COVID Vaccines for kids (5-11)

[Boss13]

Had a leaflet through the post and really conflicted on this. What are thoughts of others?

We (adults) have had every vaccine offered as soon as it was available. But for the 5-11 age group I really am not sure it is required. Haven't read much into this and I am sure the argument will be there is a small chance they could catch it and get very ill or that they could catch it without symptoms and pass it on (which we think is how we got it actually)...

Any more scientific opinions?

(For years kids didn't have the flu vaccine, but last year it was done in the school, we went along with it, this time is is an opt in for COVID vaccine and book yourself so I guess more of a decision)

[Skip]

Been thinking about this quite a bit myself, as both of ours are in this age group. Was talking to a GP friend about it this morning (our boys are in the same class) He told me that the chances of kids this age getting seriously sick are very small, and that he felt the vaccine was being rolled out to them in an effort to build up the “herd immunity” When I asked if he was going to get it for his kids his answer was “eventually”
I think this is probably my answer as well. I don’t see there’s any need to rush out and be the first to get them done (like I wanted to for me and the wife!) COVID has been rampant through their school and neither had any problems, but if it ultimately helps to either wipe it out or bring it under control then it probably needs to be done.

[Neal666]

No thanks.

[southerner101]

Let them be kids. They have been through enough without having to worry about the prospect of multiple jabs for the foreseeable future.

[el marinero]

Please, no. A simple cost benefit analysis says that young kids don´t need a COVID jab. This isn´t life long protection like other vaccines that we give kids, it´s a short term prophylactic. The direct risk from coviD for under 12s is so small as to be effectively unmeasurable. Of course, those children who are vulnerable because of other serious health concerns should probably get the shot.
I could go on, the arguments against this are countless, children have suffered enough through all this. I only reply to this thread because it´s a discussion that we have had in the family.
And look around the world at the governments that are withdrawing vaccines for kids. Even in the UK the JCVI advice still remains that the jab for kids is available as 'an offer'. And they were strong-armed into that even.
One final thought; even if the herd immunity argument was valid and as many peaople have argued, that kids should be vaccinated to stop transmision, what have we become if we ask our kids to do something with even the slightest risk to their health (and no benefit) for the protection of ourselves, the adults? It´s immoral.

[tango]

An absolute no no for me, but then I guess it easy for me to take that stance given I don't have kids in that age group.

We were amongst the first to take up the vaccines for my wife, myself and my older children but we were always apprehensive about our 14 year daughter.

She eventually did catch Covid at the same time as my wife and I and was not too bad with it, despite being unvaccinated. That just reinforced our decision not to have her vaccinated we also chose not be to boosted.

I am not suggesting there is a right or wrong way around this, just merely sharing my thoughts and experiences on the same.

[Kingstepper]

Please, no. A simple cost benefit analysis says that young kids don´t need a COVID jab. This isn´t life long protection like other vaccines that we give kids, it´s a short term prophylactic. The direct risk from coviD for under 12s is so small as to be effectively unmeasurable. Of course, those children who are vulnerable because of other serious health concerns should probably get the shot.
I could go on, the arguments against this are countless, children have suffered enough through all this. I only reply to this thread because it´s a discussion that we have had in the family.
And look around the world at the governments that are withdrawing vaccines for kids. Even in the UK the JCVI advice still remains that the jab for kids is available as 'an offer'. And they were strong-armed into that even.
One final thought; even if the herd immunity argument was valid and as many peaople have argued, that kids should be vaccinated to stop transmision, what have we become if we ask our kids to do something with even the slightest risk to their health (and no benefit) for the protection of ourselves, the adults? It´s immoral.

Come on, give us a few more then.

[Mick P]

There are arguments for and against and none of us really know for sure who is right.

If I had a young child I would have them vaccinated purely because I respect the scientific advice advising us to do it.

[southerner101]

There are arguments for and against and none of us really know for sure who is right.

If I had a young child I would have them vaccinated purely because I respect the scientific advice advising us to do it.

Got to respect the advice given that’s for sure!

RIP to all the elderly who died needlessly in the care homes scandal at the hands of Hancocks incompetence.

[Onelasttime]

Not a chance. Completely unnecessary.

And talk of herd immunity is nonsense. As the virus develops we’ll always be one step behind, as with flu.

I think the vaccines have done their job, saved lives, made a minority of people an awful lot of money, but have had their time.

[M4tt]

Already done. If we get a variant that specialises in children, by the time we realise what the problem is, it will be too late. Vaccination is just education for the immune system.

[Boss13]

Thanks all, sometimes just need some reassurance when trying to make a decision about kids, given emotions involved.

Didn't help with emails from the school to urge the vaccine...looks like my wife got it right in binning the leaflet immediately and saying the decision is made!

Edit: I didn't see M4tt's post before posting, so this was not a response to that view.

[Passenger]

Already done. If we get a variant that specialises in children, by the time we realise what the problem is, it will be too late. Vaccination is just education for the immune system.

Yup our lad's had both of his, why not.

[Mick P]

Not a chance. Completely unnecessary.

And talk of herd immunity is nonsense. As the virus develops we’ll always be one step behind, as with flu.

I think the vaccines have done their job, saved lives, made a minority of people an awful lot of money, but have had their time.

and your medical qualifications are ?

[southerner101]

Already done. If we get a variant that specialises in children, by the time we realise what the problem is, it will be too late. Vaccination is just education for the immune system.

Will that vaccine they have now be relevant for a new variant which specialises in children which is yet to be known to the drug manufacturers now? Do we just keep vaccinating until that variant comes around?
Serious question, as with that mind set we would be bracing for impact every time a car past us while driving .

[walkerwek1958]

Let them be kids. They have been through enough without having to worry about the prospect of multiple jabs for the foreseeable future.

How does giving them a jab which will potentially benefit their health stop them being kids? I can’t understand this attitude, people seem to lose all sense of reason objectivity when kids are involved.

[Ivan Drago]

Not a chance mine will be having the vaccines.

All of my children have had covid and all they had was a runny nose.


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[Passenger]

How does giving them a jab which will potentially benefit their health stop them being kids? I can’t understand this attitude, people seem to lose all sense of reason objectivity when kids are involved.

Don't get it either.

[southerner101]

How does giving them a jab which will potentially benefit their health stop them being kids? I can’t understand this attitude, people seem to lose all sense of reason objectivity when kids are involved.

A child shouldn’t have to have the stress of being isolated in their bedrooms out of fear of infecting there mum, dad and sister with a cold/flu. Zero logic as they are in the same house! This is what’s been happening. Seeing their parents getting vaccinated and still being terrified of catching a virus they are vaccinated from. We know how fragile our mental health is later in life but to young children? Heart breaking.
Could you tell a child he/she is getting a vaccine but you will still catch the thing you are vaccinated for? I certainly don’t have the training to deliver that information correctly to a child.

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/publ...d-young-people

In the case of the SARS epidemic, stress scores for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) were reported by parents to be 4 times higher in children quarantined than those not quarantined8,9: in this case, criteria for PTSD was met by 30% of quarantined children. A study from India, during the COVID-19 pandemic, yields similar results10 and further studies conducted in China find that young people report increased depressive symptoms and anxiety symptoms11 and can experience negative psychological consequences as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic12.

Qualitative evidence indicates a number of reasons for these findings including the perceived threat of the virus, confusion, disruption, and isolation imposed by this type of health-related crisis8

[Saint-Just]

Got to respect the advice given that’s for sure!

RIP to all the elderly who died needlessly in the care homes scandal at the hands of Hancocks incompetence.

You are either deliberately creating a straw man argument, or overlooked the fact that Mick said "scientific" advice. Which entirely eliminates the clown you mentioned.

That said, a scientific truth is one that is corroborated by all existing evidence until a new evidence doesn't match. In this respect It is not aberrant to be cautious when facing a new scientific conundrum.
We understand well what vaccines do: they "prime", they educate our immune system so that it then identifies and reacts faster to a threat.
We also know that there is such a thing as uncontrolled immune system reactions. I do not have children in that age group anymore, and my 16yo is boosted. I think that on balance a mutation that affects children more is more likely than a bad reaction from the immune system considering the millions who have been inoculated and would get her vaccinated if she was still in that age group, but I understand those who want to be cautious.
However, I do not respect the argument that says "children have suffered enough, leave them be kids"; quite the opposite really, as the vaccine, once explained, can act as a form of closure over the Covid saga, as well as potentially avoid a repeat.

[Passenger]

'Fear is the mind killer', live fearlessly but not recklessly...I think kids are tougher than we think/ those stats show, especially if as parents we are not acting 'terrified', but remained balanced and pragmatic about and during the pandemic ourselves, thereby setting an example, showing, teaching resilience...IF my nipper had caught it, I wouldn't have quarantined him within our home fwiw, neither my wife or myself were at higher risk, nor did we need to worry about employment/ enforced absences, so I appreciate the experience of others could've been different. Also the lockdowns and advice throughout here did seem a lot less contradictory, more coherent and sensibly applied than perhaps was experienced in GB...I lost track of how many times the UK leadership declared it would be over in a couple of weeks,months only for covid to prove them wrong, not good for the morale or mental health of those in the thick of it, to keep witnessing the people in charge flailing and failing against the virus whilst claiming to be world leading...It felt more consistently managed, safer over here. Though perhaps not surprisingly I was often concerned, worried for my own UK based elderly parents, though that's the circle of life exacerbated by incompetence and seeking to put the economy over public health, innit.

Just my view though and as parents we can only do our best.

[dougair]

I respect the scientific advice advising us to do it.

Hmm, would love to see the compelling scientific evidence if you have a link?

[Onelasttime]

and your medical qualifications are ?

I can read. What’s your excuse?

[southerner101]

'Fear is the mind killer', live fearlessly but not recklessly...I think kids are tougher than we think/ those stats show, especially if as parents we are not acting 'terrified', but remained balanced and pragmatic about and during the pandemic ourselves, thereby setting an example, showing, teaching resilience...IF my nipper had caught it, I wouldn't have quarantined him within our home fwiw, neither my wife or myself were at higher risk, nor did we need to worry about employment/ enforced absences, so I appreciate the experience of others could've been different. Also the lockdowns and advice throughout here did seem a lot less contradictory, more coherent and sensibly applied than perhaps was experienced in GB...I lost track of how many times the UK leadership declared it would be over in a couple of weeks,months only for covid to prove them wrong, not good for the morale or mental health of those in the thick of it, to keep witnessing the people in charge flailing and failing against the virus...It felt more consistently managed, safer over here. Though perhaps not surprisingly I was often concerned, worried for my own UK based elderly parents, though that's the circle of life exacerbated by incompetence and seeking to put the economy over public health, innit.

Just my view though and as parents we can only do our best.

Nicely put and respected 100%.

[ryanb741]

My son is classed as vulnerable and we have jabbed him. He already had Covid prior to the jab.

If you give your kids the childhood jabs (MMR etc) and not the Covid jabs is that not a sign you are still wary of the Covid vaccines? Not a criticism BTW, just a statement that fake news seems to still be working.

[dougair]

My son is classed as vulnerable and we have jabbed him. He already had Covid prior to the jab.

If you give your kids the childhood jabs (MMR etc) and not the Covid jabs is that not a sign you are still wary of the Covid vaccines? Not a criticism BTW, just a statement that fake news seems to still be working.

MMR gives lifelong protection against potentially deadly diseases in children though …

[Mick P]

[QUOTE=Onelasttime;5984664]I can read. What’s your excuse?[/QUOTE

The Government is trying to vaccinate children and paying the cost of it due to medical experts saying it is the best thing to do. They know better than anyone on this forum and that includes you.

[Neil.C]

Already done. If we get a variant that specialises in children, by the time we realise what the problem is, it will be too late. Vaccination is just education for the immune system.

I don't have any young children but if I did this is the stance I would take.

[paw3001]

I have 2 kids, 15 and 11.

Both vaccinated. 15 year old boosted. 11 year old has had both half doses of PfizerBiotech. Will be boosted once over 12.

So far no harm, no covid from school. All healthy and no second head has started growing.

The basic science of vaccination is solid. The evidence of the vaccines in children is good and of good quality. Very clear benefits and risks highlighted to allow an informed decision when you understand the risks of SARS-CoV2

Make your choice on the risks you wish to take with your own children. I am happy with the decisions my wife and I made with our children.

[Onelasttime]

[QUOTE=Mick P;5984697]

I can read. What’s your excuse?[/QUOTE

The Government is trying to vaccinate children and paying the cost of it due to medical experts saying it is the best thing to do. They know better than anyone on this forum and that includes you.

Except the medical experts have said no such thing. But crack on.

[chris56]

My children are not young anymore - they are in fact young adults which seems to happen so quickly. If they were young then my approach would be the same as M4tt and Neil.C.
My son whilst not an expert in Covid has a degree, Masters in Medical Sciences , Phd in Medical research in a specialist area related to specific illness’s that affect young children’s brains. He has published several medical research papers and continues his work at a well known University in conjunction with a well known hospital. His view is that vaccination of young children makes scientific sense and is the right thing to do to protect young children. One of his main concerns about Covid in general is that as yet we do not know the long term impact on people who caught Covid unvaccinated or indeed those who caught Covid after being vaccinated. There are some worrying signals that the outlook is not good and in particular for those who were unvaccinated.

[Mick P]

[QUOTE=Onelasttime;5984741]

Except the medical experts have said no such thing. But crack on.

So please explain why this stingy government is spending money on vaccinating children.

[southerner101]

[QUOTE=Mick P;5984749]

So please explain why this stingy government is spending money on vaccinating children.

Because they want to offer vaccinations to children?. The governments ability to spend money isn’t at question here. They have done very very well so far throughout this pandemic!

[TimeThoughts]

Almost everyone I know that contracted covid (including myself and the wife) have contracted it from kids.

I think if vaccinating kids breaks that link it makes sense.

[china]

My kids have had the covid shots, the schools handled it and it was not difficult or strenuous for anyone.

[jaytip]

Almost everyone I know that contracted covid (including myself and the wife) have contracted it from kids.

I think if vaccinating kids breaks that link it makes sense.

It’s not going to break that link though. Reduce the chance, yes, break the link, no.
As we now all know you can still catch and pass on covid despite being vaccinated.

[monogroover]

Except the medical experts have said no such thing. But crack on.

Not in a general sense as far as I'm aware but the JCVI did say that, with an important qualification with respect to 5-11 year olds.

See : https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-december-2021

"Primary vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds

When formulating advice in relation to childhood immunisations, JCVI has consistently held that the main focus of its considerations should be the potential benefits and harms of vaccination to children and young people themselves. "

and

"At the current time, JCVI considers the balance of potential benefits and harms is in favour of offering vaccination to children aged 5 to 11 years who are in a clinical risk group. Children aged 5 to 11 year old who are not in a clinical risk group but are household contacts of a immunosuppressed individual (of any age) should also be offered COVID-19 vaccination on the understanding that the main indication for vaccination is to indirectly increase protection of the person who is immunosuppressed"

[David_D]

One of his main concerns about Covid in general is that as yet we do not know the long term impact on people who caught Covid unvaccinated or indeed those who caught Covid after being vaccinated.

We don’t know the long term impact of the vaccinations because they haven’t been subject to long term tests.

[paw3001]

We don’t know the long term impact of the vaccinations because they haven’t been subject to long term tests.

Tell us you don’t know anything about vaccinations and how they work without telling us you don’t know anything about vaccinations and how they work!

[Saint-Just]

Tell us you don’t know anything about vaccinations and how they work without telling us you don’t know anything about vaccinations and how they work!

This, in a nutshell. Sad after so much has been done in the other thread(s) by people like you, M4tt and a few others.

That’s where Harry Frankfurt’s work comes into its own, as mentioned by M4tt a few days ago (on bullshit).

[chris56]

This, in a nutshell. Sad after so much has been done in the other thread(s) by people like you, M4tt and a few others.

That’s where Harry Frankfurt’s work comes into its own, as mentioned by M4tt a few days ago (on bullshit).

Agreed - there is little point trying to explain it yet again to these type of posters. I too find it very sad and depressing.

[bloater]

My wife works in a children’s hospital, the number of children with covid in the hospital just before Easter was higher than at any time during the pandemic.
My kids are older than the age range, 16 and 19 both decided they wanted the vaccinations and they did their own research if they had been younger we would have taken them for vaccination.

My daughter now 16 has had covid twice, the first time you wouldn’t have known if the test hadn’t shown she had it, the second time she was rough, my wife caught covid at a Christmas and was very ill and now has long covid, she was triple jabbed when she got it, I question if she would be here today without them.

[Devonian]

We were going to get our 5 year old jabbed but she had covid a few weeks back and they advise against it for a number of weeks after, so we have to wait now.

We’re not scientists, nor pretend to be. You have to make the choice that you feel is right for your family and we think getting the jab is the best option.

[J J Carter]

I wouldn't. If they did catch COVID now it's overwhelmingly likely to be the Omicron AB.x variants which infect the upper airways which is why the symptoms are akin to a cold of runny nose etc. Unless the children have co-morbidities, the risk of serious illness is vanishingly small compared to the COVID Alpha and Delta variants which generally impacted the lungs

Also catching Omicron generates anti-bodies that recognise all parts of the virus, not just the spike proteins coded in the vaccines. This ensure excellent long-term enhanced immunity to further variants. Getting the vaccine after having Omicron provides negligible additional protection.

The safety data on the mRNA vaccines is, shall we say, open to interpretation especially for young people. Because nothing says trust the science like locking away the data for 75 years!

Denmark has just halted vaccinations on the evidence that the pandemic is under control.

NB before anyone sounds off about being 'anti-vax' I had my two AZ