https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62471260
'The UK has seen one million people, mostly in their 50s, leave work since the start of the Covid-19 outbreak'
'Steve Willis retired from his full-time job .....after he' "saw life in a completely different way" ...... during the height of the pandemic.'
Anybody else?
Could I be tempted back? Interviews, assessment centres, compulsory fun away-days, objectives and annual appraisals, monthly KPIs and reports, (notional) 9 to 5 five days a week, dealing with the behaviours of the oddities who seem rise to the senior management positions in British enterprises?
Nah, stuff it.
COVID and WFH permanently made us realise just how much money we spent just being at work rather than at home.
If you don't spend that money and have no mortgage you do look at life differently.
We are planning our retirement next year. I'll be 60 and my wife is - well, I'm not allowed to say am I, being a gentleman and all. But she is a little bit younger than me.
Mortgage free, but no income and not drawing any pension. I’m just not buying anything.
I think two things pushed me over the edge:
1. I don’t mind working part of the week at home and this has been my pattern for many years, but the whole week at home didn’t suit me. Commuting helped me separate home and work life, provided time to prepare and wind down from work. Work became centred around interminable, pointless Teams meetings.
2. After many years, I’d just had enough of the arseholes you have to work with, the behaviours of customers, managers, colleagues. Not all, there was the social element to work, lunch banter, a beer after works, that was pretty good.
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In my 50's, no mortgage, working 1 day a week and I generally avoid going to meetings. Feels right.
I think it is a genuine phenomenom - But I can see many having to/wanting to, to top up their retirement funds and pensions in light of the cost of living crisis.
Will that feed into the economy (outside taxes)? maybe not, they may look at investments.
Most retirees own large houses and have good final salary pensions. Why would they want the hassle of a job where the younger workers would resent them blocking their promotion.
I found retirement difficult to adjust too but I now regard it as a golden part of my life.
Yup, it is plain that this sort of stuff puts off adults of all ages, especially those with greater experience of life.Originally Posted by BillyCasper
There are employers out there who realise this and act differently but, for the most part, they are still smaller companies. Will they eventually out-compete the bigger ones or will they be swallowed. Time will tell.
Most? No, not even remotely close. Some of course but still, taking the UK as a whole, a minority are in such a good position from what I can gather.
Most of my friends live in 4 bed houses which they bought when they had teenage kids. This is a generation who regard property as a non taxed investment so have held onto them to fund home care when they are at the stage when they dribble in towels.
I only bought BTLs (now sold) and Spanish holiday homes because my friends were all doing it.
I think this is a possibility. Both Mrs Casper and I baled out during COVID. I did feel comfortable mostly due to savings in US stocks that have since taken a mighty fall.
Might I go back to work? No chance whilst the sun shines, but perhaps when the leaves fall, and rain comes, but only as a day rate contractor.
There’s many highly educated, experienced workers who’ve stopped before their time. If there is a Labour shortage should we be coerced back? Fiscal measures, although I can’t think what they might be?
I think I might be more enthusiastic about the thought of returning to work, if the life-work balance and work place culture were right. I’ve worked for multi nationals, abroad and for British enterprises in the U.K. I’ve worked for some good organisations, but also some real shockers which unfortunately tended to be domestic British employers.
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Absolutely delusional as ever.
What the hell are you talking about?
the claim was: 'The UK has seen one million people, mostly in their 50s, leave work since the start of the Covid-19 outbreak'
shag-all about established retirees in your social circle.
Most have final salary pensions?
I rather think not.
That's your social circle. It's something of a self-selecting group (which I do not mean in a negative way). It is not remotely representative of your demographic as a whole.
You're in a lucky and/or more-successful-than-most sub-demographic.
Last edited by markrlondon; 9th August 2022 at 18:52.
Never miss a chance for a humble brag or sell a Rolex.
Well I work for an AI company. Young person's game right? Well actually no, I've been hiring people in their late 40s and 50s as I've found their ability to articulate often complex solutions in layman's terms to a non technical audience is better than many younger people. We are certainly benefitting from employing older workers in a tech environment - it actually makes a big difference and we offer full flexibility so they can balance work and home life as they wish
Basically, what the JL boss says is: hiring new people will be more expensive and therefore it will fuel inflation.
Perhaps she has right with this 'cause-effect' (correct English here?). But it seems far-fetched. Other, more pressing matters fuel the inflation now: energy bills - not only for households, but also for manufacturing and logistics; broken supply chain where the 'winner takes all' mentality works: '...if you pay the highest price you'll get the goods.' And don't forget the shortage of semi-conductors. Hiring older people = more expensive.
And the 'queeste' for employees has to do with the fact that a lot of her (John Lewis) people were made redundant during Covid and they're not thinking about turning back to their old employer! She forgets to tell: 'We sacked them first...'. (Search for 'John Lewis redundancy covid').
Last edited by thieuster; 9th August 2022 at 19:16.
They ask for higher wages usually, particularly in management roles
Depends on the role but usually they have a lot more experience and that is what costs more. Or on the flip side in an employer's market an older worker may need a higher salary because of financial commitments that a younger worker doesn't have.
I'd love to be in a position to retire at 50 but I didn't buy a Kermit in 2003.
As it is, I'll be slogging it until I'm dribbling in me soup, so good luck to those in careers that have enabled them to survive from 50 until the end.
I'm 59 & am in the position of not needing to work but enjoy more than ever doing the same job that I've done since 1986, currently 3 days a week. I'm also working one day a week for poor pay teaching students at the University of Bristol & passing on my hard earned practical knowledge...aka 'passing the baton'.
It's good for the mental health having a reason to get out of bed in the morning!
I retired at 54, 36 months ago. I’ve been volunteering at the Commonwealth games for 2 weeks which has been enjoyable and an interesting experiment regarding going back to work. I’ve enjoyed the experience but I’m glad it’s over!
Yeh I went last April - @52
No mortgage- no wife - no income
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Last edited by lewie; 9th August 2022 at 22:09.
I am 53 and thought I wanted to retire a year or two from now and could afford to do so.
If I was in a stressful management job and dealing with loads of crap I probably would.
But I am now deeply technical in my oil and gas field, respected for it, manage nobody, rarely do more than 7.5 hour days, work from home a lot and am old enough to ignore the corporate bullsh1t and smile nicely at my 35 year old manager during appraisal time, realising there is no point pushing water up hill.
Plus I am paid well for not having to deal with crap.
This is my secret for enjoying my work in my 50s.
I packed in at 53 after a cancer episode
Best thing I ever did
Wild horses wouldn't drag me back
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Let's not overlook that Sharon White has trashed John Lewis so it's a hard pass from me on anything she comes up with
Similar to many here. Mid 50s and on a glide path towards retirement - hopefully in 5 or so years.
Don’t want a promotion as I don’t want the agro that comes with such (namely managing people) so keeping my head down, smiling during appraisals, and as much as I possibly can, ignoring the corporate political BS.
After lockdown I certainly don’t want to go back to the office 5 days, but find a 50/50 blend works for me - knuckle down when on show, and mow the lawn on WFH days
As soon as I have enough money to do me until the pension kicks in at 60
If I went at 55 (year and a half from now) I don't think I'd have enough-daughter will still be at Uni and older boys still not in stable employment so I could see having to give some financial support.
As soon as I can I'm done though.
58 tops but hopefully sooner.
Why work if you don't have to? If you have a vocation and enjoy it fair enough. Enjoy.
If you work to afford to live, as soon as you can afford not to, run away.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
That's a laugh considering the extent of ageism there has been in recruitment for some time. If you are lucky enough to have a job that makes you want to work at whatever age, good luck to you. Sadly, I get the impression that there are not too many places that you'd want to work if you had enough money to not need to.
Now at 61, 2 ex wife’s and another on the way means between 50 and 60 hours a week. Would love to give up work but like a lot on here will be slaving away till they deliver my coffin.
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Is this the same Sharon White who was appointed to head JL having no retail experience whatsoever?
JL’s historical success was very much driven by really excellent customer services and when that went in the bin, so did the customer footfall as the reasons to pay more at JL disappeared. As the old saying goes, it can take a decade to build trust but only a week to lose it, clearly a saying that is totally incomprehensible to the very well paid JL senior ‘executives’.
I'm fortunate, retired, decent pension, living in a very energy efficient flat, and no mortgage.
Most of all though, a lovely wife, and 2x 4yr old grandchildren (which keep us busy) & oh, a few cheap watches😁
Yep bit of a stretch i think, people dont cause inflation governments do, not to mention these 1m people will no longer have the disposable income they had and will be tightening their belts and reducing their spending
Makes a change from blaming Brexit I guess
Yes companies will have to start paying people more money if they want them to work, you cant blame inflation you can blame yourselves for underpaying in the past
My wife keeps saying " you might live to an old age, but how many good years do you have left" she has a good point how long before you cant do the things you dream about.
My plans have not changed at all, but definitely Covid has done us a small favour - I've not set foot in the office more than twice in nearly 3 years now and am now permanently home-based by agreement which makes managing quality time with my young son much easier for us both.
I'm in my late 50s and fortunate enought to work in IT for an NHS quango so have a generous final salary pension to look forward to which I'm planning to take at 60 even though it will obviously be substantially reduced vs 67. This is informed by the fact my father died at 73 - the idea of only getting 6 years retirement plays on my mind a bit (fortunately he retired at 52, so had a decent stretch).
If someone offers me a remote contracting or part time position where I can work from Spain then I'd consider it though as it's some time before my wife can retire and I can imagine that's going to be hard to manage.
Last edited by Scepticalist; 10th August 2022 at 08:48.
I retired against my will at 61 due to having my arm twisted by my wife who was then 58. She wanted to do travel and spend time in Spain etc and to forget about work. We had ten years of a good retirement travelling everywhere and it came to an end when covid struck which we knew would be a 2 year period so we resigned ourselves to a relatively mundane existence until things got back to normal.
She then suffered a stroke and it has knocked our retirement for six. She is recovering and is now fairly mobile and we can get to Spain easily enough but the days of cruising and long distance flights are forever over. We have had to cancel holidays to the Holy Lands and India.
We are both glad we retired fairly early and that I turned down the job offers that kept coming in for a few years.
There are four stages in your life, first you are a toddler, then you receive your education, then you work and finally you retire. That final stage is the one that you need to grab with both hands because the reality is that even if you retire at 50, your health is slowly receding and it becomes more difficult to do things.
We all have regrets in life but I have yet to meet anyone who reckoned they left work too early.
Work pressures can be enormous today and one of the consequences is that a lot of us are flaked out at 60 and just need to put our feet up.
So just retire at the earliest opportunity and give the work scene the one finger salute.
How on earth did you know it would be a two year period? Are you God by any chance?
To be fair, anybody sensible knew by August that the idea we'd be over it by Christmas was hopelessly optimistic. I assumed two years too.
I have at least another 15/20 years to go until I retire.
Half way through my working life and I have already had enough! :-)
No chance we'll be retired by 60, not even close. Maybe with inheritance clearing the mortgage or part of it but I'm mid 30s and can't see another 25 years ahead of me.
My wife's cousin just moved up to the peak district, had enough of London, found out on the weekend they don't have a mortgage anymore. Absolute dream - they're only 34.
I guess if you were lucky enough to be able to afford to retire then the past couple of years may have given the added incentive to ‘jump’. Then I would also presume that you then wanted to spend your 25% on stuff you’ve always wanted. So yeah, probably a factor in the demand for watches, cars etc that have all gone up crazy values
I didn't believe it would have been over by the Christmas either, and two years as a guess was as good as any. The difference is Mick "knew" it would be a two year period.
It could fairly be argued that its not over yet, hope this isn't the case of course.
Financially, leaving London was a mistake, but one that I don't regret in any other way. No idea why you'd live there if you don't have to, especially if you've been a property owner long enough to move elsewhere and be mortgage free.
I agree with you Mick...can't be many lying on their deathbeds regretting not spending more time in t'office...my FiL might just be one of them, but he's not quite 'right', plus some Americans rich or poor, do seem to prefer working till they drop...live to work huh.
I've not yet met anyone in their 80's still enjoying sufficient health/ fitness to do as they'd wish...not saying they aren't out there, that it can't be done though.
I got out at 40, reckon I'm possibly an outlier and very lucky...Turned 51 last month, with some more luck I can reasonably look foreward to another decade or two, before things start falling apart.
If I can manage 30 years of reasonably healthy retirement I'll have had ten more years retired than in work, sweet, that'd be something like winning!
I was handed one of these for the first time (with my current company) this year. One of the questions was 'describe your weaknesses'. I handed it back with only that question filled in.
"I'm stubborn and refuse to waste my time on pointless excercises."
I do have a very good relationship with my boss. He also thinks the appraisal is a waste of time. There's no bonus linked to it, no money for pay rises, no promotion and no budget for any training to address weaknesses. The company filed for Chapter 11 in California weeks after handing out the appraisals.
I'm 52, I have two mortgages to clear, if those were gone my pension pot is currently big enough for me to retire at 67, but not big enough for me to go now.
Her husband is an only child and got the granddad's inheritance. His parents are both drs and didn't want it.
If I got an inheritance like that I'd keep my mortgage and move to a bigger house but they're smart and I'm not.
I left the "workforce" yesterday, albeit I still get paid for another month due to accumulated leave. Mid 50's.
That's 35 years of graft (at times thousands of miles from home and regularly 7 days a week) and as commented above now entering a new phase. 19 years as kid/student, 35 working and what next? If I'm lucky maybe 25 years or so - hopefully a lot more. Seems a reasonable ratio.
A few considerations drove this decision:
- I have friends who have been retired for a number years and two in particular said with hindsight they didn't need to have done the last 5 years of work i.e. that's 5 years longer in the workforce and 5 years less enjoying retirement when younger. These two guys both have more money than they need and splash it on stuff to use it. Seems such a waste with hindsight. They could have been comfortable with less and enjoyed retirement choices for longer.
- Some neighbours are retired and now in 70s. Their reaction to me telling them I had made the call was "Brilliant, the younger you do it the better. Once you get into your 70s everything becomes so much harder to do." This coupe are still very active, but that's sage advice.
- We spend our working lives providing for a later life (if you think, plan and act ahead...) and you can either sleepwalk into conventional timings or things being forced on you, or you can calculate what position allows you to change direction and start to live what you have planned for.
- Working at the rate I have been could well put me in an early grave - and there are many examples of people not making it. My 25 years or so forecast above could be well out and I might have a lot less. In which case let's crack on with life now and not wait "just another year". I've heard an example of someone who was going to give it just one more year who died at their desk, as well as examples of those who make it to retirement and last just 2 or 3 years. I don't want to be that guy.
I thought I needed to have paid off my mortgage before I could retire, but the approach I've taken is that we can afford to live with current outgoings for a couple of years before making any material changes. As that 24 months progresses we'll make decisions. Do we relocate, do we downsize, do we rejig stuff and try to clear mortgage, do we go back to work? These are all options/considerations and we'll get to them once we have had a chance to reset.
I've already had two unsolicited offers of work but am counseling myself to say "Thanks but no thanks" for at least the next 6 months and quite possibly longer and then maybe forever subject to how things go. If I was just going to start another job then it would have been silly to give up the amazing (but demanding) job I've just left. I should just give it another year...
Do I know what the future now holds? Nope.
Am I excited about what it could be? Yes.
To help with this I've sold almost all my watches, consolidated cars (released cash and now cheaper to run) and will be having a major declutter and eBay fest when I have time on my hands.
PS we don't have children, just cats. That helps with plans to retire earlier.
You seem intent on an argument but let's replace the word "knew" with the word "expected". Will that keep you happy.
Common sense dictated that supply chains in China alone will take ages to recover and Brexit was going to cause import problems for a while so the compound effect was pretty dire. It's not even over yet and until China is firing on all fours, everything is going to be lumpy. The dry weather in the UK will be the cause of food shortages and create even more inflation and again all this is plain common sense. Of course you will blame the government for importing food that will push up prices, and you can also blame the government for energy shortages that Putin has created and as a bonus car prices seem due for an increase due to a lumpy supply for that's another chance for a good old argument.
Anyone over the age of 12 realised this, so I am nothing special in stating what is the blinding obvious.
Good choice, retirement feels strange at first but it's all pluses and no minuses. Enjoy it and enjoy a drink in the sun in your garden. You couldn't have done that last week.
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