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Thread: Obesity in UK

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Sports Illustrated magazine cover, apparently.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Perhaps her weight should be lower from purely a health perspective.

    I think she kind of looks pretty damn good though. Horses for courses I think!

  2. #102
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    None of this surprises me frankly. Where I am it seems that so many people are vastly overweight that a slim and fit person is a rarity.

    I park on a small trading estate occasionally and there's a Farm Foods there. People go in and out, trolleys full of junk and crap, most so round and podgy I'm surprised they have the strength to get in and out of their cars. It does make one wonder just why they get like that.

    I eat very carefullly, do at least four hard gym sessions a week, walk when I can, stand when I can and monitor my calories carefully on my Apple Watch. I often get mistaken for someone in their late 20s, and I'm actually 46.

    I'm not saying it's easy, in fact it's very hard. But it's soooo worth the effort! I feel like a million dollars and believe it or not, I actually find that women look at me, and even smile occasionally. That NEVER happened before I got into shape. Never!

    It can become a touch obsessive if one isn't careful, but my PT taught me how to carefully focus whilst still maintaining general fitness, and also not burn out; which is easy at the start.

    I know it ain't for everyone, but it does dishearten me somewhat when someone who says I look fit/healthy/slim etc asks how I do it, and then when I tell them they immediately say "oh, I could never do that!"

    Well, you can, but you just don't want to.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filterlab View Post
    None of this surprises me frankly. Where I am it seems that so many people are vastly overweight that a slim and fit person is a rarity.

    I park on a small trading estate occasionally and there's a Farm Foods there. People go in and out, trolleys full of junk and crap, most so round and podgy I'm surprised they have the strength to get in and out of their cars. It does make one wonder just why they get like that.

    I eat very carefullly, do at least four hard gym sessions a week, walk when I can, stand when I can and monitor my calories carefully on my Apple Watch. I often get mistaken for someone in their late 20s, and I'm actually 46.

    I'm not saying it's easy, in fact it's very hard. But it's soooo worth the effort! I feel like a million dollars and believe it or not, I actually find that women look at me, and even smile occasionally. That NEVER happened before I got into shape. Never!

    It can become a touch obsessive if one isn't careful, but my PT taught me how to carefully focus whilst still maintaining general fitness, and also not burn out; which is easy at the start.

    I know it ain't for everyone, but it does dishearten me somewhat when someone who says I look fit/healthy/slim etc asks how I do it, and then when I tell them they immediately say "oh, I could never do that!"

    Well, you can, but you just don't want to.
    Really good to hear and well done as you said it is not easy being fit and healthy but its so worth it

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Perhaps her weight should be lower from purely a health perspective.

    I think she kind of looks pretty damn good though. Horses for courses I think!
    Looks PDG down as far as her neck ... after that 'acquired taste' if fatty ladies float fit your boat
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Really good to hear and well done as you said it is not easy being fit and healthy but its so worth it
    Thanks man. It is hard, but I wouldn't change my lifestyle now for anything.

  6. #106
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    Since moving country I am regularly getting over 20,000 steps a day on my Fitbit and easily hitting my other targets. Getting a swim in a day and working hard getting the garden into shape helps my keep fit - using machinery that works up a sweat and outside is a good feeling.

    Eating home made food and even the restaurant food is good (fish, meats, potatoes, rice and veg / rice) helps a good diet. Producing own food and eating it is a little secret I have learned for good health and a good heart. The sunshine helps too.

    But the cheap wine (2€ a bottle) doesn't help but does taste good!
    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so”. HHGTTG

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    Haha I didn't suggest it would make them thin, but saying 70% of people are unhealthily overweight is a stretch I think. We can't all have body fat percentage of 20%, and slightly more isn't terribly unhealthy. Yes there are obese people no doubt.... But it's not most people. Maybe where you live, but not everywhere.

    And although evolution takes place over thousands of years, massive changes have happened over the last hundred. Look at ceiling heights in old buildings, clothes sizes from 50 years ago, antique chairs and furniture, and sporting figure sizes from 100 years ago. There is clear size difference recently compared to 100 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I have just started researching the wifes and my ancestry and I managed to get the naval records of my great grand father. He was 5ft 2ins. That would make him a midget today.
    If any of you are into military history and visit museums look at the uniforms of soldiers and sailors. Especially around the Napoleonic wars period. And see how many you think you could fit into. It's a stark reminder of how people have grown bigger in a relatively short timeframe.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    If any of you are into military history and visit museums look at the uniforms of soldiers and sailors. Especially around the Napoleonic wars period. And see how many you think you could fit into. It's a stark reminder of how people have grown bigger in a relatively short timeframe.
    On a visit to HMS Victory, it was very cramped on the lower gun decks and I at 6'2 couldn't stand up without being crouched over! my mate at 6' 4 was finding it difficult too. Must have press ganged little sailors!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    On a visit to HMS Victory, it was very cramped on the lower gun decks and I at 6'2 couldn't stand up without being crouched over! my mate at 6' 4 was finding it difficult too. Must have press ganged little sailors!
    Average height was less than today's in 1800 ... Nelson 5' 6" .. but Capt. Hardy was 6' 4"
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    On a visit to HMS Victory, it was very cramped on the lower gun decks and I at 6'2 couldn't stand up without being crouched over! my mate at 6' 4 was finding it difficult too. Must have press ganged little sailors!
    Exactly that. When you look at the cabins that people had it's hard to stoop low enough to get through the door, and once inside they're very cramped.

    If you ever get the chance to see one of Nelson's uniforms you may be surprised how small it is.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  11. #111
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    As I said, normalisation of the unhealthy.

    Jonathan Ross' daughter Honey displays her curves in a bikini in Ibiza
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10844977/Jonathan-Ross-daughter-Honey-displays-curves-bikini-shares-snaps-Ibiza-getaway.html

    “displays her curves”


  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filterlab View Post
    Thanks man. It is hard, but I wouldn't change my lifestyle now for anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    As I said, normalisation of the unhealthy.

    Jonathan Ross' daughter Honey displays her curves in a bikini in Ibiza
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10844977/Jonathan-Ross-daughter-Honey-displays-curves-bikini-shares-snaps-Ibiza-getaway.html

    “displays her curves”
    Some things are best unseen. What is disappointing is that she seems oblivious to the problems she can expect in later life.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  13. #113
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    The lady is not necessarily 'unhealthy' ... Usual judgemental remarks being passed by those who have no idea why she is overweight. There are a number of reasons why she could be overweight ... obesity is not necessarily caused by over-eating and/or lack of exercise and/or poor /incorrect diet. If you want to know more please investigate Prof. Tim Spector's 'twins study' where he studies identical twins ... hundreds of identical twins over many years ... one twin being obese and the other 'normal' ... even though they both eat similar diets and have similar exercise routines. There is a lot more to obesity than just lack of exercise and poor diet. Some TZ UK members radars ref obesity are not looking at, or choose not to look at, the 'wider picture' ref causes. Ms Ross might not have received the best advice if trying to lose weight. All the reasons for a person's obesity are not necessarily on their GP's / dietician's / personal trainer's radars.
    Last edited by sundial; 25th May 2022 at 19:30.
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  14. #114
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    The model was described as "incredibly hot" by David Baddiel on Twitter, a few days ago.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The lady is not necessarily 'unhealthy' ... Usual judgemental remarks being passed by those who have no idea why she is overweight. There are a number of reasons why she could be overweight ... obesity is not necessarily caused by over-eating and/or lack of exercise and/or poor /incorrect diet. If you want to know more please investigate Prof. Tim Spector's 'twins study' where he studies identical twins ... hundreds of identical twins over many years ... one twin being obese and the other 'normal' ... even though they both eat similar diets and have similar exercise routines. There is a lot more to obesity than just lack of exercise and poor diet. Some TZ UK members radars ref obesity are not looking at, or choose not to look at, the 'wider picture' ref causes. Ms Ross might not have received the best advice if trying to lose weight. All the reasons for a person's obesity are not necessarily on their GP's / dietician's / personal trainer's radars.
    Are you saying overweight isn't necessarily unhealthy?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Are you saying overweight isn't necessarily unhealthy?
    Not as 'unhealthy' as some would / might suggest. Not everyone who is 'classified' as obese is on the verge of contracting various diseases ... and unfit. I know a lady just as large who regularly swims 500m 'crawl' in her local pool ... she is very fit. She'd likely be fitter if she lost weight but she's happy ... and does not overeat.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The lady is not necessarily 'unhealthy' ... Usual judgemental remarks being passed by those who have no idea why she is overweight. There are a number of reasons why she could be overweight ... obesity is not necessarily caused by over-eating and/or lack of exercise and/or poor /incorrect diet. If you want to know more please investigate Prof. Tim Spector's 'twins study' where he studies identical twins ... hundreds of identical twins over many years ... one twin being obese and the other 'normal' ... even though they both eat similar diets and have similar exercise routines. There is a lot more to obesity than just lack of exercise and poor diet. Some TZ UK members radars ref obesity are not looking at, or choose not to look at, the 'wider picture' ref causes. Ms Ross might not have received the best advice if trying to lose weight. All the reasons for a person's obesity are not necessarily on their GP's / dietician's / personal trainer's radars.
    I’m sure there are all sorts of factors effecting obesity. But the overwhelmingly majority of obese people are that way because of diet and not their genetics. To focus on the latter risks ignoring the obvious problem.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I’m sure there are all sorts of factors effecting obesity. But the overwhelmingly majority of obese people are that way because of diet and not their genetics. To focus on the latter risks ignoring the obvious problem.
    Who mentioned genetics ?? There is a problem requiring attention ... but it is not genetics ... Would be a waste of time trying to explain in detail (again) ... suffice to mention it's hinted at in previous posts by me and at least one other member ... but it's just not on other members' radars and unlikely to be.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Who mentioned genetics ?? There is a problem requiring attention ... but it is not genetics ... Would be a waste of time trying to explain in detail (again) ... suffice to mention it's hinted at in previous posts by me and at least one other member ... but it's just not on other members' radars and unlikely to be.
    Clip here. Following googling your Prof. https://twinsuk.ac.uk/press-release/...reakdown-gene/



    New study finds strong link between obesity and ‘carb breakdown’ gene

    Researchers at King’s College London and Imperial College London have discovered that people with fewer copies of a gene coding for a carb-digesting enzyme may be at higher risk of obesity. The findings, published in Nature Genetics, suggest that dietary advice may need to be more tailored to an individual’s digestive system, based on whether they have the genetic predisposition and necessary enzymes to digest different foods.


    Point it the vast majority of obese people are so because of their lifestyles, to focus elsewhere is missing the elephant in the room …
    Last edited by Montello; 25th May 2022 at 21:52.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Clip here. Following googling your Prof. https://twinsuk.ac.uk/press-release/...reakdown-gene/



    New study finds strong link between obesity and ‘carb breakdown’ gene

    Researchers at King’s College London and Imperial College London have discovered that people with fewer copies of a gene coding for a carb-digesting enzyme may be at higher risk of obesity. The findings, published in Nature Genetics, suggest that dietary advice may need to be more tailored to an individual’s digestive system, based on whether they have the genetic predisposition and necessary enzymes to digest different foods.


    Point it the vast majority of obese people are so because of their lifestyles, to focus elsewhere is missing the elephant in the room …
    Genetics is one part of the equation ... and there is currently a lot more obesity research in progress at King’s College London and Imperial College London which looks at and proves that focus is required in other directions ... lifestyle is a factor(s)... but other factors likely more important
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Genetics is one part of the equation ... and there is currently a lot more obesity research in progress at King’s College London and Imperial College London which looks at and proves that focus is required in other directions ... lifestyle is a factor(s)... but other factors likely more important
    Come on let’s face it the major issue here is diet. Other factors are secondary.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Anyone reading this who is a unit please do not be offended its not a dig its a generalisation and we all have the right to live as we chose, its poisoning the kids and killing healthcare thats the grind.
    Sorry Kerry - I had to reply as the comment ‘a unit’ made me chuckle.

    I’ve read the thread now and agree with much that has been raised. My own experience veers between pretty fit to much less so (albeit still easily ‘green’ in fitness assessments). Poor food choices seem to go hand in hand with fatigue (lack of decent/enough sleep and stress. But in my case I would emphasise the word choice in so much that I’m aware I’m making a suboptimal choice when I’m lucky enough to have options. My challenge is momentum - staying fit such that in itself that is the habit.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Come on let’s face it the major issue here is diet. Other factors are secondary.
    You may not have read certain/specific books or watched the You Tube videos / podcasts dealing with the various causes of obesity ... And ref. remedies ... Diet is a factor ... but diet is a vast subject ...
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    You may not have read certain/specific books or watched the You Tube videos / podcasts dealing with the various causes of obesity ... And ref. remedies ... Diet is a factor ... but diet is a vast subject ...

    You may not have opened your eyes and looked around you at the baskets of your fellow shoppers in the supermarket and the behaviours of people in eat all you can buffets, and the state of the food supply chain, just eat, deliveroo and the proliferation of take away vendors selling awful food … the issue is overwhelming one of what and how much people are eating.

  25. #125
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    Separate argument but I think this "eating or heating" crisis with regard to prices of energy and food going up us bollocks. I don't believe people can't afford to eat, I think they can't afford to eat at the level they've been accustomed to. Take-aways, crisps, chocolate, junk food have now become a luxury to low income families instead of a daily staple.
    I'm new to healthy eating to be fair and I've been astonished at how cheaply you can feed the family. Fresh veg and a healthy portion of meat (not a slab of steak or a kilo of chicken, like we used to) costs hardly anything. A weekly take-away (which is now every 3 weeks instead) was generally £40 for the four of us. I can almost do a weekly shop on that now.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    You may not have opened your eyes and looked around you at the baskets of your fellow shoppers in the supermarket and the behaviours of people in eat all you can buffets, and the state of the food supply chain, just eat, deliveroo and the proliferation of take away vendors selling awful food … the issue is overwhelming one of what and how much people are eating.
    The picture you paint is just one cause of obesity ... there are others ... and one other in particular ... which can result in obesity regardless of what a person eats
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    Fresh veg and a healthy portion of meat (not a slab of steak or a kilo of chicken, like we used to) costs hardly anything.
    Absolutely, if you look at Aldi's 'Super 6' veg and fruit offers you can get fresh fruit and veg very cheaply. A pack of chicken breasts too and it's easy to have healthy foods.
    Unfortunately, the easy way out is to buy pizzas, and ready meals which are full of preservatives and bad ingredients.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    … the issue is overwhelming one of what and how much people are eating.
    Of course it is. It’s like saying my grandad smoked 60 fags a day and was still tap dancing at 95. The exceptions are just that, exceptions. The overwhelming majority are obese because they do no physical activity and eat too much, mainly unhealthy, food - aided and abetted by blanket advertising of poor quality salt, sugar and fat ridden processed rubbish. Obesity simply wasn’t the epidemic it is now 30+ years ago.

    EDIT:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us...revalence-2021

    “Research shows that living with obesity is the single greatest risk factor, and accounts for 80-85% of someone's risk of developing the condition, and our previous data revealed that the number of people living with obesity in England has almost doubled in the last 20 years from 6.9 to 13 million.”

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Of course it is. It’s like saying my grandad smoked 60 fags a day and was still tap dancing at 95. The exceptions are just that, exceptions. The overwhelming majority are obese because they do no physical activity and eat too much, mainly unhealthy, food - aided and abetted by blanket advertising of poor quality salt, sugar and fat ridden processed rubbish. Obesity simply wasn’t the epidemic it is now 30+ years ago.

    EDIT:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us...revalence-2021

    “Research shows that living with obesity is the single greatest risk factor, and accounts for 80-85% of someone's risk of developing the condition, and our previous data revealed that the number of people living with obesity in England has almost doubled in the last 20 years from 6.9 to 13 million.”
    Obesity is not necessarily related to overeating and lack of exercise ... Please consider the facts and advice in this recent video ... Too many old wives' tales have brainwashed us into assuming that overeating is the sole cause of obesity ... the video mentions our gut microbiome, the hard science thereof and the fact that it's one of the world's fastest growing areas of research ... video also emphasises that there is no 'one size fits all' healthy diet ... we are all different ... our metabolisms are all different. However, if you think you know better than qualified 'professional epidemiologists' who have been studying nutrition and the role of the gut microbiome in countering obesity, and have published over the years learned scientific papers / journals / books on the subject ... so be it. Also bear in mind that identical twins with identical genes and same diets and same exercise routines can have very different body weights ... as been irrefutably proved by the 'twins study'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSzkYsiSD5o.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Obesity is not necessarily related to overeating and lack of exercise ... Please consider the facts and advice in this recent video ...
    Agreed. Not “necessarily” but 95%, or whatever, of the time. I don’t need to watch videos. The proportion of overweight people has increased significantly over the last few decades. I have the evidence of my own eyes!!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Agreed. Not “necessarily” but 95%, or whatever, of the time. I don’t need to watch videos. The proportion of overweight people has increased significantly over the last few decades. I have the evidence of my own eyes!!
    A not unexpected / unprecedented response ... But other forum members might disagree with you after watching the video. Scientific 'peer reviewed' studies published by professionally qualified and learned epidemiologists / nutritionists do not include 'whatever' figures / %-ages grabbed out of thin air. Yes there is an obesity epidemic ... but not all obese people including your alleged 95% are sedentary gluttons. But never mind ... everyone is entitled to their own point of view.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The picture you paint is just one cause of obesity ... there are others ... and one other in particular ... which can result in obesity regardless of what a person eats
    Sorry, but your last line is hoop. Doesn’t matter what propensity people have towards obesity; if they limit calorie intake, they will lose weight. You cannot get fat just breathing!

    Unfortunately, many use your argument to excuse gluttony, poor diet or inactivity…‘ nothing I can do about it…..poor me etc’. Controlled intake and exercise will bear results.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    Separate argument but I think this "eating or heating" crisis with regard to prices of energy and food going up us bollocks. I don't believe people can't afford to eat, I think they can't afford to eat at the level they've been accustomed to. Take-aways, crisps, chocolate, junk food have now become a luxury to low income families instead of a daily staple.
    I'm new to healthy eating to be fair and I've been astonished at how cheaply you can feed the family. Fresh veg and a healthy portion of meat (not a slab of steak or a kilo of chicken, like we used to) costs hardly anything. A weekly take-away (which is now every 3 weeks instead) was generally £40 for the four of us. I can almost do a weekly shop on that now.
    BLIMEY that's impressive, feeding 4 for a week on 40 quid or so, good on you.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete D View Post
    Sorry, but your last line is hoop. Doesn’t matter what propensity people have towards obesity; if they limit calorie intake, they will lose weight. You cannot get fat just breathing!

    Unfortunately, many use your argument to excuse gluttony, poor diet or inactivity…‘ nothing I can do about it…..poor me etc’. Controlled intake and exercise will bear results.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The calories in / calories out argument has been disproved ... but calorie counters will never agree. I am not trying to promote/excuse gluttony & overeating ... both will result in weight increase / obesity ... but they are not the sole cause of obesity.

    Microbiome studies are not on most forum members radars and might never be ... but that is their choice ... They will continue to 'count calories' and give themselves a pat on the back when they reach target weights by whatever means ... but will also very likely and within a few weeks of reaching target, put on weight again ... and then start the whole calorie counting / measuring routine all over again. With a healthy microbiome diet tailored to an individual's needs, calorie counting is unnecessary ... as proved by learned / qualified / professional / epidemiologists and nutritionists who've published peer reviewed studies / papers / journals on the subject and who are very much more knowledgable than the forum calorie counters . And excessive exercise is not necessary to maintain a steady weight.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  35. #135
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    Dunc,

    You are very correct about the importance of the microbiome and its impact on obesity.
    What people are saying here is that a lot of obese people are obese because of junk food and lack of exercise.

    So by regulating junk food / having a public health campaign / whatever, you will target a significant percentage of those who became obese because of it, and more importantly you will reduce the number of kids whose biome is completely messed up with what they are fed and the long term consequences that will result from it.

    I do not want to argue what that "significant" percentage is because it will become the tree that masks the forest. There may be more things that need to be changed, to address other causes of obesity, but the longest journey starts with a first step.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  36. #136
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Dunc,

    You are very correct about the importance of the microbiome and its impact on obesity.
    What people are saying here is that a lot of obese people are obese because of junk food and lack of exercise.

    So by regulating junk food / having a public health campaign / whatever, you will target a significant percentage of those who became obese because of it, and more importantly you will reduce the number of kids whose biome is completely messed up with what they are fed and the long term consequences that will result from it.

    I do not want to argue what that "significant" percentage is because it will become the tree that masks the forest. There may be more things that need to be changed, to address other causes of obesity, but the longest journey starts with a first step.
    Yes they are generally right ... BUT ... ( always a but :) ) They also also seem to assume or imply that most obese people are overweight because they overeat / eat the wrong types of foods / don't exercise ... and one member posts a link showing an obese young lady to try and illustrate their POV ... BUT ... that young lady likely is exercising ... and could be fitter and eating more healthily than her critics ... Her obesity could be due to a number of reasons / factors other than overeating.

    Caesarian born babies can lack the microbes transmitted via normal birth i.e. vaginal microbes which would otherwise contribute to their microbiome ... and their lack of same can result in their actual but fewer gut / skin microbes becoming over-dominant That imbalance at 'birth' might take weeks or months to correct ... or 'nearly correct' ... and as a result, the person's "compromised microbiome" might contribute to a propensity for obesity ... That microbe (microbiome) imbalance can also be caused by e.g. medications compromising the microbiome ... particularly antibiotics ... which are given to livestock to encourage weight gain. However, the imbalance can be corrected by ingesting or encouraging the 'missing' microbes ... as advocated by epidemiologist / nutritionist Prof. Tim Spector and his team ... who've benefited themselves from adopting a 'healthy microbiome diet' ... and LOST WEIGHT after adopting same ... and who do not need to 'count calories' to maintain their 'happy with' BMI

    EDIT: Not suggesting that the particular young lady was born via caesarian ... obesity can be caused by a number of factors .. it's not only due to junk food / overeating/ lack of exercise
    Last edited by sundial; 26th May 2022 at 17:47.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    ...
    I think a healthy gut is probably important. But if you follow the advice of Phil Spector et al, you will end up eating less overall and less junk specifically. I've read some interviews where he discussed changes he made to his own diet. He changed his breakfast from processed breakfast cereal to yogurt and kefir. He ate smaller portion of meat and significantly more veg. Yes these all contained probiotics, possibly improved his gut biome (he admits he has no before data for himself) but he also cut out calories, sugar, processed fat and increased his fibre intake. Overeating on junk food cannot be counteracted by adding some kefir kimchee and a supplement or two.

  38. #138
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    Hmm, just to add my two penny-worth.

    Surely a diet high in processed food isn't good for one's gut micro-biome either. So whether one's obesity is caused by too many calories or an unhealthy gut (or a sliding scale between the two extremes) then eating healthily is going to benefit one way or another.

    And to add to the already confounding number of factors linked to obesity. I understand that whether or not a person was breastfed as an infant is also affects the liklihood of becoming obese.

    As has already been said, its complicated

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    The calories in / calories out argument has been disproved ... but calorie counters will never agree. I am not trying to promote/excuse gluttony & overeating ... both will result in weight increase / obesity ... but they are not the sole cause of obesity.
    I don't think anyone is saying that it is the sole cause ... but over eating / eating rubbish / not moving is the MAJOR cause ... I don't know the % but I'd bet it is a big number much closer to 100 than 1 ...

    Focusing on the minority isn't helpful given the scope of the issue that is a major issue with UK health.

    When I'm on the school run I am saddened when I see the number of fat kits coming out of school ...
    Last edited by Montello; 26th May 2022 at 18:54.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    ... Prof. Tim Spector and his team ...
    I agree. They have also started treating IBS with stool transplant (FMT)
    The understanding of the importance of microbiome is in its infancy.
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  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I agree. They have also started treating IBS with stool transplant (FMT)
    The understanding of the importance of microbiome is in its infancy.
    Definitely ... and in future will likely be 'routinely measured / analysed' by hospital OP depts. to establish patients' "missing beneficial gut / skin microbes" ...including the microbes or imbalances thereof contributing to obesity

    Immune deficiency diseases are already being treated via faeces transplants at a Bedford clinic ... and University of Birmingham has a Microbiome Treatment Centre specialising in faecal transplants treating / remedying Clostridium difficile infections ... a procedure likely to cause "shock horror !!" reactions to many people ... especially those who regard the colon as the dustbin of the body never to be mentioned apart from in silly jokes ... whereas those 'aware and in the know' regard it as our personal eco-system hosting our 'second brain' i.e the billions of gut microbiota contributing to healthy immune systems. The faecal transplants from approved donors are specially prepared / tested and comprise relatively small 'doses'.
    Last edited by sundial; 26th May 2022 at 19:36.
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  42. #142
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    Uuuurrgghhhh......I came here to make a childish joke about the thread title sounding like a follow-up from a reformed Sex Pistols.

    I've ended up reading about vaginal microbes and faeces implants......I'm off.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    Uuuurrgghhhh......I came here to make a childish joke about the thread title sounding like a follow-up from a reformed Sex Pistols.

    I've ended up reading about vaginal microbes and faeces implants......I'm off.
    Everyone who has a natural birth through their mother's vagina gains vaginal microbes ... which provide / add to, a baby's essential skin, mouth and gut microbiota for a healthy start in life.

    We cannot survive without our microbes ... they're all over us and inside us ... but maybe not on some short sighted WIS' radars who maybe cannot accept 'the facts of life' ... and how we have evolved over thousands of years ... culturing our mothers' (and thus ancestors') birth gift .. so essential to developing a healthy immune system.

    And those essential microbes are also gained via breast milk and our mother's breasts and nipples ... We are all covered in microbes ...and likely more than a few million in / on our watch straps / bracelets
    Last edited by sundial; 27th May 2022 at 20:45. Reason: typo
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    BLIMEY that's impressive, feeding 4 for a week on 40 quid or so, good on you.
    The kids have school dinners so it's not that hard - £40 does a basic shop in Aldi for a weeks worth of evening meals, then a few fresh bits (bread and milk really) that we have to buy a couple of times through the week. We used to spend twice that shopping in Tesco, although that often included a few beers and a couple of bottles of wine and we've almost given up drinking at home now (part of the weight loss kick rather than any sort of abstinence).
    I wish I'd discovered budget supermarkets sooner though, we were right snobs about lidl and aldi but definitely a convert now, for fresh stuff I genuinely think they are better quality than the big boys.

    A couple of weeks ago Nectar did an offer to swap your points for an extra 50% of sainsburys vouchers, so I swapped £40 of points for £60 of sainsburys credit. Did my shop as usual but adding a few extra bits in case I hadn't quite spent enough, got to the till at the end and a fairly modest trolley of stuff was £85 (mostly on fresh meat, I have to say). Long live Aldi.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    The kids have school dinners so it's not that hard - £40 does a basic shop in Aldi for a weeks worth of evening meals, then a few fresh bits (bread and milk really) that we have to buy a couple of times through the week. We used to spend twice that shopping in Tesco, although that often included a few beers and a couple of bottles of wine and we've almost given up drinking at home now (part of the weight loss kick rather than any sort of abstinence).
    I wish I'd discovered budget supermarkets sooner though, we were right snobs about lidl and aldi but definitely a convert now, for fresh stuff I genuinely think they are better quality than the big boys.

    A couple of weeks ago Nectar did an offer to swap your points for an extra 50% of sainsburys vouchers, so I swapped £40 of points for £60 of sainsburys credit. Did my shop as usual but adding a few extra bits in case I hadn't quite spent enough, got to the till at the end and a fairly modest trolley of stuff was £85 (mostly on fresh meat, I have to say). Long live Aldi.
    Cool, did wonder tbh if you were managing breakfast, lunch and dinner for 40 quid for 4 people, not saying it couldn't be done but I suspect choices could be limited..I believe in cooking almost all of what we eat from scratch, so like you I've no prejudices about where I buy the stuff providing quality is still decent...or when friend or neighbour turns up with surplus from their garden, we got given about 3 stones of unshelled almonds some months ago, should see us into next year...
    Last edited by Passenger; 28th May 2022 at 11:21.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    Long live Aldi.
    We were always Sainsbury shoppers a few years back until we found Aldi. I reckon we have saved hundreds there.
    A lot of people as you said are supermarket snobs that shop at Waitrose/Sainsbury wasting money. Still, it's their choice but in these times one has to be prudent with costs rocketing.

  47. #147
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    As said and reiterated many times, there are a minority of people with genuine reasons why they gain weight or can't seem to lose it. The same as there a minority of people with other 'differences' such as gender dysphoria etc.
    The acceptance of being overweight/obese is a big issue. In our history you would only see hugely fat people if they were wealthy gluttons or even in circus freak shows.
    Today in our society there are a lot of people who can hardly walk without sticks or wheelchairs, need special facilities in hospitals due to obesity.
    Families where every member old to young is blatantly overweight and they walk the streets with handfuls of food. Even babies in buggies given chocolate and fast foods to keep them 'comforted' and if not they scream and wail until the maw is stuffed.
    Walk the streets of any town before disagreeing with the above.
    Eat less, especially processed crap and move more. It is a simple equation for the vast majority of people.
    If like myself you need (have) to eat less and move more than your skinny partner or friends then that's what you have to do, no excuses based on the minority with issues will change that.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    As said and reiterated many times, there are a minority of people with genuine reasons why they gain weight or can't seem to lose it. The same as there a minority of people with other 'differences' such as gender dysphoria etc.
    The acceptance of being overweight/obese is a big issue. In our history you would only see hugely fat people if they were wealthy gluttons or even in circus freak shows.
    Today in our society there are a lot of people who can hardly walk without sticks or wheelchairs, need special facilities in hospitals due to obesity.
    Families where every member old to young is blatantly overweight and they walk the streets with handfuls of food. Even babies in buggies given chocolate and fast foods to keep them 'comforted' and if not they scream and wail until the maw is stuffed.
    Walk the streets of any town before disagreeing with the above.
    Eat less, especially processed crap and move more. It is a simple equation for the vast majority of people.
    If like myself you need (have) to eat less and move more than your skinny partner or friends then that's what you have to do, no excuses based on the minority with issues will change that.
    You are wrong in stating those with genuine reasons why they cannot lose weight are a 'minority' ... you are generalising ... and you have not defined exactly what your definition of a 'minority' is ... or how you define obesity.

    Yes there are those who over-indulge when eating and are thus overweight ... but there are also those who eat sensibly and exercise who still find themselves overweight ... and they can be overweight for several reasons ... and they are not a 'minority' because there are significant numbers of them.

    Too many 'critics' assume that all overweight people can simply lose weight by dieting & / or eating 'sensibly' and taking more exercise ... but this is not necessarily true ... There is no one diet which will suit everyone or have the same weight loss effect on everyone ... and anyone who thinks there is needs to broaden their knowledge and stop falling onto the trap of assuming that obesity results mainly from overeating ... and should stop pointing their fingers at e.g. 'fat families' seen walking the streets ... those 'fat families' do not necessarily over-indulge when eating ... and there are significant numbers of them. I've previously made reference to Professor Time Spector's identical twins study which proves beyond doubt that obesity is not necessarily due to over-eating. Please consider checking out the ZOE podcasts for more information ... all FREE and could be an eye-opener for those prepared to learn more about obesity.
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    You are wrong in stating those with genuine reasons why they cannot lose weight are a 'minority' ... you are generalising ... and you have not defined exactly what your definition of a 'minority' is ... or how you define obesity.

    Yes there are those who over-indulge when eating and are thus overweight ... but there are also those who eat sensibly and exercise who still find themselves overweight ... and they can be overweight for several reasons ... and they are not a 'minority' because there are significant numbers of them.

    Too many 'critics' assume that all overweight people can simply lose weight by dieting & / or eating 'sensibly' and taking more exercise ... but this is not necessarily true ... There is no one diet which will suit everyone or have the same weight loss effect on everyone ... and anyone who thinks there is needs to broaden their knowledge and stop falling onto the trap of assuming that obesity results mainly from overeating ... and should stop pointing their fingers at e.g. 'fat families' seen walking the streets ... those 'fat families' do not necessarily over-indulge when eating ... and there are significant numbers of them. I've previously made reference to Professor Time Spector's identical twins study which proves beyond doubt that obesity is not necessarily due to over-eating. Please consider checking out the ZOE podcasts for more information ... all FREE and could be an eye-opener for those prepared to learn more about obesity.

    This kind of response is what I was expecting. All obesity results from overeating . If you eat more than you need it becomes fat and waste. There were few(er) fat people during the war and rationing. There were no fat people in concentration camps.
    We are a society that makes excuses for gluttony in all forms.
    Two similar people with similar lifestyles will not necessarily respond to food intake and excercise in the same way, that's a given. But unless they adjust intake to suit their physiology one will gain weight more than the other.
    Last edited by Harry Smith; 28th May 2022 at 14:06.

  50. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    You are wrong in stating those with genuine reasons why they cannot lose weight are a 'minority' ... you are generalising ... and you have not defined exactly what your definition of a 'minority' is ... or how you define obesity.

    Yes there are those who over-indulge when eating and are thus overweight ... but there are also those who eat sensibly and exercise who still find themselves overweight ... and they can be overweight for several reasons ... and they are not a 'minority' because there are significant numbers of them.

    Too many 'critics' assume that all overweight people can simply lose weight by dieting & / or eating 'sensibly' and taking more exercise ... but this is not necessarily true ... There is no one diet which will suit everyone or have the same weight loss effect on everyone ... and anyone who thinks there is needs to broaden their knowledge and stop falling onto the trap of assuming that obesity results mainly from overeating ... and should stop pointing their fingers at e.g. 'fat families' seen walking the streets ... those 'fat families' do not necessarily over-indulge when eating ... and there are significant numbers of them. I've previously made reference to Professor Time Spector's identical twins study which proves beyond doubt that obesity is not necessarily due to over-eating. Please consider checking out the ZOE podcasts for more information ... all FREE and could be an eye-opener for those prepared to learn more about obesity.
    Minority hardly needs defining - it’s the lesser part and obese generally considered to be with a BMI of >30.
    As for those fat families, fat (obviously) comes from the food they consume so the’re over-eating - maybe not compared to others with a more normal weight but more than they personally need.

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