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Thread: No crime committed

  1. #1

    No crime committed

    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?

  2. #2
    Im not surprised, last year a neighbour of ours didn’t hear his ring camera go off at 1am and when he checked in the morning found a guy snooping around his front door, looking underneath his car and around the tailgate latch and reg plate, he disappeared and came back and then wandered around for several minutes before disappearing. He stuck it upon on the local FB page and the guy in question was recognised locally (very clear stills taken) and he lived about 500 yards away. The coppers didn’t give a rats arse and suggested to him to turn the volume up on his ring camera. The guy in question has recently been elected (by default) on to the local parish council…you couldn't make it up.

  3. #3
    Journeyman Adge's Avatar
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    To be fair the coppers have enough crimes to investigate before they start investigating all 'not-crimes'!

    I guess consider yourself lucky, and good thing you have the cameras so when a crime is ultimately committed you can submit to insurers.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    To be fair the coppers have enough crimes to investigate before they start investigating all 'not-crimes'!

    I guess consider yourself lucky, and good thing you have the cameras so when a crime is ultimately committed you can submit to insurers.
    The ironic thing is it would be pretty much impossible to steal a car quietly from our drive, one way in or out, large brick piers and a very solid rising bollard, make the blokes behaviour more strange.

    But our police do seem to be doing less and less

  5. #5
    Journeyman Adge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    The ironic thing is it would be pretty much impossible to steal a car quietly from our drive, one way in or out, large brick piers and a very solid rising bollard, make the blokes behaviour more strange.

    But our police do seem to be doing less and less
    Maybe looking for valuables inside for a smash and grab?

    I do see this a lot where people complain someone is loitering around their yard suspiciously at all hours... When the perps in question don't look sophisticated enough to steal the car in the drive with the latest anti-theft technology

  6. #6
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    The ironic thing is it would be pretty much impossible to steal a car quietly from our drive, one way in or out, large brick piers and a very solid rising bollard, make the blokes behaviour more strange.

    But our police do seem to be doing less and less
    20,000 or so less coppers these days and many thousands more civilian backroom staff gone, austerity has repercussions.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?
    Yes it is. They do not want to know. I'm going to have a rant now, sorry.

    I'm a coppers son and I have worked in the electronic security industry (mainly CCTV and remote monitoring) for over 40yrs. This will cause some debate I'm sure but I wouldn't trust the Police as far as I could throw one. In my experience, both professional and privately they are lazy, patronising, unhelpful, often corrupt and are looking only for easy tick boxes. Ok so there are probably some that are capable and do the right thing but I'm afraid I can only speak from experience (some pretty bad experiences that I wouldn't go into on here) so I'm not surprised in the slightest they weren't interested. Try again when you see them actually breaking in to the car or house and they'll still do nothing because they are "too busy". Tell them your next door neighbours dog has had a crap and he didn't pick it up and the Sweeny will turn up in seconds.

    Ok, rant over and sorry to any one in the job who is trying to do it right.

  8. #8
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    If there was hurty words on the internet, you'd have every available vehicle responding

  9. #9
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    We had them a few weeks ago checking my wife’s car - same as mine but my wing mirrors fold when locked; perhaps hers looked unlocked as a result.

    Reported via website, police gave a crime number and visited within 2 days. They took the footage and along with the same from neighbours.

    Alas the mouth breathers probably only wore their masks for this even and nothing could be taken further. Took us a few weeks to dial back the number of trail cams relocated to the driveway to try and catch them.

  10. #10
    Master John Wall's Avatar
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    I believe the magic words are… “ and it looks like he’s got a gun”

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    I believe the magic words are… “ and it looks like he’s got a gun”

    Or maybe “He didn’t use my preferred pronouns”!

    They look at “non-crime” when it suits them:

    https://www.college.police.uk/app/ma...hate-incidents

  12. #12
    Master bomberman's Avatar
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    I’m not really surprised having had similar issues with vehicle crime in Essex although if they tried to gain access physically, even by trying a door handle that’s deemed an offence as interference with a motor vehicle.

    I feel your pain

    B

  13. #13
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?
    Very poor policing, which is the norm nowadays.
    When I was in the job, we used to have collators who would have recorded this to see if a pattern of these incidents were happening in an area, so extra observations would be carried out to try to catch the culprits.
    Doesn't happen now unfortunately.

  14. #14
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    To be fair the coppers have enough crimes to investigate before they start investigating all 'not-crimes'!
    But we are told that they are using "smart" policing, intelligence-led policing, to home in on criminals and prevent crime in an efficient manner.

    Well, video of a man acting suspiciously in an area with certain types of recent crime is intelligence. That's what intelligence looks like. So one might hope that they would use it when offered it!

    Of course they don't need to investigate a non-crime, but recording intelligence provided by the public, collating it, and using it is something that could very well assist with prevention of crime or good old catching of criminals when crime does occur.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    When I was in the job, we used to have collators who would have recorded this to see if a pattern of these incidents were happening in an area, so extra observations would be carried out to try to catch the culprits.
    Doesn't happen now unfortunately.
    It beggars belief. From what I understand, the automated resources are in place to do this. But they don't seem to be being used.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 6th June 2022 at 23:43.

  15. #15
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Or maybe “He didn’t use my preferred pronouns”!

    They look at “non-crime” when it suits them:

    https://www.college.police.uk/app/ma...hate-incidents
    It does rather seem that some non-crimes are more equal in some influential people's eyes than other non-crimes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Very poor policing, which is the norm nowadays.
    When I was in the job, we used to have collators who would have recorded this to see if a pattern of these incidents were happening in an area, so extra observations would be carried out to try to catch the culprits.
    Doesn't happen now unfortunately.
    Why?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by J J Carter View Post
    If there was hurty words on the internet, you'd have every available vehicle responding
    Ha ha ha!!! Quite true!


    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Or maybe “He didn’t use my preferred pronouns”!
    Very good!


    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    I believe the magic words are… “ and it looks like he’s got a gun”
    Or “The car they arrived in seems to be untaxed!”

  18. #18
    Poor and unprofessional by the call taker. What should have been done is they obtain the best possible description and a direction of travel for the individual, then have this info put out over the local comms channel for obs.

    The Bobbies especially on a night shift love a good old area search for shitbags.



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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    The ironic thing is it would be pretty much impossible to steal a car quietly from our drive, one way in or out, large brick piers and a very solid rising bollard, make the blokes behaviour more strange.

    But our police do seem to be doing less and less
    Doesn’t need to take the car, only the cat…
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Doesn’t need to take the car, only the cat…
    In my case they would be wasting their time, one is electric and the others are very specialised.

    There was a report on the radio this morning saying that car thefts for spares has increased dramatically caused by the parts shortage,
    I have been waiting for a spare part for my car for three months now, it is interesting that the dealers take payment up front and they are still delivering new cars,

  21. #21
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    I have it on very good authority that the police don’t investigate historic crime, so as you didn’t call them at the time...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    To be fair the coppers have enough crimes to investigate before they start investigating all 'not-crimes'!

    .
    They can always find time https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mic...115000812.html

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?
    Maybe a complaint e-mail would be more worthwhile than a whinge on a watch forum.

  24. #24
    Journeyman Adge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liner33 View Post
    That read was bizarre... They must have 'friends' who urged them to investigate this

  25. #25
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    I'm on a Facebook group for residents in my neighbourhood. This happens quite a lot. One person seen at 2am on ring doorbells having a mooch around peoples driveways. Nearly always followed by a post a couple of days later with the sequel video showing the gang come for their catalytic converter. The only time I've seen police turn up was when a confrontation happened and the gang got violent and threatened the home owner. They weren't caught though.

    CCTV/Ring doorbells make no difference, they don't care as I assume they know nothing happens even if there is video footage. Must be too difficult to investigate even with faces.

  26. #26
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    We offered our ring video to the old bill when a cat converter was nicked earlier this year. The car owner, (a neighbour a few doors down) was thankful for the offer but the police did not want to know.
    Ring images are very clear and you could make out the guys faces but no, it was not wanted. They gave her a crime number, said claim on your insurance and sent her a patronising email on how to protect your property - including CCTV.
    The police are under staffed and under funded but largely can’t be bothered in my experience. (I have dealt with a few excellent cops recently, but they are in the minority IMO) Morale is through the floor.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 7th June 2022 at 10:02.

  27. #27
    lets face it, unless someone walks into a police station and says ''i just robbed a bank heres the video of me doing it '' - this is the norm these days , the police are more ad hoc tax collectors - thats not including the levels of corruption in each areas forces, the latest being the met with the partygate scandal and not wanting to investigate due to lack of evidence (even thou there were multiple pictures in multiple papers showing it and the fact police are stationed outside the place 24/7 ).

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pugster View Post
    lets face it, unless someone walks into a police station and says ''i just robbed a bank heres the video of me doing it '' - this is the norm these days , the police are more ad hoc tax collectors - thats not including the levels of corruption in each areas forces, the latest being the met with the partygate scandal and not wanting to investigate due to lack of evidence (even thou there were multiple pictures in multiple papers showing it and the fact police are stationed outside the place 24/7 ).
    Out of the two I'd much rather them try to investigate some dodgy bloke on your property at 2am than some dodgy bloke holding a glass of wine.

  29. #29
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugster View Post
    …and the fact police are stationed outside the place 24/7 ).
    A point conveniently glossed over.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugster View Post
    lets face it, unless someone walks into a police station and says ''i just robbed a bank heres the video of me doing it '' - this is the norm these days , the police are more ad hoc tax collectors - thats not including the levels of corruption in each areas forces, the latest being the met with the partygate scandal and not wanting to investigate due to lack of evidence (even thou there were multiple pictures in multiple papers showing it and the fact police are stationed outside the place 24/7 ).
    Good luck walking in police station these days


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Z1R View Post
    Maybe a complaint e-mail would be more worthwhile than a whinge on a watch forum.
    Now that would be wasting police time

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?
    Well, the call handler would be correct, it is not a crime but suspicious activity - though it would have been good to record this as intel, Might be and idea to contact your local beat manager directly (https://www.essex.police.uk/a/your-area/) or report it online (https://www.essex.police.uk/tua/tell...seen-or-heard/).

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Well, the call handler would be correct, it is not a crime but suspicious activity - though it would have been good to record this as intel, Might be and idea to contact your local beat manager directly (https://www.essex.police.uk/a/your-area/) or report it online (https://www.essex.police.uk/tua/tell...seen-or-heard/).
    Nice idea, it says have a coffee with them once a month (in work time) or dial 101

  34. #34
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    Good luck walking in police station these days


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    No need to walk in. Having watched a few of the 'Auditing Britain' facebook videos, it seems the quickest way to get a crowd of police around you like a swarm of bees is to film the outside of the police station.

  35. #35
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    No need to walk in. Having watched a few of the 'Auditing Britain' facebook videos, it seems the quickest way to get a crowd of police around you like a swarm of bees is to film the outside of the police station.
    His videos are honestly hilarious. He has some stones.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    His videos are honestly hilarious. He has some stones.

    I watch far to much of these videos, DJ Audits is another one, the ones from the USA are crazy good too.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    His videos are honestly hilarious. He has some stones.
    What I don't understand is why the police don't share information to immediately recognise the guy and stop falling into his trap. I understand both he and the DJ Audit guy absolutely hate to have their own identities outed (they have both been doxxed before). You'd think the police could just mention his name a few times in the video he makes and he'd be stuck.

  38. #38
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    Sorry, they're too busy signalling on Twitter and threatening anyone who thinks they're ridiculous with a hate crime investigation.


    northwest spay and neuter

  39. #39
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Why?
    Lack of staff? The area of town I covered, we had 8 officers parade on duty. There's only 2 now I understand.
    The standard of training is poor too.
    The policing we did was called, 'Unit beat policing', so foot patrols, 2 x police cars, collators, CID support.
    At parading on, collator discussions were held where potential crimes were/might be happening which got extra attention, like the OP's gripe.

  40. #40
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Sorry, they're too busy signalling on Twitter and threatening anyone who thinks they're ridiculous with a hate crime investigation.
    Adrian needs to report it on that thread and say he identifies as a male. They’ll be round in a shot.

  41. #41
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    It’d be a different story all together if you were to catch them in the act and give them a slap.

  42. #42
    The last time I lived in London I remember returning home from work to find my bicycle wheel had been liberated. The bicycle was locked and parked in the underground carpark accessible only to residents via electric gates and security cameras were everywhere.

    It wasn’t a big thing but I thought it civic-minded to report it. I walked to the police station, not having a car and now only owning a unicycle. Much waiting and an actively aggressive duty officer later, I left having reported the details and feeling my community duty had been served. Albeit made to feel like I was imposing on the Force's quality time, rather than spending my own.

    I trudged home to find the remainder of the bicycle had been stolen while I was at the police station.

    The police never investigated.

    I bought a replacement bicycle. It was stolen from the same place a week later.

  43. #43
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    Sorry but the fact they took the remaining part while you were reporting the theft of the wheel really tickled me!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    The last time I lived in London I remember returning home from work to find my bicycle wheel had been liberated. The bicycle was locked and parked in the underground carpark accessible only to residents via electric gates and security cameras were everywhere.

    It wasn’t a big thing but I thought it civic-minded to report it. I walked to the police station, not having a car and now only owning a unicycle. Much waiting and an actively aggressive duty officer later, I left having reported the details and feeling my community duty had been served. Albeit made to feel like I was imposing on the Force's quality time, rather than spending my own.

    I trudged home to find the remainder of the bicycle had been stolen while I was at the police station.

    The police never investigated.

    I bought a replacement bicycle. It was stolen from the same place a week later.
    Was it after this that you decided to switch islands?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Sorry but the fact they took the remaining part while you were reporting the theft of the wheel really tickled me!
    It was quite funny in a way, although I probably didn’t see it like that at the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Was it after this that you decided to switch islands?
    Well there is crime here too, but not so much: I asked my Japanese wife about home contents insurance (we only have the mandatory earthquake insurance) and she was confused. Why would someone take our things? Indeed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I had an interesting telephone conversation with Essex police today, we had a CCTV alert this morning, when we reviewed it we found that a man had been walking around our drive checking out the cars at 2:00 this morning, I tried to report it to the police, the person on the phone said “has anything been stolen” I said “no but all the cars are keyless” he replied saying “it isn’t a police matter, trespassing is a civil matter” he refused to record my address just in case something had happen to at an address nearby.

    he did not want a copy of the video, recently two Newish range rovers have been stolen very locally.

    I was surprised at the lack of interest , is this now the norm?

    It may be in Essex but in other areas of the country it is not
    viz:

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...s-early-hours/

    IIRC it is an offence S9 criminal attempts act 1981 vehicle interference if my old BOC is correct.

    B

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    It may be in Essex but in other areas of the country it is not
    viz:

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...s-early-hours/

    IIRC it is an offence S9 criminal attempts act 1981 vehicle interference if my old BOC is correct.

    B
    Depends on whether "checking out" as reported by the OP means physical interference or just looking at cars.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Depends on whether "checking out" as reported by the OP means physical interference or just looking at cars.
    agreed :-)

    if that is how he reported it (as just looking - that is not arrestable) - the call handler did their job.
    Last edited by Brian; 9th June 2022 at 11:55.

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