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Thread: Finally got a white dial SMITHS EVEREST to complete my Smith collection :)

  1. #51

    Angry

    Missed it again! out of stock at 14:02 !

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by oca9i View Post
    Missed it again! out of stock at 14:02 !
    I managed to bag one today (having missed twice before) and noticed many delays whilst the sale was being processed. In fact the delays were so bad I was surprised the sale went through ok. All done by 14.01 including receiving my confirmation email.

  3. #53
    Need to build a relationship with Eddie.

  4. #54
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    White dials are an absolute winner. Especially this time of year

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by YCymro View Post
    I managed to bag one today (having missed twice before) and noticed many delays whilst the sale was being processed. In fact the delays were so bad I was surprised the sale went through ok. All done by 14.01 including receiving my confirmation email.
    Lucky you are... I was a minute late!
    Congratulations

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by oca9i View Post
    Lucky you are... I was a minute late!
    Congratulations

    Sent from my MI MAX 2 using TZ-UK mobile app
    Thanks very much, but I think it’s due to nothing other than luck!

    I discovered these watches last Winter and failed to bag one at my first attempt but then ‘won’ one (I say won because purchasing one of these is gamefication rather than ‘buying a watch’) at the next sale to land a Jubilee. I liked this so tried unsuccessfully once more to land a white dial PRS25 and then snagged one yesterday at my fourth attempt in total.

    Frankly, as much as I like the watches and have found Eddie to be a tidy bloke, I don’t like this silly bun fight to be able to acquire one. It will need to be something very special to make me go through the rigmarole again.

    Good luck in your quest!

  7. #57

    Angry Out of stock at 14:01 !!!

    _went through the payment process but out of stock at 15:01 (Paris times) ... i could not be faster than 01 min !
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    Last edited by oca9i; 29th May 2022 at 14:20.

  8. #58
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    I broke my speed record this time .. but it then took around 90 seconds for the card verification code to reach my mobile phone by which time I knew I had no chance.

  9. #59
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    I broke my speed record this time .. but it then took around 90 seconds for the card verification code to reach my mobile phone by which time I knew I had no chance.
    I am dreading payment 2FA when I next order a more valuable item. (I was able to successfully buy a Jubilee bracelet this time with no 2FA).

    However, see https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post6001436. It could be that 2FA is not really a problem (despite appearances). I'd love it if anyone knowledgeable on Shopify could comment on whether or not the Shopify software does lock stock in baskets during payment processing.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I am dreading payment 2FA when I next order a more valuable item. (I was able to successfully buy a Jubilee bracelet this time with no 2FA).

    However, see https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post6001436. It could be that 2FA is not really a problem (despite appearances). I'd love it if anyone knowledgeable on Shopify could comment on whether or not the Shopify software does lock stock in baskets during payment processing.
    https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/checkout-settings

    When a customer reaches the payment method page of the checkout, their cart is checked against your store's inventory levels. If the inventory is available, then it is held for the customer while they complete the payment. If the inventory has become unavailable, then an error message appears. If a payment fails, then the hold is released until the customer reaches the payment method page again.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/checkout-settings

    When a customer reaches the payment method page of the checkout, their cart is checked against your store's inventory levels. If the inventory is available, then it is held for the customer while they complete the payment. If the inventory has become unavailable, then an error message appears. If a payment fails, then the hold is released until the customer reaches the payment method page again.
    Yes, I found the same webpage and copied it in a reply on the other thread. (Unfortunately there are now two threads discussing the same issue at the same time!)

    What I don't understand is that, taking today as an example, I successfully added the item in super-quick time, and at the point that I went into card authentification, I had had no 'out of stock' message. That came up only *after* I'd completed card authentification (and there was no indication of a problem with the authentification, ie the payment didn't fail from the card issuer's end).

    That doesn't seem to me compatible with the Shopify guidance ..

  12. #62
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/checkout-settings

    When a customer reaches the payment method page of the checkout, their cart is checked against your store's inventory levels. If the inventory is available, then it is held for the customer while they complete the payment. If the inventory has become unavailable, then an error message appears. If a payment fails, then the hold is released until the customer reaches the payment method page again.
    Many thanks for checking the docs. :-)

    Well, that confirms it: Baskets are locked for payment processing. It's good to know.

  13. #63
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    Yes, I found the same webpage and copied it in a reply on the other thread. (Unfortunately there are now two threads discussing the same issue at the same time!)
    Largely my fault about the two threads. I apologise to all. I suggest we continue in this thread.

    (Other thread here for reference: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post6001519 )

    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    What I don't understand is that, taking today as an example, I successfully added the item in super-quick time, and at the point that I went into card authentification, I had had no 'out of stock' message. That came up only *after* I'd completed card authentification (and there was no indication of a problem with the authentification, ie the payment didn't fail from the card issuer's end).

    That doesn't seem to me compatible with the Shopify guidance ..
    Other possibilities occur to me:

    (1) Your payment actually failed, despite appearances to the contrary. As I mentioned previously, this happens to me quite a lot (albeit ironically not on Timefactors so far). Sometimes it just takes multiple goes for payment to go through.

    (2) The site had perhaps reached its total sales number limit by the time your payment was authorised. Perhaps this overrides the locked baskets feature and kills off any non-completed transactions.


    ** edit -- additional **

    (3) The Shopify software isn't perfect when operating under high load.


    ** edit -- more additional **

    (4) Perhaps even the payment processing hold has a timeout.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 29th May 2022 at 16:40. Reason: Added additional possible reason

  14. #64



    I don’t know why it says that on Shopify help, although in my experience a few things on their online help and forums is outdated, they change their practices regularly.


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  15. #65
    You can use third party plugins it seems but these don’t work with our site due to the speed and quantity or transactions.

    Third party apps require a message to be sent from the site to an external server, processed, then return to the cart. This causes issues with stock being oversold due to the time lag.


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  16. #66
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    I don’t know why it says that on Shopify help, although in my experience a few things on their online help and forums is outdated, they change their practices regularly.
    I have to say that the text quoted from Shopify there makes no sense to me. For textual reference, it reads:

    "As it stands, Shopify does practice cart reservation. But, the company has a strict rule: All items must be paid for before they are held. This system ensures that any reserved item in the cart has already been purchased."
    (Bold added by me)

    In practice, there is no way that I can see to "hold" or "reserve" an item other than by paying for it successfully. The quoted text just doesn't seem to match the UX that we see in reality in the store.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    I don’t know why it says that on Shopify help, although in my experience a few things on their online help and forums is outdated, they change their practices regularly.
    Frustrating. It makes it difficult to know what they are really (or really should be) doing.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 29th May 2022 at 16:07.

  17. #67
    There isn’t a way to hold an item until paid within Shopify internally (which is what we’d need) buying that article it does seem to go in to the matter further.

    They turned off the feature as it was costing people sales, it quotes that only 20% of people that put items in a basket actually go on to buy, I know I’m guilty of this myself. The issue being the item would be taken out of stock so other people couldn’t purchase.

    This probably wouldn’t matter for ourselves as I’d assume people would carry on with the transaction, unless there was a malicious attack, but there are things we cannot customise within the Shopify system to suit our own needs.


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  18. #68
    Sorry for the terrible English but I’ve a toddler swinging off me as I type


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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I have to say that the text quoted from Shopify there makes no sense to me. For textual reference, it reads:

    "As it stands, Shopify does practice cart reservation. But, the company has a strict rule: All items must be paid for before they are held. This system ensures that any reserved item in the cart has already been purchased."
    (Bold added by me)

    In practice, there is no way that I can see to "hold" or "reserve" an item other than by paying for it successfully. The quoted text just doesn't seem to match the UX that we see in reality in the store.




    Frustrating. It makes it difficult to know what they are really (or really should be) doing.
    Whoever is responsible for drafting Shopify's guidance is in the wrong job.

    What a load of nonsense.

  20. #70
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    There isn’t a way to hold an item until paid within Shopify internally (which is what we’d need) buying that article it does seem to go in to the matter further.

    They turned off the feature as it was costing people sales, it quotes that only 20% of people that put items in a basket actually go on to buy, I know I’m guilty of this myself. The issue being the item would be taken out of stock so other people couldn’t purchase.

    This probably wouldn’t matter for ourselves as I’d assume people would carry on with the transaction, unless there was a malicious attack, but there are things we cannot customise within the Shopify system to suit our own needs.
    Ah yes, I follow you now.

    Well, reserving an item in the basket vs. reserving an item whilst payment is being processed are certainly two different things.

    I accept that reserving an item in the basket has difficulties because, as you say, only a minority go on to complete the sale. It's also very fiddly if it relies on a plugin.

    (As an aside, the Ideal World shopping channel automatically holds basket contents but only for a limited time. I seem to recall that if the basket is not checked out within 10 minutes (I think) then the basket lock is released. Interestingly, they use this technique due to very high volume sales rushes, not dissimilar to Timefactors although on a larger scale).

    All that said, it does make sense for the Shopify software to hold an item for which payment is actually being processed, as their help files claim. There are many sources online that seem to confirm what it says in the help files, i.e. that it should be holding items while payment is being processed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    Sorry for the terrible English but I’ve a toddler swinging off me as I type
    Hehe, no problem. :-)

  21. #71
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    Whoever is responsible for drafting Shopify's guidance is in the wrong job.

    What a load of nonsense.
    On the balance of probabilities and with the limited evidence available to me, I am willing to believe that Shopify does attempt to lock baskets while payment is being processing, as per the help files that you and Kingstepper found (and as per other sources on the Web that have said the same thing).

    But see also my (growing!) list of possible caveats in #63. It seems to me that there is a lot that could go wrong and it might still be time-limited in some way.

    I accept Dave's comment about trying to lock/hold/reserve stock that is in people's baskets before getting to payment. It likely has more downsides than upsides in practice.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 29th May 2022 at 17:01.

  22. #72
    It’s a minefield really and I fully understand people’s grievances and frustrations.

    We have honestly looked in to the reserving in people’s carts policy but it really doesn’t seem easily achievable or practical.

    Thankfully it seems there’s more people that have been successful, maybe due to us blocking quite a few people last time.

    I’ve read back and it might seem my initial replies were a bit arsey but they weren’t meant to be, I’m more than happy to talk through these subjects :)


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  23. #73
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    We have honestly looked in to the reserving in people’s carts policy but it really doesn’t seem easily achievable or practical.

    Thankfully it seems there’s more people that have been successful, maybe due to us blocking quite a few people last time.
    Interesting! Well done on figuring out who to block.

    I fully accept about reserving/holding items in people's baskets being impractical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    I’ve read back and it might seem my initial replies were a bit arsey but they weren’t meant to be, I’m more than happy to talk through these subjects :)
    Not arsey at all in my perception. :-) Very informative, actually.

  24. #74
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    Have a large banner at the top of the screen - saying that the first 10 applicants will automatically be sent around to the end of the queue..........

  25. #75
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Have a large banner at the top of the screen - saying that the first 10 applicants will automatically be sent around to the end of the queue..........
    Hehehehe.... shop stays open until 14:00 next Sunday as everyone waits for someone else to go first.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 2nd June 2022 at 17:10.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    On the balance of probabilities and with the limited evidence available to me, I am willing to believe that Shopify does attempt to lock baskets while payment is processing, as per the help files that you and Kingstepper found (and as per other sources on the Web that have said the same thing).

    But see also my (growing!) list of possible caveats in #63. It seems to me that there is a lot that could go wrong and it might still be time-limited in some way.

    I accept Dave's comment about trying to lock stock that is in people's baskets. It likely has more downsides than upsides in practice.
    Well, I doubt that it's the first of your suggested possibilities - that payment actually failed. I have had this happen to me a couple of buying windows previously and the message that came up was crystal clear that there had been a payment problem. Actually, as I recall the system also generated an email telling me that if I went back to my basket I could still complete the purchase by going through the payment screen again. In reality, the item would not have been available but in any event I didn't notice the email until later.

    Your second possibility is that there might be a mechanism whereby the overall 200 order limit overrides the lock on the order. Sounds difficult to do and therefore not likely here - unless Brammer can put me right on this?

    Your third suggestion is that Shopify might not be reliable at times of high demand. Given that the system is in use by much larger retailers, that also sounds doubtful, though a company that allows confusing and conflicting guidance to be out there to 'assist' traders and the public doesn't merit a lot of confidence in its standards.

    It's depressing, is it not, to be debating the ins and outs of retailing software systems rather than the features of watches on the wrist!

  27. #77
    Craftsman TF23's Avatar
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    Well done in blocking some spivs buying to resell via Ebay!

    One small thing that surprises me is that some items that have indeed appeared on Ebay are subject to a maximum of two per order. I appreciate that the most popular items are limited to one per order, but I'd have thought it would do no harm to extend that maximum to more items. Not a solution to the problem but it might help slightly at the margin.

  28. #78
    There is a shutdown plug-in we use to limit orders but it doesn’t really affect the popular items as they are manually limited by stock levels. The “hot” items of the openings sell out really quickly which are the items people have issues with being reserved in the cart.

    There were 100 Expedition, 50 White dial and then people bought Navigators, Caribbeans, Commandos, straps, etc.


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  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    Well done in blocking some spivs buying to resell via Ebay!

    One small thing that surprises me is that some items that have indeed appeared on Ebay are subject to a maximum of two per order. I appreciate that the most popular items are limited to one per order, but I'd have thought it would do no harm to extend that maximum to more items. Not a solution to the problem but it might help slightly at the margin.
    The Expedition was set at 2 per order as it doesn’t seem to suffer as badly with people flipping them but this may change and we’ll adjust.

    There were quite a few blocked in the last session that tried again today but the system blocked them. We monitor every week so things may change.


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  30. #80
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    It's depressing, is it not, to be debating the ins and outs of retailing software systems rather than the features of watches on the wrist!
    Yes, indeed.

    But then I also rather like fiddly, technical details. ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    Your second possibility is that there might be a mechanism whereby the overall 200 order limit overrides the lock on the order. Sounds difficult to do and therefore not likely here - unless Brammer can put me right on this?
    It certainly would not be difficult for Shopify (or perhaps plugin) to do this. I.e. If the total completed sales count hits the set target, it could simply ignore all further in-progress transactions, whether authorised, authorising, or not. What message appears to users at this point would be entirely up to Shopify or the plugin.

    From a software perspective that would certainly not be difficult to do.

    The alternative would be to allow authorised and/or authorising transactions to complete, which would mean potentially allowing more than the set target number of sales to be completed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    Your third suggestion is that Shopify might not be reliable at times of high demand. Given that the system is in use by much larger retailers, that also sounds doubtful
    It depends on how Shopify allocates its resources. One tenant will always have to get priority over another tenant in times of high demand.


    N.B. I am only noting possibilities. I don't claim them to be certainties.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 29th May 2022 at 17:36.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    The Expedition was set at 2 per order as it doesn’t seem to suffer as badly with people flipping them but this may change and we’ll adjust.

    There were quite a few blocked in the last session that tried again today but the system blocked them. We monitor every week so things may change.


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    Thanks for the info.

    As it happens, it was the Expedition I was trying to buy today.

    I'm sure there must be legitimate reasons for people to order two at the same time, but they can't be that frequent. Buying for a friend, perhaps the most obvious non-resale situation, isn't illegitimate but then there's no reason why the friend can't open an account and order for themselves. Personally, FWIW, I'd welcome a single item limit on the Expedition and I hope that'll be the case for the Air Ministry when the new batch goes on sale in a month's time (unless the schedule has changed).

  32. #82
    Craftsman TF23's Avatar
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    N.B. I am only noting possibilities. I don't claim them to be certainties.

    No, I realise that and thanks for your helpful suggestions!

  33. #83
    The fundamental problem is substantial excess demand for many of Eddie’s watches, combined with shipping constraints. Until those points are addressed, everything else is just tinkering. The difficulty with the path that you are on is that unless you ensure that customers can have a reasonable expectation of actually being able to complete a transaction and purchase a watch someday, you will risk alienating a sizeable set of your potential customers and having them conclude that the small likelihood of being able to get a watch just doesn’t justify the continued effort/commitment/disappointment involved in repeatedly trying and failing.

    1) I presume Eddie doesn’t want to hire additional staff, with the financial obligation that entails, for reasons we can all understand. But are there not third-party order fulfillment services that might be available on a more flexible, pay-as-you-go basis that could address concerns over fluctuations in demand and would allow you to remain open until stock was exhausted? Even if they were more expensive, your reordering cycle would speed up and you would sell more overall.

    2) The other side of the excess demand issue is pricing. One perhaps radical possibility, as an alternative to just raising prices, might be to experiment with some sort of simple auction process for a particular model. Approaches such as this would give people who absolutely had to have the watch “now” the option of paying a little more to secure it.

    3) I wonder whether, in part, you may be caught in a self-fulfilling problem. The mere fact that the shop is open for only 2-3 minutes every two weeks in and of itself causes demand that might otherwise be more spread out to be concentrated in those periods and may even raise demand overall by encouraging people to feel they need to make a purchase decision earlier rather than put it off and think about it for longer (i.e., “front-loading” demand).

  34. #84
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    I often wonder if opening in one sale for watches only and limiting it to one per customer of each model, and then the next sale opening for just straps in the next window, but then it depends on the split of watches to straps.
    My thinking behind it is that I’ve read the watches take longer to post, so you could increase he number of strap sales in the strap window.

  35. #85
    Craftsman TF23's Avatar
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    These points have been raised and discussed before, to some extent earlier in this very thread.

    It is not really true IMO to say that the main underlying problem is an excess of demand over supply. This may be true about some 'hot' models at any given time, but there are plenty of models and other items where that doesn't really apply.

    The main issue over recent times has been that there is insufficient capacity to despatch orders as received and within the period of time before the credit card authorisation expires. This could be addressed by expansion of the business in one way or another but for a number of reasons Eddie doesn't want to do this, which at the end of the day is entirely up to him. From memory, reasons include the possibility that current demand could decline, that there is insufficient secure storage capacity at his warehousing facility (aka shed), that employing further staff would introduce significant bureaucracy and general hassle and all this against the fact that he's no longer a spring chicken.
    Last edited by TF23; 31st May 2022 at 12:13.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by TF23 View Post
    and all this against the fact that he's no longer a spring chicken.
    This right here is why I'm so grateful to have purchased what I have so far. Who knows for how much longer Eddie will keep this cycle going.

  37. #87

    Cool Done - i've got it :)

    i was quick enough this time... lol

  38. #88
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    Congratulations, store appeared to be open a lot longer (5 mins rather than 1).
    Saving pennies for the news "The gilt 38mm Smiths Commander have been put in to production" I hope the dial has no typo.
    Last edited by wallyuk; 12th June 2022 at 14:12.

  39. #89
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    There is a lot of sense in david stinson's post however, people are just getting over excited and need to calm down a bit. Just as other watches, these are just wrist trinkets. There are considerably more important things to worry about. People need to come to terms with and resolve their FOMO issues. It doesn't matter if a sizeable set of potential customers can't get a watch, 200 are succeeding every time the shop opens. I have never tried to buy one of these watches. It is not how I shop. I prefer to buy at a time to suit me. This shop doesn't work this way so I don't buy there. Nobody cares that I am not in the queue, and nor should they.

    I am really pleased that Eddie is in such an excellent position, and I hope that he is making a fortune. I have previously suggested adding £100 to the cost of every watch as they are obviously being sold to cheap, but I understand that might not fit with Eddie's ethos.

    The suggestions here and elsewhere that Eddie could hire more staff, why would he want to make things more difficult for himself? The same goes for third party fulfillment services, he places his reputation in the hands of others. Auction processes seem like a great idea, but add more costs and complications. More time would be spent administering a sale than would be spent in the current process of getting that watch.

    As far as only TZ-UK members getting the chance to buy a watch, if I was Eddie, I would be much happier with the wider public getting the chance to buy.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by wallyuk View Post
    Congratulations, store appeared to be open a lot longer (5 mins rather than 1).
    Saving pennies for the news "The gilt 38mm Smiths Commander have been put in to production" I hope the dial has no typo.
    Here's a new picture of the Commander, from Joey_c001's Instagram


    Under the post: "This one won’t be on sale today… but A little bird tells me that it is now in stock and very shortly to be released ."

    Interesting...

  41. #91
    That little birdie told him wrong They’re here but it won’t be soon, possibly October.


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  42. #92
    Oh boy, I hope they release during October. That would make my birthday month even more special. Time to start saving up.

  43. #93
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiken View Post
    Here's a new picture of the Commander, from Joey_c001's Instagram


    ......................

    Interesting...
    The Commander is hitting the sweet-spot of everything. If anyone thought that the Everest was popular wait see and what will happen with the Commander.
    Last edited by abraxas; 12th June 2022 at 23:26.
    The keeper of the watch.

  44. #94
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiken View Post
    Here's a new picture of the Commander, from Joey_c001's Instagram


    Under the post: "This one won’t be on sale today… but A little bird tells me that it is now in stock and very shortly to be released ï‘€."

    Interesting...
    I’m looking forward to this one.

    Any other dial options available?


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  45. #95
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
    That little birdie told him wrong They’re here but it won’t be soon, possibly October.
    Dare I ask, will the Commander or the Mission Timer be likely to appear first? :-)



    P.S. Perhaps the Mission Timer first in September, maybe.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 13th June 2022 at 00:35.

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Dare I ask, will the Commander or the Mission Timer be likely to appear first? :-)



    P.S. Perhaps the Mission Timer first in September, maybe.
    I hope so. So many people have been waiting on the mission timer for such a long time, they will jump on it like rabid dogs. When the ashes of war from that drop settle, the Commander will hopefully drop and I will claim one for my own during that small moment of quiet.

  47. #97
    Yes the Mission Timer is planned before the Commander. Probably September.


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    Dave from Timefactors

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  48. #98
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    If only it didn't say "commander" on the dial
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  49. #99
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    If only it didn't say "commander" on the dial
    Yep, would be so much better without.

  50. #100
    The production models don’t. That’s a prototype in the shot.


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    Dave from Timefactors

    Timefactors Insta //
    Record Label // Insta // Soundcloud

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