I watched this show on BBC4 last night with childhood enthusiasm. My partner is a non believer in whether we went or not, so she grumbled throughout the programme which I thought was superb. So sad that humanity has not improved in the 50 years hence. If you are of my age group you may want to catch this, a time when smoking a huge Havana cigar at work was cool, TV was still black and white and space travel and life was full of hope!
Could be worth a watch. I am not a huge conspiracy theorist or anything but I have to agree with your partner. My issue is 50 years ago technology was pretty basic compared to current technology and yet we have never been back since 1972, that is if they went in the first place.
Did we really have the technology to safely land on the moon, take off again and then renter the Earths atmosphere 50 years ago? do we now?
watch a film called 'A funny thing happened on the way to the moon'
"So sad that humanity has not improved in the 50 years hence."
The problem is every other exploration venture is a million times harder. Mars is our easiest option and that's a logistical nightmare. Far harder compared to the moon than the moon was to Columbus 'discovering America', I'd argue.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll give this a watch. If you like a astronomical issues, John Michael Godier's YouTube channel is just awesome, with amazing guests.
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The great thing for the doubters is that you can just take a look to see the evidence. You don't have to take anyone's word for it, all you need is the right telescope.
8 days to the moon and back is an excellent documentary, I love these shows when the subject is the space race and space missions. If you lived through it and watched the moon landings as they happened shows like these resonate even more.
I've never met anyone with a credible argument as to why the moon landings were faked and how this could be achieved!
My Grandad was seven years old when the Wright Brothers carried out the first of their early, faltering powered flights but he saw men walking on the Moon on television in his 70s. In that light, it does seem very unfortunate that, since the Apollo 17 crew returned to Earth in 1972, no-one has been further into space than low Earth orbit; less than 300 miles from the surface of our planet. The early promise of space exploration and the optimism of the Space Race seem a bit hollow now. The Dan Dare stories were set in the late 1990s.Originally Posted by wildheart
I'm not one of the doubters to be very clear, but curious about what you mean here? You can't see any of the human artefacts on the Moon with a telescope from Earth.
As somebody like you who saw it all the first time round I'll have to catch this.
Cheers,
Neil.
I don't think that is possible, and if it was why are there no images of the things left behind?
Just before my Grandad died (aged 89) in 1975 I asked him what were the greatest things he had seen in his life time, he stated men on the moon and waving to Zeppelins following the Thames on their way up to bomb London!
You can’t from Earth or Hubble due to size limitations that their mirrors could capture. The objects left are well under their minimum size limits. So they would not capture the small objects left on the moon.
However, NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) can and has sent pictures back of all the landing sites and you can see the landers and buggies etc
https://skyandtelescope.org/observin...landing-sites/
Also you have to ask how did all these Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) reflectors get placed? Where we can use a laser to measure the distance between Earth and the Moon so accurately.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna...ing_experiment
I am sorry (not sorry) but anyone still thinking that the moon landing was faked are basically gullible idiots.
I’m watching ‘Mission control- the unsung heroes of Apollo’ right now, and I’ll check out 8days.
Not knocking or anything but personally I don’t think I could have a partner who didn’t believe it was true!
I think the doubter's argument that we have never been back is rather weak and misses the obvious.
Space exploration since 1972 has been focused on understanding how people can live in space for long periods.
This is obviously required to take the next steps to other planets.
Hopefully we can stop trying to kill each other long enough to get to Mars.
Well, I wasn't going to say that, but Yes...
M
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Last edited by snowman; 12th April 2022 at 17:00.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
This. Anyone that remotely believes it’s a conspiracy are utter fools. Frankly I’m surprised we have people that openly suggest it in this thread!
Exactly, it isn't possible. No Earth-based telescope can resolve objects of that size on the Moon. There are some images of the landing sites taken from Lunar orbiters though:
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/L...llo-sites.html
I can't believe there are....but just in case there are any moon landing conspiracists among us.....here's an excellent "Debunk the naysayers" page.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/h...anding-denier/
Did you read post #2?
I'll look out for that, OP, many thanks.
If not already seen, this is great too https://apolloinrealtime.org/17/ (use the slider to skip around if desired).
Veering slightly off trajectory, but I find these fascinating too:
https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ForDummies.html (The Apollo Guidance Computer)
https://github.com/chrislgarry/Apoll...er/Luminary099 The AGC lunar module code
http://klabs.org/history/apollo_11_a...eyles_2004.htm Code author, Don Eyles
Just a magnificent human achievement
There's an interesting podcast on this. First series is about Apollo 11. The second is about 13.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xttx2
I haven't listened to the second series yet but the first series was great.
Last edited by Paladin67; 13th April 2022 at 09:00.
Good god.
There are people on this forum who don't believe in the moon landings. Wow. I thought that was a tiny minority, a sub-sect of the flat earthers.
I knew they walked among us, but I didn't think they walked among us.
It’s all based on Newtonian Mechanics. Been around a while. And ICBMs where a precursor.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
That’s just the tip of the iceberg…
Not believing the moon landings happened seems to be an argument from ignorance - “I don’t understand how it was possible for us to land on the moon 60 years ago, therefore it didn’t happen”. Be more humble - there are many things we don’t understand that are true. Just because you did not personally experience it, or did not live through it at the time, does not make it any less real; use this as an opportunity to educate yourself to learn what we are capable of.
Great post with a perfectly presented point.
I've met a few doubters, but when I ask what their understanding of Mercury and Gemini is, they haven't heard of those early missions. Most of them think that we just built a Saturn V and headed off. The moon landings stood upon a staged project taking larger and larger steps until the final landing.
It's just complex geometry, massive fireworks, aeronautics and partial pressures! ;)
The problem is, nothing of the Space program since the moon landings has been so dramatic. The visuals of man walking on another world has far more impact than a big plane in space (shuttle) or a floating lab (ISS) or remote exploration (Mars rovers).
No matter how sophisticated these projects are and were, there is the false feeling amongst many in the public that we are being less adventurous and that has led to the explosion in conspiracy theories that were, until the 90s, largely the realm of a tiny minority.
The next hyper drama is a Mars visit and that has constantly been deferred because of budget and the almost unimaginable logistical difficulties.
James Webb may provide some very big news when it starts searching space for bio and tech signatures. Project starshot is another exciting plan on the horizon.
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The point is, we did go back to the moon. Several lunar landing missions were carried out after Apollo 11. There were a few lunar orbit missions prior to Apollo 11’s landing. The objectives had been reached - put a man on the moon and do it before the Russians. The fact is it was costing the American taxpayer billions upon billions of dollars, and that combined with the fuel crisis years of the 70’s. It’s easy to see why it was unsustainable to keep going back.
Was about to say the same thing, also after the first landing the interest died down as that cherry had been popped, human nature to move on and look for excitement elsewhere.
Another reason for not continuing with moon landings is everything had been achieved, no point risking lives of astronauts, spending billions of dollars for little return, the money was better spent on shuttle development, space station, long range telescopes, satellites, the list goes on..
Well said Tatters.
Cheers,
Neil.
Yep. A key development was the problems during Apollo 13 which are well known and almost resulted in loss of life. At that point Nixon saw the change in public mood towards further missions and cancelled Apollo 18 and 19, meaning only the missions that had already been heavily committed to were carried out (14-17).
To anyone doubting the landings, over 400,000 staff worked on the lunar missions - that’s a lot of people to keep quiet. Also keep in mind the launches and progress to the moon were actively tracked in orbit and beyond not just by NASA but also enthusiasts and more importantly the Soviets.
To this day the Saturn V remains I believe the most powerful vehicle ever made, only to be overtaken by Starship/Super Heavy when that eventually takes flight.
Also consider that individuals routinely live in space, right now, for many months, in orbit around the Earth. Once you have solved that, it is relatively simple to transfer to a lunar orbit. Then you just need a way to get down to the lunar surface and back up again. I am thinking here of NASA’s goal of returning to the moon in the next few years, with a human expedition. After all this time it is hard to believe it might finally happen, but technically it is not too much of a leap from where we are currently.
Mars, however, is much, much more difficult, and I will be very surprised if we ever make it out that far.
Being of a certain age, I had the privilege of being one of those working on the moon-landings when I was young, and I despair that the level of education has deteriorated so far since then that people are unaware of the technology and effort that was put into those achievements. What sort of education are they producing in schools these days?
I think it’s entirely possible to get man to Mars now, the biggest difficulty is the cost. I just can’t see any single country agreeing to allocate the funds to it.
Hopefully one day there will be a truly global approach. If the cost of these projects could be shared by 20-50 countries, for the benefit of all mankind, then we’d become a much more successful race.
I was in Aldershot in 69 and we stayed up all night (the bar was open) watching on the edge of our seats, I’ve loved and followed the space program most of my life.
Will give this a look non believers pah.
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