS) too modern for some and overshadowed by the 993 for others. In recent years it's quickly becoming the most popular exactly because of those reasons.

Yes they were kind of forgotten for a long time. It was the cheapest air cooled. Now they're very desirable. Strange how that changed and why. I guess nobody can explain.

I might another air cooled eventually too and 964 is a good candidate. On the other hand I'd love to have a 80's model because 964 and 993 are perhaps a little bit too similar.

Let's see.

[DanielBB]

Thanks for sharing. I have no idea about anything Porsche but I enjoyed reading this, you write well.

[tertius]

Nice, always good to read about 993s, they are brilliant cars.

I had a non-vario 993 in midnight blue that I foolishly sold about 12 years ago. Mine was a "standard" LHD Carrera: remapped to about 305 bhp; 3-spoke steering wheel; two sets of wheels; LSD; bolt in rear cage; buckets and harnesses; KW v3 suspension; extra brake cooling; etc. ... used to do loads of track days in that car. If you are tall well worth considering a LHD car, the 993 and earlier generation cars were built as LHD shells and then "converted" to RHD, which resulted in the RH-side footwell being noticeably shorter than the LH-side. 996 and later cars were designed for RHD from the outset and so are mirrors left to right.

It did have an ability to create extraordinary bills though ... the engine rebuild being one, followed not long after by a gearbox rebuild!

I used to write an occasional column in Total 911 about life with my 993.

Don't seem to have many later pictures, but here's one, with the 18 inch (road) wheels:



PS I noticed a small error/typo in your article, you mention a C2S, but the widebody 2WD 993 gen car was called a Carrera S without the 2.

[westy]

Thanks to this thread I did an auto trader search.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...02208098622534

I'm only about £50k short...

[JPE]

Nice, always good to read about 993s, they are brilliant cars.

I had a non-vario 993 in midnight blue that I foolishly sold about 12 years ago. Mine was a "standard" LHD Carrera: remapped to about 305 bhp; 3-spoke steering wheel; two sets of wheels; LSD; bolt in rear cage; buckets and harnesses; KW v3 suspension; extra brake cooling; etc. ... used to do loads of track days in that car. If you are tall well worth considering a LHD car, the 993 and earlier generation cars were built as LHD shells and then "converted" to RHD, which resulted in the RH-side footwell being noticeably shorter than the LH-side. 996 and later cars were designed for RHD from the outset and so are mirrors left to right.

It did have an ability to create extraordinary bills though ... the engine rebuild being one, followed not long after by a gearbox rebuild!

I used to write an occasional column in Total 911 about life with my 993.

Don't seem to have many later pictures, but here's one, with the 18 inch (road) wheels:



PS I noticed a small error/typo in your article, you mention a C2S, but the widebody 2WD 993 gen car was called a Carrera S without the 2.

Thanks. Interesting. Car was looking mint. Midnight blue has the same violet tint as the iris blue but it's more like "black violet" whereas iris is "blue violet". Great colors but tough to keep clean.

PS: True. It's just S. I will fix the typo.

[JPE]

Thanks to this thread I did an auto trader search.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...02208098622534

I'm only about £50k short...

And UK has the lowest Porsche prices in the world. I mean really.

I've followed the prices for the last 2 years and you have really amazing prices sometimes. Too bad your steering wheel is on the right side (and we have it on the wrong side hahaha).

[andy tims]

My old Club Sport. # 52 of 53 UK cars. Absolutely loved it.





If I'd had a crystal ball, I'd not have sold it.

[adigra]

My old Club Sport. # 52 of 53 UK cars. Absolutely loved it.

That looks epic.

Here's my aircooled. It's an '89 930, so a transitional car as it got the G50 5 speed, plus some 964 shell updates, so it uses a 964 windscreen. My ultimate dream car.

[JPE]

My old Club Sport. # 52 of 53 UK cars. Absolutely loved it.





If I'd had a crystal ball, I'd not have sold it.

Oh man... that's a beauty. Amazing.

That'd probably be worth quite a lot these days.

[andy tims]

Oh man... that's a beauty. Amazing.

That'd probably be worth quite a lot these days.

£200k perhaps? It was a 4 owner car with only 40k ish miles when I sold it.

[JPE]

That looks epic.

Here's my aircooled. It's an '89 930, so a transitional car as it got the G50 5 speed, plus some 964 shell updates, so it uses a 964 windscreen. My ultimate dream car.

Amazing.

If I was a rich man it would be ideal to own one 70/80's impact bumber car, a 964 and a 993.

Turbos are out of my reach though... but standard Carreras would be just fine.

[andy tims]

Lovely car.

[weedram]

Excellent article OP, really enjoyed that.

Love a 993.

The advert you included with the line "Don't feel selfish. In a few decades you can pass it on to your children" particularly resonates with me.

I have two adult children currently arguing about which of them is going to inherit this when I go:



1986 3.2 Carrera owned by me since August 2000. This pic taken on a road trip to Skye in June last year.

[JPE]

Excellent article OP, really enjoyed that.

Love a 993.

The advert you included with the line "Don't feel selfish. In a few decades you can pass it on to your children" particularly resonates with me.

I have two adult children currently arguing about which of them is going to inherit this when I go:



1986 3.2 Carrera owned by me since August 2000. This pic taken on a road trip to Skye in June last year.

Thank you. Appreciated.

As I meantioned in the article, the Guards Red 80's car with the whale tail is the most iconic look. That defines Porsche in people's minds. And you have exactly that.

[JPE]

PS: Are you aware of Gunther Werks 993 restomods? Check this out. Pretty sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgK8NlwBLDc

[andy tims]

PS: Are you aware of Gunther Werks 993 restomods? Check this out. Pretty sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgK8NlwBLDc

This was at Goodwood on Wednesday. 4.0l engine. Fully carbon body.

[stiglet]

No fighting in our house after my demise . Stiglet minor hated driving mine..... I loved it - carbs and all

[ditchvisitor]

Great read, this is the car I just sold, has a 964 3.8 in it on ITBs!




Here’s the current one:

[benny.c]

My long since departed 964 Turbo. It was exceptionally difficult to drive at 10/10ths for me.

[JPE]

What a beauty!

964 Turbos are very desirable as they're still rear wheel drives. 993 Turbo was a four-wheel drive, except for GT2 which is a million dollar plus car now.

Crazy.

[benny.c]

Yep, prices are nuts - I wish I’d held off selling for a while! Not sure what it’s like in Finland but the parts and servicing costs were pretty eye watering at times.

[martynw]

Here are a couple of pics of mine - sold it a few years ago sadly.

It was a 993 Targa, in more or less concours condition. Too nice for me to be honest. I live in South Devon, where we use the hedges in the narrow lanes to keep the mud off our cars:)

I think I'll buy another one day.

Best wishes,
Martyn.

[adigra]

One thing I love about classic Porsche is the availability of parts and the support and remanufacture by the factory. Having had other classic cars you're at the mercy of the used market or (often cheapy made) aftermarket parts. The indicator stalk was starting to fail on the 930, and my specialist warned me replacements were scarce and expensive. As it happened Porsche Classic just released a batch of remanufactured ones at about a third of the price I expected to pay. If this was my old Lotus I would've had to scour autojumbles for years and still settle on not quite the exact part.

I am really looking forward to them adding the 997 to the Classic lineup. It was due this year, but it hasn't happened yet.

[JPE]

Here are a couple of pics of mine - sold it a few years ago sadly.

It was a 993 Targa, in more or less concours condition. Too nice for me to be honest. I live in South Devon, where we use the hedges in the narrow lanes to keep the mud off our cars:)

I think I'll buy another one day.

Best wishes,
Martyn.

Beautiful. Never seen a 993 Targa in the flesh. Those are rare.

That car had a panorama roof before it was called panorama roof.

[Andyg]

Nice write up
964 was my first 911
Total bone shaker



Bought from OPC in 1997 at £27K
Sold in 2000 for £17K

Ouch! It’s now worth at least £50k assuming it’s a manual.

I bought mine in 2001 for £12.5k - still have it and with new coil over suspension makes it a much better environment to drive in.

[JPE]

Ouch! It’s now worth at least £50k assuming it’s a manual.

I bought mine in 2001 for £12.5k - still have it and with new coil over suspension makes it a much better environment to drive in.

50K?

You really have crazy low classic Porsche prices in England. I mean relatively to the rest of the world.

In the US you can't buy any manual 964/993 for less than 70K USD unless it's a very high mileage car. Same in Europe. Only Tiptronics, cabrios and targas can be obtained cheaper.

10 years ago there used to be some cheaper examples that needed some work. After the price increase there is none.

US market has become nuts.

These RS models were both sold for over 400K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...11-carrera-rs/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ra-rs-touring/

[adigra]

Right hand drive keeps the prices here somewhat out of step. Traditionally Japan was the big competing market (Australia too small to make a dent), but with the Yen weak for so long now, many more cars have came back than gone there. I am not sure about the rest of the world, but we had a value slide here after 2016. It didn't affect post 1980 cars as much, they mostly flattened (and have since resumed upwards), but a lot of 50-70's classics came down significantly after their meteoric rise 2010-2016. I actually paid 20% less for my 930 in 2020 than the previous owner did at auction in 2016, and I paid top price. I think people were getting really carried away back then.

[gunner]

Sold my 993 last year after a very enjoyable 7yrs of ownership. There have been several moments of seller's remorse since...

[JPE]

So nice. I will never sell mine.

Did some driving today in Finnish autumn.

[Andyg]

50K?

You really have crazy low classic Porsche prices in England. I mean relatively to the rest of the world.

In the US you can't buy any manual 964/993 for less than 70K USD unless it's a very high mileage car. Same in Europe. Only Tiptronics, cabrios and targas can be obtained cheaper.

10 years ago there used to be some cheaper examples that needed some work. After the price increase there is none.

US market has become nuts.

These RS models were both sold for over 400K.


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...11-carrera-rs/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ra-rs-touring/

50k would be the starting price, but most likely would have “issues” and issues could easily cost £20k to fix.

Mine is a 1990 C2 Manual with everything done including an engine rebuild, new suspension and a number of RUF modes. I just insured it for £70k. Mine is also a LHD 

[Harry Smith]

I really wish I still had one of these, or all of them would be even better











The Wine Red one was my first and the one I loved most. But the 1970 2 litre S would probably be the most valuable now. It was raced around Birmingham city centre in the late 80's. Anyone remember the Birmingham Superprix?

[JPE]

Nice video about getting into the air cooled world.

This guy has a Facebook community too. It's quite friendly place and a lot of nice people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IfLM6qJim8

And nice pic from August. Cruising with a good friend.

[BillN]

Ours, (now shared with my son). - bought it new in 1989