As above, we are going to see this property tomorrow morning. It does need a lot of work on the inside to modernise it but it just looks stunning from the outside and is set amongst beautiful grounds.
My nagging concern is doing any upgrades, will we need planning for everything? could you even install double glazing etc, knock down internal walls? Will it end up being a nightmare in the long run.
Just looking at the floor plans, we would want to try extend the kitchen knocking out that wall between the kitchen and living area, and knock a wall on the top floor to make a one of the bedrooms bigger. Need to go see it as might not even be possible to remove those walls.
They already have a few offers but none have been accepted as yet, it has been on the market for about a month, which is fairly long around here with most things being snapped up in a few days. It is very isolated, the nearest village is about a mile away, so wont have much of a community apart from the other residents. We only live a few miles away so we know the area and kids can stay at the same school etc.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properti...hannel=RES_BUY
Nope
As you say any improvement will be subject to approval from both planning / conservation and the landlord.
Not worth the hassle in my opinion
I should imagine service charges / ground rent are a pretty penny as well.
It’s the complete opposite of anywhere I would like to live, a glorified block of flats.
Other opinions may vary
:-)
The particulars state that is is freehold and forms part of a terrace.
The drainage is by way of septic tank.
I suspect that the there will be a service charge to cover the maintenance of the roof, gardens, waste disposal, gardening and insurance. As typical the agents particulars are heavy on pictures but lack essential information.
I would also imagine there may be some restrictions as to use and occupation. I have seen some covenants that restrict the occupation by families, children and pets.
Any alterations will need consents from statutory bodies.
Provided you are have all the information as to liabilities and restrictions, if the price reflects those elements then worth considering.
The very fact that it forms part of a listed building will deter many prospective buyers.
Let head rule heart!
Good luck with your search.
Wow beautiful!
I think something like that you have to go into it knowing it's going to be a potential nightmare.
You probably won't be allowed to make structural changes, anything you can do will be X10 more expensive than you expect.
The fact that you are thinking along these lines suggests it might not be the one for you.
Probably worth seeing(or just knocking on) if you could speak to any neighbors and see what they can tell you.
Good luck
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Looks impressive and is something a bit different from boring cul de sac options. I'd be tempted to have a look but the service charge may deter me from proceeding. I don't like that such charges are variable and they only go one way costs wise.
As others have said, you're already talking about undertaking changes to the building but I'd imagine if there were ever a property where that was restricted it'd be this one. Do let us know how it goes.
Aside from the planning issues, my worry would be that it doesn't look very well maintained. The second photo shows elements that clearly haven't seen painted for ages and plants growing out of the gutter and stonework. That could be due to the previous owner not keeping it tidy but it could also be the management company spending the bare minimum on upkeep.
Thanks for your comments, I will ask a lot of questions tomorrow when we go see it. They do mention a £65 per month service charge but will check for any other charges that we would have to pay.
Personally its seems priced very high for the long line of potential issues, but I could see with a lot of decoration and modernising it could be a fantastic home, it has so much space inside and out, but is a mid terrace. Will need to spend a good chunk of money doing it all up, but its liveable now so we can do things over time.
Will know more tomorrow, but think once we get past the stunning nature of the property it could be a no.
In my experience (12 months of looking) you'll know at the first viewing if it's a winner or not. Nothing lies like a picture and I've visited some properties where I felt like the EA may have infringed some trades description laws.Originally Posted by NikGixer750
I do like the idea of buying something that you can move into but that has significant scope for improvement (and thus capital growth) that can be done over time. This is why I settled on the one I did recently. Good luck!
Grade2 listing is restrictive and expensive, there's no getting around it.
A £65 service charge is not going to cover any repairs beyond gutter cleaning level of maintenance and by the photos not even that's been done regularly. I'd want a full survey done and even then it is likely that something unexpected will come up and cost a small fortune to fix. As far as renovations go, if you;ve done an old house before you know that it all looks easy until you actually start to take wallpaper/plaster off and take upthe carpets - there's always a bodge somewhere and a lot will depend on the quality of the company that did the initial conversions....
I'd also do as much investigation as you can about your fellow residents. Are your children the only younger people there and going to have to tiptoe around?
It would be a no from me unless I was 100% certain - any doubt and stay away.
Usually I believe that Grade II only deals with the exterior appearance so any work that could affect it would need to be approved. Double glazing is probably a "no".
However I am not sure it would reduce your ability to modify the interior layout (as evidenced by the kitchen and the bathrooms), but I would strongly advise you to ask a qualified architect before you consider making an offer.
You may also want to see what the other owners have done, and what required approval -and what was refused.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 15th July 2022 at 11:23.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
If you’re happy with the layout - lot of bedrooms but if you can repurpose w/o structural work why not?
If freehold and everything is sound shouldn’t be lot of expense except perhaps upkeep if grounds - consider it a posh terrace!
Edit:- Obviously wasn’t originally built like this so don’t see why even structural modifications are out of the question.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 15th July 2022 at 11:27.
That is the basic charge for admin. Add the following:
- Block insurance
- Grounds maintenance
- Common areas cleaning
- Lighting - common areas (electricity and maintenance)
- Drain cleaning
- Sceptic Tank pump-out etc
- Bin - cleaning
The maint co will often surcharge 10% on all the above, and any subcontractor work.
'Tip of the iceberg' springs to mind.
It used to be exterior only Marc, interior was covered by grade 1. Over time however, more internal control has been added to grade 2 so you can’t really do anything now without approval.
Cheers for that. I wouldn't touch any graded property anyway, but I would not be too concerned in the above case because the transformation that have already been done make any further non structural modification very likely to go through like a breeze (famous last words)
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Won’t much of that he covered by service charge.
Bin-cleaning can pay for in any area.
Septic emptying - upside there will be no sewerage charge.
Thanks again, love this forum, even random questions like this get amazing replies and information.
Are you sure about that? My understanding is that it entirely depends on the exact wording of the Listing. I've even heard of one listed building where the owner wanted to replace some polystyrene ceiling tiles with correct period tiles, and were refused permission because the polystyrene tiles had been mentioned within the listing.
Being situated within a Conservation Area is purely about the exterior appearance of the building.
(Source: we live in a Grade 2* building which is also in a Conservation Area).
Best advice I can give the OP is to go and talk to the planning department in the local council. In my experience, they are normally willing to give an informal view as to what they would, and would not, deem acceptable.
I'll be very surprised if it is anything more than their basic admin for services. The list I made is just a typical list of items which appear on a 'factoring' invoice. What must also be recognised - is that you may be stuck with one Management Co, who may not shop around for best prices for services.
Even if this is not going to be the one: you have great taste, sir!
Spot on. We had a listed building in NW Wiltshire, the local Listed Buildings officer was a real ball breaker. Yet our mate who lived in South Wiltshire had no problems at all with his officer. Some are far more zealous than others
Even if it is going to be a load of hassle I'd still do it as it looks awesome! What a stunning building.
If you're having doubts I'd walk away now, because if you go and see it, I suspect your heart will take over and you'll want to buy it no matter what - it's absolutely stunning!
The more I look at this, the more I love it! Good advice to try to check out the neighbours.
I certainly wouldn’t rule it out (or in as it happens) until you’ve seen it, asked lots of questions and really done your own due diligence.
I think the most important thing to consider is a possible long term one - when you come to sell it. The questions you’re now asking are what people in the future may well ask, so you may well rule out a number of potential buyers. For example our home is upstairs/downstairs, reverse living, as we have fantastic views. We knew when we bought it that X number of people wouldn’t want that type of house if we came to sell. For us it was totally worth it.
Management Committee Monthly Charge : £65 pcm
“Committee “ suggests residents one as opposed to an outside one.As an aside great looking property.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
You also need to consider what if the building needs a new roof?!
That is absolutely beautiful. Don’t think I believe £65 is accurate, a place like that isn’t cheap to live in, freehold or not.
I wouldn’t rule it in or out based on the listed status. If you’re happy with it as is go it’s great but if you want to do a George Clarke and knock down walls probably not.
I worked with some recently who has been trying to sell their flat in a similar set up for over a year!
3k a year maintenance iirc he said.
BUT just like yours its stunning!!! I have seen many around the New Forest area and they can make fantastic homes!! especially if they have lovely grounds to use also. With working from home now the norm for alot of people it does seem inviting to essentially live in a mansion fit for a Tory Lord.
with what I said above regarding the lengthy time they can be on the market for, if interested start low!!!
when spending so much this is crucial. I just bought on a small new build estate and after stopping a retired couple out on their afternoon walk for a great chat I put a offer in and secured the house about 30 min later. Granted I could of stopped a couple of nutters but I knew it was the place for me I just needed some local intel.
Something to check on in the Deeds - is the apportionment of roofing and building repairs. Sometimes it is proportional to the floor area of each flat, sometimes it is equal burden.
Same goes for guttering.
I drove to the front last night and it is stunning, its a 1 ish mile track to the house, winding down beautiful countryside, then you go past huge stone gate posts and up to the house. The whole experience was like something out of a movie.
Good shout about the roof, that never crossed my mind,
... or the 'drive' needs repair. It looks like the whole road between the A162 and Kirby Wharfe is part of the estate; what would you be viable for?
I'd aslo point out that while parts of the estate are Grade II, the building itself is Grade II* https://historicengland.org.uk/listi...-entry/1168029
You find this page useful https://www.portico.com/blog/vendor-...sted-buildings
I wouldn't personally buy the place - it feels somewhat like buying an old Ferrarri with patchy service history, and hoping it will be OK.
Just my tuppence-worth:
1. You have to read the Grade II listing to see what it covers. It may be internal or external.
2. You may find yourself restricted in what you can do in planning terms to the other parts of the building if they have a material impact on the listed parts
3. Some local authorities are more reasonable than others. I know of one (for example) that requires you to apply for planning permission even if you are repainting external parts with the same type of paint and in the same colour as existing. Madness…
4. Don’t expect the local authority to give you much informal “forward guidance” as to what you can or cannot do. They are notoriously shy at committing themselves.
5. There will almost certainly also be restrictions between yourself and the freeholder of the rest of the mansion/management company/other owners as to what you/they can or cannot do.
6. Expect those to be tight. E.g it is very likely you will require the consent of one or more of them to any structural or external alteration. You may also need it for others.
7. £65 per month as a service charge is far too low particularly for a building that sort. Either there are many extras on top you’ll have to pay for. Or worse that really is the figure, in which case almost I’d expect the necessary maintenance isn’t being done. Ask to see the last service charge demand.
Best of luck.
My mother recently made an offer on a grade 2 listed cottage and the full survey made pretty grim reading but was apparently ‘above average condition for this type of property’. Small things like ‘there are possibly no lintels which is common for this age of building’ would dissuade me from making any structural changes to the layout of such a place, and the internal and external structure was subject to the listing. I used to gaze longingly at beautiful little cottages up here in North Norfolk, like I did with classic cars until I realised the money, time and effort required to own either. So I’ve joined the National trust for my old house fix, and admire classic car owners for keeping mobile works of art on the road - but I won’t be spending any money on either!!
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I live in a grade 2b listed georgian building and before things sound negative, i love it, i walk down the stairs and giggle because it always feels like people like me shouldn't be allowed to live in places like this
things to consider:-
Any planning will have to go through the conservation officer, they have the power to approve or reject, they are not consistent and will make recommendations which fly in the face of common sense and even expert groups like the georgian society, but they are increasingly being stretched and being pressured to be more reasonable- this kind of comes to your question about double glazing, the short answer is no but you can fit secondary and there is growing pressure on the conservation officers to make the properties liveable in, the concept of freezing a building which has evolved over time at the moment it was listed is clearly nonsense. If you become serious about it, i've found pay for a pre pre planning meeting ( it;s like £150) to bounce ideas of the conservation officer really really useful, but be aware if they move their replacement may have a different opinion. I do suspect that you may also have a battle with the residents committee
If you buy it be aware that it's been done by a property developer, their job is to make money and not to do what is best, you'll find almost certainly where they have cut corners to make it look good in photos- the obvious comment is that the front may look impressive but the layout is weird because it used to be half in one side of the house half in the other. Basically it's a bit of a bodge, rather then two bigger properties that worked within the existing plan, they've made 3 and this is the middle one, it's why it has the weirdness with floor levels filled in connecting corridors etc, the key will be all the bits they haven't photographed- they will drive you crazy
If you buy it and want to change it, it will cost you more and much much, which may not be appreciated by the next owner, but then with listed properties you don;t own them, you just look after them
How do you get out when it snows? All well and good living somewhere isolated but it does have drawbacks.
Once you look beyond the novelty value of living in (part of) a stately home, does the logic really add up?
Could be a serious mismatch between perception and reality.
To put the £65 monthly management fee in context, I run a management company for a large townhouse with 3 flats - we charge £60 per flat a month. That fee covers the buildings insurance, 2 x fire alarm tests, accountants and communal hall electricity, we have a very small amount left over but that money wouldn't allow for repairs and renovations. We are thinking of putting the monthly fee up as costs have risen quite a bit over the last few years especially buildings insurance.
I work in Planning, our Conservation Officer is a real stickler. Good luck with it if you go for it! Eyes wide open.
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Interesting history: https://www.parksandgardens.org/places/grimston-park
Is the price top endy? https://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-price...ton-park/?pn=3
Picture 7 what's behind the wardrobe, given the wall above it doesn't seem to match behind it? Please keep the carpeted sunken bath (picture 17) although is that a strip light above it?Where does one keep one's car, lawnmover etc?
Freehold (I presume a share of the freehold) so would changes have to go through the Freeholders committee for added pain?
I thought the name was familiar, perhaps buy as well to keep the bikes in? https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de...f04e56c699586b
Enjoy looking, good luck.
Pulling six random numbers out of a hat is more reliable than the Zoopla valuation.
Sherburn in Elmett under five miles away; do they still have Wednesday bike meets at Squires cafe?
Is Squires Cafe still there?
Last edited by Dave+63; 15th July 2022 at 19:18.
Yes it’s still there, ironically I rode a bike for many years further north and always wanted to go to squires, moved here had no idea it was only a few miles away! Only found out a few years after selling my motorbike.
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We live in a converted grade 2 building and there are things to consider. As others have said it depends on why the building was listed; we can do internal changes but can’t remove walls change doorways etc. as the buildings architect was the reason for its listing. It is great to live in a home with history, quirkiness and different to your norm but be wary as when things go wrong they are very expensive as you must make all repairs in keeping with the original construction.
Good luck with your decision
Is it a flat - if ground to top, why different to a terraced house - only responsible for roof above own house?
We went this morning to see it, it was nice, but strangely lacked character inside, all the original walls have been covered up. The rooms were all massive, but the biggest issue is firstly the garden is very small, the garden shown in the pictures is actually mostly the neighbours. The bigger issue is you have no legal access to the garden! Apart from climbing out a big window out of the front room! The estate agent was very cagey with information, I can’t see us getting planning to change the window into a door.
We spoke to a neighbour who loved living in the area, she only pays £65 nothing else, the main house is still the original families and they take care of the lands around.
At £550k I can’t see anyone buying it, maybe around £400 would be worth a shot.
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Managing agents are legally obliged to demonstrate that they've sought best value, and service charges can be challenged if they're unreasonable. There may even be a management company made up of owners within the development, so it's not all as bad as you make out.
Yeah even I'd have a punt on that.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Always good to take a step back and soak in the details that aren't shown (or are unable to be shown) in the sales ad.
Apart from that: you must have gathered tons of info and food for thoughts with this thread.
Depending on when you were there last. The cafe moved years ago from the town to a pub a few miles outside the town where the meets are now. Always police around to slow folk down but it doesn’t stop them and there’s still quite a few accidents.
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https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/61971770/
3 bed just added at £455k similar character removal type conversion, presume all done at the same time.
Shame didn't work out, but as you said in the OP needed to see in the flesh to get the feel for it, or perhaps a wooden slide out the window into the garden?
Ah! I know in Scotland as well as England - there were horror stories only a few years back. I believe in England that you may be hooked into a particular management company for the first few years of 'management' though?
I had a flat in Edinburgh which was factored by a company who did indeed start up by managing their own block of flats in response to poor factoring - then progressed from their.
Some Factors/Management Cos can still charge like a wounded buffalo, though
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