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Thread: Mercedes having a laugh?

  1. #1
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Mercedes having a laugh?

    My E350 was in having its front airbags replaced (factory recall) and Mercedes did a full inspection.

    One of the points highlighted was “corrosion on the brake hoses which could cause a future MOT failure”.

    I was intrigued given the car had just had a B Service and none of the issues pointed out by Mercedes had been identified previously so I asked how much it would cost to replace them …..

    They quoted £1750 + VAT (with an applied 40% discount) for the 4 short pipes. When I joked whether they would be making them, the answer was Yes, because Mercedes send a length of tube and 8 connectors and the garage would need to fabricate them. Once I got home I went online and found numerous braided stainless steel brake hoses available from performance companies including Girling for about £100. I also checked the hoses myself and once I had applied a bit a brake cleaner and removed the dirt I couldn’t find any corrosion. I did however not that the passivated finish on the connectors had tarnished.

    Is this Mercedes being ultra conservative or is this attempt to screw its customers?

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  2. #2
    Main Dealer

    Profit maker

  3. #3
    Master
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    Sounds like deception

  4. #4
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    Absolutely a attempt to screw you over, I’ve had similar experiences with VW, their ‘complimentary health check’ is their opportunity to invent issues that aren’t there.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  5. #5
    Master Scrubnut's Avatar
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    This is one reason I wont buy a Mercedes. Banditry

  6. #6
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    Whenever they have to do recall work it costs them money so they will always try to recoup it some other way. Most manufacturers would do similar and they would often find a ‘fault’ with the brake system as a lot of people would not want to take a chance. My AClass is due to go in for the same recall soon so I’ll let you know if they also find a fault with my brakes.

    If there’s a genuine fault then it would be highlighted at an MOT long before they needed replacing.

  7. #7
    Garages, owned by people or companies, pay a huge amount to the UK parent company to have the branding and Main Dealer status.
    Their interest isn't you or your satisfaction.
    It's profit.
    They have to refurb the dealerships every 5 years or so, they have to pay for all the flashy lights and free coffee.
    They make huge profits from pre-authorised (nobody checking) warranty work.
    They rely on most car owners not knowing enough to doubt or question the "work"

    Avoid.

    Find a garage that exists on its reputation, not its branding.

  8. #8
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    Recently changed from BMW where I used main dealer for warranty work but specialist for anything else. https://www.brystone.co.uk/

    Just moved to Mercedes and already found dealer to be somewhat lacking and prices that take breath way, fortunately also found a local Mercedes specialist. https://www.pentanglemb.co.uk/

    Both these independent specialists are run by ex-manufacturer franchise technicians, are on the BMW/Mercedes systems and all their work is accepted as valid under any warranty requirements.

    Re the BMW one I sold my car to the local BMW dealer and they were able to still sell it as approved used with the (albeit it very minor) Brystone work.

  9. #9
    Mine’s in on Friday for a recall, apparently they need to check the bonding on the carbon fibre propshaft, but it’s ok to drive it unchecked !

  10. #10
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birchgra View Post
    Whenever they have to do recall work it costs them money so they will always try to recoup it some other way. Most manufacturers would do similar and they would often find a ‘fault’ with the brake system as a lot of people would not want to take a chance. My AClass is due to go in for the same recall soon so I’ll let you know if they also find a fault with my brakes.

    If there’s a genuine fault then it would be highlighted at an MOT long before they needed replacing.

    ^^^ this exactly ^^^

  11. #11
    Intrigued to know how they’ll fabricate brake hoses out of a length of tube.

  12. #12
    You should have asked them for a picture. Did they really mean hoses? Surely the flexi hoses going to the calipers are rubber or rubber sheathed? Or do they mean the fixed brake lines that the flexi hoses follow off?

  13. #13
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Its possible they are not referring to the 'flexi's' that connect to caliper then join to the braking system at the strut / inner wing..

    they could be talking about the copper pipe work which runs prior to the flexi's then into the ABS block ?

    making up brake pipes is a PITA with flaring tools and involves templating from what corroded or damaged pipes you have removed

    That said its nowhere near that kind of money to do such a job

    If it is just replacing flexi's (off shelf items) then bleeding system - yes they are taking the Pee
    Last edited by TKH; 3rd July 2022 at 16:41.

  14. #14
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    Corroded brake lines are a known ‘issue’ on some mercs. That said I only use an independent specialist for mine and they are great (autoclass in Milton Keynes if you are nearby)
    1700 is insane.

  15. #15
    Whilst i don't know what kind of job brake pipes are on a 350 I'm guessing they're no walk in the park as with most brake pipes. They're generally wrapped around the suspension behind covers or even the fuel tank. So whilst £1700 is a huge amount of money given main dealers labour rates it could be legit…..not all main dealers are shysters.

  16. #16
    The joys of expensive cars, they would probably charge you a fortune just for a mirror or bulb.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    The joys of expensive cars, they would probably charge you a fortune just for a mirror or bulb.
    Some of the latest MB cars have to have the whole headlamp cluster replaced I think. At a cost of £1000s

  18. #18
    Master
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    About 5-6 years ago I went in to the back of a brand new Mercedes on my off road bike - the high mudguard very slightly cracked the rear light cluster.
    Although it was my fault - the lady driving pulled out of a junction, I was behind her, I looked right as she went just to check for any traffic - there was none but for some unknown reason she just stopped - dink
    If I recall correctly the cluster was between £500 and £550

  19. #19
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    What did the brake pedal feel like once you run it up&down the drive a few times?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    About 5-6 years ago I went in to the back of a brand new Mercedes on my off road bike - the high mudguard very slightly cracked the rear light cluster.
    Although it was my fault - the lady driving pulled out of a junction, I was behind her, I looked right as she went just to check for any traffic - there was none but for some unknown reason she just stopped - dink
    If I recall correctly the cluster was between £500 and £550
    You should see how much all of the manufacturers charge for door mirrors £1000 is nothing

  21. #21
    Craftsman TAG0001's Avatar
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    I has exactly this advisory on my Merc (see below)

    Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):

    Offside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c))

    My local back street garage fixed it with a quick rub down and re grease. Cost £10 and £10 for their Christmas fund.

    It's not come up on the next 2 mot checks since.

    Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    A friend who was head of aftersales department at Renault Netherlands in the late '90s, told me then that the manufacturer only set a 'base price' for a part. 'Countries' were free to charge what they want for parts, provided it was the 'base price' or more. Parts that were easily damaged are always overpriced for a good profit.

    Later, with the development of the internet and online purchases, the prices were more or less leveled in all countries.

  23. #23
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    Don't think it's just Mercedes to be fair as already stated the dealers are always well over what things should cost and they play on the perceived safety in using the dealers.

    It's all codswallop, they are in it to maximise profits, period.

  24. #24
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    I had a E class estate for 4 years. It failed it's MOT on the rear brakes pipes being excessively corroded.

    The dealer is referring to the copper / cunifer rigid brake pipes that the attach to the flexis.

    From memory it cost me circa £250 to have the lines replaced front to back.

    £1700 is daylight robbery! As another poster pointed out, this is a known issue on mercs.

    Does yours have rear air suspension? If it does and you start to see the car sagging after being parked, it is typically the rigid plastic air pipes splitting. The parts are cheap but it's another job that is circa £150 to sort. Much easier to do than brake pipes as they are push fit connectors. I'd get them done at the same time as the brake pipes as preventative maintenance. If they start leaking it can lead to the suspension air compressor burning out. Worst case scenario, if all pressure is lost the car will be not be able to be driven!

    The joys of Merc ownership. In fairness, all cars seem to have their fair share of issues and challenges

    Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    The joys of expensive cars, they would probably charge you a fortune just for a mirror or bulb.
    This from 10 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    The driver’s door mirror on my Mercedes was becoming discoloured and I was advised that it would be a fail for the forthcoming MOT. When I visited the MB agent in Plymouth to pick up another item I enquired as to the cost of replacing the faulty glass...

    “£350 plus VAT, Sir.”

    “WHAT, I didn’t mean the whole assembly, just the glass!”

    “That is just the glass, Sir: it’s photo-chromatic on the driver’s side.”

    “Erm, can I order the passenger door glass for a LHD car - I assume that’s non photo-chomatic?”

    “Ah, good thinking, Sir: you can and that’s less of course...... £150 plus VAT.”

    R

    (Halfords: special order, £16.50 inc VAT) :thumbup:
    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  26. #26
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    I am surprised why anyone would buy a German car in this day and age. They are no longer up at the top of the reliability tables, the entire industry is geared up to screw the customer, EU member or not and the recent VW scandal over diesel emissions confirmed that they just lie through their teeth to cover up a massive illegal deception.

    Japanese cars are more reliable, nothing goes wrong and the annual service is dirt cheap.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Lexus is the only mainstream Japanese luxury car. It's wonderfully reliable but rather bland in styling and - how shall I put it- rather plain to drive.
    Other than that, you have Volvo, Jaguar, MB and BMW. End of. Of course, if that level of "luxury" is not on your requirements list, the offer is plentiful. But by definition people who buy those German cars do it for a reason.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  28. #28
    Master KavKav's Avatar
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    I had a 1990 Mercedes C240 Estate with the superb Tiptronic auto gearbox, I ran it for 10 years without any problem and when I sold it, the exhaust was the original one. In my mind, the tail end of the 90’s was when the Mercedes build quality started dropping off (As the beancounters started having more sway than the engineers) and I did not replace it with another Merc just for that reason. It was a great old barge but it was my first and last Mercedes.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Lexus is the only mainstream Japanese luxury car. It's wonderfully reliable but rather bland in styling and - how shall I put it- rather plain to drive.
    Other than that, you have Volvo, Jaguar, MB and BMW. End of. Of course, if that level of "luxury" is not on your requirements list, the offer is plentiful. But by definition people who buy those German cars do it for a reason.
    I agree with a lot of you say. I ran Jaguars for 22 years until I took early retirement. I decided to sell the Jag and buy a Honda Civic which does have the perception of being reliable but dull. I would accept that the Civic is indeed dull but they are just so reliable you forgive the dullness. Possibly that comes with getting older when sex on wheels is of lesser importance.

    If you want sex on wheels, then buy a BMW or a Mercedes but you will have a good chance of unreliability, you will be screwed royal on services and can expect that they may try to deceive you over anything because it's in their culture. £1700.00 for fitting brake pipes is evidence of that.

  30. #30
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I agree with a lot of you say. I ran Jaguars for 22 years until I took early retirement. I decided to sell the Jag and buy a Honda Civic which does have the perception of being reliable but dull. I would accept that the Civic is indeed dull but they are just so reliable you forgive the dullness. Possibly that comes with getting older when sex on wheels is of lesser importance.

    If you want sex on wheels, then buy a BMW or a Mercedes but you will have a good chance of unreliability, you will be screwed royal on services and can expect that they may try to deceive you over anything because it's in their culture. £1700.00 for fitting brake pipes is evidence of that.
    You are mistaking AD service with unreliability. We have 2 Beemers, the convertible is 08 and getting close to 200k, the other a 13 at 100k. Both in our ownership for several years, both serviced by independent specialist with reasonable hourly rate and willing to consider reconditioned parts when justifiable. Our car budget may be greater than with a Civic but not in a different league, and driving once or twice a year to SW France is comfortable for driver, passengers (including the dog) and all their luggage (16 yo daughter, I'll say no more!)
    Security wise, the previous BMW was used by my wife to try and push a lorry off the motorway. The car was totalled but passengers walked out without a bruise, and that is also a consideration.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You are mistaking AD service with unreliability. We have 2 Beemers, the convertible is 08 and getting close to 200k, the other a 13 at 100k. Both in our ownership for several years, both serviced by independent specialist with reasonable hourly rate and willing to consider reconditioned parts when justifiable. Our car budget may be greater than with a Civic but not in a different league, and driving once or twice a year to SW France is comfortable for driver, passengers (including the dog) and all their luggage (16 yo daughter, I'll say no more!)
    Security wise, the previous BMW was used by my wife to try and push a lorry off the motorway. The car was totalled but passengers walked out without a bruise, and that is also a consideration.
    All I am really saying is that according to organisations such as Honest John, the Japanese brands have overtaken the German brands for overall reliability. Where there is some sort of fault, the Japanese will hold their hands up and implement a recall. The Germans don't seem to do this.

    The final reality is nearly all brands are good cars and the quality is at an all time high, however I would trust a Japanese organisation more than I would a German and the £1700.00 quote is just one instance of this.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Lexus is the only mainstream Japanese luxury car. It's wonderfully reliable but rather bland in styling and - how shall I put it- rather plain to drive.
    Other than that, you have Volvo, Jaguar, MB and BMW. End of. Of course, if that level of "luxury" is not on your requirements list, the offer is plentiful. But by definition people who buy those German cars do it for a reason.
    what about Infinity and Acura, just not heavily pushed in the UK

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    making up brake pipes is a PITA with flaring tools and involves templating from what corroded or damaged pipes you have removed



    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Whilst i don't know what kind of job brake pipes are on a 350 I'm guessing they're no walk in the park as with most brake pipes. They're generally wrapped around the suspension behind covers or even the fuel tank. So whilst £1700 is a huge amount of money given main dealers labour rates it could be legit…..not all main dealers are shysters.

    Edd China replaced the brake pipes on a Range Rover, and demonstrates templating and flaring.


  34. #34
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    what about Infinity and Acura, just not heavily pushed in the UK
    Hence the "mainstream"
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  35. #35
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    what about Infinity and Acura, just not heavily pushed in the UK
    Infiniti gave up their retail presence in the UK & Europe in March 2020. See - https://www.infinitiretailgroup.co.uk

    Acura has never had an official UK retail operation (AFAIK).
    ______

    ​Jim.

  36. #36
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Lexus is the only mainstream Japanese luxury car. Other than that, you have Volvo, Jaguar, MB and BMW. End of.
    There is also Acura and Infinti, though not sold in the UK. I think you forgot Audi?

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    All I am really saying is that according to organisations such as Honest John, the Japanese brands have overtaken the German brands for overall reliability. Where there is some sort of fault, the Japanese will hold their hands up and implement a recall. The Germans don't seem to do this.

    The final reality is nearly all brands are good cars and the quality is at an all time high, however I would trust a Japanese organisation more than I would a German and the £1700.00 quote is just one instance of this.
    I thought that the assumption that German cars are more reliable was a product of marketing rather than actual facts, I think you will find that statistically Japanese cars are far more reliable, the German manufacturers have a habit of shooting themselves in both feet by releasing new models too early and then having to recall them.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I agree with a lot of you say. I ran Jaguars for 22 years until I took early retirement.
    My local Jag dealer insisted that I needed a cambelt change on my 2012 XFR when i had it, and that they wouldn't be able to stamp the service book without doing it at a cost of £948, they also argued with me when I pointed out the V8 was a cam chain engine and did not have a belt , I ended up taking it somewhere else who specialises in Jags

    Found similar behaviour from most main dealers over the years

    BMW - Over £1k of extra work including a battery, Sat Nav update, spare wheel canister out of date, air con and wheel alignment (last two had been done recently)

    VW - £800's worth of non warranty repairs at 20,000 miles , none needed according to independent garage

    Lexus - Brake fluid change not covered by service plan and needed after 2 years (Its 3 years first and then every 2 ) they wanted £180 for that !

    They need to upsell and many service advisors get performance related pay on how much additional work they can get authorised, its all part of the game

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liner33 View Post
    They need to upsell and many service advisors get performance related pay on how much additional work they can get authorised, its all part of the game
    This, and it's not exclusive to certain brands.

    The Mrs bought a new Toyota and when left in for it's first service had a wheel alignment done, but no evidence of this such as a before and after print out which you'd usually expect when paying for an alignment.

    2nd yearly service and she said to them to contact her before commencing any additional work, then she got a call saying all was good except she needed a wheel alignment...

    I told her to take it to an independent where they'll check the alignment for free and if it's within spec then go full Karen at Toyota head office, but she's not interested and will just go somewhere else when the lease is up.

  40. #40
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    Bmw charged me over £1300 to change the back plates on an E39, plates were about £15 each but everything else they had to change with labour took the rest. The local Indy said he would have cut and welded them but Bm have to do it by the book.


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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I thought that the assumption that German cars are more reliable was a product of marketing rather than actual facts, I think you will find that statistically Japanese cars are far more reliable, the German manufacturers have a habit of shooting themselves in both feet by releasing new models too early and then having to recall them.
    I think German cars used to be more reliable I had a mk 2 golf gti with 120000 on it that was built out of cast iron was very reliable and if something did break the parts didn’t cost and it didn’t have loads of complex electrics , I later had a 3 year old mk 7 dsg that had done 80000 with loads of expensive things starting to go wrong I wouldn’t have another vw after that

  42. #42
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    Main dealers of any brand are simply not to be trusted, with the brakes are 60% worn to false invoicing for works done, i have a Volvo outside, cabin filter invoiced twice, had a 2007 date on it when i swapped it, car is 2008 model, fuel filter same invoiced at main dealer and again at an indy,filter date back to car manufacture and was blacker than granite when i took it off.

    Pal has a 5.0l jag x351 same storey with air filters, i do wonder what else are they billing for and not doing in the hope the car will be passed onto some one else or out of the dealer network before it gets rumbled.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    My E350 was in having its front airbags replaced (factory recall) and Mercedes did a full inspection.

    One of the points highlighted was “corrosion on the brake hoses which could cause a future MOT failure”.

    I was intrigued given the car had just had a B Service and none of the issues pointed out by Mercedes had been identified previously so I asked how much it would cost to replace them …..

    They quoted £1750 + VAT (with an applied 40% discount) for the 4 short pipes. When I joked whether they would be making them, the answer was Yes, because Mercedes send a length of tube and 8 connectors and the garage would need to fabricate them. Once I got home I went online and found numerous braided stainless steel brake hoses available from performance companies including Girling for about £100. I also checked the hoses myself and once I had applied a bit a brake cleaner and removed the dirt I couldn’t find any corrosion. I did however not that the passivated finish on the connectors had tarnished.

    Is this Mercedes being ultra conservative or is this attempt to screw its customers?
    The latter. From an insider, they are after as much claw back as they can accumulate. Those who say ‘no’ are countered by those that say ‘yes’ with no thought given as to whether the work genuinely needs done or not.

    Well done OP on not being ripped off!

    Jim

  44. #44
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    Genesis are marketing heavily in the uk and look to be very nice ‘Luxo barges’ as they are Hyundai/KIA they will be relentlessly reliable.
    When my Audi was on the back of a low loader after exploding in a cloud of coolant, I asked the driver what the most reliable cars were, without hesitation he said Korean, KIA and Hyundai, a straw poll of 1 I know but the KIA I bought after that cost us nothing except basic servicing, tyres and brakes through 100k miles from new.
    I’ve also run several Lexus and while, they are not ‘ultimate driving machines’ they are lovely places to be and anyone who drives in a manner where that makes a difference is an idiot on todays congested roads.
    While I am currently servicing my desire for a convertible with a Mercedes, I am almost certain my next car will be a Lexus, KIA or Hyundai. I’m hoping that the LC convertible will nosedive in price, but I doubt it.
    Unfortunately Renault have ruined Nissans reputation for reliability and had an I’ll judged relationship with Mercedes for their smaller diesels that also tarnished the brand.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Genesis are marketing heavily in the uk and look to be very nice ‘Luxo barges’ as they are Hyundai/KIA they will be relentlessly reliable.
    When my Audi was on the back of a low loader after exploding in a cloud of coolant, I asked the driver what the most reliable cars were, without hesitation he said Korean, KIA and Hyundai, a straw poll of 1 I know but the KIA I bought after that cost us nothing except basic servicing, tyres and brakes through 100k miles from new.
    I’ve also run several Lexus and while, they are not ‘ultimate driving machines’ they are lovely places to be and anyone who drives in a manner where that makes a difference is an idiot on todays congested roads.
    While I am currently servicing my desire for a convertible with a Mercedes, I am almost certain my next car will be a Lexus, KIA or Hyundai. I’m hoping that the LC convertible will nosedive in price, but I doubt it.
    Unfortunately Renault have ruined Nissans reputation for reliability and had an I’ll judged relationship with Mercedes for their smaller diesels that also tarnished the brand.



  46. #46
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    Whilst you *could* make flexible brake hoses in house, I'm not sure even AD would have that equipment? If they do then why bother buying "genuine" parts? Absolute top quality braided aftermarket hoses for your car would be ~£90 each.

    The rigid pipes are easy to make once you know how. Long runs can be a pain but generally not a problem for a mechanic who's experienced.

    Either way £1750 is taking the proverbial even at main dealer labour rates and if anyone believes that price is after a 40% discount I have a bridge to sell them.

  47. #47
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    Stealership Tic-Tacs I'm afraid. Need to make up profits from not being able to sell new cars due to Lockdown delays, parts and production disruption globally.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Lexus is the only mainstream Japanese luxury car. It's wonderfully reliable but rather bland in styling and - how shall I put it- rather plain to drive.

    Yep, sure looks rather bland in styling and - how shall I put it - rather plain to drive.


  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Genesis are marketing heavily in the uk and look to be very nice ‘Luxo barges’ as they are Hyundai/KIA they will be relentlessly reliable.
    When my Audi was on the back of a low loader after exploding in a cloud of coolant, I asked the driver what the most reliable cars were, without hesitation he said Korean, KIA and Hyundai, a straw poll of 1 I know but the KIA I bought after that cost us nothing except basic servicing, tyres and brakes through 100k miles from new.
    I’ve also run several Lexus and while, they are not ‘ultimate driving machines’ they are lovely places to be and anyone who drives in a manner where that makes a difference is an idiot on todays congested roads.
    While I am currently servicing my desire for a convertible with a Mercedes, I am almost certain my next car will be a Lexus, KIA or Hyundai. I’m hoping that the LC convertible will nosedive in price, but I doubt it.
    Unfortunately Renault have ruined Nissans reputation for reliability and had an I’ll judged relationship with Mercedes for their smaller diesels that also tarnished the brand.
    Seems Genesis is the car of choice for Scottish Open this week.

    A huge number on the roads of North Berwick and Gullane today in prep for the tourney this week. Is it me but do all E cars of this ilk look the same??

    Jim

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