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Thread: Reality check please - Service WR check suitability

  1. #1
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Reality check please - Service WR check suitability

    Hi
    My Tutima Commando II is in for a service, independently, not at Tutima.
    It is a 2001 watch, titanium, 200m WR rated.
    I got a notification today showing that the movement service was complete, with photos, including one of a pass on a 20m WR test. (Ie 1/10th tmrated WR).
    I queried this, saying I didn't think 20m wasn't enough.
    I got a reply stating that they neither recommend nor guarantee against water damage, especially on a chrono without screwdown pushers.

    I simply do not think this is either a good enough test, nor a reasonable attitude for a watch like this.

    What does the membership reckon? Am I having a hissy fit over nothing, or do I have a point?

    I guess i would expect a 100m test minimum, and a note about not pushing pushers underwater.

    What do you think?
    Dave

  2. #2
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Did you not establish what the service would entail prior to handing it over?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  3. #3
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I asked for a movement service, no restoration or refinishing, and a WR test which was a checkbox, not somewhere to add a specification.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I would be livid
    I may not systematically put my watches in the drink but I expect them to be able to handle it when I do if they were designed that way.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  5. #5
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I asked for a movement service, no restoration or refinishing, and a WR test which was a checkbox, not somewhere to add a specification.
    I see, I guess you assumed that the watch would be tested to its WR rating - perhaps on the basis that the service center said nothing to the contrary.
    It's got to be worth contacting them again to confirm that they mean 20m not 200m or 20bar.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  6. #6
    Grand Master
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    Strange one Dave.

    Why would they not test the watch to a higher degree? Do they not have the equipment to test for a higher depth rating or if they do and its a wet tester are they afraid of failure at higher pressure. If they have a dry pressure tester why not test a few times up until failure.

    Either way Im not sure i would entirely happy and would ask for a better explanation as to why they only tested to 20m.
    Cheers,

    Ben



    ..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers


    " an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "

  7. #7
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I asked for a movement service, no restoration or refinishing, and a WR test which was a checkbox, not somewhere to add a specification.

    If you ticked the w/r box then a 100m test should be the bare minimum offered.
    20 meters is barely splash-proof, Armani dress watches are rated to 30m.

    On a water resistant watch, o-rings on the crown and pushers as well as the caseback seal should have been changed. As long as they were it should have sailed through a dry chamber test.
    Last edited by kevkojak; 20th May 2022 at 16:07.

  8. #8
    As said above, unless they don’t have the equipment (which I understand often is the case for smaller watchmakers), I would expect them to test the watch up to its original stated water resistance.
    Even if they have the most basic equipment, never heard of a 20m testing, 30m is a very minimum usually. Hopefully it’s a misunderstanding but if not, I’d be fuming at an answer of the sort. Assuming the tutima isn’t battered, if (all) gaskets are changed, no reason for it not to be able to be properly water resistant and tested as such!

  9. #9
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    I guess as an indie they can make up their own rules. 20m (2atm) is not much of a test (even my patek is rated at 25m and that isn’t going anywhere near water.

    You could ask them if they have facilities to test to 200m - I am guessing they don’t or they would have tested it. You may then need to go elsewhere to have it pressure tested?
    “ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    Have you discussed this with the guy who does the work?

    On a watch that age it would be prudent to change all seals simply on the basis of their age, I’m assuming this hasn’t been done? It can be tricky to do on pushers, ideally the pusher should be replaced but that isn’t practical if they’re not available. If it isn’t practical to replace the pusher seals you have to fall back on pressure testing to give some reassurance that the watch won’t leak.

    If it was me, I would've taken the movement out, replaced the crown and caseback and tested the case up to 6 bar which is the highest my tester goes to, I can’t see the logic in testing to only 2 bar on a watch that’s got a much higher rating. If the watch us OK to 6 bar that’s confirmation to me that the seals are still functioning as they should.

    What people don’t realise is how little difference there is between a watch rated to 3 bar, 5 bar or 20 bar, the seals aren’t much different and in some cases they are no different, the higher rating is achieved by having a stronger case and crystal that won’t flex under pressure. Screw- down crowns vary in design but some don’t imorove the sealing in any way, the screw- down action merely safeguards against the crown being inadvertently disturbed.

    Repairers are very cagey about the risk of water ingress with older watches and there’s a degree of arse- covering in this. Far easier to give a disclamer and tell the owner not to get the watch wet the owner not to ‘because its old’ than to do what’s necessary to restore WR to a given level and share that info with the owner.

    If the watch had been tested to 5 bar I think I’d be happier, although 2 bar us probably sufficient to confirm the seals are still OK, when seals fail WR usually drops to zero!

  11. #11
    Master
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    Unless it is vintage I'd expect the service to match the specification; but I'd be satisfied with 100m for that watch

  12. #12
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be happy with that.

    On the other hand, I see why they wouldn't guarantee WR on the watch if the pushers can be operated easily.

    But then again, they could surely test it to pass the correct depth, then simply not guarantee it.

    Talk to them over the phone but maybe it's time to find another indie?

  13. #13
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    So, some points about this.
    I was perplexed by 20m, and I too thought it might be 200m, but it wasn't. 20m was all that was offered, even though the check-box was ticked (and WR testing is a cost option on the service checklist).
    The photo clearly shows 20m on the (dry) tester.
    I would not expect the full 200m WR, unless the watch was almost new. But if WR testing is offered, I would expect a minimum of something that is widely considered to be a rating. A 200m watch tested to 100m, a 100m watch to 50m, a 50m watch to 30m (generally considered the lowest wettable rating). To me, 20m is nowhere.
    After my protestations, they have since tested it to 100m (the limit of their machine), which it passed, and also repeated their assertion that water damage is not covered under their warranty.
    Given that the pushers are accessible, that is fine, but it is a bit odd given that they have now proven that it is waterproof.
    It also is a get out even if there is a later problem that is their fault (I one had a Tag Heuer Aquagraph serviced that came back with an almost loose cseback, the watch flooded completely when I went in the pool).
    I see from the status report that the caseback gasket was replaced, but no other ones were (pushers or crown). I do not believe the crystal has been removed at all.
    I am happy with a 100m testing, but surprised at the initial low one offered.
    This was a new independent for me, which I sent the watch to following recommendations here.
    I am not entirely sure I will use them again, even though the Weishi trace for the movement now looks perfect.
    The matter is resolved to my satisfaction
    D

  14. #14
    If the matter is settled and you're happy then great news.I would have expected it to be tested to what the watch claims to be water resistant to.20m is hardly splash resistant.I understand their hesitation- they're protecting themselves.This is the reason they stopped using the term waterproof I'm the 70's and went to water resistant - their is no guarantee.

    Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

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