closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 143

Thread: Obesity in UK

  1. #51
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Agreed; my wife holds our household food budget and informs me that cooking from scratch is far cheaper than the processed ready meals and other convenience options so I'm not really buying into the poverty angle.
    There is an undeniable link between poverty and obesity. Nothing to buy into, itís a fact. Cost of the actual meal not the only factor.

  2. #52
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    England and Spain
    Posts
    6,056
    I fluctuate my time between the UK and Spain and without doubt the Spanish are slimmer than the Brits, or to put it bluntly the Brits are fat buggers.

    If you look at old documentaries of the UK during the time that I grew up in the 1960s, the streets are full of slim young girls wearing miniskirts whereas today the girls are little porkers. In those days you would eat correctly cooked foods whereas today there are high calorie pre prepped meals sold by the million in supermarkets.

    Also I reckon half the problem is the UK weather. Britain has a long wet cold winter and not very good summers. You cannot live on salads and fruit in the UK, you pig up on things that warm you up and that tend to be fattening.

    Yesterday I had a typical Spanish dinner of fish and salad with a glass of wine and I eat like that most of the time when in Spain. When I return to the wet and colder UK I tend to eat higher calorie foods because it's a warmer meal.

  3. #53

  4. #54
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Cartagena, Spain
    Posts
    17,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Agreed; my wife holds our household food budget and informs me that cooking from scratch is far cheaper than the processed ready meals and other convenience options so I'm not really buying into the poverty angle.
    From what I've read/ heard aren't some of the poorest now asking food banks for food stuffs that require the minimum amount of cooking time, because they struggle to pay the leccy.
    I heard a Govt. representative today claiming the UK's got the cheapest food in Europe, I genuinely find this very hard to swallow.

  5. #55
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    796
    As someone whoís always had a weight problem I see some of these people and just think why. The quick food of today is easy to blame but itís never going to be that simple, weíve created an environment where kids donít go out and sit in theyíre bedrooms on their phone and games consoles because they donít want to associate with the others that are in the ever decreasing community open spaces. Itís easy to say that itís cheaper to eat healthy and it will be if you have the time, but just have a look around a big Iceland freezer section or Herron foods and youíll see why junk food prevails, quantity over quantity will always win hands down when youíve not got much money. I wonder how many of these fat kids are feeding themselves as there parent or parents are out working in low paid jobs or zero hour contracts and the kids are nearly feral.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  6. #56
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    southampton
    Posts
    992
    Bit harsh considering there are links between poverty and obesity. I have a friend who works within addiction and counselling and 7 times out of 10 behind every obese adult will be some kind of trauma. Same as drug addiction etc. Good friend of mine ex GF was child hood trauma and I worked with a 25 stone bloke many years ago whos life fell apart when his mother and father died and turned to food. Both have since turned their lives around (on the outside). Do you think these people are happy? far from it. Life is hard

  7. #57
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    There is an undeniable link between poverty and obesity. Nothing to buy into, itís a fact. Cost of the actual meal not the only factor.
    Iím certain there is but I donít believe that itís the cost of food that is the issue.

    Correlation isnít causation.

    The reasons are probably lack of education, attitudes and so on Ö

  8. #58
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    15,026
    Individuals' differing gut microbiota and diversity thereof can contribute to their propensities for obesity and lean-ness ... currently subject to much ongoing research.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...s-make-you-fat
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  9. #59
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,459
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Agreed; my wife holds our household food budget and informs me that cooking from scratch is far cheaper than the processed ready meals and other convenience options so I'm not really buying into the poverty angle.
    It;s not so clear cut - whilst the main components might be cheaper, people on very low income often can't afford enough out of their weekly income to buy ingredients e.g bags of flour, yeast etc. Or the energy cost to run ovens. Then add on top of thjis many of them work so many hours that the time and mental effort required to plan a weekly menu is beyond them.

    I'm a big believer in persoanl respponsbility but even I can see that poverty can be such that pizzas and fish/chips ends up being the choice.

    I'm diametrically opposed to Jack Monroe's politics, but she does have experience at this just go look at the level of planning and skill required to plan a meals on £20 a week which is what some families have after they pay their bills - it's FAR beyond most people's ability, let alone their will. You can see why people give up and buy a 5-pack of frozen pizza from Iceland.

    Last edited by Scepticalist; 7th May 2022 at 09:23.

  10. #60
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Cartagena, Spain
    Posts
    17,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Scepticalist View Post
    It;s not so clear cut - whilst the main components might be cheaper, people on very low income often can't afford enough out of their weekly income to buy ingredients e.g bags of flour, yeast etc. Or the energy cost to run ovens. Then add on top of thjis many of them work so many hours that the time and mental effort required to plan a weekly menu is beyond them.

    I'm a big believer in persoanl respponsbility but even I can see that poverty can be such that pizzas and fish/chips ends up being the choice.

    I'm diametrically opposed to Jack Monroe's politics, but she does have experience at this just go look at the level of planning and skill required to plan a meals on £20 a week which is what some families have after they pay their bills - it's FAR beyond most people's ability, let alone their will. You can see why people give up and buy a 5-pack of frozen pizza from Iceland.

    wow that's commitment/ work as you observe unfortunately beyond some folks, although feeding yourself/family healthy, nutritious food should come near the top of the priorities list imho. Perhaps Home Economics needs to return to the school syllabus especially as the cost of living crisis/ food price rises could be here to stay, all the better to prevent diseases like scurvy and rickets, whilst getting by on a tight budget.
    Last edited by Passenger; 7th May 2022 at 11:06.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Individuals' differing gut microbiota and diversity thereof can contribute to their propensities for obesity and lean-ness ... currently subject to much ongoing research.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...s-make-you-fat
    Great point and industrial processing of food leads to less micro bacteria to help our gut digest and process food.

  12. #62
    Journeyman Adge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    London
    Posts
    166
    I'm wondering when these scales for determining obesity were most recently updated and if they reflect the overall size changes to humans in recent history.

    It's no secret that in the last 100 years humans have gotten bigger/taller/stronger etc on average (due to many things including nutrition and availability of cheap food etc)... So are these reflective? And probably changing faster than ever.

    I saw an article recently that said something like 70% of people in 1st world countries are obese. This can't be possible.

    The scale needs to move

  13. #63
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    I saw an article recently that said something like 70% of people in 1st world countries are obese. This can't be possible.
    Oh yes it can! To misquote Ralph McTell, "Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets ..." around where I live.

    Not sure by what measure actually "obesity" is claimed (BMI in excess of??) but a very very large number of overweight people and plenty who are so big you genuinely wonder how they can function.

    It's definitely a UK development of the last 30/40 years, I would say.
    Last edited by David_D; 11th May 2022 at 13:20.

  14. #64
    Master M1011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,014
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Anyone reading this who is a unit please do not be offended its not a dig its a generalisation and we all have the right to live as we chose, its poisoning the kids and killing healthcare thats the grind.
    On behalf of myself and most of the population on Sales Corner, we thank you for your consideration

  15. #65
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    I'm wondering when these scales for determining obesity were most recently updated and if they reflect the overall size changes to humans in recent history.

    It's no secret that in the last 100 years humans have gotten bigger/taller/stronger etc on average (due to many things including nutrition and availability of cheap food etc)... So are these reflective? And probably changing faster than ever.

    I saw an article recently that said something like 70% of people in 1st world countries are obese. This can't be possible.

    The scale needs to move
    Errr Ö changing the scale donít magically make fat people thin.

    Evolution happens over thousands of years, our bodies are not evolved to cope with the current diet many people have and hence the massive health crisis. The solution is most definitely not to change the scale.

  16. #66
    Journeyman Adge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    London
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Errr Ö changing the scale donít magically make fat people thin.

    Evolution happens over thousands of years, our bodies are not evolved to cope with the current diet many people have and hence the massive health crisis. The solution is most definitely not to change the scale.
    Haha I didn't suggest it would make them thin, but saying 70% of people are unhealthily overweight is a stretch I think. We can't all have body fat percentage of 20%, and slightly more isn't terribly unhealthy. Yes there are obese people no doubt.... But it's not most people. Maybe where you live, but not everywhere.

    And although evolution takes place over thousands of years, massive changes have happened over the last hundred. Look at ceiling heights in old buildings, clothes sizes from 50 years ago, antique chairs and furniture, and sporting figure sizes from 100 years ago. There is clear size difference recently compared to 100 years ago.

  17. #67
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    England and Spain
    Posts
    6,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    Haha I didn't suggest it would make them thin, but saying 70% of people are unhealthily overweight is a stretch I think. We can't all have body fat percentage of 20%, and slightly more isn't terribly unhealthy. Yes there are obese people no doubt.... But it's not most people. Maybe where you live, but not everywhere.

    And although evolution takes place over thousands of years, massive changes have happened over the last hundred. Look at ceiling heights in old buildings, clothes sizes from 50 years ago, antique chairs and furniture, and sporting figure sizes from 100 years ago. There is clear size difference recently compared to 100 years ago.
    I have just started researching the wifes and my ancestry and I managed to get the naval records of my great grand father. He was 5ft 2ins. That would make him a midget today.

  18. #68
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    That would make him a midget today.
    Not a fat one though?

  19. #69
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...fings/sn03336/

    "28% of adults in England are obese and a further 36% are overweight."

    So, surprisingly, "only" 64% overweight.

  20. #70
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    England and Spain
    Posts
    6,056
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Not a fat one though?
    True - he was a seaman, poorly paid, heavily worked and fit and healthy.

  21. #71
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    Haha I didn't suggest it would make them thin, but saying 70% of people are unhealthily overweight is a stretch I think. We can't all have body fat percentage of 20%, and slightly more isn't terribly unhealthy. Yes there are obese people no doubt.... But it's not most people. Maybe where you live, but not everywhere.

    And although evolution takes place over thousands of years, massive changes have happened over the last hundred. Look at ceiling heights in old buildings, clothes sizes from 50 years ago, antique chairs and furniture, and sporting figure sizes from 100 years ago. There is clear size difference recently compared to 100 years ago.
    You are right people are bigger, thatís the problem.

    Obesity is one of the biggest drains on the NHS and that is entirely manageable.

    Just look at the progress we have made with reducing the health implications of smoking.

  22. #72
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    You are right people are bigger, thatís the problem.

    Obesity is one of the biggest drains on the NHS and that is entirely manageable.

    Just look at the progress we have made with reducing the health implications of smoking.
    A great example of how the emphasis was put on population based solutions rather than blaming the individual.

  23. #73
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    A great example of how the emphasis was put on population based solutions rather than blaming the individual.
    Maybe so but the level of smoking is tiny compared to its popularity in the 60s and 70s so it works.

  24. #74
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,500
    With smoking we attacked it from all sides, reducing the places to smoke, strong advertising on dangers, hiding the cigarettes from plain site and taxing, whereas we promote eating and the ease of it, 24 hr delivery by fast food chains and drive thrus, large advertising billboard for the junk, and making sure the chocolate and sweet stuff is right next to the counter in case you missed it on the way round with little Ďjunkí tax.

    Thats where we should make gains and then the individuals would have support and a head start, I absolutely love cake, biscuits etc and both my parents are fatties so genetically I am challenged but I refrain with self discipline realising the benefits over risk involved and I am blessed that I enjoy physical exercise, not always, like anyone I have bad days, weeks, months where its hard to motivate but I get amongst it regardless as it would be too easy to sit on the sofa and destroy a tube of Pringles.

    The food industry is poisoning you so that the pharmaceutical industry can try and make you better, whilst both line the pockets of governments. Have you worked it out yet?

  25. #75
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,854
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Maybe so but the level of smoking is tiny compared to its popularity in the 60s and 70s so it works.
    That is exactly what watchstudent was saying (reacting to your "maybe so, but..."). A societal problem requires a societal solution. Although being a MD, he might be considered as having a little expertise on the topic, which in this day and age may disqualify him
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  26. #76
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    With smoking we attacked it from all sides, reducing the places to smoke, strong advertising on dangers, hiding the cigarettes from plain site and taxing, whereas we promote eating and the ease of it, 24 hr delivery by fast food chains and drive thrus, large advertising billboard for the junk, and making sure the chocolate and sweet stuff is right next to the counter in case you missed it on the way round with little Ďjunkí tax.

    Thats where we should make gains and then the individuals would have support and a head start, I absolutely love cake, biscuits etc and both my parents are fatties so genetically I am challenged but I refrain with self discipline realising the benefits over risk involved and I am blessed that I enjoy physical exercise, not always, like anyone I have bad days, weeks, months where its hard to motivate but I get amongst it regardless as it would be too easy to sit on the sofa and destroy a tube of Pringles.

    The food industry is poisoning you so that the pharmaceutical industry can try and make you better, whilst both line the pockets of governments. Have you worked it out yet?
    Big tobacco did make huge profits and lined the pockets of government (and still does) but eventually the tide turned.

    We have not reached that point yet with obesity but hopefully the same model can be followed Ö

  27. #77
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    That is exactly what watchstudent was saying (reacting to your "maybe so, but..."). A societal problem requires a societal solution. Although being a MD, he might be considered as having a little expertise on the topic, which in this day and age may disqualify him
    Plenty of overweight MDís with associated health problems

  28. #78
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,854
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Plenty of overweight MDís with associated health problems
    Of course. Often associated with a reaction to stress, from their time as overworked junior doctors...
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  29. #79
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    15,026
    I've noticed that hospital nursing staff appear to be more obese than Mr / Ms / Mrs 'Average' ... and thus give the impression they do not follow healthy diets. Too many nurses (male and female) appear to be wearing clothing too tight to comfortably accommodate their bulging over-large bodies ... and I also notice them queueing at the fast food stalls situated on the hospital car park perimeter ... adjacent to the main hospital entrance. Furthermore, inside the hospital reception and OP waiting areas areas are snack vending machines and retailer W H Smith offering and selling far too many tempting quick snacks / sweets / chocolate. I was once referred to a dietician at Addenbrooke's Hospital for dietary advice ref a digestive ailment ... she was grossly overweight and was waxing lyrical regarding what I should avoid eating. I had no faith in her advice ... because she was so fat ... so did not attend a suggested follow-up appointment. Similarly I had no confidence in an obese NHS oral / dental surgeon. The obese nurses likely exercise plenty ... they're on their feet all day walking around wards / corridors / departments ... but I wonder if they have the time or the inclination to improve their diets with a view to losing weight.

    Also recall my late father's district nurse who attended to his home nursing needs after abdominal surgery ... including removing his sutures. She was not only very obese but obviously unfit ... being very out of breath and wheezing after walking upstairs to dad's bedroom ... where my father was gasping for a cigarette. His heavy smoking habit had likely contributed to life-threatening abdominal septicemia and pneumonia following his appendectomy ... the hospital had not allowed him to smoke following surgery. My very obstinate father discharged himself from the convalescent ward and was thus receiving district nurse care at home and confined to bed. I witnessed the obese district nurse ... herself also gasping for a fag ... throwing my father a cigarette and then lighting it for him as she also lit hers ... and she then proceeded to cut and remove his sutures ... puffing and wheezing with a lighted cigarette in her mouth ... whilst my father had a good cough as he inhaled his first cigarette after several weeks' abstinence. My father eventually recovered ... and a few months later the obsese chain smoking district nurse was promoted to a senior nursing position.
    Last edited by sundial; 12th May 2022 at 10:14.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  30. #80
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    The Far East (of England)
    Posts
    2,679
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Plenty of overweight MDís with associated health problems
    I was "lectured" by a very overweight practice nurse at our local "Well man clinic"! I just smiled, nodded and carried on. She kept waffling on about BMI. Most professional rugby players don't have "healthy" BMI figures! I'm probably three times her age and still battling on nicely thank you!

  31. #81
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    I've noticed that hospital nursing staff appear to be more obese than Mr / Ms / Mrs 'Average' ... and thus give the impression they do not follow healthy diets. Too many nurses (male and female) appear to be wearing clothing too tight to comfortably accommodate their bulging over-large bodies
    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    I was "lectured" by a very overweight practice nurse at our local "Well man clinic"! I just smiled, nodded and carried on.
    Absolutely my experience too. My brother was in hospital 4 or 5 years ago and when I visited him I was staggered at the number of obese nurses. One was so fat she was struggling to lean forward to type into her keyboard. She'll probably end up getting taxpayer funded ill health early retirement because of back problems.

  32. #82
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Yes, to the above, Montello did seem to just make my point for me while trying to contradict it…

    Of course there are fat nurses! Just goes further to make my point about it being a population problem. Yes every individual has a responsibility for what they put in their face but to find a solution to population obesity needs a solution on a population level, not by saying “gosh fatty, why don’t you try to eat less”. At scale, that literally can never work.

    Nurses and doctors are pretty good case studies actually. Both are educated, both know what a healthy diet would look like. Yes doctors can be fat, but far less fat doctors than fat nurses, why? Socioeconomics. Salary, dependents, the area you live, culture.

    Obesity epidemics occur where a rich nation combines with massive social and financial inequality. The more unequal a first world country is the worse the obesity crisis is likely to be.

    UK and USA vs Scandinavia

  33. #83
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Yes, to the above, Montello did seem to just make my point for me while trying to contradict itÖ

    Of course there are fat nurses! Just goes further to make my point about it being a population problem. Yes every individual has a responsibility for what they put in their face but to find a solution to population obesity needs a solution on a population level, not by saying ďgosh fatty, why donít you try to eat lessĒ. At scale, that literally can never work.

    Nurses and doctors are pretty good case studies actually. Both are educated, both know what a healthy diet would look like. Yes doctors can be fat, but far less fat doctors than fat nurses, why? Socioeconomics. Salary, dependents, the area you live, culture.

    Obesity epidemics occur where a rich nation combines with massive social and financial inequality. The more unequal a first world country is the worse the obesity crisis is likely to be.

    UK and USA vs Scandinavia
    I wasnít entirely contradicting your point just highlighting the fact that there is a role for personal responsibility.

    Itís all too easy to roll over and say the nanny state needs to fix this problem and do nothing about oneís own predicament.

  34. #84
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I wasnít entirely contradicting your point just highlighting the fact that there is a role for personal responsibility.

    Itís all too easy to roll over and say the nanny state needs to fix this problem and do nothing about oneís own predicament.
    When talking to an individual person I.e when I see a patient who is obese, absolutely itís all about personal responsibility, only they can solve it.

    When weíre talking about obesity in the whole of the UK, talking about personal responsibility is pointless. Itís a distraction. Not about a nanny state, itís about equal opportunity to not be obese. If you are 10 and live in a leafy suburb in a nice house with educated parents who had educated parents vs live in a flat in inner city Plymouth surrounded by fast food and empty calories (because companies that sell that shit literally target poor people) with a single parent.

    You cannot have a sensible discussion about obesity on a population level without also discussing social and health inequalities. Itís inseparable.

  35. #85
    Master Christian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    8,934
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Absolutely my experience too. My brother was in hospital 4 or 5 years ago and when I visited him I was staggered at the number of obese nurses. One was so fat she was struggling to lean forward to type into her keyboard. She'll probably end up getting taxpayer funded ill health early retirement because of back problems.
    I suspect shift work doesn't help. I've done spells of shift work throughout my life and when you are moving your daily clock around regularly you completely mess up your eating habits.

  36. #86
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    917

    Obesity in UK

    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    When talking to an individual person I.e when I see a patient who is obese, absolutely itís all about personal responsibility, only they can solve it.

    When weíre talking about obesity in the whole of the UK, talking about personal responsibility is pointless. Itís a distraction. Not about a nanny state, itís about equal opportunity to not be obese. If you are 10 and live in a leafy suburb in a nice house with educated parents who had educated parents vs live in a flat in inner city Plymouth surrounded by fast food and empty calories (because companies that sell that shit literally target poor people) with a single parent.

    You cannot have a sensible discussion about obesity on a population level without also discussing social and health inequalities. Itís inseparable.
    Can you replace the PM?

    It is rare to read someone so articulate and sensible on a forum. Thank you so much for all you do to help people and educate.

  37. #87
    Master Ruggertech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Deepest darkest South Wales.
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I suspect shift work doesn't help. I've done spells of shift work throughout my life and when you are moving your daily clock around regularly you completely mess up your eating habits.
    This absolutely ^^^

  38. #88
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Can you replace the PM?

    It is rare to read someone so articulate and sensible on a forum. Thank you so much for all you do to help people and educate.
    Genuinely a very nice thing to say, thank you!

    By and large I think forums are a very bad place to debate etc because so much non-verbal communication is lost! Which is why I only like to really weigh in (pardon the pun) on things I know a little about!

  39. #89
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    15,026
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    When talking to an individual person I.e when I see a patient who is obese, absolutely itís all about personal responsibility, only they can solve it.

    When weíre talking about obesity in the whole of the UK, talking about personal responsibility is pointless. Itís a distraction. Not about a nanny state, itís about equal opportunity to not be obese. If you are 10 and live in a leafy suburb in a nice house with educated parents who had educated parents vs live in a flat in inner city Plymouth surrounded by fast food and empty calories (because companies that sell that shit literally target poor people) with a single parent.

    You cannot have a sensible discussion about obesity on a population level without also discussing social and health inequalities. Itís inseparable.
    Please also consider genetic factors and also individuals' microbiomes ... currently much research ref latter particularly by Prof Tim Spector's 'Twins Study' ... documented online and in his books ... also via ZOE podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUMXq8Bzmg
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  40. #90
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Please also consider genetic factors and also individuals' microbiomes ... currently much research ref latter particularly by Prof Tim Spector's 'Twins Study' ... documented online and in his books ... also via ZOE podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUMXq8Bzmg
    I do, Iím a fan of Tim Spectorís work.

    Microbiomes probably also affected by stress levels and by extension deprivation. Itís all linked. Key is to look for the bits that have the most leverage. Probably, better paying jobs in poor areas to be honest.

  41. #91
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    15,026
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    When talking to an individual person I.e when I see a patient who is obese, absolutely it’s all about personal responsibility, only they can solve it.

    When we’re talking about obesity in the whole of the UK, talking about personal responsibility is pointless. It’s a distraction. Not about a nanny state, it’s about equal opportunity to not be obese. If you are 10 and live in a leafy suburb in a nice house with educated parents who had educated parents vs live in a flat in inner city Plymouth surrounded by fast food and empty calories (because companies that sell that shit literally target poor people) with a single parent.

    You cannot have a sensible discussion about obesity on a population level without also discussing social and health inequalities. It’s inseparable.
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    I do, I’m a fan of Tim Spector’s work.

    Microbiomes probably also affected by stress levels and by extension deprivation. It’s all linked. Key is to look for the bits that have the most leverage. Probably, better paying jobs in poor areas to be honest.
    Pleased to hear you follow Tim Spector ... whose work / research / recommendations have been 'dismissed' on this forum. Some prefer their extreme diets to lose weight ... but their weight loss appears to be temporary ... necessitating yet another dose of extreme diet ... possibly ad infinitum. ... which cannot be beneficial for their microbiomes and longevities.
    Last edited by sundial; 14th May 2022 at 15:08.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  42. #92
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,840
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    When talking to an individual person I.e when I see a patient who is obese, absolutely itís all about personal responsibility, only they can solve it.

    When weíre talking about obesity in the whole of the UK, talking about personal responsibility is pointless. Itís a distraction. Not about a nanny state, itís about equal opportunity to not be obese. If you are 10 and live in a leafy suburb in a nice house with educated parents who had educated parents vs live in a flat in inner city Plymouth surrounded by fast food and empty calories (because companies that sell that shit literally target poor people) with a single parent.

    You cannot have a sensible discussion about obesity on a population level without also discussing social and health inequalities. Itís inseparable.

    I completely agree. Trouble is all too often individuals donít act because they are deferring to the state, who donít seem to care about this issue, just look at the condition of Johnson.

  43. #93
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    We can argue the merits or otherwise of ďfat shamingĒ but Channel 5 are advertising their latest trash offering: ďBig Brits Go Large!Ē. It appears to normalise if not glorify morbid obesity.

  44. #94
    Article in the guardian, can't copy linky sorry. Head line below, a good read.

    Number crunching: why ultra-processed foods have a calorie problem
    a biscuit factory production line.
    How we process a calorie depends on genetics, hormones and the food itís in. The trouble is that 50% of our calories come from ultra-processed foods Ė everything from biscuits to hummus

  45. #95
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Humptynumpty View Post
    Article in the guardian, can't copy linky sorry. Head line below, a good read.

    Number crunching: why ultra-processed foods have a calorie problem
    a biscuit factory production line.
    How we process a calorie depends on genetics, hormones and the food itís in. The trouble is that 50% of our calories come from ultra-processed foods Ė everything from biscuits to hummus
    Dont eat ultra processed! Fairly easy.

    These genetics that make us fat don't seem to have existed a couple of generations ago.

  46. #96
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    15,026
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Dont eat ultra processed! Fairly easy.

    These genetics that make us fat don't seem to have existed a couple of generations ago.
    Genes are just one factor affecting an individual's propensity to obesity ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUeecgNXWo. ... scroll forward to 3 minutes and then consider watching / listening to the whole study
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  47. #97
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,854
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Dont eat ultra processed! Fairly easy.

    These genetics that make us fat don't seem to have existed a couple of generations ago.
    Of course they did. Just think of the Venus of Willendorf, Henri VIII, Courbet's baigneuses...

    The difference is that they worked harder, were often at the limit of starvation and with little in terms of health care.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  48. #98
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Of course they did. Just think of the Venus of Willendorf, Henri VIII, Courbet's baigneuses...

    The difference is that they worked harder, were often at the limit of starvation and with little in terms of health care.
    You only need go back 50 years

  49. #99
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,854
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    You only need go back 50 years
    Genes donít conquer half of the planet in 50 years. Those genetic factors were there. What wasnít (to that extent) are the triggers : Omnipresent junk food, computers and mobiles, etc.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  50. #100
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    M62 corridor
    Posts
    4,006
    Sports Illustrated magazine cover, apparently.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by David_D; 18th May 2022 at 01:01.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information