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Thread: Sub alternatives

  1. #1
    Master
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    Sub alternatives

    I have a 16610 Swiss Only from 1999. Super watch, and I love it.

    Thinking, however, about selling to pay of some mortgage, enabling an earlier retirement. I know the value will most likely increase, but it's nice to calcuate these things.

    What are the best alternatives for a high quality dive watch?

    I do like the Seamasters, but any others? Open to any maker. Particualrly interested in German options. Happy with secondhand, and would like to have £5k out (reckon it is worth £8k, so max spend £3k).

    I prefer 40mm or thereabouts. Don't want homage watches.

    Do your worst!

    TIA.

  2. #2
    Master
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    Assume you are happy with a different prices, looks and styles, so alongside the seamaster 300 or planet ocean, you could look at a Doxa 600t, Breitling superocean, iwc aquatimer, longines legend diver or Zenith defy extreme if you want left field and huge though I know you said 40mm...

    Or a dreadnought from Eddie.

  3. #3
    Master
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    At the risk of being mr obvious, the Black Bay 58 is the obvious choice. Sinn U50 is a good German option albeit with a more unique aesthetic.

  4. #4
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    At the risk of being mr obvious, the Black Bay 58 is the obvious choice. Sinn U50 is a good German option albeit with a more unique aesthetic.
    Forgot about the U50. Excellent choice.

  5. #5
    I would get a used GS diver.

    Dont know about the German watches, I had an expensive Sinn and no chance it was worth its money, it was just an average watch with gimmicks.

  6. #6
    Master
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    Panerai 24

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  7. #7
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Could look at a black bay, either BB58 or BB41.

    Be mindful that the higher quality you go the less money youíll be left with and the reason for the exercise loses its purpose.

  8. #8
    Grand Master
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    Grand Seiko. Job done.

  9. #9
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Release some more money - just get a nice Damasko.

  10. #10
    Craftsman r.dawson's Avatar
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    Lots of the suggestions so far are very decent watches but for me it would be finding a happy spot between freeing up the cash Vs the disappointment of not having the Rolex Vs the watch you get.

    I'd rather have a slightly cheaper watch and have a big chunk of cash freed up. So I'd look at a a longines hydroconquest, Tudor black bay. Basically something under £2.5k with a discount.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    Bremont is always an option.
    My 301 is lovely. I've recently outed an IWC aquatimer that definitely punched above it's monetary standing. Lots of nice divers at that price point.

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  12. #12
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Bit off-the-radar, but Archimede's (house brand of case-maker Ickler) 'Sporttaucher' is beautifully put-together, and starts under £1000 to maximise those mortgage repayments. Easily the equal of better-known brands at 2-3 times the price. Lots of variants, too:








    &c, &c...

  13. #13
    Grand Master
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    I think the closest sub that isnt a sub would be the black pelagos or bb58.

    IMO other offerings aren't sub enough to make a satisfying almost like for like replacement, BUT, the SM300 with ceramic wave dial is a lovely watch so long as you can get it into your brain that it isnt subbing a sub, excuse pun.

    I dont think Sinn or Damasko would be like for like tbh. They're both great watches, but, personally I would struggle not to find them agricultural if directly comparing to a 16610 which is imo far more refined and suitable for most occasions.

  14. #14
    Craftsman pepere13's Avatar
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    FXD ?


  15. #15
    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    I'd stick with what you have because chances are whatever you get you'll look at it and think its nice but its no 16610 and spend more money on another.

  16. #16
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    IWC Aquatimer 3536 would be worth considering. There is a 03 on sales corner atm, personally I favour the 02.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apm101 View Post
    I have a 16610 Swiss Only from 1999. Super watch, and I love it.

    Thinking, however, about selling to pay of some mortgage, enabling an earlier retirement. I know the value will most likely increase, but it's nice to calcuate these things.

    What are the best alternatives for a high quality dive watch?

    I do like the Seamasters, but any others? Open to any maker. Particualrly interested in German options. Happy with secondhand, and would like to have £5k out (reckon it is worth £8k, so max spend £3k).

    I prefer 40mm or thereabouts. Don't want homage watches.

    Do your worst!

    TIA.
    £5K is hardly going to make a dent in a mortgage.

    Stick with what you have IMO instead of looking for a cheaper Sub-alike.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  18. #18
    Master
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    I fear there is no alternative. Lots of similar watches but if you love what you have you wonít be satisfied with an alternate choice.

    BB58 is a great watch but not a sub.

    Hold what you have.

  19. #19
    Master
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    I think a Tourby Lawless would tick every box mentioned:

    https://www.tourby.de/armbanduhren/lawless/lawless-40/

    I've visited their shop and had a great chat with the watchmaker. I've only read good things and the quality certainly looked excellent across all the models I saw. Very small production nos. so you're unlikely to ever see another in the wild. Eur 1.8 - 2k, new.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pete-r View Post
    Forgot about the U50. Excellent choice.
    Iíve had a few 16610ís and a Sinn U1 and they are about as different as chalk and cheese!
    I wore a 16610 LV as a daily for about 7 years, followed by a U1 and the Sinn never really felt right to me - too clinical. I recently bought a black dialled BB58 and Iím really enjoying it - take away the brand and it feels like a slightly warmer dialled 5513 without the jangle tbh - and without the fear of service costs and muggers!


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  21. #21
    Ps I realised when I sold the LV Iíd be exiting the Rolex brand permanently- I donít like the newer models and the thought of paying anything over £3k for a battered 5 digit steel Rolex (having owned them from new when they were somewhere between £1500 and £3000) is not an option for me - even if I can afford it financially. I just donít think they are worth that much as a watch (perhaps they are as an investment but I like my watches to be worn as watches not as investments). I havenít regretted it as I realised Iíd flipped so many I clearly didnít like them that much - but itís a one way street imho - think carefully


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  22. #22
    Master
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    Ulysse Nardin Marine Diver. One of the very few dive watches that apes nothing from Blancpain/ Rolex dna besides basic dive watch requirements like a rotating bezel, crown guards, a crown, hands, etc.
    Base eta with UN module so repairs and servicing is cheap and easy.
    Truly an outstanding dive watch.
    Marine Divers are 40mm, maxi marines are 42-46 depending on year / model. Lots of colours and dial finishes to choose from. Rubber straps are phenomenally comfy thanks to the articulated inserts. Bracelets available but rare.

  23. #23
    Master
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    If your own 16610 has original papers then itís worth a good bit more than 8K
    A second handYudor BB58 is a super buy.(if only it didnít have those silly hands)


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  24. #24
    Master
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    I would seriously consider the white IWC on sc at the moment

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    If your own 16610 has original papers then itís worth a good bit more than 8K
    A second handYudor BB58 is a super buy.(if only it didnít have those silly hands)


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    I was going to say the same. With papers these seem to start at £10k now

    Iíd stick, as above itís an iconic watch, and will barely touch a mortgage Iíd imagine.

  26. #26
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    As a 16610 owner, I would keep it, and I think with papers itís probably £9.5K, not £8K, but if you really must liberate it:

    BB58 for a similar feel, although I would respectfully suggest itís not as satisfying a watch.

    Sinn U series. Itís very highly original and metallurgically interesting. I love my U1, but a U50 is closer to the Subs size, although I found it wore small. I would stalk SC for a suitable Sinn

    D


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  27. #27
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    What would Mick P say?

  28. #28
    Master
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    BB58.
    Thereís a belter on SC at the mo for only £1950 !


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  29. #29
    Craftsman
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    The Invicta Pro Diver will release most money to pay mortgage and is indistinguishable from the Subby


  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by J J Carter View Post
    The Invicta Pro Diver will release most money to pay mortgage and is indistinguishable from the Subby

    He specified no homages. But I donít think he said anything about shameless copies though:-)

  31. #31
    Craftsman
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    Monta are well regarded if you want something very much sub inspired, but not a homage.

  32. #32
    Craftsman
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    Personally Iíd keep it :)

  33. #33
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    Why is it that whenever one of these Ďwhat should I buy?í threads comes up, half the replies suggest the BB58?

    I tried one on recently and was seriously underwhelmed. Itís also titchy.

    Apologies to what I assume to be loads of satisfied owners, but I just donít get it.

    Iíll get my coat

    Simon

  34. #34
    Master Top Cat's Avatar
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    A decent alternative to a sub would have to be a JLC Navy Seals. 42mm but wears smaller. Perfect legibility and you can wear it without worry as its under the radar.

    Sorry, just re-read and saw max budget £3k. Scrap the JLC idea they are around £6k!!!

    Last edited by Top Cat; 30th April 2022 at 07:14.

  35. #35
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Sewills Professional Diver?



    This model is not (currently) in high demand so should be easily purchasable at the next TF opening.

  36. #36
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    Why is it that whenever one of these Ďwhat should I buy?í threads comes up, half the replies suggest the BB58?

    I tried one on recently and was seriously underwhelmed. Itís also titchy.

    Apologies to what I assume to be loads of satisfied owners, but I just donít get it.

    Iíll get my coat

    Simon
    I guess itís just a matter of preference. For my normal sized wrists the 58 is a great fit. I donít want to look like Iím wearing my dads watch.

    I think itís a great looking watch, good legibility, accurate movement with 70 hour PR, retro diver look Ö I like mine.

    Also relatively modest price for a ďluxuryĒ watch.

  37. #37
    Craftsman Idontgram's Avatar
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    Coming out of left field with what Iím sure would be a very unpopular choice among the watch illuminati, how about a TAG WAN2110? Easily found for well under 2k, ETA2892 inside. Itís a black diver but IMO not too much of sub copy.


  38. #38
    Master
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    Keep it would be my take, or if you must part with it get a completely different style of watch so your not comparing every time you put it on

  39. #39
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Steinhart? Ocean Premium?

    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly soĒ. HHGTTG

  40. #40
    Master OldHooky's Avatar
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    Seiko MM300, SBDX017. Has diashield, no Prospex ďXĒ, and a GS movement. Wears far better than the dimensions suggest, and mine is worn far more than my SD.

    Great looking to boot.

    And unlike a Rolex, you can buy them and will hardly ever see another.

  41. #41
    Craftsman
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    The answer to this seems to be quite obviously a Longines Hydroconquest surely? Classic diver aesthetic, bit of heritage, cheap as chips but high quality.

    You could always look at Christopher Ward or something like that, but they're marmite.

  42. #42
    Master
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    Seamaster 2254.5000?
    Elegant looks,
    Fairly readily available preowned,
    300m w/r,
    Chronometer,
    Highly legible,
    Looks good on a variety of straps,
    Not as ubiquitous as some other pieces.

  43. #43
    i second an iwc aquatimer or a panerai sub


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  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I guess itís just a matter of preference. For my normal sized wrists the 58 is a great fit. I donít want to look like Iím wearing my dads watch.

    I think itís a great looking watch, good legibility, accurate movement with 70 hour PR, retro diver look Ö I like mine.

    Also relatively modest price for a ďluxuryĒ watch.
    I recently tried on a range of Tudor watches and was surprised that the 58 looked and felt perfect on my 9 inch wrist! - a week of daily wear later Iím still delighted and it doesnít feel small at all. Some watches suit certain sizes imho. For instance a 44mm Panerai Luminor has the right proportions. The 40mm looks odd. I also thought the regular BB case seems ungainly in comparison. Having owned a few 5513 and 16610 subs, the 58 wears like a vintage Rolex without trying to look like one. Personally I canít stand any of the direct Rolex copies with a different brand on the dial - so naff, and I canít imagine anyone selling the real deal and being satisfied with a homage - get something a bit different :)


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  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    Why is it that whenever one of these Ďwhat should I buy?í threads comes up, half the replies suggest the BB58?

    I tried one on recently and was seriously underwhelmed. Itís also titchy.

    Apologies to what I assume to be loads of satisfied owners, but I just donít get it.

    Iíll get my coat

    Simon
    Like you I also gravitate towards more substantial watches but IMHO, BB 58 is one of the best watches to come out in the last decade.I wouldnít change a thing about it.

  46. #46
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Like you I also gravitate towards more substantial watches but IMHO, BB 58 is one of the best watches to come out in the last decade.I wouldnít change a thing about it.
    Clasp and rivets

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Clasp and rivets
    Snow flake hands and rivets have never bothered me. Clasp, yes.
    But I have it on a strap. So, no issues.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 1st May 2022 at 16:40.

  48. #48
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Snow flake hands and rivers have never bothered me. Clasp, yes.
    But I have it on a strap. So, no issues.
    Their GMT hands need trimming.

  49. #49
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Like you I also gravitate towards more substantial watches but IMHO, BB 58 is one of the best watches to come out in the last decade.I wouldnít change a thing about it.

    Agreed. If I could change one thing on the 58 it would be drilled lugs.

  50. #50
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Clasp and rivets
    The clasp needs more adjustment options but the rivets are fine I don't like the guilt details or faux lume on the bkack version so it's bb58 blue all the way for me. Fantastic watch that I am itching to buy back.

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