Not sure whether this topic has been brought up before. But what brought me to this was browsing through my Instagram feed. I clicked on what I thought was a Seiko tuna, but it was some god awful modified tuna shroud with a green alpinist looking green dial.
It got me thinking....fine modify your watch if you want but at what point does modifying/franken/faking a watch with a brand name start to devalue that particular brand. In my experience I've seen it less with Swiss brands. Never seen citizens but Seiko seems to crop up in Patek nautilus cases, submariner cases and even panerai cases. I know these are fake but can't help shake the thought around my original question of devaluing a brand name.
I know a couple of watches have popped up on SC and have been panned by members and others that are fully declared for what they are. You say potato I say potato situation.
Just me or does anyone else hold strong opinions on this topic.
Quite a strong culture of watch modding and building. Usually using Seiko auto movements so people use Seiko faces or fake Seiko faces.
I think it's quite cool and have seen some lovely examples.
Don't think they claim to be anything other than what they are and keeps people interested in watches.
I wouldn't do it myself but anyone has the right to do anything to their own watch.
There's a massive watch modding community around the world and some fantastic watches have been created. Some abominations too! Personally, and I've said this when mods have been flamed on SC, as long as a watch is being represented accurately I don't mind their existence at all. In fact I'm doing that right now.
Some, although not many, will end up being worth more than the sum of their parts. Most likely you'll lose money on them. For me though that's not what it's about. I've always loved the Seiko 6105-8110 but prices have always been ahead of my purchasing ability. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to enjoy the aesthetics of that watch? I don't believe so. I've bought the best quality case, movement and dial I can find and will have them assembled. I'll keep an eye out for a good quality 'Lock' crown too.
If in the unlikely event anyone ever asks "is that a 6105?" I'll explain that it isn't, why it isn't and how I had to made.
Cool? Some of them yes for sure. And it does keep people interested I suppose.
Cannolis point on enjoying the form for personal satisfaction hits it a bit more to the point. Are we at a cross road of there fake and then there's fake. Most people probably won't take a double look at a 6105 or 6309 or even the new turtle iterations. But those that will are likely to say something and it opens dialogue and makes for a more sympathetic approach to creating a watch in a way.
I think the point I was getting at was from an outsider's view. Someone who doesn't know much about Seiko history in this example and makes assumptions that all they are good for is frankenwatches.
Originally Posted by r.dawson
I think it’s a natural consequence of having abundant and interchangeable spare parts. I’ve seen people doing it with omega quite a bit, eg changing dials on speedmasters, bezels on seamasters, or clasps generally. I’m quite a fan of mods which only use OEM parts, but change the look of a watch subtly. I’ve been working on a Seiko one myself for ages. So a standard Moonwatch which has been modded with an OEM dial to look like a mitsukoshi one, holds more value IMO.
Modding watches with aftermarket parts is a slightly different affair and I find that when it’s made to look like a different model altogether, it loses its appeal to me. That’s homage territory, or worse, fakes. There’s a line between the two, I’m not saying they’re the same but neither float my boat. Also, no offence to those that do go in for it, all a matter of personal taste. However, to me, an SKX with a yacht master bezel, Mercedes hands etc holds less value than an original one.
All my opinion of course.
I’ve modified lots of seiko watches, as well as building some franken ones out of various parts. It’s really fun to build something that doesn’t exist, you can take parts from all your favourite watches and build something truly unique. Think my next one will be a blend of Seiko and an AP ROO.
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I have a Yobokies modified Seiko, I love it and tbh it’s never crossed my mind that others may get worked up over it. I bought it from him late 2013.
There's a few members here that get all bent out of shape over them but the majority of us are fine and see them for what they are.
Some owners are just very protective of the brands they buy into and don’t want to believe that anyone can do anything to improve the watches that they’ve spent thousands on. Funny thing is that you can guarantee that those that have been most critical of Bamford etc mods would be first on the list if Rolex themselves brought out a blacked out Sub. A few years ago those same people would be up in arms if someone dared to come on here and try to sell an OP with a repainted dial in a garish turquoise colour.
The likes of Seiko mods don’t promote such uproar, probably because they are much cheaper to begin with and don’t promote such irrational levels of fandom.
I think Dan has hit the nail here, almost.
I have a modded seiko which I bough from LTF on here and I love it, 007 with bleached Pepsi and dive bezels.
That said, ive also bleached and baked Rolex bezels, so there's a bit of a theme going on.
I wouldn't mod a ceramic Rolex, or do anything further than bezel tinkering on a 5 digit ref.
I dont have the skills to mod anyway, but if I did, I would more than likely tinker with seikos until the cows came home, as that seems to me to be part of the enjoyment of them. Plenty available, not cost prohibitive, and nobody is going to get a bug up their butt*
*apart from those who suffer from that affliction anyway.
I've got a couple of modded 'Fifty Five Fathoms' Seiko 5s.
They're a bit of fun and were enjoyable (damaged hand on the latest notwithstanding!) to do and to wear.
They're cheap (or they were!) watches, certainly not 'devalued' in their own right by the mods, which I think definitely improve on the original.
Does it undermine Seiko? Is it wrong that a watch that has a Seiko case, crown and movement has Seiko on the dial if the dial and hands and bezel insert aren't Seiko parts? What about a different bracelet or a non-OEM strap?
Is a Mercedes with an aftermarket spoiler, ICE system or exhaust undermining Mercedes?
I neither know nor care, to be honest - I don't imagine Seiko will be too bent out of shape about what I did to my watch either.
I don't feel the urge to mod any of my other watches, though, I tend to buy watches I like and leave them alone (switching to a strap excepted - I often don't get on with bracelets).
M
Last edited by snowman; 23rd May 2022 at 11:41.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I don’t see an issue with modding a watch to make it some thing you really want. You are free to do what you want with your property. As long as you are not doing it deceive/ pass it off with the aim of defrauding somebody.
Any mod will likely devalue a watch as you would need to find someone who really likes the modification you have made when selling it on. Being clear on its origin / make up is also essential. Servicing also needs to be considered on higher value items. A mod may make it impossible to service via the maker and they may not sell parts to 3rd parties.
Obviously there are trade mark issues if using parts with a makers name on them that need to be considered. Sometimes there is no other alternative if parts are scarce but restoration should always use original parts if available.
Fitted sapphire crystals to a couple of my watches and personally think they look a lot better for it and will hopefully never scratch.
Having said that these are watches I will never sell anyway.
This is an interesting and timely discussion. So many Seiko mods have popped up on my Instagram over the last months, and it’s far from the changing of bezel inserts and other minor mods that I dabbled in 10 years ago. Some of the modifications look incredible!
I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a Seikonaut, as some are calling them. I love the shape and style, and unless I pivot to a life of lucrative crime I don’t think I’ll ever get to strap a Patek to my wrist. For me, that Seiko mod have little to do with fakery, and all to do with getting to enjoy a watch design that’s unobtainable for normal human beings.
But in the end, I’ve not bought it. There’s just something at the back of my head that’s stopping me, and I’m back looking at the more expensive brands that I used to enjoy. Perhaps there is a small part of me that think it is fakery, and perhaps I’d feel better about it if I modified it myself. And perhaps I should just try one.
Seiko never made a model in that style and it doesn't say PP on the dial therefore it definitely isn't fakery. Get one and enjoy wearing it and looking at it.
You're of course totally right. It's certainly not fakery as in trying to be something it's not, and the idea that a £400-500 Seiko mod devalues the Aquanaut is pretty silly.
My thought it contrary. Making mods of watches that look like a PP and slapping seiko on to that modded watch devalues Seiko to the un-initiated. SO for that type of person could they be lead to think well Seiko is only good enough to be used imitate the super expensive brands.
Combining two threads, the watch I would buy if the market collapsed would be a Paul Newman modded modern Daytona, from Blaken, Bamford, Project-X or whereever. Changed dial and crown guards removed. With the market the way they are I regret not buying a Bamford through work at £12.5k.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch. The uninitiated wouldn’t give a monkey’s arse either way. Joe Public thinks Seiko is a cheapo H Samuel brand anyway.
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