Cost of ownership thoughts

[learningtofly]

I've just renewed my insurance for contents, and once again it's cost me the best part of £1500 for a year's cover as a consequence of my watches (yes, I've shopped around, and no - nobody will do it cheaper). In addition, I've previously had to install (and keep professionally maintained) an alarm and a safe. I now find, both amusingly and annoyingly, that any watches that are high enough in value to be declared have to undergo periodic and documented "clasp and/or fastening inspections".

Given the substantial liability of servicing as well, I think I'm fast reaching the conclusion that the cost of ownership of a relatively valuable watch collection outweighs the benefits - unless, of course, you've been lucky enough to foster a relationship with "your AD" such that you can regularly get your hands on halo models to help balance the books (which I certainly can't). I think the next 12 months may see me bring the numbers/value down quite dramatically.

[ralphy]

What is their criteria as to who does the periodic and documented "clasp and/or fastening inspections"?

R

[learningtofly]

What is their criteria as to who does the periodic and documented "clasp and/or fastening inspections"?

R

On the phone it was along the lines of "authorised dealer or accredited jeweller" - I guess I'll need to read the small print on the policy document.

[mr noble]

Does this mean you might sell that 5513?

[mr noble]

On a serious note. I’m in the same boat. Had the renewal from NFU last week and it’s £1450. I called to ask how much it’d reduce by if I took off my Daytona and Seadweller and amazingly it dropped by over £400.

It’s a shame that the bad people (thieves and burglars) among our communities add such cost and take away the enjoyment for the good people.

[Jdh1]

Mine's about £2,400 and I'm not even covered for everything.

My advice to young folk these days is to only insure what you have to/genuinely can't afford to lose. That's usually just house (buildings) and car. It's a business and over a lifetime, you'll come out in front - probably.

[learningtofly]

Does this mean you might sell that 5513?

That's weird. We're off for a late lunch shortly, and then an evening of Flamenco at Sadler's Wells, and I literally just put it on for the occasion!

On a serious note. I’m in the same boat. Had the renewal from NFU last week and it’s £1450. I called to ask how much it’d reduce by if I took off my Daytona and Seadweller and amazingly it dropped by over £400.

It’s a shame that the bad people (thieves and burglars) among our communities add such cost and take away the enjoyment for the good people.

Yeah, exactly, that.

[ryanb741]

You could rent a deposit box from Metro and for around £25 a month and keep the collection bar what you wear at the current time there.

That would keep costs down a lot

[wileeeeeey]

You could rent a deposit box from Metro and for around £25 a month and keep the collection bar what you wear at the current time there.

That would keep costs down a lot

Unfortunately I was told this was not true for NFU. I was told it was possible but I would need to put a written request in to notify of the change each time and wait for them to reply confirming because I could swap out in metro.

They want the worst case scenario insured. Everything in one go and your safe (or safes) need to be rated for the value of the entire collection.

[Mick P]

I've just renewed my insurance for contents, and once again it's cost me the best part of £1500 for a year's cover as a consequence of my watches (yes, I've shopped around, and no - nobody will do it cheaper). In addition, I've previously had to install (and keep professionally maintained) an alarm and a safe. I now find, both amusingly and annoyingly, that any watches that are high enough in value to be declared have to undergo periodic and documented "clasp and/or fastening inspections".

Given the substantial liability of servicing as well, I think I'm fast reaching the conclusion that the cost of ownership of a relatively valuable watch collection outweighs the benefits - unless, of course, you've been lucky enough to foster a relationship with "your AD" such that you can regularly get your hands on halo models to help balance the books (which I certainly can't). I think the next 12 months may see me bring the numbers/value down quite dramatically.

Wearing a single high value watch is easy, relatively cheap and simple. The moment you start collecting watches you have to start wearing them in rotation, have rules to follow on storage and everything becomes more complicated.

So it's a case of buying just one watch and living with it or collecting several of the things with all the issues and costs that come with it.

The choice is down to us.

[ASW1]

This is why I've tried to keep any watch below £15k as my policy covers up to that amount for an individual watch. My most expensive one was quite a bit north of that RRP but I bought it new for that and have the receipt.

However, on last renewal I did find the overall limits and cost is getting a bit too much and that is a factor in looking to (yet again) reduce my watches, as well as a desire to top up my pension and stop working.

I've started the process and anticipate getting to nothing that requires more than standard cover and most likely I'll be at a point that I won't be bothered if they're insured or not.

Potentially very liberating - until I start buying again...

[adrianw]

I always found NFU bespoke to be fairly relaxed, maybe I’m in for a shock this year

[Scrubnut]

I think the next 12 months may see me bring the numbers/value down quite dramatically.

I did that a while ago. When you add all the various insurance items up, on top of watches; dogs, paintings, bikes, guns etc. It’s a fortune and I got tired of it. Easiest way to reduce it is to moderate the watches.

I had a quote from Hiscox a few years ago. Didn’t know whether to laugh of cry!

[Mj2k]

Wow. I was annoyed when for the same policy Halifax increased if from £400 current year to £600 next year.

Will be calling on Monday to ask what they are thinking. That is with 2 sports Rolex and an 8k engagement ring. Put the Rolex replacements at 10k each as would need to be grey.

Time to shop around i think.

[jukeboxs]

What's brought this about now, Tony? It sounds like your costs have been high for some time (i.e. this year not higher than last).

I've saved a lot by self insuring and only servicing every 5-10 years, but then low risk where I live.

Safety deposit sounds like one solution, especially if you're in London. Although not ideal.

[learningtofly]

Mine's about £2,400 and I'm not even covered for everything.

My advice to young folk these days is to only insure what you have to/genuinely can't afford to lose. That's usually just house (buildings) and car. It's a business and over a lifetime, you'll come out in front - probably.

Blimey, that makes mine look cheap!

You could rent a deposit box from Metro and for around £25 a month and keep the collection bar what you wear at the current time there.

That would keep costs down a lot

Yeah, but SDBs aren't without there [roblems. I also felt very dissociated from my watches last time I used one and ended up selling a load that I regretted later.

Wearing a single high value watch is easy, relatively cheap and simple. The moment you start collecting watches you have to start wearing them in rotation, have rules to follow on storage and everything becomes more complicated.

So it's a case of buying just one watch and living with it or collecting several of the things with all the issues and costs that come with it.

The choice is down to us.

Well, yes - that's pretty much what I was saying.

This is why I've tried to keep any watch below £15k as my policy covers up to that amount for an individual watch. My most expensive one was quite a bit north of that RRP but I bought it new for that and have the receipt.

However, on last renewal I did find the overall limits and cost is getting a bit too much and that is a factor in looking to (yet again) reduce my watches, as well as a desire to top up my pension and stop working.

I've started the process and anticipate getting to nothing that requires more than standard cover and most likely I'll be at a point that I won't be bothered if they're insured or not.

Potentially very liberating - until I start buying again...

Ot helps that I'm preoccupied with other things these days - easier to get out of the buying habit.

I did that a while ago. When you add all the various insurance items up, on top of watches; dogs, paintings, bikes, guns etc. It’s a fortune and I got tired of it. Easiest way to reduce it is to moderate the watches.

I had a quote from Hiscox a few years ago. Didn’t know whether to laugh of cry!

Hiscox pricing is ridiculous. They quoted about £1800 last year, and a similar figure the year before.

Wow. I was annoyed when for the same policy Halifax increased if from £400 current year to £600 next year.

Will be calling on Monday to ask what they are thinking. That is with 2 sports Rolex and an 8k engagement ring. Put the Rolex replacements at 10k each as would need to be grey.

Time to shop around i think.

Percentage-wise that's nuts! Did they give you any kind of justification for the hike?

What's brought this about now, Tony? It sounds like your costs have been high for some time (i.e. this year not higher than last).

I've saved a lot by self insuring and only servicing every 5-10 years, but then low risk where I live.

Safety deposit sounds like one solution, especially if you're in London. Although not ideal.

What annoyed me this year is that it went up yet again, like it has done every bloody year even though I've not claimed on contents insurance since 2006... it just felt like enough is enough! I could have been putting that money aside every year

[daveyw]

I’m with you on the cost of ownership, the worry of damage etc, insurance hassles with clasp inspections etc, it’s not fun. Some watches have become assets and have to be protected.
It does make you think about letting them go sometimes…

[M1011]

Sounds like a right hassle. "clasp and/or fastening inspections" suggests people must be putting in claims for watches dropping off their wrist? Odd, can't say I've ever seen or heard of a clasp/fastening failure, no doubt there will be examples but presumably they must be rare? Ultimately the insurance company can charge what they think is right, but when they start asking you to play silly games with clasp inspections it feels almost like they don't want your business anymore!

[markrlondon]

it feels almost like they don't want your business anymore!

It does rather sound like that, doesn't it.

[DONGinsler]

Safety deposit box

Take out a couple to wear for a couple of weeks, back in box and take out 2 others.

I have a small hidden safe, but as I only have 2 watches. I just keep them in the dresser and not declared for insurance

Not even sure what my insurance covers. House for sure, acts of god (depends on god) and who knows what else

DON

[learningtofly]

Well, I've just done the maths using a Metro Bank SDP and it equates to:

Standard contents insurance with Hiscox, which allows for unlimited cover but anything over £15k (say, a couple of watches) declared: £645

Medium sized safe deposit box with Metro Bank (who appear to have availability 5 minutes walk from home): £360

That means a £400 p.a. saving - not insignificant - in return for a fair bit of hassle when it comes to storing/retrieving/wearing my watches.

Food for thought, but I'm not 100% convinced the answer isn't instead to just keep both individual and aggregated watch values below levels which incur penalty premiums. Anyway, I'll think about it for a few days and then make a decision on the combined approach described above!

[learningtofly]

Sounds like a right hassle. "clasp and/or fastening inspections" suggests people must be putting in claims for watches dropping off their wrist? Odd, can't say I've ever seen or heard of a clasp/fastening failure, no doubt there will be examples but presumably they must be rare? Ultimately the insurance company can charge what they think is right, but when they start asking you to play silly games with clasp inspections it feels almost like they don't want your business anymore!

Agreed, and actually it's clear that - when values rise to beyond average levels - most don't.

[Kingstepper]

Sounds like a right hassle. "clasp and/or fastening inspections" suggests people must be putting in claims for watches dropping off their wrist? Odd, can't say I've ever seen or heard of a clasp/fastening failure, no doubt there will be examples but presumably they must be rare? Ultimately the insurance company can charge what they think is right, but when they start asking you to play silly games with clasp inspections it feels almost like they don't want your business anymore!

Read on here of people claiming for watches just ‘lost’ - not sure if fallen off wrist or misplaced. Then there’s people claiming for dropping them in the shower or wherever…

If insurance only covered genuine theft/robbery not carelessness maybe premiums would be cheaper.

[markrlondon]

Read on here of people claiming for watches just ‘lost’ - not sure if fallen off wrist or misplaced. Then there’s people claiming for dropping them in the shower or wherever…

If insurance only covered genuine theft/robbery not carelessness maybe premiums would be cheaper.

Indeed, they do it with cars so why not watches. Different levels of insurance for difference cost/risk preferences. This would seemingly make a lot of sense and would allow insurers to cost out the risks (e.g. "oh, I just lost it" and "Oh, it just fell of my wrist") they really don't want to carry.

[Passenger]

Isn't it a no brainer, IF/ when you've gotta start thinking about the cost of ownership, then you're likely in the wrong game...Additionally IF a 400 quid p.a. saving looks 'not insignificant' to you, then 'luxury' man jewellery probably shouldn't be your thing in a big way...Maybe I'm being too pragmatic, unemotional, about it though.

[Mick P]

Isn't it a no brainer, IF/ when you've gotta start thinking about the cost of ownership, then you're likely in the wrong game...Additionally IF a 400 quid p.a. saving looks 'not insignificant' to you, then 'luxury' man jewellery probably shouldn't be your thing in a big way...Maybe I'm being too pragmatic, unemotional, about it though.

You are just being sensible. Too many people buy expensive widgets and then go into panic mode over the cost of maintenance and insurance. I know a guy who paid £95k for a shotgun and is now scared to use it as he saw another one get its stock scratched on barbed wire during a rough shoot.

If you have to worry about the cost of looking after things the best thing is to do your nerves a favour and sell the thing.

[Passenger]

You are just being sensible. Too many people buy expensive widgets and then go into panic mode over the cost of maintenance and insurance. I know a guy who paid £95k for a shotgun and is now scared to use it as he saw another one get its stock scratched on barbed wire during a rough shoot.

If you have to worry about the cost of looking after things the best thing is to do your nerves a favour and sell the thing.

I think we've reached an accord on a subject Mick

[markrlondon]

I know a guy who paid £95k for a shotgun and is now scared to use it

Gah!

My "gah" is not so much at spending £95k on a shotgun as I could well imagine myself spending that much on a something like a shotgun (if I could) but, if I did, it wouldn't be to use. That would be something to be mounted on the wall and to be admired (and occasionally caressed while muttering "my beautifully crafted precious").

[Pitch3110]

Similar boat here a couple of years ago Tony with spiralling insurance and requirements they requested.

For the last two years I have had a safe deposit box which costs approximately £300 per year with added insurance cover.

Content insurance at hove covers the two we wear out of the home.

Paul.

[learningtofly]

Costs change though
Costs which were once reasonable and able to be justified can become more significant when things like insurance premiums mushroom.
Nothing wrong with taking stock at that point.
A bit like people with gas guzzlers .There may be a tipping point where they feel the car is no longer justifiable.
Nothing wrong with inviting musings on the subject I feel.

Yes, precisely. No response was required.

Similar boat here a couple of years ago Tony with spiralling insurance and requirements they requested.

For the last two years I have had a safe deposit box which costs approximately £300 per year with added insurance cover.

Content insurance at hove covers the two we wear out of the home.

Paul.

Added insurance through the bank, Paul?

[Hood]

Costs change though
Costs which were once reasonable and able to be justified can become more significant when things like insurance premiums mushroom.
Nothing wrong with taking stock at that point.
A bit like people with gas guzzlers .There may be a tipping point where they feel the car is no longer justifiable.
Nothing wrong with inviting musings on the subject I feel.

[JonRA]

I've never insured my watches - admittedly they only nudged into a total of five figures at most but they were paid for and if I lost them it would be a shame (although that would provide an excuse to buy something new...) but it wouldn't really impact on life overall

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[helidoc]

I’m with NFU mutual, most watches are covered within the valuables limit, but the most expensive watches (Rolex & Omega) are named specifically.

I asked about a safe, although it wouldn’t reduce my £105 per month premium). I do have to have a professionally maintained alarm, but we have an ADT contract.

I don’t think that I’m paying that much extra for names items, which are all watches plus some of wifey’s jewellery.

Whether they would replace at market value if stolen is another matter!

I’ll probably get a safe regardless

Dave


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[qaz4169]

I went through this late last year. NFU were by far the cheapest using bespoke. They insisted on upgrading the safe and then we agreed watches were placed in an asset pool and 2 were covered outside of the safe when wearing. They defined the requirement for an alarm but it made no difference to the premium if it was maintained or monitored. Watches above £22k had to be listed individually. Only replacement value at RRP was covered.
I shopped around loads of bespoke policies and this was the lowest by £750 per annum.
I also learned that changing your insurer annually adversely affected premiums quoted but I’m unsure why or how true that was.
My previous experience over the past few years is that the premium increase c.20% year on year which is making the whole watch collecting hobby pretty unviable to me.
At some point I will divest and reduce the watches down. The hobby is pretty spoiled for me now, you cannot buy a watch you want, the cost of insurance is horrendous, the time invested in seeking insurance is too demanding and the risk of mugging is increasing.



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[learningtofly]

...At some point I will divest and reduce the watches down. The hobby is pretty spoiled for me now, you cannot buy a watch you want, the cost of insurance is horrendous, the time invested in seeking insurance is too demanding and the risk of mugging is increasing.



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Yeah, I hear you!

[Mick P]

I went through this late last year. NFU were by far the cheapest using bespoke. They insisted on upgrading the safe and then we agreed watches were placed in an asset pool and 2 were covered outside of the safe when wearing. They defined the requirement for an alarm but it made no difference to the premium if it was maintained or monitored. Watches above £22k had to be listed individually. Only replacement value at RRP was covered.
I shopped around loads of bespoke policies and this was the lowest by £750 per annum.
I also learned that changing your insurer annually adversely affected premiums quoted but I’m unsure why or how true that was.
My previous experience over the past few years is that the premium increase c.20% year on year which is making the whole watch collecting hobby pretty unviable to me.
At some point I will divest and reduce the watches down. The hobby is pretty spoiled for me now, you cannot buy a watch you want, the cost of insurance is horrendous, the time invested in seeking insurance is too demanding and the risk of mugging is increasing.

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I think the demographics of high end watches is beginning to change. The number of people with say a dozen Rolex will reduce due to the hassle of insurance and servicing and those who do own these watches will limit them them to two or three and will leave it at that.

To be honest, three watches is really enough for anyone.

[learningtofly]

I think the demographics of high end watches is beginning to change. The number of people with say a dozen Rolex will reduce due to the hassle of insurance and servicing and those who do own these watches will limit them them to two or three and will leave it at that.

To be honest, three watches is really enough for anyone.

I'm almost with you on this, Mick. I'm seriously thinking of reducing to 5 watches pretty much straight away, and including in those moved on my two higher value watches that need to be declared. I reckon that'll save me a shedload of hassle in addition to about £800-900 per annum in insurance costs. I have a week or two to make a decision before my new as-is premium kicks in.

[Mick P]

I'm almost with you on this, Mick. I'm seriously thinking of reducing to 5 watches pretty much straight away, and including in those moved on my two higher value watches that need to be declared. I reckon that'll save me a shedload of hassle in addition to about £800-900 per annum in insurance costs. I have a week or two to make a decision before my new as-is premium kicks in.

I would be inclined to sell just one until the price uncertainty is past history. Then just sell them as each model hits its own price peak.

[markrlondon]

Then just sell them as each model hits its own price peak.

Hasn't this already happened?

[qaz4169]

I think the demographics of high end watches is beginning to change. The number of people with say a dozen Rolex will reduce due to the hassle of insurance and servicing and those who do own these watches will limit them them to two or three and will leave it at that.

To be honest, three watches is really enough for anyone.

You’re probably right. Time for the 5712 to go at some point. Dealer price seemed to be around £99k for it a few months ago though I’m sure it’s dropped since then. Originally I procured a watch like that as I loved it and wore it every day for 4 years. Now you need to think where you’re going etc. I’ve had friends mugged on their doorstep for a gold Rolex. It’s really tarnishes the ownership experience.


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[learningtofly]

You’re probably right. Time for the 5712 to go at some point. Dealer price seemed to be around £99k for it a few months ago though I’m sure it’s dropped since then. Originally I procured a watch like that as I loved it and wore it every day for 4 years. Now you need to think where you’re going etc. I’ve had friends mugged on their doorstep for a gold Rolex. It’s really tarnishes the ownership experience.


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At that money you don't need to justify cashing it in. You'd be nuts not to unless you're rolling in cash anyway.

[Passenger]

You’re probably right. Time for the 5712 to go at some point. Dealer price seemed to be around £99k for it a few months ago though I’m sure it’s dropped since then. Originally I procured a watch like that as I loved it and wore it every day for 4 years. Now you need to think where you’re going etc. I’ve had friends mugged on their doorstep for a gold Rolex. It’s really tarnishes the ownership experience.


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Blimey about those doorstep muggings... sheesh, people, are getting desperate, bold.

[Neil.C]

I've shifted off my Rolexes recently. Too much associated aggro with the brand nowadays and a nice windfall with prices as they are.

Mind you, I never did insure them.

[markrlondon]

I’ve had friends mugged on their doorstep for a gold Rolex.

Good grief. Where was this, may I ask?

[qaz4169]

Good grief. Where was this, may I ask?

Sutton Coldfield and it was a woman who mugged an 86 year old for a gold day date.


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