Locking wheel nut key stuck on car wheel- any advice?

[Yeti]

Hi guys,
I’ve had a Jaguar XJ (2016) for the last 6 months. Wheels all needed refurbing but hadn’t got round to it til now. Was aware I didn’t have a locking wheel nut key with the car when I bought but the dealer said he’d send one on. (Never happened).
Anyhow, there appeared to be some metal welded to one of the nuts on one of the front alloys. Today I visited a jag dealer who kindly removed 3 of the 4 locking wheel nuts. So the nut with what looks like a blob of metal on appears to be the locking wheel nut key stuck onto the nut. It’s freely spinning which is what I’ve been told happens when someone attempts to remove the locking wheel nut without the key…
So the jag mechanic says to me, il probably need to get it on the ramp and drill it out and it’ll take me an hour. I go in the office and the pen pusher says it’ll take 2 hours and be £400 odd quid. And if they damage the thread it’ll need a new wheel bearing at another £400 odd quid.
One bloody locking wheel nut has driven me nuts today. I’ve watched some YouTube, tried a smaller socket size than the nut and tried to hammer it on. Unfortunately I think this only works if it’s just the locking wheel nut, not the locking wheel nut with the locking wheel nut key attached and stuck!
Any helpful suggestions would be really welcomed…fire away any tips guys, il be eternally grateful for not paying a main stealer £400 odd quid!
Cheers, Will





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[Franky Four Fingers]

Sadly its a scourge of modern locking wheel nuts and Jag/Land Rover seem worse than most. It certainly isn't the locking tool on there and id say whats left over is probably an attempt to remove previously. There isn’t an easy answer to this, with a recess like that you’ll always do some kind of damage one way or another.
One thing that you can try is to remove all the other nuts so that its hanging on the one buggered one and pull the wheel towards you so youre essentially loading the nut, this may be enough to give it a small amount of movement, with care you may be able to chisel the nut around enough to get it moving. Don’t think you've got a lot of room there but an Irwin may fit, if not there is always an option to weld a larger nut on there which would also cause a little heat and help removal. Either way its not going to be easy unless you get lucky.

Edit….if only people would remove the locking nut with a bar instead of using impact guns this issue would be greatly reduced

[MCFastybloke]

Jag nuts are terrible for this,

You can smash a tight inpact socket onto it and then turn that
You can drill the center out (stud) in ever increasing sizes then replace the stud.

I got mine off a third way but your stump is too far gone.

When you do get it off swap it for a toyota nut, far better quality and now available in 19mm to fit your wheelbrace.

[Yeti]

Thanks for the responses guys. Having just found yet another YouTube video, it appears the outer cap on the wheel nut is hardened steel and it’s been suggested to dremel a slot into the head and give it a bloody good hammering which should in theory break the hardened part of the nut leaving the rest of the nut exposed and more susceptible to a socket being used to now remove the nut…
I think il try this first. I’ve actually got 4 new alloys coming tomorrow so not bothered too much about damage to the existing wheel although I wouldn’t like to damage it if possible…

[TomGW]

Use a drill, then a Dremel to cut a slot in the outer and split it with a chisel, to expose the nut underneath. Next bin all the dopey Jaguar nuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9DU2sgW6Gw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lQaI3u36fg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AE-l6F6NF8

Edit: Too slow I see. Good luck.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Thanks for the responses guys. Having just found yet another YouTube video, it appears the outer cap on the wheel nut is hardened steel and it’s been suggested to dremel a slot into the head and give it a bloody good hammering which should in theory break the hardened part of the nut leaving the rest of the nut exposed and more susceptible to a socket being used to now remove the nut…
I think il try this first. I’ve actually got 4 new alloys coming tomorrow so not bothered too much about damage to the existing wheel although I wouldn’t like to damage it if possible…

Thats not an option now as some bellend has welded something on there

[Franky Four Fingers]

Thanks for the responses guys. Having just found yet another YouTube video, it appears the outer cap on the wheel nut is hardened steel and it’s been suggested to dremel a slot into the head and give it a bloody good hammering which should in theory break the hardened part of the nut leaving the rest of the nut exposed and more susceptible to a socket being used to now remove the nut…
I think il try this first. I’ve actually got 4 new alloys coming tomorrow so not bothered too much about damage to the existing wheel although I wouldn’t like to damage it if possible…

Do you have a pic of your locking tool?

[Yeti]

Do you have a pic of your locking tool?

Nope we never got supplied one. A main dealer kindly removed the other 3 with the master set they had at the dealership.

[Yeti]

Thats not an option now as some bellend has welded something on there

Do you think I could knock the weld off with a cold chisel, then knock the hardened steel cap off before finally getting to the nut and undoing with a socket? Or to cut along story short, what does the welding mean?

[Franky Four Fingers]

Do you think I could knock the weld off with a cold chisel, then knock the hardened steel cap off before finally getting to the nut and undoing with a socket? Or to cut along story short, what does the welding mean?

Did they look like this

Or these?



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[Kitsan]

This might work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I61DjzBJ2C8

[Jeremy67]

Nobody steals wheels these days, I always remove the bloody things as soon as i get a car

[Yeti]

Did they look like this

Or these?



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Bottom

[FazerBoy]

Nobody steals wheels these days, I always remove the bloody things as soon as i get a car

Does it drive well without wheels..?

[Franky Four Fingers]

Bottom

Cool so they are the ones you can cut the caps off but its been welded, id be very surprised if you’d manage to knock the weld off. I feel your only option is in the last video and i mentioned them in my first post…..an Irwin if it fits

[sprite1275]

Ive done it before by hammering a tight socket on to it (the star type socket) so its tight enough to turn with your wrench.

[watchlovr]

Ive done it before by hammering a tight socket on to it (the star type socket) so its tight enough to turn with your wrench.

This.
If you’re struggling, drive it to your local tyre fitter. They’ll do just this for £20

[Franky Four Fingers]

Actually, if you zoom in to your first pic someone may have already tried an Irwin…witness marks there



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[oldoakknives]

What about an old fashioned box spanner. Cut shorter so it only protrudes 45mm or so out from the wheel face. It's thin walled enough to sleeve over the wheel nut. Then use an arc welder to weld the nut to the sleeve down inside it. The 'tube' will protect the wheel enough from the welding perhaps. Then turn the box spanner with a bar through it.
(check out with the garage safe ways of welding on cars without damaging the electrics)

[DONGinsler]

Previous owner probably lost the key and a shop tried to weld something to it to put it on.

My suggestion. Call around and ask about mig welding a piece of L shaped rebar to the blob and using that as a lug wrench to loosen it.

Avoid an acetylene torch as that might be too much heat around the alloy rims

Dremel. Diamond grit cutters. Could try cutting pieces of the blob off, but I have these and they don't last that long. Could be there for days until you cut down to the lug nut

DON

- - - Updated - - -

Previous owner probably lost the key and a shop tried to weld something to it to put it on.

My suggestion. Call around and ask about mig welding a piece of L shaped rebar to the blob and using that as a lug wrench to loosen it.

Avoid an acetylene torch as that might be too much heat around the alloy rims

Dremel. Diamond grit cutters. Could try cutting pieces of the blob off, but I have these and they don't last that long. Could be there for days until you cut down to the lug nut

DON

[higham5]

Im sure I read on either here or another forum there is a growing market in mobile locking wheel nut removing. Often two skills mis fuelling or wheelnuts in the same van.

The case I read about was solved by wacking a socket type implement on and using a scaffolding pole length of bar. Guy said wheelnut was off before he made the guy a brew. From memory cost was £100/ 120. Might be worth exploring as if these guys are doing it all day long they will have a strategy to remove the most stubborn nuts.

First hit on google for my area

https://www.lockingwheelnutremove.co.uk/

Steve

[hogthrob]

One bloody locking wheel nut has driven me nuts

I've got a steering wheel in my pants, and that's driving me nuts.



Sorry.

[Kingstepper]

I've got a steering wheel in my pants, and that's during me nuts.



Sorry.

Driving!

[NikGixer750]

There are companies out there that can remove them easily. They have a hard key they drive into the metal and then spin it off. I had mine done with a company in Pontefract, took him 2 mins to get it off with a very large hammer. Most local garages would not help when my locking nut broke. I have since removed them and just have all standard nuts on.

[hogthrob]

Driving!

Stupid autocorrect

[johny]

Hi op

You say that you have new wheels coming. Jack it up and put it on an axle stand and take all the other nuts off then just get a big angle grinder fitted with a cutting blade or a stilsaw and start cutting the wheel up around/ across the nut. Possibly a bit drastic for some but gets the job done.

[Robertf]

Can you drill a hole in the centre then screw in an easy out bolt extractor?

[mattleicester]

Last one of these I had to deal with I ended up using a little grinder on the inside of the disc/ hub air chiseled the remaining part and the rest of the stud came out with the chewed up wheel lock basically a back to front extraction as I didn't want to ruin the wheel . took a small section off the new wheel stud collar and it went in the hub without dismantling real ball ache and every customer is pre-warned now before I look at the car

[barreti]

Get an expert in.

I lost the key for my wheel nuts just before leaving for France
I might have been able to get them off myself but the wheels are rare and I didn’t want to damage them
It cost me £80 and they took all four off in less than an hour without a mark on the wheels

[gingerboy]

I trained as a mechanic and we used to get this more often than you'd think. We would knock on an undersized socket and 9 out of 10 times it would work.

We eventually invested in something like this.

Laser 6972 Wheel Locking Nut Removal Kit https://amzn.eu/d/58W1Znp

I definitely would not be parting with £400 at Jaguar. If you arent mechanically minded call out a mobile service that does this for a living

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[Scepticalist]

You have new wheels on the way?

As above, either weld a bar onto it and use that toturn it off or just use an angle grinder to enlarge the hole enough to take the wheel off with the nut in situ. Once it's off use mole grips to remove whats left

[mattleicester]

You have new wheels on the way?

As above, either weld a bar onto it and use that toturn it off or just use an angle grinder to enlarge the hole enough to take the wheel off with the nut in situ. Once it's off use mole grips to remove whats left

The biggest problem with most of these ideas is we are dealing with a locking nut and not a locking bolt the stud is still in the middle and it looks like it's been welded over . They don't leave any room to work with and the jag nuts are made out of chocolate

[oldoakknives]

The biggest problem with most of these ideas is we are dealing with a locking nut and not a locking bolt the stud is still in the middle and it looks like it's been welded over . They don't leave any room to work with and the jag nuts are made out of chocolate

If they started out like these I still reckon someone good with a stick welder (arc) could weld a box spanner onto the nut if the box spanner was cut down to just leave 40-50mm protruding from the wheel. It would mean welding down inside the box spanner. Tricky but not impossible. One that was a tight fit to start with over the nut would make it easier.

And tighten all the other wheel nuts on the wheel to try and take the tension of the wheel off the locking nut.

Of course if a specialist will turn up and remove it for £100 it sounds like a good idea!

Did they look like this





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Handy things arc welders. We used to use one to remove outer bearing races that were tight to press out. Remove the inner race and run a weld front to back across the inside of the outer race in 3 or 4 places. When it cools it shrinks and presses out very easily!

[Jimmcb]

This.
If you’re struggling, drive it to your local tyre fitter. They’ll do just this for £20

Agree with this. Dealers will charge dealer mechanic rates. Kwik fit or the like do it for an everyday living.

Jim

[blackie]

I had this with 2 wheels on the same car once where the tw@s at the garage had used an impact driver putting them on
One I managed to get off by using about 100 dremel cutting discs and the other wouldn't come off so I ended up losing the wheel by taking the abour out of a 25mm starret cutter and drilling the alloy around it all the way to the disc.

[Yeti]

Agree with this. Dealers will charge dealer mechanic rates. Kwik fit or the like do it for an everyday living.

Jim

I wish it was that easy. I tried about 5 tyre places none could do it.
In theory you smack a smaller socket over the locking wheel nut and it will come off. Due to the weld and the jag design, the head was just spinning. We in theory needed to remove the weld and the spinning cap to expose the nut underneath.
In short I paid a mobile locking wheel but company to come and do it. Of which il update this thread shortly as I’m not too happy with the cowboys that came-although they did the job.

[Jimmcb]

I wish it was that easy. I tried about 5 tyre places none could do it.
In theory you smack a smaller socket over the locking wheel nut and it will come off. Due to the weld and the jag design, the head was just spinning. We in theory needed to remove the weld and the spinning cap to expose the nut underneath.
In short I paid a mobile locking wheel but company to come and do it. Of which il update this thread shortly as I’m not too happy with the cowboys that came-although they did the job.

I’m intrigued! Hope there was no damage inflicted.

Jim

[hilly10]

I wish it was that easy. I tried about 5 tyre places none could do it.
In theory you smack a smaller socket over the locking wheel nut and it will come off. Due to the weld and the jag design, the head was just spinning. We in theory needed to remove the weld and the spinning cap to expose the nut underneath.
In short I paid a mobile locking wheel but company to come and do it. Of which il update this thread shortly as I’m not too happy with the cowboys that came-although they did the job.

Hi Yeti
Hope it’s not to bad, it’s seems like it’s turning into a absolute nightmare.

[Yeti]

I called locking wheel nut remover who seem to be the no1 online people to call. Arranged with them to come to mine as the first job in the morning as had work commitments from 12ish onwards. Lo and behold 11.30am no sign of them so I call the owner who was not really bothered and said hes “engineer” will get there when he gets there. 12pm I call as now I’m a bit peed off thinking I’m going to be late for my work commitments. Owner is royally condescending of which I reminded him he promised I would be the first job in morning. Anyhow 12.15pm a 2 door c43 amg pulls up with a young guy who must keep his local tattoo shop in business. Out he jumps. Whacks a small socket on to the weld and removes that. (Why didn’t I think of that?) then uses some form of tool to remove the locking wheel nut. Great. “£100 is the bill right?” (What I was quoted on the phone.) It’s now £110 plus vat. Ok here’s my card. Just want him gone now. He leaves I leave. Check the receipt and receipt is WF recovery. Hmmm what’s going on here. So that evening I’m thinking, I bet these cowboys aren't vat registered and are topping up the cost by adding vat and not sending it to the vat man. (Couldn’t find any company or vat number anywhere). So I send the guy a message asking for an invoice with his vat number. Surprise surprise, I get a message. Oh we only look after the WhatsApp blah blah blah. I said that’s funny you’ve answered the phone, seen the WhatsApp photos and confirmed price etc all before hand and have been a right condescending git on the phone all morning now your trying to distance yourself? Anyhow I’m yet to receive a vat number so looks like cowboys bumping up customers bills with false vat charges. I could be wrong but the 2 door coupe, Nike tracksuit and lack of company registration etc ring some bells. Anyhow, asked them to send my vat back or il contact HMRC Monday morning and haven’t heard anything back. It’s the principle but maybe I should let it go?

[Ruggertech]

It’s the principle but maybe I should let it go?

I fully understand it sticking on your craw, but yes, I would let it go. The job is done, and remember, they know where you live.

[noTAGlove]

said his “engineer” will get there when he gets there.

So, now a guy who removes locking wheel nuts with a socket set is an engineer?

I thought you had to at least fix washing machines to be called an engineer, lol.

[Jimmcb]

I called locking wheel nut remover who seem to be the no1 online people to call. Arranged with them to come to mine as the first job in the morning as had work commitments from 12ish onwards. Lo and behold 11.30am no sign of them so I call the owner who was not really bothered and said hes “engineer” will get there when he gets there. 12pm I call as now I’m a bit peed off thinking I’m going to be late for my work commitments. Owner is royally condescending of which I reminded him he promised I would be the first job in morning. Anyhow 12.15pm a 2 door c43 amg pulls up with a young guy who must keep his local tattoo shop in business. Out he jumps. Whacks a small socket on to the weld and removes that. (Why didn’t I think of that?) then uses some form of tool to remove the locking wheel nut. Great. “£100 is the bill right?” (What I was quoted on the phone.) It’s now £110 plus vat. Ok here’s my card. Just want him gone now. He leaves I leave. Check the receipt and receipt is WF recovery. Hmmm what’s going on here. So that evening I’m thinking, I bet these cowboys aren't vat registered and are topping up the cost by adding vat and not sending it to the vat man. (Couldn’t find any company or vat number anywhere). So I send the guy a message asking for an invoice with his vat number. Surprise surprise, I get a message. Oh we only look after the WhatsApp blah blah blah. I said that’s funny you’ve answered the phone, seen the WhatsApp photos and confirmed price etc all before hand and have been a right condescending git on the phone all morning now your trying to distance yourself? Anyhow I’m yet to receive a vat number so looks like cowboys bumping up customers bills with false vat charges. I could be wrong but the 2 door coupe, Nike tracksuit and lack of company registration etc ring some bells. Anyhow, asked them to send my vat back or il contact HMRC Monday morning and haven’t heard anything back. It’s the principle but maybe I should let it go?

Please tell me you didn’t give him your remote fob car keys so as to ‘just move the motor a bit to get access?’

[MCFastybloke]

I doubt Hmrc will be slightest bit interested, no invoice to prove they charged the Vat in the first place. Suggest now you get some new nuts all round as the jag items have form for this by design. The Toyota items are a lot better and very popular with owners. Some sets are 21mm so need a different wheelbrace/socket for removal. A torque wrench is handy too.

[xxnick1975]

Great that it's sorted without too much bother.

Appreciate you needed to get to work so were under time pressure but with hindsight the moment to deal with this was when you were paying. Should have said you'll been quoted £100 all in, not £110+VAT and taken it from there. But no criticism - I've certain been in the same boat, sometimes the path of lease resistance appeals.

I wouldnt dwell on the trackie, coupe or £30 extra now.

I guess there was a point earlier when you would have bitten the guys hand of to have this sorted for £130, try and look at it that way and move on.

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[Yeti]

I guess there was a point earlier when you would have bitten the guys hand of to have this sorted for £130, try and look at it that way and move on.

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Absolutely. Yes, I think I’ll put it down to experience and move on. If I’m being honest, the chap rubbed me up the wrong way on the phone with his attitude and I’ve bitten but life’s too short.