Another car insurance question

[Onelasttime]

We went away for a few days on Saturday. On the M11 there was a tail back, traffic travelling at 10-15, then stop. We were stopped at one point when the bloke behind decided he wasn't going to and smashed into the back of us at about 15mph.

Long story short he admitted fault, muttering something about pulling the sun visor down. There was no direct sun shining on the windscreen at the time so I suspect he was looking at his phone.

Anyway, there is damage to the rear door and bumper:







However, the car already has marks and a shallow dent along the passenger side doors where persons/vehicle unknown scraped it a couple of years ago. I never bothered claiming because it's a 2009 Mazda and I didn't want any aggro with premiums and NCD, and it doesn't look that bad. Speed dents!

I have all the driver's details and wonder whether it's worth me pursuing to get the door and bumper repaired, knowing the car will still have damage anyway and my premium will go up, even though the claim will be soley on his insurance.

It's annoying because otherwise the car is spot on and has been the most reliable, effective, family load lugger I've ever owned, but it's now starting to look a bit stock car.

What would the less well-heeled members do? Claim and get it sorted? Or just carry on, run the car into the ground and accept the law of bangernomics?

[sundial]

Insurance company claims depts. usually require photographs taken by their approved body repairer showing the accident damage. If you try and include additional damage not related to recent accident, you might / could end up with your insurance co. deciding it's a fraudulent claim ... because they'd realise the front door could not have been damaged. The whole claim could then be disallowed. But consider speaking with the body shop's assessor and try and negotiate a deal whereby they repair actual recent damage (subject to your insurance co's approval) and see if they can offer you a decent deal for the front door damage ... which you'd pay for yourself. You should not risk making a fraudulent claim as it will affect future insurance renewals. Accident damage phone pix (including video) are usually sent direct to the insurer via the assessor's phone ... and for a simple claim, approved / disapproved straight away. If neither accident was your fault they should not affect your NCD.

[lewie]

Insurance company claims depts. usually require photographs taken by their approved body repairer showing the accident damage. If you try and include additional damage not related to recent accident, you might / could end up with your insurance co. deciding it's a fraudulent claim ... because they'd realise the front door could not have been damaged. The whole claim could then be disallowed. But consider speaking with the body shop's assessor and try and negotiate a deal whereby they repair actual recent damage (subject to your insurance co's approval) and see if they can offer you a decent deal for the front door damage ... which you'd pay for yourself. You should not risk making a fraudulent claim as it will affect future insurance renewals. Accident damage phone pix (including video) are usually sent direct to the insurer via the assessor's phone ... and for a simple claim, approved / disapproved straight away. If neither accident was your fault they should not affect your NCD.

I don’t think the OP is suggesting adding previous damage to the claim
Maybe the 3rd party would drop you some cash ?

[Onelasttime]

I don’t think the OP is suggesting adding previous damage to the claim
Maybe the 3rd party would drop you some cash ?

Exactly. I'm not claiming anything for the side doors. I'm simply wondering if it's worth claiming for boot door and bumper fix if the side doors are aesthetically fecked anyway?

As the first poster suggests, it might even be a write-off. If the car was in reasonable condition for age, e.g. stone chips, paint swirlies, odd small dent here and there, it would seem to be worth £4k-ish on Autotrader, but mine is well-used and dented, so …?

I suspect insurance will look at replacing bumper, door and all associated lights and electrics and cost it north of £2k. I might be wrong, but this is my feeling.

Hence the question here if it was worth claiming for the driver's mistake.

That said, if it was a write-off, presumably this would still be on the other driver's insurance and I would receive the value the two insurance companies decided between them?

We have another banger and have always been planning to chop both in for one car so I can do without this one if needs be.

What do we think?

[sundial]

Apologies for the misunderstanding OP

dunk

[Onelasttime]

Apologies for the misunderstanding OP

dunk

No problem. There are people who would try and get a brand new car out of it, but they be dishonest people.

[J J Carter]

A possible option is to speak to the other party and ask if they'd pay for the repair due to them hitting you instead of you claiming with the consequential impact on their no-claims discount and increase in premiums? You could get a quote for repairs, making it clear this isn't an insurance job to get a more realistic price. I'd have though a panel beater could get the worst out, of course it would need a respray to fully fix.

NB as you were hit from behind, I hope you've seen a specialist about soft-tissue damage, whiplash and neck sprain injuries. The medics report may influence you on a insurance claim for compensation plus financial losses, such as if you need to take time off work to recover.

[jukeboxs]

Write-off at 15mph?! Seems highly unlikely. I'd agree a sum with the other party and get the damage repaired at a trusted local body shop. [I have a guy I use regularly, for minor repairs before I return my lease cars, works wonders and reasonable prices. Sure you'll have one nearby.]

[Peck]

The Mrs runs an old banger and I ran into the back of someone in it and damaged their bumper (slightly less than yours). Fortunately he worked in the trade and was happy to sort it without messing with insurance. Cost me about £250 and I was happy and relieved to pay it.

Her car is a 61 plate and there was a bit of damage on the front that I feared may well have written it off had we gone through insurance. Much like you it has been a BRILLIANT car and we really didn’t want to go down that road. So we didn’t.

I’d be tempted to see if the guy is willing to sort something privately I think. However I guess it will depend on what he was driving and how much damage he has caused to his own car. Also, looks like yours will cost a fair bit to fix - that’s a pretty big dent. Does the boot open and function ok?

[DONGinsler]

Point out original damage and current by the driver. Pay out of pocket if you want the old damaged fixed. if not overly pricey. Do it as long as they're fixing the current damage.

Make sure they check for frame damage if door/s rub when opening

Make notes before taking it in for inspection

If you didn't cause the damage. Why should your rates go up?

DON

[Kingstepper]

If you didn't cause the damage. Why should your rates go up?

DON

Because he’s now perceived a bigger risk.

Of course, insurers should really be informed whatever OP decides to do.

[NikGixer750]

If the damage does not bother you, ask the guy for a cash payment to repair the car, then either keep the cash and don't repair the car or repair it. The ball is in your court fully, but as you said reporting it will increase your premiums next few years.

I would still get it checked by a garage to see there is no damage that you cant visually see, I gather the car still drives fine.

[greasemonkey]

worth a look on ebay to see if there is a s/h tailgate and bumper for sale in the right colour,if so get a quote for fitting and contact the other driver and see if he will pay for it.woud probably cheaper for him than you claiming on his insurance.i would also check that the tailgate seal is not compromised,if it is,could get a bit fumy inside..

[Onelasttime]

It's a bloody nightmare

The car drives fine and the boot shuts and locks properly with no discernible difference.

I could ask a garage to quote but I'm crazy busy at work this week so wouldn't get to it until next.

If it was £200-400 I wouldn't mind asking the bloke direct for the cash, but I suspect this is new bumper and door territory, which will push it past £1k.

I'll heed the previous suggestion and scour ebay for Mazda parts and see if I can get a quote to fit.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

[Dave+63]

No need to be a nightmare, just go through the insurance, they will either repair or write it off.

If they repair it then all is good.

If they write it off then you can buy it back cheaply and continue to use it as is or get it repaired cheaper than using the insurance repairers.

[Captaincook]

Personally, if it was me, I would claim off my insurance for the car. Given the uncertainly of the overall/total damage, I would also be happier for you to claim off the insurance co if I was the driver too.

I suspect your car will be written off and the insurance co will pay out. I understood you had the option to buy it back for salvage money, but if you no longer need the car, don’t buy it back.

Yes your insurance premium will go up as a non fault claim, but ultimately you should not be out of pocket for your car.

[Onelasttime]

No need to be a nightmare, just go through the insurance, they will either repair or write it off.

If they repair it then all is good.

If they write it off then you can buy it back cheaply and continue to use it as is or get it repaired cheaper than using the insurance repairers.

Thanks, but the question is a little bit more nuanced. If this was the only damage on the car and it would get it back to best, then I'd be inclined to take the premium rises as a hit and get it fixed. However, the car is pretty bashed-up anyway so I'm trying to work out if it's even worth fixing.

I'm annoyed that the idiot who crashed into me might get away with no repurcussions.

[thegreatdogwood]

Most insurers now will not dock your no claims bonus if you deal with the other parties insurers direct. The other insurer will normally be super helpful as it saves them money organising the repair and avoiding excessive claims for loan cars, etc.

You need to tell your insurer, but tell them you are going to handle the claim yourself. Do NOT take up their offer of using a third party to manage the claim for you. Your insurer will tell you that route will not impact your no claims bonus but if you google companies like Auxilis, you will find lots of scenarios where they ramp the claim with expensive loan vehicles and you can get sucked into court proceedings.

As long as the other parties insurance is reputable, they will make it easy for you to deal direct and it will not impact your no claims bonus.

[Christian]

This has happened to me before. Best route is if he admits full liability and you deal directly with his insurance company (you notify your own, but then it effectively gets handed over). If it is a write off, they should give you an option to buy the car back. I doubt it will increase your premium massively...I think mine went up by £30 the following year.

If you didn't cause the damage. Why should your rates go up?

DON

They use any accident history as evidence of a higher risk of collision, which makes sense.

[NigeG]

No need to be a nightmare, just go through the insurance, they will either repair or write it off.

If they repair it then all is good.

If they write it off then you can buy it back cheaply and continue to use it as is or get it repaired cheaper than using the insurance repairers.

If it is written off and the OP buys it back to continue using the car it will now be a Cat N write off. N standing for Non Structural.

It may well be fine to drive etc but come insurance renewal time the number of insurers that will cover the vehicle will be less and most likely will cost more.

Personally i would find a local body shop or two that are approved by your insurer. Get some quotes so you know where you stand and then make the decision on private deal with the 3rd party or via your insurer.


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[Onelasttime]

I was heading towards the insurance claim route but I've got a couple more questions.

If I go down the claim route how long does it usually take to assess and repair if they decide it's viable?

And if they decide it's a write-off, how much do I have to pay to get it back? Seems weird to have to buy your own car back? Do they effectively impound it? How does it work?

We're going on holiday in the last two weeks of August and I need the car. We can't use the other banger as it's only really fit for short local journey's and wouldn't fit us all in for a two-week jaunt.


TIA

[Dave+63]

They can assess it within a few days depending how busy they are but usually less than a week.

If they declare it to be a write off, they’ll asses it’s value to them and offer a buy back figure which you can accept or decline. The reason that you have to effectively buy it back is because your insurance osh off is the insurance company buying your vehicle at the pre accident value. They then become the owner of the vehicle.

Should you choose to keep the vehicle, you’ll receive a payout of the difference between the agreed pre accident value and the buy back price.

[jacinabox]

Not sure that a non-fault accident will cause an increase in premiums for all insurers.

I had a car written off in February which was assessed by my insurer as a non-fault accident.
With 3 cars to re-insure in June this year I was braced for some sort of increase. NFU, General Accident & Churchill didn't load my premiums...in fact NFU were £130 cheaper than last year for a motorhome, Smart car & trailer combination.

All were aware of the accident and I spoke to all 3 of them before renewal, all 3 wanted to know why I thought I should expect an increase!

Perhaps the OP should contact his insurer to ask if there will be any impact on future premiums if he should go down the route of a non-fault claim?

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[Onelasttime]

I think I need to forget about the insurance for now.

I just checked my policy and for some reason that I can't fathom the car's value has been determined at £1450. How on earth this happened I don't know. Must have been an automated value that I missed when renewing. Autotrader has it as £1750 so not wildly different, and yet asking prices seem to be £3-4k+? The vagaries of the current used car market.

Anyway, this now leaves me with the option of receiving £1200 after excess, or possibly paying more to buy the car back?

I'll go to a local garage next week and get some prices for repair. I've found a new boot door in the same colour for £120 on eBay so this might be a better way.

I can't believe some of the prices being asked for 8-10-year-old hatchbacks like Seat Leons and Mazda 3s with 70-80,000 miles on the clock. Seems to be about £2k more than when I was last looking 2 years ago.

[Saint-Just]

I think I need to forget about the insurance for now.

I just checked my policy and for some reason that I can't fathom the car's value has been determined at £1450. How on earth this happened I don't know. Must have been an automated value that I missed when renewing. Autotrader has it as £1750 so not wildly different, and yet asking prices seem to be £3-4k+? The vagaries of the current used car market.

Anyway, this now leaves me with the option of receiving £1200 after excess, or possibly paying more to buy the car back?

I'll go to a local garage next week and get some prices for repair. I've found a new boot door in the same colour for £120 on eBay so this might be a better way.

I can't believe some of the prices being asked for 8-10-year-old hatchbacks like Seat Leons and Mazda 3s with 70-80,000 miles on the clock. Seems to be about £2k more than when I was last looking 2 years ago.

Sounds a decent option but FWIW I have never heard of a negative buy back, i.e. a buy back value that would exceed the pre-accident value. Also, bear in mind that the other driver may decide to go through his insurance (front damage can be even more costly) and therefore your insurer would know about the accident this way.

[Velvetsnow]

I would have a guess that the buy back will be in the regional of a few hundred pounds.

I would also expect to receive the full value of the car, not less the excess as your insurance company will be claiming of the offending party's insurance.

I'd check the policy details for reference to a market value. Might be some wiggle room there with an assessor.

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[Onelasttime]

I would have a guess that the buy back will be in the regional of a few hundred pounds.

I would also expect to receive the full value of the car, not less the excess as your insurance company will be claiming of the offending party's insurance.

I'd check the policy details for reference to a market value. Might be some wiggle room there with an assessor.

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But if I do a buy back I'll then have trouble insuring it won't I? It will probably be Cat N.

I'm trying so hard not to shoot myself in the foot and end up worse off than if I just got on with life and drove a car with a boot dent. Jesus!

[Dave+63]

His insurance company have a duty to return you to your pre accident position.

You can tell them that you want the car repairing and they will be obliged to do that. It may be cheaper for them and more lucrative for you to have the car written off but you are entitled to have the car repaired if it is possible.

[Christian]

I don’t understand the talk of excess. If the third party is proven to be at fault don’t your insurers then chase the third party insurers for the excess you had to pay? I thought this was what motor legal protection was for?

[Onelasttime]

His insurance company have a duty to return you to your pre accident position.

You can tell them that you want the car repairing and they will be obliged to do that. It may be cheaper for them and more lucrative for you to have the car written off but you are entitled to have the car repaired if it is possible.

OK. Useful info, thanks.

I'm mentioning excess because I've never done this before but yes, if it's his insurer paying then there is no excess.

Decsions, decisions. If I didn't need the car in two weeks… grrrr

[Captain Morgan]

Sounds a decent option but FWIW I have never heard of a negative buy back, i.e. a buy back value that would exceed the pre-accident value. Also, bear in mind that the other driver may decide to go through his insurance (front damage can be even more costly) and therefore your insurer would know about the accident this way.

I was going to post similar but didn’t want to sound negative.

My worry would be the same, most if not all insurance policies require you to inform your insurer of an accident irrespective of your intention to claim, this is to make them aware, it’s entirely possible the person who ran into you could claim you reversed into them, etc. You should should also declare the accident when renewing for similar reasons, should you need to claim for something & they search the database & find a claim on the 3rd party relating to you that hasn’t been declared it can get messy.

His insurance company have a duty to return you to your pre accident position.

You can tell them that you want the car repairing and they will be obliged to do that. It may be cheaper for them and more lucrative for you to have the car written off but you are entitled to have the car repaired if it is possible.

Not true unfortunately, if the claim is deemed uneconomic they can refuse repair and offer a settlement to write the car off.

[Linocut]

It does look sh&t and needs fixing.
We all pay for car insurance but we’re frightened to use it!

A lot of people will say, “get a quote and ask the other driver to pay cash” and that might work fine, but then I can hear him now…”how much?? For a 2009 Mazda with a load of damage anyway? Let me get my mate to sort it…”

Just claim on the insurance you pay for, or your just throwing away the money. You won’t get an increase after an accident like that.


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[Onelasttime]

Just got off the phone with the insurers.

All details taken, repairers and courtesy car people will be in touch so I won't be without a car while it's being assessed, and they have the guy's insurance details so the ball is rolling.

Fingers crossed it all works out.

[Christian]

I'm mentioning excess because I've never done this before but yes, if it's his insurer paying then there is no excess.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I don’t think that is true in all cases. If his insurance company admit liability and volunteer to take care of everything, then you don’t need to worry about excess because your insurers wash their hands of it. But even if liability is admitted, if your insurance is used and then they subsequently put the claim to the third party insurance you still have to pay your excess and file a claim for that excess from the third party insurance. This is where motor legal insurance is needed otherwise you have to pay legal fees and add that to the excess claim.

[Kingstepper]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I don’t think that is true in all cases. If his insurance company admit liability and volunteer to take care of everything, then you don’t need to worry about excess because your insurers wash their hands of it. But even if liability is admitted, if your insurance is used and then they subsequently put the claim to the third party insurance you still have to pay your excess and file a claim for that excess from the third party insurance. This is where motor legal insurance is needed otherwise you have to pay legal fees and add that to the excess claim.

Crazy way of working - why doesn’ the other insurer just pay your excess when requested? Legal fees (what for?) and legal insurance just making work and increasing our premiums.

[Onelasttime]

Crazy way of working - why doesn’ the other insurer just pay your excess when requested? Legal fees (what for?) and legal insurance just making work and increasing our premiums.

My insurer told me that the excess would be paid by the 3rd party insurer.

[wileeeeeey]

My insurer told me that the excess would be paid by the 3rd party insurer.

That's my understanding too. You only pay excess if you're making the claim.

Claiming from a third party's insurer is nothing to do with you and your own policy so is down to the third party's cover.

Same as not ticking hire car and getting one. You won't get one if you claim off yours but you will if you claim off theirs.

[thegreatdogwood]

My insurer told me that the excess would be paid by the 3rd party insurer.

It will but did you ask them if your premium will still be effected upon renewal for using your them to manage the claim rather than dealing with the other parties insurer direct?

[Onelasttime]

It will but did you ask them if your premium will still be effected upon renewal for using your them to manage the claim rather than dealing with the other parties insurer direct?

How do you deal with their insurer direct? How would I have got that information?

My insurer has access to the database so finds their insurer and knocks it over to them. I was told it won't affect my NCB but not sure on premiums. As others have said, it shouldn't affect it too badly.

[thegreatdogwood]

How do you deal with their insurer direct? How would I have got that information?

My insurer has access to the database so finds their insurer and knocks it over to them. I was told it won't affect my NCB but not sure on premiums. As others have said, it shouldn't affect it too badly.

The other driver should have provided you with his insurance details and is also legally obliged to report the incident to his insurer. Even if he has not given his details there are copious websites which for a search costing about £4 will give you his insurers details and when you make the application, that insurer is automatically notified that you have been provided their details.

Most have a dedicated claims line for parties that wish to claim against their clients. You call, and tell them that you have suffered damage from their insured and assume they have already been notified. If they have not, they will contact their insured to ask if an incident occurred and remind them that the insurance cover can be deemed to be withdrawn if they withhold facts. As soon as the other insurer has confirmation from their client that they are at fault they will be super helpful getting things fixed as it suits them. They will offer one of their approved repairers as a fast-track but if you aren't comfortable with the choices they will invite you to submit your own quote and will simply say that it may take a little longer as they need their own assessor to validate the price claimed is fair.

It really is very simple and you always have the option of passing it back to your own insurer to handle if you feel the other side are not co-operating, either in terms of accepting liability or making a sensible offer to resolve. I would always follow this route first, most insurers realise that the cost of claim is substantially reduced dealing direct vs all the "add-ons" another insurer will add to the claim for processing it, so they generally bend over backwards to be helpful which includes high quality repairers with workmanship guarantees.

[Mj2k]

Am hoping what I’ve read about no increase in a no fault claim as a van brushed my rear bumper squeezing through on a roundabout. Once I chased him down, he & the company have been fantastic and professional, full liability etc.

Just hoping this is the case come my renewal when I mention it to them.


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[Onelasttime]

Any idea how long it should take for a garage to get in touch to talk about assessing the car? It's been a week and so far nothing. The insurance company weren't very helpful when I asked.

I have had 50 emails from Enterprise car hire though –*sign here; don't forget to sign the documents; we're here to help, just sign the form. I'm not signing anything.

We're trying to book a holiday week after next but we need the car so a little bit reluctant to commit to ££££s until I know what's going on. Can I ask insurance to put it all on hold until September?

Wishing I'd never started this now …