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Thread: ULEZ Expansion 2023

  1. #101

    ULEZ Expansion 2023

    Black sh1t got sorted out a with Euro IV diesels in the noughties. For diesels it is all about NOx these days.

    Only a Euro VI will do for the ULEZ.

  2. #102
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    When is Euro VII coming out?

    And when will it become the new ULEZ threshold?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    When is Euro VII coming out?

    And when will it become the new ULEZ threshold?
    Some background on your first question:
    https://dieselnet.com/news/2022/11eu.php

  4. #104
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Worst part of commuting into London on a 1200cc bike was the 20 limit.

    Bit fast for 1st but very juddery in 2nd due to the revs being low. I ignored it where I could.
    Try doing it on a 1750 - you never get out of 1st.

  5. #105
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I am pleased to see this coming into effect there in no need to drive a vehicle in London unless you are disabled, trades person or delivery driver.
    What if you want to take your dog to the vet?
    How do you buy anything you can’t carry on a cycle?
    Are all schoolchildren suddenly going to walk to school or go on the bus?
    Sounds like a great way to control people to me. You mustn’t go out of your own area folks. No going for a drive on Sunday to places of interest. You know it’s not good for the planet so don’t do it folks. Stay at home and watch your TV and we’ll keep you entertained . (Of course important people and officials will be allowed to travel for ‘necessary’ reasons)
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    What if you want to take your dog to the vet? Walk or use public transport.
    How do you buy anything you can’t carry on a cycle? Public transport or courier in a ULEZ vehicle
    Are all schoolchildren suddenly going to walk to school or go on the bus? Maybe walking and getting some exercise will do them good!

  7. #107
    Anyone tried taking an Uber to the 'tip'.

  8. #108
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    So walk 5 miles to the vet with a sick dog. Yeah course.
    Stay at home people and do as you’re told.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  9. #109
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Anyone tried taking an Uber to the 'tip'.
    Or to the DIY store to buy a bag of cement and some sand?
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Anyone tried taking an Uber to the 'tip'.
    No but you can rent a zipvan or call an any junk company to collect.

  11. #111
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    No but you can rent a zipvan or call an any junk company to collect.
    8ollocks !

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    8ollocks !
    ?! What a strange response…

  13. #113
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    No but you can rent a zipvan or call an any junk company to collect.
    Or apply for permission to drive to the tip, the commissariat will grant a permit no doubt…

    Coming soon perhaps the 15 minute cities…

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201214-how-15-minute-cities-will-change-the-way-we-socialise

    “So you’re applying for a permit to go outside the city are you…..?”
    Last edited by oldoakknives; 3rd December 2022 at 11:29.

  14. #114
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    ?! What a strange response…
    So, is renting a zipvan or calling a rubble collecting company - You think that's going to be easier or harder on the pocket ?

  15. #115
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    So, is renting a zipvan or calling a rubble collecting company - You think that's going to be easier or harder on the pocket ?
    I didn’t say that, I said it’s an option, we’ve done both. It’s certainly cheaper than running a car. Unless you’re going to the tip constantly. Personally I don’t have an issue, it is what it is and in London there are options.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples
    All cars are polluting.

  18. #118
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples
    Winner of ‘Today’s post from the ivory tower’ award.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  19. #119
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples
    Says a guy who until not too long ago.......ran a Range Rover 😂😂😂😂

  20. #120
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples
    All cars are polluting. New EVs hardly land on your drive carbon neutral, either.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Try doing it on a 1750 - you never get out of 1st.
    That can't be fun.

    You'll have to start an ebike thread for the London meets. Brompton looks tempting.

  22. #122
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    I didn’t say that, I said it’s an option, we’ve done both. It’s certainly cheaper than running a car. Unless you’re going to the tip constantly. Personally I don’t have an issue, it is what it is and in London there are options.
    You not getting it or summat ? It's about the revenue creation not about the $hit that cars put out or all cars would be banned. Period.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Or to the DIY store to buy a bag of cement and some sand?
    Cargo bikes, soon the major players (Wikes, Homebase, B&Q etc) will likely have their own fleet, Amazon and UPS are using them along with plenty of independent services for moving stuff around.
    in 10 years i have gone from not knowing what one was to knowing 4 people who own one and hiring one (with rider) for moving things around.
    2 ton of sharp sand is still going to be delivered by traditional methods but for smaller stuff it just doesn't make sense.
    Seems odd to see builders clutching a waste trap and a couple of fittings coming out of screwfix and getting into their van, thats a waste of an hour most of which is spent polluting/idling in traffic.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    You not getting it or summat ? It's about the revenue creation not about the $hit that cars put out or all cars would be banned. Period.
    You’re obviously quite exercised about this issue. I have an 11 year old petrol so am not impacted. There are more important things in life to worry about.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe just don't have a polluting car? Simples
    Let them eat cake

  26. #126
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    I see Heathrow Airport is going to be inside this new ULEZ zone, so that's going to affect anyone in a non-compliant car who currently does airport drop offs or pick ups ...

  27. #127
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    The mayor might be better focussing on the teenage murders on his patch, but that would be hard.

  28. #128
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Cargo bikes, soon the major players (Wikes, Homebase, B&Q etc) will likely have their own fleet, Amazon and UPS are using them along with plenty of independent services for moving stuff around.
    in 10 years i have gone from not knowing what one was to knowing 4 people who own one and hiring one (with rider) for moving things around.
    2 ton of sharp sand is still going to be delivered by traditional methods but for smaller stuff it just doesn't make sense.
    Seems odd to see builders clutching a waste trap and a couple of fittings coming out of screwfix and getting into their van, thats a waste of an hour most of which is spent polluting/idling in traffic.
    Sounds great so I'll never have to leave the house again. Everything will be brought to me by jolly rickshaw pilots with man buns and beards.
    I thought it made very good sense for me to drive the 5 miles to the store and buy what I needed. When I needed it.
    So how quickly is that waste trap going to be delivered? While the builder sits there drinking my tea and playing some infernal row on his Makita radio.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by 459GMB View Post
    I see Heathrow Airport is going to be inside this new ULEZ zone, so that's going to affect anyone in a non-compliant car who currently does airport drop offs or pick ups ...
    Or just parking - another £25 added to the cost.

  30. #130
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    ULEZ Expansion 2023

    Just out of interest, how many of our members don’t have either a post 2006 petrol, post 2015 diesel or an EV and drive anywhere within the new ULEZ zone?

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Just out of interest, how many of our members don’t have either a post 2006 petrol, post 2015 diesel or an EV and drive anywhere within the new ULEZ zone?
    We have a year 2000 petrol and year 2009 diesel and I am a stones throw from the ULEZ.

    EV on the way, due late June.

    Will be sad to see the old girls go.

  32. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Just out of interest, how many of our members don’t have either a post 2006 petrol, post 2015 diesel or an EV and drive anywhere within the new ULEZ zone?
    2011 petrol, live inside existing ULEZ.

  33. #133
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    2002 diesel here ... I am the only owner, and we are falling apart gracefully together LOL. 148,000 on the clock, so I figure the car is about half way through it's useful life ... so probably doing better than me :-)

    This is going to affect me for LHR airport trips, and I'll have to knock the occasional trip to IKEA Croydon on the head as well (in favour of Southampton) ....

  34. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Sounds great so I'll never have to leave the house again. Everything will be brought to me by jolly rickshaw pilots with man buns and beards.
    I thought it made very good sense for me to drive the 5 miles to the store and buy what I needed. When I needed it.
    So how quickly is that waste trap going to be delivered? While the builder sits there drinking my tea and playing some infernal row on his Makita radio.
    probably about the same time as it takes to drive in urban areas, shouldn't he be drilling the sink for the tap or tiling the splashback while he's waiting?

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    The mayor might be better focussing on the teenage murders on his patch, but that would be hard.
    police numbers/local youth/community centres/after school clubs all hit by funding, maybe the "blatant revenue generating" money from congestion charging can help with that?

    I must say i'm surprised at how many people who lack the power to vote for him or any other candidate and have no 'skin in the game' have such strong opinions on the matter.
    I couldn't care less who the mayor/MP/councillor is in Peterborough, Peterlee or Petersfield!?..

  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    police numbers/local youth/community centres/after school clubs all hit by funding, maybe the "blatant revenue generating" money from congestion charging can help with that?

    I must say i'm surprised at how many people who lack the power to vote for him or any other candidate and have no 'skin in the game' have such strong opinions on the matter.
    I couldn't care less who the mayor/MP/councillor is in Peterborough, Peterlee or Petersfield!?..
    Hardly surprising, affects plenty of people not living there but who have cause to visit.

    Not the same for those other places.

  37. #137
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    probably about the same time as it takes to drive in urban areas, shouldn't he be drilling the sink for the tap or tiling the splashback while he's waiting?
    Drilling the sink for the tap?

    But seriously no, a lot of the time there will be nothing else to do.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Hardly surprising, affects plenty of people not living there but who have cause to visit.

    Not the same for those other places.
    And pollution affects millions of people in London who do not drive, car ownership is very low in many boroughs as it simply doesn't make sense to own a depreciating asset that costs a fortune while it's parked (95% of it's time) and a fortune to run when it's being used (the other 5%).
    People who live in London have to put up with outsiders pollution, that includes the air and noise pollution from Heathrow and city airports, it's only fair visitors have to pay a small fee for the odd occasion they might want/need to visit.

    If smaller towns and cities did the same (congestion charge for more polluting vehicles) then that would level the playing field. as somebody who lives in the ulez zone i would happily pay that if i ever decide to drive to Peterborough.

  39. #139
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    My Sister lives near Waterloo station, she gave up car ownership years ago, and is now a member of a car club.

    She can use an App to book a car and pay by the minute or hour, or if she needs to ‘go to the tip’, as many on here need to frequently apparently, she can book a van in the same way.

    The cars are all electric, the vans increasingly so as well, the membership and hire fees cover all the costs including electricity, and it works really well for her.

    Times are changing, and people live and use vehicles differently to most on here, but yes it’s probably about money as much as clean air now but I don’t live or drive in London or any other big city so perhaps I’m the one out of touch.

  40. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    And pollution affects millions of people in London who do not drive, car ownership is very low in many boroughs as it simply doesn't make sense to own a depreciating asset that costs a fortune while it's parked (95% of it's time) and a fortune to run when it's being used (the other 5%).
    People who live in London have to put up with outsiders pollution, that includes the air and noise pollution from Heathrow and city airports, it's only fair visitors have to pay a small fee for the odd occasion they might want/need to visit.

    If smaller towns and cities did the same (congestion charge for more polluting vehicles) then that would level the playing field. as somebody who lives in the ulez zone i would happily pay that if i ever decide to drive to Peterborough.
    This all might be true, I was merely commenting on your surprise.

  41. #141
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Or just use an uber

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Drilling the sink for the tap?

    But seriously no, a lot of the time there will be nothing else to do.
    paid by the day then not the job!

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Anyone tried taking an Uber to the 'tip'.
    No need you can get the council to collect that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  44. #144

  45. #145
    Looks like after a certain recent voting result the ULEZ expansion is under pressure.

    Sadiq Khan ‘now listening’ on Ulez after Keir Starmer piles on pressure

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7...0a1f9672f3654f

  46. #146
    I know Sadiq Khan was force to expand ULEZ by Grant Schapps in return for TFL funding but I don’t know how much that has resulted in the expansion coming in so quickly.

    For me, there’s two main things, Firstly, local transport, once you get out of central London is patchy, and people do a lot of journeys by car because there’s no alternative. Secondly, the expansion hits the poorest hardest. They will be the ones with the oldest cars who won’t be able to replace them or afford the daily charge for using their existing cars.

    As always the financial penalty is on the public, not the manufacturers or other corporates who contribute to the emissions inside the expansion area.

  47. #147
    I personally think it will be delayed, potentially significantly.

    It is at odds with the party supporting hard working families and those suffering the cost of living crisis.

    And quite right too. The impact on the least able to afford the change had not been properly assessed.

    Interesting to see how this will affect other proposed schemes around the country.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevvy View Post
    Secondly, the expansion hits the poorest hardest. They will be the ones with the oldest cars who won’t be able to replace them or afford the daily charge for using their existing cars.

    As always the financial penalty is on the public, not the manufacturers or other corporates who contribute to the emissions inside the expansion area.
    That is correct, although we shouldn’t also forget that the adverse effects of current levels of car emissions also impact on the poor most severely, so poor children in outer London suffer the highest levels of asthma and permanent lung damage, while residents our age suffer 20% higher risks of stroke (for example). Most people, including the publishers of most U.K. newspapers, don’t choose to see that, or think it doesn’t affect them.

    Still, there are no simple choices, and it has the be the art of the possible.

  49. #149
    I read that they need the expansion revenue to fund TFL, the other elephant in the room is that for electric or current ICE cars the pollution from the tyres and dust from the roads are the largest polluters, but mustn’t confuse the rhetoric with facts that don’t fit.

  50. #150
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    Angela Rayner reported to have said that ULEZ is coming to “every town and city across the UK”. Should have invested in the businesses that make the infrastructure.

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