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Thread: Champions league final

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    So what happened last week was the fault of the Liverpool and Madrid fans? And the French police/residents werenít at fault?
    I'm sure that if the exact same events occurred but to fans of a French team playing in London there would be much blame here on the British handling of it and the French fans would be automatically be considered totally innocent.
    Last edited by Ruggertech; 4th June 2022 at 08:57.

  2. #302
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    Trouble with fans getting into Stade de
    France last night for the France / Denmark game. Picture show thousand of people bottled necked outside trying to get it.

    Must all be Liverpool fans without tickets


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  3. #303
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    Ryan, take a look at this and then apologise:

    https://twitter.com/le_Parisien/stat...urope-61685718

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Ryan, take a look at this and then apologise:

    https://twitter.com/le_Parisien/stat...urope-61685718
    More chance of Salah getting to give up all his personal accolades to replay the Champions League final!

  5. #305
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    Always the same in Paris
    Huge gangs of North African youths looking for trouble
    Itís been happening since at least as far back as 98 World Cup
    Brussels is similar for it.
    Just avoid .


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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Always the same in Paris
    Huge gangs of North African youths looking for trouble
    Itís been happening since at least as far back as 98 World Cup
    Brussels is similar for it.
    Just avoid .


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    Is it just a Paris problem or a France problem?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Is it just a Paris problem or a France problem?
    I would say Paris mainly because of the huge estates surrounding the city.

    Lots of poverty, little government sympathy, a brutal, largely racist police force and itís no wonder trouble kicks off. I imagine the police had no inclination to get involved because of the risk of inciting riots.

    Iím sure someone French, who lives in Paris, can correct me if Iím wrong.

    My now wife worked in Paris for a year back in the 90s and on one visit I vividly remember a young man behind me in a supermarket queue suddenly ranting to us in English about Algerians. I had no idea what he was talking about but over the years I learned there is no love lost between some French and their former colony. Same with their other former African colonies.

    This is not an attack on the French btw. I love France and have missed visiting there since Covid. It has the same problems as any large multi-cultural country with a colonial past, especially in the dense urban areas. But can you imagine local youths being able to congregate in numbers, with weapons and get away with beating and robbing fans after a cup final over here? I canít.

    As for blaming fans and ticket forgery. Shameful.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Is it just a Paris problem or a France problem?
    Sorry to break it to you but Brussels is not in France (You know, Brussel, its stadium... rings a bell?)
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  9. #309
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    If that is indeed what happened and the chaos caused was due to poor policing and organisation then for sure I regret my comments about Liverpool fans and apologies for any offence caused.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Is it just a Paris problem or a France problem?
    I went to PSG v Chelsea in 2004 and there were large local gangs looking for trouble then but it seemed mostly football-related, i.e. no gangs simply out on the rob. Didn't have any problem in Bordeaux in 2009.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Sorry to break it to you but Brussels is not in France (You know, Brussel, its stadium... rings a bell?)
    Ha ha yes I am aware of that, I was more interested in the issue in France being a countrywide problem or a Parisian issue.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I would say Paris mainly because of the huge estates surrounding the city.
    Think similar in other big cities like Marseille, Lyon.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Ha ha yes I am aware of that, I was more interested in the issue in France being a countrywide problem or a Parisian issue.
    I am sure you were aware of it. You may even remember what the name of the stadium was in 1985.
    Itís a football issue, but not only. English fans had a bad reputation before 1985. Not just them of course, but they did. And it was true in the UK as well (Millwall).
    Then there was the Heysel.
    The result was that English fans shouldered the bulk of the blame. As always, it was unfair because it was a bunch of drunken thugs that caused the issue, not ę*the fans*Ľ as a whole. But thatís how it was.
    It also meant that international football games involving a British team (I donít think they differentiate much between UK and England) have been policed ever since with the Heysel in mind. It may be unfortunate but the same thugs made sure to give booster shots to European polices every now and then. So I fully understand that normal, decent English football fans believe they have been treated with undue harshness every time they visited, be it France, Belgium, Italy, etc.
    Now it is obvious that the French authorities were not prepared as they should have been, and improvisation in those circumstances is always likely to go pear shaped. It is also obvious they were not expecting the local thugs to prey upon the fans, with the same prejudices (theyíll be drunk and cannot afford to be armed).
    Again, the ongoing enquiry will hopefully highlight the multiple failings of the security services.
    But do not underestimate the legacy you carry around every time you travel.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I am sure you were aware of it. You may even remember what the name of the stadium was in 1985.
    Itís a football issue, but not only. English fans had a bad reputation before 1985. Not just them of course, but they did. And it was true in the UK as well (Millwall).
    Then there was the Heysel.
    The result was that English fans shouldered the bulk of the blame. As always, it was unfair because it was a bunch of drunken thugs that caused the issue, not ę*the fans*Ľ as a whole. But thatís how it was.
    It also meant that international football games involving a British team (I donít think they differentiate much between UK and England) have been policed ever since with the Heysel in mind. It may be unfortunate but the same thugs made sure to give booster shots to European polices every now and then. So I fully understand that normal, decent English football fans believe they have been treated with undue harshness every time they visited, be it France, Belgium, Italy, etc.
    Now it is obvious that the French authorities were not prepared as they should have been, and improvisation in those circumstances is always likely to go pear shaped. It is also obvious they were not expecting the local thugs to prey upon the fans, with the same prejudices (theyíll be drunk and cannot afford to be armed).
    Again, the ongoing enquiry will hopefully highlight the multiple failings of the security services.
    But do not underestimate the legacy you carry around every time you travel.
    You make may good and totally valid points made, I am certainly not of those who defends the actions of all Liverpool fans come what may. To a degree I can also sympathise with fans of other teams feeling the actions of Liverpool fans have had a detrimental effect on them following their respective teams around Europe. I concede that the thugish actions of the selfish, often drunk, minority have meant that all British fans are stereotyped and treated somewhat harshly by the rest of the world.

    I do not however understand fans from other British teams being quick to jump on to this stereotyping bandwagon and unfairly forming judgements, throwing baseless and slanderous accusations towards all fans of LFC.

    It is sadly true that the British football fan, generally speaking, is known by the actions of the foolish few who have defined the kind of perception the majority hold about us, however this is not solely down to the Liverpool fans and your Millwall example is a good point in case.

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  16. #316
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    Innocent mistake obviously!

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Pricks

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Quelle surprise!

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Are they saying itís automatically deleted after seven days unless somebody requests the tapes ? The article isnít clear.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Are they saying itís automatically deleted after seven days unless somebody requests the tapes ? The article isnít clear.
    Articles on there can only loosely be described as journalism. It's a terrible website I have to admit the quality of articles is horrifying.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Are they saying itís automatically deleted after seven days unless somebody requests the tapes ? The article isnít clear.
    All CCTV is automatically deleted unless there is a reason to keep it such as investigations/criminal investigations. In this case, they are suggesting they have allowed it to lapse/delete because the authorities investigating the event and the individual cases havenít requested it.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/cctv-gerald-darmanin-champions-league-french-stade-de-france-b2097681.html?amp
    Last edited by GMC41; 10th June 2022 at 05:51.

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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    That is genuinely funny. :-)

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    All CCTV is automatically deleted unless there is a reason to keep it such as investigations/criminal investigations. In this case, they are suggesting they have allowed it to lapse/delete because the authorities investigating the event and the individual cases havenít requested it.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...97681.html?amp
    OK , makes sense .
    But arenít Merseyside Police carrying out an investigation into the trouble ?
    Couldnít they have made a request for it ?
    The interview I saw seemed to suggest that the investigation was still focussing on fake tickets and not the violence outside the ground .
    Seems everyone is too busy covering their own backsides to ever get to the truth which is a very dangerous situation .

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    OK , makes sense .
    But arenít Merseyside Police carrying out an investigation into the trouble ?
    Couldnít they have made a request for it ?
    The interview I saw seemed to suggest that the investigation was still focussing on fake tickets and not the violence outside the ground .
    Seems everyone is too busy covering their own backsides to ever get to the truth which is a very dangerous situation .
    Not sure how the Merseyside police investigation is structured but given that the French authorities are supposed to be carrying out an investigation and there has been multiple complaints of robbery and assault you would think the first action would be to retain any relevant footage.
    Last edited by GMC41; 10th June 2022 at 12:08.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Not sure how the Merseyside police investigation is structured but given that the French authorities are supposed to be carrying out an investigation and there has been multiple complaints of robbery and assault you would think the first action would be to retain any relevant footage.
    Thereís just going to ba a cover up isnít there ?
    UEFA canít be found guilty, Liverpool fans canít be found guilty and the authorities, SDF , local police wonít face any further action. There will be a couple of slapped wrists and the odd recommendation for future use.
    The stadium will be quietly put on the Ď do not useí list and football fans will go back to being pariahs .

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    ...you would think the first action would be to retain any relevant footage.
    Or delete it before ineptitude and brutality are exposed.

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Thereís just going to ba a cover up isnít there ?
    UEFA canít be found guilty, Liverpool fans canít be found guilty and the authorities, SDF , local police wonít face any further action. There will be a couple of slapped wrists and the odd recommendation for future use.
    The stadium will be quietly put on the Ď do not useí list and football fans will go back to being pariahs .
    I like the way you are throwing the Liverpool fans into the mix with UEFA, the French authorities and the local police. I thought that was what you were alluding to when you mentioned Merseyside Police in your previous post.

    If there is a cover up then it isnít to protect Liverpool fans.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    I like the way you are throwing the Liverpool fans into the mix with UEFA, the French authorities and the local police. I thought that was what you were alluding to when you mentioned Merseyside Police in your previous post.

    If there is a cover up then it isnít to protect Liverpool fans.
    Eh ?
    On the defensive much ?
    Do you honestly believe there were no fake tickets and /or Liverpool fans jibbing in ?
    I didnít say the cover up was to protect Liverpool fans did I ?
    Following Ivanís posts about fans just sitting / standing where they want , Iíd be genuinely interested in your POV .

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Eh ?
    On the defensive much ?
    Do you honestly believe there were no fake tickets and /or Liverpool fans jibbing in ?
    I didnít say the cover up was to protect Liverpool fans did I ?
    Following Ivanís posts about fans just sitting / standing where they want , Iíd be genuinely interested in your POV .
    Iím not defensive, donít support Liverpool. Just pointing out your obvious bias. Itís been evident throughout the thread.

    Re: the fake tickets, if only theyíd have saved the CCTV of the 40,000 holding them eh?

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Iím not defensive, donít support Liverpool. Just pointing out your obvious bias. Itís been evident throughout the thread.

    Re: the fake tickets, if only theyíd have saved the CCTV of the 40,000 holding them eh?
    So you didnít answer my question then .
    Well done .
    So Iím not a Liverpool cheerleader , great . But Iím a football fan who travels to watch the game . Actions from the other week have consequences going forward , no ? English football fans are badly treated wherever they go ( Germany aside) and there should be a concerted effort to stop this .
    Iím not sure how I can put this across without you pointing out my anti Liverpool bias .

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    So you didnít answer my question then .
    Well done .
    So Iím not a Liverpool cheerleader , great . But Iím a football fan who travels to watch the game . Actions from the other week have consequences going forward , no ? English football fans are badly treated wherever they go ( Germany aside) and there should be a concerted effort to stop this .
    Iím not sure how I can put this across without you pointing out my anti Liverpool bias .
    Blame the French authorities then. Iím not a cheerleader either but the way the event was managed was f**kin disgusting.

    Didnít answer your question, not relevant.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    Blame the French authorities then. Iím not a cheerleader either but the way the event was managed was f**kin disgusting.

    Didnít answer your question, not relevant.
    I do blame the French authorities, Iíve not hidden that . I blame the Stadium , the pricks that work the gates and the locals who attacked Liverpool fans .
    Iíll ask again . Are the Liverpool fans who bought and sold fake tickets completely innocent ?
    IsKlopp in any way responsible for thousands of people travelling without tickets ?
    People could have been killed and if questions arenít answered this time then in the future they will .

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  35. #335
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    Yes I posted the same from the BBC on the incorrect thread, funny how some were very quick to blame the Liverpool fans.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Yes I posted the same from the BBC on the incorrect thread, funny how some were very quick to blame the Liverpool fans.
    It was the easiest thing to do I guess...

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    It was the easiest thing to do I guess...
    Of course
    Now whereís that extra serving of humble pieÖ.

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanlad View Post
    Of course
    Now whereís that extra serving of humble pieÖ.
    There wouldn't be anything like enough to go around...

  39. #339
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    Interestingly they mentioned the "outdated" image of English hooligans the police had as one of the reasons behind the way they acted.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    There wouldn't be anything like enough to go around...
    🤣🤣🤣

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