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Thread: Champions league final

  1. #201

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSB View Post
    The franchise would say that, they need to show they have their affairs in order with the rugby coming up.

    Also from the BBC

    http://Champions League final: BBC r...urope-61632206

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Well said Crammage, a few others including Jim have already alluded to this point. Trying to understand the reasons for this type of behaviour is what everybody should be concentrating on rather than making it a tribal club issue.
    In the 50 years i've been going to football matches the reason is clear. The game attracts a small but significant proportion of minor but habitual criminals. Chaos around stadiums enhances their opportunity to enjoy a failure to pay and the tribal nature of the spectacle football presents also gives them a perfect opportunity to hide in plain sight.

    After the significant organisational triumph of English minor criminals at Euro 2020, it was clear which end of the ground their French counterparts would be heading for.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    As Saint Just demonstrated it doesn't happen with Rugby and it would be great to try and identify why.
    Perhaps the slightly trite and often innacurate saying "rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, and football is a gentleman's game played by thugs" has enough of a ring of truth to it that it extends to the supporters also.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanlad View Post
    Mind you, City had such a great season that Pep took them to within 15 minutes of winning nothing all season....

    3 finals and 2 trophies is what a 66% successful rate, or 50% win rate from 4 competitions entered.
    Man City a 25% rate....

    Swings and roundabouts Deanlad, we were never off the top spot all season (still frustrating to chuck away a 14 point lead).

    Now take this as tongue in cheek... I can't get too cross with LFC fans as my mrs is one, but when smugly quoting the same stats as above to me for this season my wife wasn't happy when I reminded her that last year while City had a similar season to this year, 2 trophies won and deep runs in all competitions (consistency ) LFC were KO'd in the final 32 of the FA cup, final 16 of the EFL cup, Quarter finalists in the Champ's League and still only limped a third place in the Prem... all after losing a penalty shoot-out to Arsenal in the Community Shield. Ouch. 0/5

    Unfortunately the first game next season will be.... Yep, City v's Liverpool in the Community Shield!! Talk about a must-win for the two managers, that'll be chaos!

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Perhaps the slightly trite and often innacurate saying "rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, and football is a gentleman's game played by thugs" has enough of a ring of truth to it that it extends to the supporters also.
    Worst violence Iíve witnessed first-hand at a Rugby League game was a Wigan fan throwing a sausage roll at me.

    Iíve been to countless away games in my colours, sat in pubs with opposing fans before and after victories and losses in ďmeaninglessĒ fixtures and Finals, Iíve gone to semiís and finals as a neutral with no dog in the fight and always been welcomed.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    Swings and roundabouts Deanlad, we were never off the top spot all season (still frustrating to chuck away a 14 point lead).

    Now take this as tongue in cheek... I can't get too cross with LFC fans as my mrs is one, but when smugly quoting the same stats as above to me for this season my wife wasn't happy when I reminded her that last year while City had a similar season to this year, 2 trophies won and deep runs in all competitions (consistency ) LFC were KO'd in the final 32 of the FA cup, final 16 of the EFL cup, Quarter finalists in the Champ's League and still only limped a third place in the Prem... all after losing a penalty shoot-out to Arsenal in the Community Shield. Ouch. 0/5

    Unfortunately the first game next season will be.... Yep, City v's Liverpool in the Community Shield!! Talk about a must-win for the two managers, that'll be chaos!
    Let’s hope the scousers have tickets this time…….*

































    *this is a joke

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Worst violence Iíve witnessed first-hand at a Rugby League game was a Wigan fan throwing a sausage roll at me.

    Iíve been to countless away games in my colours, sat in pubs with opposing fans before and after victories and losses in ďmeaninglessĒ fixtures and Finals, Iíve gone to semiís and finals as a neutral with no dog in the fight and always been welcomed.
    It wasn't Two Ton Ted from Teddington was it?
    Seriously though, I know exactly what you mean, always perfectly comfortable around and with fans of the opposing side. In fact a couple we met in a pub on match day who were supporting the other team are now our closest friends.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Perhaps the slightly trite and often innacurate saying "rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, and football is a gentleman's game played by thugs" has enough of a ring of truth to it that it extends to the supporters also.
    Football turns seemingly normal people into bell ends.

    See Ryanís posts in this thread. Seems like an ok bloke them comes out with statements like ď hope the scousers donít kill anyone againď etc.

    Football does things to people brains.


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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Football turns seemingly normal people into bell ends.

    See Ryanís posts in this thread. Seems like an ok bloke them comes out with statements like ď hope the scousers donít kill anyone againď etc.

    Football does things to people brains.


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    Certainly seems to, this thread has more than a whiff of the bearpit about it in places.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Let’s hope the scousers have tickets this time…….*
































    *this is a joke
    Ha ha ha, brilliant.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Football turns seemingly normal people into bell ends.

    See Ryanís posts in this thread. Seems like an ok bloke them comes out with statements like ď hope the scousers donít kill anyone againď etc.

    Football does things to people brains.


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    I think thereís some truth in this. Iíve been to hundreds of rugby league matches over the the years and very rarely seen crowd trouble, itís always been an odd isolated incident involving a few drunken idiots but nothing major, opposing fans generally get along OK and mix without problems. Iíve been to around 20 football matches over the years and the contrast in atmosphere and attitudes of fans is different, far more tribal with an Ďus and themí attitude. Iíve never understood this and I never will, itís come to the surface on this thread and one or two contributors need to ask themselves a few questions. I can understand the passion for oneís own team but I donít understand the hatred towards towards rivals, its totally irrational.

    Rivalry is fine but this goes far beyond anything healthy.

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    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...paris-24091586

    Seems City fans too having been complaining about their treatment when abroad. Shame the alleged City fans on this thread can't seem to relate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...paris-24091586

    Seems City fans too having been complaining about their treatment when abroad. Shame the alleged City fans on this thread can't seem to relate.
    Makes you think, ehÖ.

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    UEFA now appear to be changing their tune.

    https://twitter.com/chris78williams/...140395520?s=21

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    UEFA now appear to be changing their tune.

    https://twitter.com/chris78williams/...140395520?s=21
    Social media gives them no hiding place, unlike events back in 1989 when it would be an old hack, pen, notepad, camera,
    and a telephoneÖ.and as proven, made up storiesÖ.

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    The French have stated 95,000 fans turned up to the stadium. 40,000 of these had fake tickets.

    However they state the first security checkpoint only allowed scanned tickets to enter.

    So somehow 95,000 people have got through a scanned security check point with 40,000 of them with fake tickets which leaves 20,000 genuine tickets that were not scanned yet a full capacity ground.

    Makes zero sense and the French seem to be just plucking figured out the air it seems.


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  18. #218
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    Tear gas seems tame after what Rangers fans had to endure in the burning furnace of Seville at the Europa final.
    The stadium vendors ran out of water and then taps were turned off in the toilets.
    Fans had to resort to taking cups of water from the toilet bowls that their fellow fans would have defecated and urinated in beforehand to quench the thirst.
    Supposedly there were a good few dicky tummies on the flights home.
    Even Rangers fans shouldn't have to drink pisswater at the football.
    Shame on you Uefa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    The French have stated 95,000 fans turned up to the stadium. 40,000 of these had fake tickets.

    However they state the first security checkpoint only allowed scanned tickets to enter.

    So somehow 95,000 people have got through a scanned security check point with 40,000 of them with fake tickets which leaves 20,000 genuine tickets that were not scanned yet a full capacity ground.

    Makes zero sense and the French seem to be just plucking figured out the air it seems.


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    Does seem some decidedly dodgy numbers being thrown about.

    I did see reports that many fans didnít actually need to show their tickets until they reached the turnstiles. Others saying that their tickets were marked with a marker pen that was supposed to check the hologram was genuine before being kettled by the police.

    Iíve also seen pictures of the Liverpool end of the stadium during the match showing several of the stairways full of fans as well as the seats. This indicates that there were several hundred inside either with fake tickets or no tickets or simply in the wrong place.

    Then on top of that some clown bragging that he got his father in without a ticket

    I guess that IF there were thousands of fake tickets around and those with them knew they were iffy; they might get there super early to try to get in before the genuine QR / Bar Code gets read.

    Seems France is one of the worst places to go to watch a football match from a British fans perspective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NigeG View Post
    Seems France is one of the worst places to go to watch a football match from a British fans perspective.
    I was reminded of this on Twitter earlier - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/sport1/hi...pe/6386583.stm

    Straight from the playbook.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynam0humm View Post
    I was reminded of this on Twitter earlier - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/sport1/hi...pe/6386583.stm

    Straight from the playbook.
    Wow !!

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigeG View Post
    Does seem some decidedly dodgy numbers being thrown about.

    I did see reports that many fans didnít actually need to show their tickets until they reached the turnstiles. Others saying that their tickets were marked with a marker pen that was supposed to check the hologram was genuine before being kettled by the police.

    Iíve also seen pictures of the Liverpool end of the stadium during the match showing several of the stairways full of fans as well as the seats. This indicates that there were several hundred inside either with fake tickets or no tickets or simply in the wrong place.

    Then on top of that some clown bragging that he got his father in without a ticket

    I guess that IF there were thousands of fake tickets around and those with them knew they were iffy; they might get there super early to try to get in before the genuine QR / Bar Code gets read.

    Seems France is one of the worst places to go to watch a football match from a British fans perspective.


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    Liverpool fans donít sit in their correct seats on European aways. You literally walk up and stand wherever thereís space. Itís been like that for years.


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  23. #223
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    I went to a "professional" football match .............................................. once! It was Leeds versus Bristol City, back in the 1970's. Never been to a "professional" match since. The local school matches are far more entertaining, with people playing for the sport, rather than the money and fame. The "actors and actresses" don't get as much attention at the school matches! You don't need a ticket, or a replica kit!

  24. #224
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    This thread is disgusting and immature on so many fronts, why are you all not in the Bear Pit throwing your crap around???

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Liverpool fans donít sit in their correct seats on European aways. You literally walk up and stand wherever thereís space. Itís been like that for years.


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    Oh come on Ivan , you simply canít condone that surely ?
    That will just lend weight to outsiders, the French Police and whoever might make up this supposed independent inquiry .
    I know what goes on at these matches but the eyes of the world were on tha game the other night .
    Like most with experience have said , the policing there is very poor but there has to be a time when people stand up for themselves and take a bit of responsibility., surely ?
    There were plenty of fakes around , we all know it , but to completely remove the fan base from all blame is not on . The fans who had genuine tickets are the ones you feel for . Theyíve been stitched up by fellow supporters with no regard for anyone but themselves .

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Oh come on Ivan , you simply canít condone that surely ?
    That will just lend weight to outsiders, the French Police and whoever might make up this supposed independent inquiry .
    I know what goes on at these matches but the eyes of the world were on tha game the other night .
    Like most with experience have said , the policing there is very poor but there has to be a time when people stand up for themselves and take a bit of responsibility., surely ?
    There were plenty of fakes around , we all know it , but to completely remove the fan base from all blame is not on . The fans who had genuine tickets are the ones you feel for . Theyíve been stitched up by fellow supporters with no regard for anyone but themselves .
    Canít condone what ? People not sitting in the correct seats ?

    In my whole lifetime of European aways Iíve never sat in my correct seat. Everyone congregates in the front sections.

    I personally just go up the back where itís empty as I prefer a bit of space.

    As for people bunking in, this isnít a new phenomenon, people have bunker in since football began.

    Iíd be surprised if maybe 500 Liverpool fans max bunked in to the final.


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  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Canít condone what ? People not sitting in the correct seats ?

    In my whole lifetime of European aways Iíve never sat in my correct seat. Everyone congregates in the front sections.

    I personally just go up the back where itís empty as I prefer a bit of space.

    As for people bunking in, this isnít a new phenomenon, people have bunker in since football began.

    Iíd be surprised if maybe 500 Liverpool fans max bunked in to the final.
    Yet, the French get the blame!

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Iíd be surprised if maybe 500 Liverpool fans max bunked in to the final.
    Do you include fake tickets in that bunking. And other than a finger in the air, what do you have to justify your figure?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Do you include fake tickets in that bunking. And other than a finger in the air, what do you have to justify your figure?
    Ouch! But quite fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Do you include fake tickets in that bunking. And other than a finger in the air, what do you have to justify your figure?
    You canít get in with a fake ticket, having a fake ticket essentially gets you passed the first checkpoint if they arenít scanned.

    To physically get in the ground you either have to scan a ticket or jump a barrier.

    In all the footage so far theres been a few reds jumping a barrier and the rest is of groups of French / African looking chaps storming the gates and barrier.

    Thereís footage been released today of Liverpool fans being robbed in the queues by literally swarms of French men. Thereís one video weíre about 20 men are holding a Liverpool fan down on the floor and steal his phone and watch.

    My justification for the 500 bunking in is based on going to Liverpool away games for 3 decades. The number of people that actually bunk in is minimal as itís actually a lot harder than people think to do.


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  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    You canít get in with a fake ticket, having a fake ticket essentially gets you passed the first checkpoint if they arenít scanned.

    To physically get in the ground you either have to scan a ticket or jump a barrier.

    In all the footage so far theres been a few reds jumping a barrier and the rest is of groups of French / African looking chaps storming the gates and barrier.

    Thereís footage been released today of Liverpool fans being robbed in the queues by literally swarms of French men. Thereís one video weíre about 20 men are holding a Liverpool fan down on the floor and steal his phone and watch.

    My justification for the 500 bunking in is based on going to Liverpool away games for 3 decades. The number of people that actually bunk in is minimal as itís actually a lot harder than people think to do.


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    Ivan as true as that may be and as experienced as you may be, I think it's fair to concede that Saint Justs 'finger in air' comment is just as valid as your comment about the French 'plucking figures out the air'

    Both are guesses at best and can not be considered undeniable facts.

    I accept however that this is not a new phenomena and any country hosting such a large sports event should have the organisation and security services capable of dealing with such scenario's.

    Whilst fans with fraudulent or no tickets is totally unacceptable, it should have been anticipated and expected by the organisers of any such large event and their heavy handed approach in dealing with something they were ill prepared for is equally not acceptable imho.

  32. #232
    Well the French have inherited the thieving stereotype after what happened after the game. Animals.

  33. #233
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    On a different note the ď singing performance ď
    Just before kick off needs to be scrapped.

    Absolute madness to be doing things like this, nobody wants to listen to a pop performance 5 mins before the final.


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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    On a different note the ď singing performance ď
    Just before kick off needs to be scrapped.

    Absolute madness to be doing things like this, nobody wants to listen to a pop performance 5 mins before the final.


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    I agree too Superbowlesque.

  35. #235
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    It seems figures vary vastly depending on the source but I believe Liverpool was allocated 20,000 seats (please correct me if this is wrong) and Liverpool supporters numbers estimations in Paris vary between 50,000 and 80,000. It appears (but I hope the different enquiries will make that more definite) that a lot of the supporters were converging towards the stadium.
    Since the whole trip is not cheap, it is not unreasonable to suppose they wanted access. Whether they expected touts, had faked tickets or just hoped they could bunk their way in I have no idea but it seems a fact that there were a lot more supporters than ticket holders.
    This is something in Liverpool's court, airlines flying from Liverpool to Paris, coaches, etc. could request tickets for the game, for example. I believe it is essential to reduce as much as possible the numbers of ticketless fans, even though it will always be impossible to stop them altogether.
    That is looking to the future, but it is not meant to be an excuse for what happened.
    The gangs of youths targeting the fans were there. It is difficult to stop French people or residents to move about in their own country so pre-empting those attacks is probably difficult in law. But the police usually knows who they are. One of the issues could be that those in charge of policing the event (gendarmerie) are not those who know those youths. In any case it is something that must be addressed and if necessary heads must roll.
    Access to the stadium must also be reviewed. Unfortunately it was a lot easier for the Parc des Princes where the number of accesses was limited compared to the Stade de France. But even if there needs to be artificial blockages, controls must happen much further away from the stadium. And if there was an issue with policing numbers, this must be addressed urgently, too.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  36. #236
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    Iím just guessing at numbers here, fact was allocation at 20,000 for Liverpool fans, estimated 90 k in Paris, so that leaves what 70 k fans? Obviously some in fan parks, bars etc. but even if there were 35 k fake tickets, youíre looking at a disaster waiting to happen right there.
    I suspect maybe a few thousand fake tickets perhaps, but 2/3 k fake tickets shouldnít cause that amount of chaos.

    My view is the French authorities undercooked it, panicked, kettled, tear gas use etc to try and get under control.

    I canít see any conceivable way 10ís of thousand of extra fans would have purchased that many fake tickets. I would hazard a guess that Liverpool police would get wind of that scale of fraudÖ.

  37. #237

    Champions league final

    Quote Originally Posted by deanlad View Post
    My view is the French authorities undercooked it, panicked, kettled, tear gas use etc to try and get under control.Ö.
    There seems to be a number of contributing factors.

    One of which, the French use CRS or Gendarmerie riot squads to police crowds and itís what they do, poor tactics, easily triggered, belt people with sticks and gas them. I think the French are getting a bit fed up.


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  38. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    On a different note the ď singing performance ď
    Just before kick off needs to be scrapped.

    Absolute madness to be doing things like this, nobody wants to listen to a pop performance 5 mins before the final.


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    It was bloody awful wasnít it?

    Camila Cabello, another wailing American.

    Dreadful and culturally out of place.


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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    There seems to be a number of contributing factors.

    One of which, the French use CRS or Gendarmerie riot squads to police crowds and itís what they do, poor tactics, easily triggered, belt people with sticks and gas them. I think the French are getting a bit fed up.


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    To be fair, they donít mess aroundÖ look at the Gilet Jaune
    riots a couple of years back.

  40. #240
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    I know itís the Daily Mail but - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...cks-thugs.html

  41. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by SlipperySam View Post
    Has someone hacked the Daily Fail website?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Has someone hacked the Daily Fail website?
    Ha ha ha it would seem so.

  43. #243
    Those who were quick to jump to conclusions will find a way to discredit their favourite paper.

  44. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    On a different note the “ singing performance “
    Just before kick off needs to be scrapped.

    Absolute madness to be doing things like this, nobody wants to listen to a pop performance 5 mins before the final.
    She was not happy about the fans chanting during her performance. They were "very rude" apparently. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buz...ue-performance
    Last edited by sprite1275; 31st May 2022 at 19:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It seems figures vary vastly depending on the source but I believe Liverpool was allocated 20,000 seats (please correct me if this is wrong) and Liverpool supporters numbers estimations in Paris vary between 50,000 and 80,000. It appears (but I hope the different enquiries will make that more definite) that a lot of the supporters were converging towards the stadium.
    Since the whole trip is not cheap, it is not unreasonable to suppose they wanted access. Whether they expected touts, had faked tickets or just hoped they could bunk their way in I have no idea but it seems a fact that there were a lot more supporters than ticket holders.
    This is something in Liverpool's court, airlines flying from Liverpool to Paris, coaches, etc. could request tickets for the game, for example. I believe it is essential to reduce as much as possible the numbers of ticketless fans, even though it will always be impossible to stop them altogether.
    That is looking to the future, but it is not meant to be an excuse for what happened.
    The gangs of youths targeting the fans were there. It is difficult to stop French people or residents to move about in their own country so pre-empting those attacks is probably difficult in law. But the police usually knows who they are. One of the issues could be that those in charge of policing the event (gendarmerie) are not those who know those youths. In any case it is something that must be addressed and if necessary heads must roll.
    Access to the stadium must also be reviewed. Unfortunately it was a lot easier for the Parc des Princes where the number of accesses was limited compared to the Stade de France. But even if there needs to be artificial blockages, controls must happen much further away from the stadium. And if there was an issue with policing numbers, this must be addressed urgently, too.
    The Liverpool manager encouraged fans to travel without tickets.

  46. #246
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    The Liverpool manager encouraged fans to travel without tickets.
    Just like the Chief Exec did in 2007 to Athens.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    The Liverpool manager encouraged fans to travel without tickets.
    To Paris, not the stadium.

    I note the French originally said it was fans turning up late then when it became apparent that was bollocks they blamed it on ďfake ticketsĒ. Real fans also had problems but havenít seen the French excuse for that yet.

    Have a listen to this from the same Sky Reporter I shared earlier in the thread;

    https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/st...651231233?s=21

    Another view.

    https://twitter.com/david_conn/statu...678473217?s=21

    Iíve also just read that the Interior Minister stated that tear gas was used to ďcreate spaceĒ to stop people getting crushed. This is the same crush the French Police created.

    It beggars belief.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMC41 View Post
    To Paris, not the stadium.

    .

    Irresponsible to say the least. I think it was the cause of the panic by the French Police as they were concerned with how many fans were in Paris. In future if you ainít got a ticket you ainít flying.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    Irresponsible to say the least. I think it was the cause of the panic by the French Police as they were concerned with how many fans were in Paris. In future if you ainít got a ticket you ainít flying.
    That is illogical. If they are fans why else are they in Paris but for the game? Did the incidents happen in town or around the stadium?
    It was grossly irresponsible to invite fans to go to Paris ticketless. Regardless of the faults in the security, which I hope will be established clearly, this at least should be clear.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Gťrald Darmanin the interior minister in France is being ridiculed by his own media and fellow MP's for his apparent outrageous lies in relation to the events that occurred that night.

    "If we prefer to believe the explanations of the minister of the interior, it would be more like a detective enigma to make the best classic of Agatha Christie, Gaston Leroux, James Cain or Maurice Leblanc pale in comparison: at security point A, 40,000 Liverpool supporters "without a ticket or with false tickets" were supposedly present," Dov Alfon wrote in the paper.

    "But at security point B, less than 800m away, only 2,800 false tickets were scanned.

    "Where and how could the 37,200 missing free-riders vanish? Did they disappear off through a secret tunnel under the crypt of the nearby basilica (Maurice Leblanc)?"

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