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Thread: Caring for elderly parents; alcoholism, Alzheimer's and age. Where to go for advice?

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  1. #1

    Caring for elderly parents; alcoholism, Alzheimer's and age. Where to go for advice?

    I'm hoping to call on the collective experience of the forum here, as I'm at my wits-end. Some sensitive subjects below, so I apologise in advance.

    My mother had a stroke 8 years ago and is bed-ridden and immobile. We have private care in place 9-5 and my father tends to personal care in the evenings and overnight. My father has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and is starting to show cognitive degradation (short-term memory loss) - he is also an alcoholic. He fell around 2 years ago (related to alcoholic blackouts), damaging his spine, which has limited his movements quite a bit.

    We generally have a 'best endeavours' approach with my father. He's been told he can't drink anymore, but he refuses to stop. We've managed to regulate it, since his fall, by giving him a bottle of 8% wine with his evening meal every night. This has been working well for 18 months.

    Unfortunately my mother's health has declined and she's in hospital currently. Since she's been in there, we've been taking my father to see her everyday and that has enabled him to move around much more than he has done previously. He's now realised he's well enough to walk to the pub - something we've been avoiding as best as we can. So, everyday for the last 7 days, he's made his way to the pub, drank himself into a stupor and wakes up the next day with no recollection - still dressed. No amount of talking to him seems to make an impact. He's not eating any food prepared for him and seems only interested in his next drink.

    We have power of attorney and manage all their finances, care, travel, medical appointments etc.

    What, realistically, can I do? I've considered restricting his access to money, but this seems heavy-handed. He's drinking himself to death and I don't know how to help.

    Are there any services I can connect with, has anyone had anything similar they've managed through?

  2. #2
    Master John Wall's Avatar
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    Rick, my absolute sympathy and respect for your position and for sharing…

    I can’t offer any personal advice, but presume you’ve spoken to Dad’s GP ?

  3. #3
    Thanks John. GP has recommended alcohol recovery services, but unfortunately my father won't accept he has an issue and doesn't want any help. It's part of the issue, he simply doesn't think there is a problem.

  4. #4
    Master
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    It’s tricky, lots of separate areas that all inter link.
    It sounds like your dad is enjoying the freedoms created by your mums absence in hospital.
    I’ve known a few people use the Go Henry cards with alcohol or drug dependant family members, only adding small amounts daily on to the card and setting restrictions on where the card can be used.

  5. #5
    Master
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    Horrendous, mid afternoon the sundowners kicked in for father in law & he was off home, even though he was at home!!

    No amount of conversation would prevent him putting coat & shoes on & going out. Luckily small village & we would get random calls to collect him. Unable to remember way home!

    After four years of keeping him at home he had to go into a home as he was a danger to himself, late 80’s

  6. #6
    Craftsman
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    Sorry to hear of the situation you find yourself in. If your Dad refuses to stop drinking and is not eating correctly he may be in danger of wernicke's encephalopathy, which then leads on to Korsakoff Syndrome. It is caused by a thiamine deficiency, get your Dad to take a supplement if you can which may prevent an episode of wernicke's. My Dad suffered this over a decade ago, he had over 2 years in rehab and is now living at home independently with care provision. Unfortunately he now has vasular dementia (alcohol related) and he has really gone down hill in the last 2 years. He hasn't been using alcohol since his wernicke's. Speak to a doctor about preventing wernicke's/korsakoff

    Good luck.

  7. #7
    Respect for posting. You haven’t mentioned how old your parents are, roughly?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'm hoping to call on the collective experience of the forum here, as I'm at my wits-end. Some sensitive subjects below, so I apologise in advance.

    My mother had a stroke 8 years ago and is bed-ridden and immobile. We have private care in place 9-5 and my father tends to personal care in the evenings and overnight. My father has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and is starting to show cognitive degradation (short-term memory loss) - he is also an alcoholic. He fell around 2 years ago (related to alcoholic blackouts), damaging his spine, which has limited his movements quite a bit.

    We generally have a 'best endeavours' approach with my father. He's been told he can't drink anymore, but he refuses to stop. We've managed to regulate it, since his fall, by giving him a bottle of 8% wine with his evening meal every night. This has been working well for 18 months.

    Unfortunately my mother's health has declined and she's in hospital currently. Since she's been in there, we've been taking my father to see her everyday and that has enabled him to move around much more than he has done previously. He's now realised he's well enough to walk to the pub - something we've been avoiding as best as we can. So, everyday for the last 7 days, he's made his way to the pub, drank himself into a stupor and wakes up the next day with no recollection - still dressed. No amount of talking to him seems to make an impact. He's not eating any food prepared for him and seems only interested in his next drink.

    We have power of attorney and manage all their finances, care, travel, medical appointments etc.

    What, realistically, can I do? I've considered restricting his access to money, but this seems heavy-handed. He's drinking himself to death and I don't know how to help.

    Are there any services I can connect with, has anyone had anything similar they've managed through?
    Try https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/ might be able to advise as the support isn't just for the person that is ill.

    You say you have private care, would additional support for either or both help- have they been assessed for NHS support (Via Local Authority) https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...ting%20dressed.

    Also https://www.ageuk.org.uk/services/in...-care-at-home/ might be able to help

    Support for families of alcoholics also https://www.the-alcoholism-guide.org...lcoholics.html

    You may need to consider care homes for safety for one or both, might not feel palatable at the moment but worth looking into now what is available locally before further deterioration makes it an emergency.

    Some might not be able to help directly but certainly good resources of advise

    Best of luck

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    First of all - sorry for your plight, it is a very difficult situation that you are dealing with.

    With my mother's death a few days ago, I'm just coming out of the other side of a decade of dealing with her lifelong mental-issues, plus increasing dementia, coupled with intense stubbornness.

    In the end, the only definitive lesson for me personally has been acceptance.

    We did what we could to try to help and protect her, and the various professionals did likewise, but until she could be compelled to go into full-time care, there was little that could be done to ensure a grown adult did what she should, rather than whatever random, halfwitted, harmful thing she wanted!

    In the last few years, I came to terms with much of it being her choice as an elderly person approaching the end of her life. If what she did made her happier at the cost of shortened life-expectancy, well that was her choice, and I had to accept it. In any case, fighting it was futile.

    For some people this will sound like a neglect of duty, a raising of a white flag, and that's fine, judge-away. Though she always insisted she wanted to see out her days in her own home, going into full-time care was unquestionably good for her (she finally relaxed and stopped fighting), and (selfishly) it was certainly good for us.

    Good luck with your parental situation - I hope you can find solutions that work for all of you.

    I'm sorry for your loss.

    What you've said resonates with me, part of me wants to let him just enjoy his days - even if it does shorten his life-expectancy.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Pox View Post
    Try https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/ might be able to advise as the support isn't just for the person that is ill.

    You say you have private care, would additional support for either or both help- have they been assessed for NHS support (Via Local Authority) https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...ting%20dressed.

    Also https://www.ageuk.org.uk/services/in...-care-at-home/ might be able to help

    Support for families of alcoholics also https://www.the-alcoholism-guide.org...lcoholics.html

    You may need to consider care homes for safety for one or both, might not feel palatable at the moment but worth looking into now what is available locally before further deterioration makes it an emergency.

    Some might not be able to help directly but certainly good resources of advise

    Best of luck

    Thank you, I'll take some time this evening looking through those resources.

  11. #11
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    part of me wants to let him just enjoy his days - even if it does shorten his life-expectancy.
    I was thinking that.

    It begs the question of why he's drinking. :-(

  12. #12
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'm sorry for your loss.

    What you've said resonates with me, part of me wants to let him just enjoy his days - even if it does shorten his life-expectancy.

    Thank-you. (Thank-you, all of you, for your comments.)

    It's an understandable and reasonable response to simply let your dad enjoy himself as he wishes. Western society is obsessed with quantity of life over quality (though vast lip-service is paid to the latter!), my opinion, FWIW, is that quality of life is by far the most important.

    There's no rhyme-or-reason to alcoholism IME - contemporary society loves to portray addicts as 'victims', but the truth is some people drink to numb themselves, others for the simple joy of inebriation, some it's little more than habit, others its a multiplicity of overlapping causes. No matter what reasons underlie your dad's tippling, at 70+ it's too late to change very much, it's just something you have to accept.

    Practically, there's not much to add to what's been better-said by others: limit his 'pocket money', speak with the pub so they understand the situation, maybe ask they only sell him beer rather than wines and spirits, perhaps find out if he has a more 'with-it' drinking buddy or near-neighbour who can see him home, and look-in to getting full-time care sorted, painfully-expensive as it is.

    Comprehensional difficulties notwithstanding, whatever course you take, try to explain it to him - even if he's not always fully lucid, it's often surprising what seeps through to the subconscious mechanisms of the mind, albeit it can take a few goes!

    There's no manual for Coping, to me it's not remotely a black-&-white / right-or-wrong situation - you simply do the best You can. In reality, no-one's in charge: more-like there's 10 different wannabe-drivers squabbling for control of a runaway pantechnicon... Afterwards, when all has run its course, accept it for what it is and set-aside any temptations for guilt (the most futile and self-indulgent of all the emotions).

    Very best of luck to all of you.

  13. #13
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    IME unlikely the hospital will discharge your mother unless social services are involved and adequate care arranged ... either at home or in temporary or permanent residential care. Be guided by social services ... any care will involve professional assessment. I was responsible for a very stubborn aunt's privately funded care for 14 years ... social services were involved ref assessments. After my aunt's condition deteriorated (further strokes) she stubbornly refused to accept private residential care by which time her 'own home' private care agency was insisting on her having TWO 24/7 carers. I had to be ruthless and insist that she accepted private residential care ... because two full time carers in her own home was not an £option. A different situation to that of your mother but eventually persuaded my aunt that private residential care was the only answer. She was tearful for two weeks after she moved into the residential care home ... but thereafter settled in fine ... whence I was able to visit daily on my way home from work. My aunt's own home was in N London ... I moved her into a Peterborough residential care home ... after visiting all the local care homes and choosing the best. Might be possible for your father to also move into any residential care home selected for your mother. My aunt's residential care home catered for couples including those where one was not disabled ... separate rooms were offered. If your father agreed to have residential care in same care home as your mother, their house could be let and rent used to subsidise residential home care costs. When in residential home care, most residents qualify for a 'non-means tested' personal needs care allowance covering e.g. essential toileting / bathing /dressing / feeding ... but all subject to assessment. The £allowance paid by the local authority helps offset care home fees. Care homes arrange the assessments for their residents.

    The danger / risk relating to your father is that his memory loss could eventually result in him getting lost on his way home from the pub ... risking an accident to himself and other road users. Sounds as if he requires constant supervision ... which would be available in a residential nursing home ... if he could be persuaded to agree to same. If my father had been in a similar situation and I had the £funds to help him, I'd insist he moved into a residential nursing home ... where qualified staff are experienced in the care and management of residents with both memory and alcohol problems. Some nursing homes provide 'secure wings' where residents cannot 'go walkies' / 'AWOL'. A residential nursing home would not expect a resident with alcohol problems to be teetotal ... they'd likely allow supervised alcohol consumption ... e.g. a glass before bedtime ... and they help residents eat a healthy diet.

    I hope you and your family can find and agree a satisfactory way forward and that you will soon have fewer worries / concerns.

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 15th June 2022 at 09:16.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  14. #14
    Master
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    Sorry to read this
    As has been said contact social services- when my mum was diagnosed with lewy bodies dementia my dad and I cared for her for quite a while but it became too much for us when she was confined to bed
    We had a good team who visited twice a day and had a bed in the lounge - she passed a couple of years ago at home closely followed by my old dad
    Early 70’s
    Seek some help if you can

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    IME unlikely the hospital will discharge your mother unless social services are involved and adequate care arranged ... either at home or in temporary or permanent residential care. Be guided by social services ... any care will involve professional assessment.
    This is what should happen but social services as stretched to the limits and beyond and the hospital, who will be desperate for the bed, will happily discharge to the care of the family if the family are willing to accept their loved one.

    In the OPs position I would not accept the discharge until a care plan has been done by social services. It’s much easier to get this done whilst your relative is blocking a hospital bed.

    If your relative is discharged to your care you will be waiting a long time for the intervention of social service.

    With regards funding FNC (Funded Nursing Care) is pretty easy to qualify for and is about £150/week. CHC (continuing health care) is very difficult to access unless there is a very obvious primary health care need. We have spent 3 years and numerous appeals to get CHC for my FiL who is in a dreadful state with advanced Parkinson’s. It’s a tough situation.

  16. #16
    Craftsman leo1790's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear this and I hope it gets sorted.

    Our close neighbours ended up on a similar path a few years ago. The old boy was a raging but friendly and functional alcoholic, he had early onset of dementia and basically drank himself to death in the space of 12 months. His wife also had early signs of dementia while she was trying to care for him and following his death she also turned to the drink.
    The family weren't the most helpful bunch and almost expected local neighbours to look after her. We did as much as we could but put our foot down when she'd try to slip one of us £20 in the morning to get her a bottle of vodka.
    After discussions with the son and daughter we agreed to getting the occasional bottle of wine for her but at the end of the week, we'd see the bottle bin full of all manner of empty bottles.

    Fortunately, a friend of a friend in the village is a community carer and she got the ball rolling with getting extra help for her, but more importantly, getting her family involved.
    They got her on a care program to cut down the drink and also to ensure she was eating healthy meals etc.
    Anyway, she's completely cut out the drink now and looks a bill of health. She walks up and down the road every hour to take in the fresh air and get some exercise.
    This, I believe, could only have happened with the support of her family and although they were slow off the mark they have realised that they need to look after their mum.
    I think she was quite open to receiving help but I realise not everybody is, if someone doesn't want the help then obviously makes it much more difficult.

    She's late 70's and looks healthier and happier now than she did 10 years ago.

    I wish you all the best.

  17. #17
    Master
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    I know (personally) this is a serious subject but reading through it just reminded me that my mum would regularly leave me some cash hidden in my bedroom while I was at work ( I’d moved home and helping dad with her care) -1 was 51 at the time - she said pocket money 😂😂

  18. #18
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'm hoping to call on the collective experience of the forum here, as I'm at my wits-end. Some sensitive subjects below, so I apologise in advance.

    My mother had a stroke 8 years ago and is bed-ridden and immobile. ... ... we've been taking my father to see her everyday and that has enabled him to move around much more than he has done previously. He's now realised he's well enough to walk to the pub - something we've been avoiding as best as we can. So, everyday for the last 7 days, he's made his way to the pub, drank himself into a stupor and wakes up the next day with no recollection - still dressed. No amount of talking to him seems to make an impact. He's not eating any food prepared for him and seems only interested in his next drink.

    We have power of attorney and manage all their finances, care, travel, medical appointments etc.

    What, realistically, can I do? I've considered restricting his access to money, but this seems heavy-handed. He's drinking himself to death and I don't know how to help.

    Are there any services I can connect with, has anyone had anything similar they've managed through?
    Try contacting your local Alcoholics Anonymous to enquire if they can offer advice ref your father's alcohol relapse ... and do not assume AA cannot offer advice ... they've likely dealt with similar situations ... AA helps the families of alcoholics in addition to the alcoholics. AA was once very helpful to me ref an alcoholic GF ... I was allowed to attend the 'open' AA meetings with my GF where relatives / friends were welcome ... but I was not permitted to attend the AA 'closed meetings'. AA might be able to offer your father counselling ... and he's more likely to attend an 'open' AA meeting if accompanied by you or a family member.

    And: Ref "GP has recommended alcohol recovery services, but unfortunately my father won't accept he has an issue and doesn't want any help. It's part of the issue, he simply doesn't think there is a problem." ... that's a typical response ... most people with an alcohol problem do not want to admit they have a problem ... Alcoholics Anonymous is very used to hearing this response and can likely advise on best course of action. You'd very likely benefit from a chat with an AA advisor who's heard all excuses voiced by alcoholics. I've had two alcoholic GFs .. they never easily admitted to their problem ... one died from alcohol related total organ failure ... one still attends AA meetings. Another friend also died from alcohol related organ failure which could likely have been prevented had he quit the booze ... it's a terrible way to die. He went 'downhill' following the death of his wife who'd previously helped him reduce his intake. Alcoholics need a lot of support; they seldom admit to their problems and predicaments and think they can manage by themselves ... but they cannot manage by themselves ... by themselves the booze always wins ... bringing heartache to their family and friends.
    Last edited by sundial; 16th June 2022 at 09:14.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  19. #19
    Thanks all, I'm continuing to digest posts and recommendations. We have a good local rehabilitation centre, I'm going to pop and see them today, see if there's any support for us or my father.

    Situation has not improved, arguably it's worse.

    My mother has been discharged and is home, but if I'm honest doesn't seem well enough to be home - I suspect they've sent her home to be 'comfortable', to me this suggests we're near the end.

    I'd hoped that would have stopped my father going to the pub, having her home - sadly not. Comically he had an appointment regarding his dementia, scored 76 on his ACE III test, told them he wasn't going to the pub or drinking at all (which my wife corrected him on). He then came home has some dinner (forgetting to feed his wife) and then headed off up the road to the pub - I intercepted him and it ended in an argument. I've now taken his cards and any cash out of the house. If he'd have gotten to the pub, he wouldn't have been able to care for my mother - in fact he didn't even take a phone with him, in case she needed him.

    Chatted to him today, no recollection of our altercation or even going to see the Doctor.

  20. #20
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Has any nursing / personal needs care been arranged for your mother at home? Your father's situation suggests additional carers are required. Too risky to leave him looking after your mother without additional help / assistance.
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Has any nursing / personal needs care been arranged for your mother at home? Your father's situation suggests additional carers are required. Too risky to leave him looking after your mother without additional help / assistance.

    We have a care package for my mother, arranged by the hospital - this is only in place for a month (because it is means tested). Our private care is only office hours. I'm looking at options today for extended coverage for private care, or potentially live-in care.

  22. #22
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Hide valuables if new carers arriving ... Good luck
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

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