Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by superthrust
The ensure the listing is an accurate reflection of the watch not the accuracy of the watch.
It can be, absolutely.
Lying by omission, also known as a continuing misrepresentation or quote mining, occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes the failure to correct pre-existing misconceptions. For example, when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly, but does not mention that a fault was reported during the last service, the seller lies by omission. It may be compared to dissimulation. An omission is when a person tells most of the truth, but leaves out a few key facts that therefore, completely obscures the truth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
The ensure the listing is an accurate reflection of the watch not the accuracy of the watch.
Another little update...local AD received the watch from Tudor today 14 days after requesting its return.
I think my earlier quote from local AD about watch being 're-assembled' has now gained some clarity as what it means. The watch has had the bezel fixed and the movement serviced! Appears to have been a misunderstanding at Tudor.
I still think the bezel is stiff but nowhere near as bad as when I submitted it for a warranty repair.
They haven't touched the case or bracelet and now I'm looking carefully at it, the case has been re-finished and the graining on the strap / clasp doesn't run parallel - slightly off but it's obvious now.
Still no warranty, not even the two year service warranty...nothing at all. So off it goes to eBay's authenticator tomorrow for SNAD return.
eBay returns team have been spot on and no issues with delays in returning the watch - very good and confidence inspiring.
Apparently 3-5 days for a decision. Fingers crossed and all that!
Notice the seller of this watch has a few others on offer, including a Tudor or two, strangely no mention of outstanding warranty (there should be) Suspect his 'watchmaker' might have fettled them as well!
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Sounds like a result is in the offing, then?
So - the seller is getting the watch back with repaired bezel and serviced movement? He should be ecstatic !!!
I'm not saying anything about it. It's not got a warranty of any description and that's why it's going back - no reason to tell seller anything else and muddy the waters. Just be pleased to see an end to this (hopefully!)
Agree, playing Devil's advocate, should really go back in the condition received - sure Tudor won't have but what if someone else had bodged the service?
I guess OP did say the bezel turned when he received it, so it sounds like it is in the same condition as when received.
No way should there be any stiffness in that bezel. Kind of worrying that there is still residual stiffness even after Tudor looked at it. Definitely one to return!
What's the sellers eBay user name? Will be one to avoid in the future when I'm looking for a blue 58
Hang on, am I missing something? The issue is the seller omitted to tell you something. And now you’ve had work done on his watch and you’re not going to tell him?
What if he happened to be reading this thread? Isn’t this part of the forum public?
Agreed. No need to muddy the waters, you've done nothing wrong here and a full refund is the right outcome.
I think you are to be honest.
He's not had work done. He's sent the watch to the manufacturer in an attempt to use the warranty the seller told him existed for the watch. The manufacturer subsequently told him it's had a naff 3rd party job done on it and the warranty is invalid. If the manufacturer fixed a bezel and serviced a movement while it was there, on nobody's instruction, it's sod all to do with the buyer and everything to do with the dodgy warranty position.
Meanwhile it's very difficult to equate not mentioning a dodgy repair job to not mentioning a full manufacturer movement service...
Bottom line, he's returning the watch in better condition than received, and the reason it's in better condition and still getting returned is actually zero to do with the OP. If the warranty etc was in place as it should have been, this situation wouldn't have arisen. So IMO OP is doing the right, moral and reasonable thing here.
I see your point, it shouldn't change anything though. As I said earlier the deciding factor in buying was the 4 years remaining warranty - clearly high lighted in his advert. Because of 3rd party refinishing, by him or his watchmaker, the warranty is void and I'm rejecting it.
I really don't have an issue with telling him. As eBay have advised me to not communicate with him any further, I'll let eBay know.
The work has been done by Tudor, I don't see a problem with the quality of the work?
I didn't ask for Tudor to do the work...do you, or anyone else here think I should cancel the return perhaps and live with a recently serviced watch without a warranty on a watch that I paid a little more the usual going rate for? Bit of a dilemma developing here...
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Nope. Just return it. Don't offer more info than you need to.
The Tudor situation is not your doing, it's down to the dodgy warranty position. Return it, be free of it and don't offer up information that can only be used to potentially harm your claim. While no reasonably informed person could conclude the watch is worse off for having been fixed by Tudor, you can't rely on Joe Bloggs at eBay customer service having an inkling about what any of this means.
Tudor don't really come out of this whole episode very well, do they? They won't stand by a newish (still within new watch warranty period) watch, or the service that they have performed on it.
I also wonder why, if they do not regard it covered under warranty, they have serviced it free of charge? (The bezel fix I can sort of understand - the act of removing and refitting it might have been sufficient to free it up).
Politely disagree. Tudor didn't mess with the watch, a 3rd party did, and the OP has confirmed he can see the evidence of this himself. No scaled company can reasonably operate a warranty without some basic rules, and not having unauthorised 3rd party work done on the watch during the warranty period seems imminently sensible. Warranty is there to protect against faults that occur with the watch, not faults that are created by 3rd party intervention. Break the conditions and the warranty is void.
Seems they jumped the gun by fixing/servicing without having the customer agreed to pay the fee, but that's got to fall on the 'happy' mistake list right? As for no warranty on the service, put simply there's been no work paid for to provide warranty on. Warranty costs money. OP confirmed earlier in the thread that Tudor were offering a 2 year warranty on the paid service option.
LOL, what a comedy of errors (even if it doesn't seem very funny if it's your money!). A bonus bezel fix and movement service!
Let's hope that neither Stoll (authenticators) nor the seller put up any complaints about all the work done. Obviously they shouldn't complain, it's actually been improved, but one never knows.
Yes, agree with this.
Stick with the plan. The OP paid for a watch under manufacturer's warranty and still doesn't have this. The watch has come back from the AD and, as planned, should be sent back. The servicing and bezel fix are merely a happy accident but don't change the key warranty situation.
Add no more information. (Unless specifically asked for it in a manner where not providing the info would prejudice receiving the refund, which would only be the case if eBay specifically asked for the info as a prerequisite for the refund).
Last edited by markrlondon; 21st June 2022 at 09:19.
Can’t believe this thread is still alive.
The watch was sold with a Tudor warranty and was delivered without a Tudor warranty.
The authentication process or a tag being removed has nothing to do with it. Even if you left the tag on Rolex would have removed it for their initial inspection and quote.
Be patient. :-) The return process has to play out. Things take time. Until it's complete there will be uncertainties along the way.
I don’t have any sympathy for the seller. He’s clearly a (pretty poor) amateur dealer. He created this situation and OP had no control over the subsequent turn of events. The amateur dealer needs to chalk this up to experience and take a hit on his profits…I’m sure his other sales will have made up for this.
I do have some sympathy for the vendor as I think it seems likely that he probably did not know that the Tudor warranty had been voided. It isn't necessarily obvious that external work would do this (but we know better now).
However, sympathy is irrelevant.
(Resistance is futile, as well... )
Sympathy or not, the OP got a watch that was not as described (i.e. no manufacturer's warranty) and so a refund is properly due.
A final update...all sorted out and refund eventually arrived.
WRT the 'bonus' service and bezel repair by Tudor - I was confident in an outcome being achieved in my favour with the warranty being voided. With my understanding that the authenticator was the arbiter in deciding whether or not the watch was SNAD I enclosed a letter with the watch telling them the watch had been serviced due to a misunderstanding. Also forwarded Tudors report on the watch and as a consequence of the polishing the warranty was no longer valid on the watch - major issue for me.
It took longer than the advised 3-5 days to get the refund...possibly some to and fro'ing between eBay/ Tudor/authenticator?
While all this was going on I spotted a 3 month old GMT on sale with Hackett Watches. Had a natter with Dominic (lovely fellow) and explained my situation and he agreed to hold the watch until eBay refund arrived, cost me just a few pounds more than my eBay watch too!
This arrived last Friday - looks barely worn and I'm pleased as punch. Hasn't been polished either!
Hugely appreciate all your contributions and advice - uncharted territory for me and happily a just decision was reached. Thank you :)
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Sounds like a great result, that last picture looks great!
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Great result. Dom is a good guy and seems like.it ended well. You now have a watch you can enjoy stress free.
Great result and outcome. Enjoy the new purchase.
I was wondering how this had worked out, good result.
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Second this Dom is a great guy. And well done on having a stress free watch.
Wonderful, excellent outcome. Well done for sticking with it.
Great outcome.
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
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