I already live within the ULEZ zone so no bother to me. My 11 year old Skoda is compliant too so win win.
I hate TfL with a passion. The are parasitic barstewards who serve a purpose to squeeze every last penny out of every motorist, for the most minor traffic infringement possible within London.
Yes, I have had numerous run-ins with them before, and have seen how sh1tty they are when you try to fight back. They once tried to fine me £160 for stopping on a unpainted yellow box junction. Took 6 months and tribunal before their lawyer armed with 6 inches thick of paperwork backed down.
Well, not content with raking in tens of millions from bus lanes, yellow box junctions, no right turns etc., the next ruse is to fill their depleted coffers by a proposal to extend the ULEZ to the whole of Greater London in 2023.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...nsion-for-2023
Both of our cars are non-ULEZ compliant, but luckily I’m a mile away from the Greater London boundary.
But, it means either buying new cars or never driving into the outer suburbs of London again.
I already live within the ULEZ zone so no bother to me. My 11 year old Skoda is compliant too so win win.
Something needs to change as pollution in and around the City needs to be reduced, however if this goes through I am struggling to see how those who are unable to purchase a newer or approved vehicle will manage as well as the very fact that commerciall, costs will be passed onto Customers.
From a simple perspective why hasn’t this simply been applied to everything within the M25. Is this because some areas are outside of TF’Ls control or a commercial interest such as IKEA on the circular?
Resistance if futile where TFL are concerned and surrender is the only option…
I fear that this is a given, and the decision has already been made for 2023.
B
There's no reason to drive a non-Ulez car. If you can afford a car, you can afford a Ulez compliant one. When my wife wanted to get rid of her old banger, one of her main considerations was that it had to be Ulez. She could have bought one for £800 which was the cheapest we could find. Luckily she got a Ulez non-jalopy for a whole lot more, but just making the point that cost isn't an issue to use as an excuse.
If a single person lives longer because they haven't breathed in the toxic London air then it's worth doing.
I see they have taken in Chessington World of Adventures to snag a few extra families from outside London.
Worth noting that whilst I'm sure revenue generation plays a part here the key driver is lowering the levels of harmful pollution in London and therefore before moaning people should query why they are allowing themselves to still pollute the atmosphere and whether there are alternatives. Doesn't mean buying a new car as times are tough but maybe exploring public transport etc which is plentiful in London
The non-compliant cars do not go on to get scrapped. They merely get sold and turn up in other U.K. cities and continue to emit.
It is Londons working poor and hard pressed families I feel for, having to upgrade their cars at the time of maximum inflation. Something which they can ill afford. While those high earners in £60k company leased, low BIK EVs are all smug.
Whatever they tell you, TfL will have one lens on pollution and one bigger lens on revenue generation. TfL get all the revenue, but it is generally at the expense of the lower wage earner forced to pay for the TfL scheme via a car upgrade.
Also, give it 5+ years and most of the non compliant cars will be off the road anyway due to a cars normal lifespan.
It’s not just about cars owners within the zone but also cars venturing into the zone that are effected.
Maybe if an actual incentive was offered rather than a penalty then it gain more support as the people I have spoken to see the benefits of reducing emissions but begrudge the penalty TFL are going to impose by default.
B
Last edited by bomberman; 12th June 2022 at 17:08.
The Mayor relies on handouts, precepts and grants. His only control of revenue is TfL fares, congestion charges and ULEZ. TfL has a massive post-Covid black hole piled on top of an already dire financial state. It is in effect bankrupt. The expansion of ULEZ from the inner city to the north and south circular roads cost something like £175m and has failed to deliver anywhere near the expected revenue increase, so he has to extend ULEZ to the outer London boroughs. Air quality in outer London boroughs is the same as air quality in urban areas throughout the UK and better than other major cities, motorways and trunk roads throughout the UK. The air quality in the London Borough of Richmond will be no worse than that in the neighbouring Surrey districts of Elmbridge and Spellthorne.
It's happening. ULEZ to be extended to cover all of Greater London in August 2023.
I just ordered my leccy car yesterday so that was serendipitous, as neither my Euro IV Volvo V70 diesel nor old petrol engined Vauxhall are compliant.
I live outside the ULEZ, but only by a stones throw.
100% agree (and I'm nowhere near a ULEZ charge, YET, anyway)
I had to laugh at this post from Ryan above who until recently...drove a frikkin' Range Rover
QUOTE
Worth noting that whilst I'm sure revenue generation plays a part here the key driver is lowering the levels of harmful pollution in London and therefore before moaning people should query why they are allowing themselves to still pollute the atmosphere and whether there are alternatives. Doesn't mean buying a new car as times are tough but maybe exploring public transport etc which is plentiful in London[/B]
Last edited by reggie747; 25th November 2022 at 17:37.
Pure revenue raising. I don't know when everyone will get fed up of the Tories and their cost cutting, tax raising; Khan and his revenue raising; the cost of living crisis; fuel prices; the strikes etc etc.
TFL has an enormous black hole to fill, and Khan is using any means possible to fill it.
I drive a pick up for work out of necessity for picking up bulk materials. Electric not an option.
A compliant vehicle will set me back £15k…
It’s not like I don’t try and look after my truck, but to me £15k is a hell of a lot of money, for something that
Will pick up knocks/dents/scrapes.
Let alone I don’t even trust them…. What happens when they move the goalposts for emission criteria and it becomes chargeable again. You know, when the sold the dream of diesels being the future…
Still the wealthy or “sensible” who have gone electric; no tax, cheaper to run, some free recharging from Supermarket retailers…. That’s all worked out well…
It’s just another tax, I can’t really say stealth, but just blatant.
Pollution just another excuse… I “could” still pay the £12.50 a day, as could many others, rev the nuts off it, and puff out loads of filthy black smoke everywhere….樂
Last edited by deanlad; 26th November 2022 at 08:53.
Was holding out hope that for once with the backdrop of fuel prices etc he’d be sensible but Guess it’s time to look for new car
You want clean air? Ban big tyres and heavy vehicles.
"A man of little significance"
Prices of non-ULEZ cars are going to crater soon in the SE. Hundreds and thousands of them will offloaded at the same time. Especially as the new ULEZ zone must be five times the size of the current ULEZ zone by area.
If you’re serious about it, that’s the way.
Along with any kind of fossil fuel powered home/workplace heating, and industrial processes.
Of course, that’s impractical so it’s all about minimising the impact or moving to cleaner (albeit imperfect) more sustainable ‘things’, and consuming less ‘stuff’. Oh, and stop having lots of kids.
At some point though we have to stop kicking the can down the road, as there’ll be no road left.
More of the same isn’t going to cut it.
I’m not even sure that is the way. The amount of energy it takes to produce an electric car and the amount to recycle the batteries means the gains are not that significant. And that’s without taking into account a lot of the energy that goes into EVs come from fossil fuels.
There’s also the ethical implications of mining lithium. That in itself is destroying the environment and it’s widely accepted they’re using child Labour, in conditions worse than Victorian England.
Sadly, this is a fundamental flaw of much of the green agenda.
I was listening to someone from the wind farm industry on LBC a while ago. He was saying that the thing nobody seems to talk about is that (and the numbers may be slightly out, but the principle is accurate) the carbon ROI on a single wind turbine is about 25 years, but they reach their end of life after 20 years.
Khan is responsible for transport in Greater London. The M25’s route does not go through London, except (I think) a small section through the borough of Havering, it goes around London and through local authorities he has no jurisdiction over. He of course has no jurisdiction for the M25 itself. The ULEZ boundary will follow that of the external boundaries of London’s boroughs.
It is arbitrary in terms of air quality. The air quality in London’s outer boroughs is no different to that in neighbouring non-London local authorities and other urban and suburban areas in the U.K. It is better than other cities in the U.K., the M25 and other major routes in the U.K.
It is Khan’s political legacy.
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Last edited by BillyCasper; 26th November 2022 at 09:07.
Bristol launch it later this month the Clean Air Zone looks like the same restrictions as ULEZ and a £9 a day fee.
Unfortunately, a lot of that is incorrect, and probably not the place to go through it all again, but suffice to say every credible study says the opposite re whole life CO2, electricity is used on the production of fossil fuels too, as is Cobalt and it isn’t mined solely for EV batteries.
That’s not making excuses for it, the worlds problems and the solutions are more complex than that, but the uncomfortable truth is we will need to fundamentally change the way we live if we’re to have a long term future on this planet.
Tony, that’s not my understanding, and it’s talked about plenty as well as on LBC.
https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/
It might be the case for a turbine placed in a poor location, but not so for those well located like offshore and well maintained.
There are many people keen to see the ‘green agenda’ fail, but behind them are usually turkeys who see that Christmas is coming.
Restricted city access, end of ICE’s, “Green” taxes, cost of electric cars. I’ll be surprised if anyone owns a car in 20 years.
People who drive vans don’t yet have a viable alternative for affordability, range and towing capacity so don’t have a choice put to be taxed for earning a living which they will then have to add to their charges for services in the middle of a cost of living crisis.
In Greater Manchester Andy Burnham tried to bring in a similar sized scheme but the working class rebelled causing him to blame the government for his choice of a 500m2 scheme and put it on hold.
Maybe Londoners can do the same.
Any car or van made in the last 6 years complies with the ULEZ requirements, and pretty much any petrol car or van made in the last 16 years or more. They are not forcing you to buy a zero emissions electric vehicle.
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A lot of you clearly did not live in London 20 years ago for any extended period when the poorness of the air quality would actually burn the inside of your nose. The air pollution problem is real, and these policies do combat it. Sure TfL are scum and they're making a disproportionate amount of money off of it, but what other deterrent is there for people to not bring their old diesels or sooty 5 litre Range Rovers for a catch up with mates?
London is one of the most overburdened cities in the world with regards to population. Too many people here and there isn't enough housing, public services, infrastructure to deal comfortably. I'm sure this policy serves several points - cleans the air, makes TfL money (scum), and deters people from defaulting to London as a default location.
Once we have full self driving cars all working and communicating in a networked highway system then what's the point of differentiation between one car and another. It won't be anything to do with handling, power or performance. It'll only be comfort.
Once all cars are a nice place to be it wouldn't matter if you are in your own or someone else's.
The fleet of vehicles is in a constant state of renewal. Perhaps let existing vehicles reach the end of their useful lives and then replace. ULEZ compliance will come about in the foreseeable future, possibly throughout the U.K. as vehicles are renewed.
The previous expansion cost £100m+ to set up and operate, this expansion double that. When ULEZ compliance is achieved, perhaps by all vehicles being electric, I wonder what will happen then? Wind the scheme up? No chance.
That dirty air from the rich people in Spelthorne and Elmbridge had better not blow over into my borough.
The biggest influence on air quality in my borough is aircraft flying in and out of Heathrow.
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You are almost right. It’s a maximum 6 year old vehicle I’m potentially being forced to buy.
Being commercial, nearly all vat reg. At around the £15 k mark + vat, it’s not really a viable option for me.
I think what’s beginning to gripe is the fact that you don’t have a choice, or is it a day in the matter.
Expansion was well and truly opposed overwhelmingly/80%…. Yet it goes ahead….
- - - Updated - - -
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-punishes-the-poorest/
Not great timing with the cost of living crisis and the price of used cars right now, though I won’t miss the pollution. I went through this years ago due to living centrally and future proofing for the central London introduction, which forced me out of my cheap car comfort zone. Setting autotrader to 2006 onwards was a bracing increase at the time. But there’s plenty of choice. I ended up with a pleasantly ULEZ compliant BMW e86 Z4 Coupé, with hindsight I’m quite glad for the nudge. Not that this is likely to cheer anyone up who now has to sell their car in a hurry.