Reply With QuoteLooks cool but for that price I'd be buying a 5100 powered original..
I've just come across this article and haven't seen any mention of it on the forum (apologies if it has already been discussed). As a big fan of this style of watch, it has piqued my interest and may be of interest to others too. Limited numbers and a hefty price tag.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/po...rs-and-watches
Looks cool but for that price I'd be buying a 5100 powered original..
I do love this style if watch. The one to get is one of the original PD Orfina ones, but they are expensive if a good example, and being almost 50 years old, are probably a bit frail.
I am considering a Sinn 144, and although clearly a homage, something that sits uncomfortably with me, they have at least been made continuously since 1974. They are at least as honest as the very highly priced Porsche re-issue.
I could weep for what I could have got 10 years ago, if I knew then what I know now.
Dave
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Ahem…Originally Posted by kace
7750, at least until stocks ran down
D
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Do it.
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Well as per the incoming thread, a 103 may have happened….Do it.
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If I can get to Bazza’s Sinn gig in Coventry on Saturday, the 144 is what I would want to see.
D
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1974 Lemania 5100 PD1… one of my faves in the collection and not planning to let it go!
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At that price I would try to find the 5100 powered original as well. (Aeroplane minute counter, not the ball) even better if it’s the green PVD version. The NSA bracelet is a master class in comfort, although the PVD versions tend to look tatty. They came in black, green and grey PVD. As well as stainless.
The Sinn 144 is not a homage, the case and movement were both of the shelf parts bought in, lots of companies used the same case, whilst Orfina PD is the most well known, There were numerous companies that made almost identical watches some with 5100s some with 7750. They were essentially a parts watch.
I’m no expert, but I think I saw a post from Dave (sweets) that said the case wasn’t interchangeable with the Orfina PD, although it was similar.
D
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I should have added that I do have a fully restored ‘minty’ example of the original version 5100 PD (ex Dave ‘Sweets’) that pairs up very nicely with my seal grey 986 Boxster. Both very much the Poor Man’s version of the Hodinkee article, at a combined cost similar to the new watch.
The 7750 dial/movement unit won’t fit into a 5100 case, but the PD 7500 and Sinn 7500 should be interchangeable. The Heuer Pasadena & 7750 Montreal, LeJour and all the ‘looky-likeys’ of that era shared the same flat dial size and 7750 movement, so will swap easily from one case to the next.
I am corrected by an expert :)
D
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Love my Sinn 144. A birthday gift from Mrs H. Benefits from WR to 200m as well. An iconic design or style whatever the manufacturer.
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Nice looking watch, I vaguely remember seeing Porsche Design watches in the car magazines of the era and thinking they looked super cool.
I'm still a fan of the style, owning a similar looking 7750 powered Breil Manta from the 80s.
Not sure I'd pay the premium over a Sinn to have the Porsche name though...
M
Last edited by snowman; 8th April 2022 at 09:04.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Typical, I recently sold my Titanium PD
Correct. The original PD by Orfina were Valjoux 7750 based.
These had a very fragile case finish, possibly powder coated/painted, certainly not PVD. The black finish chipped off in chunks and got very tatty. Early LeJour we’re the same. I’ve never seen a 7750 Orfina with an original PVD finish, only the thicker black coating. I had one of these and regret letting it go. The later 5100 powered versions, also by Orfina, started off with the same poor case finish but later examples seem to have been PVD’d and have faired better in the wear and tear stakes. The very last of the Orfina examples that I’ve seen have been the best. It seems to me that these were DLC’d - a subtly different colour with a slight sheen. I’m making the assumption that the improved finishes were sequential but it could be that the case finish was simply different batches being outsourced with different case finishers.
Always loved the 144 in its many guises and I really must sort out the lack of one in the collection.
But the anniversary release watch does nothing for me.
That '72 Targa, however… I would happily sell my soul to own that. My absolute dream car
Just for clarification (yet again), PVD (positive vapour deposition) is a process by which substances such as DLC (diamond like carbon) are applied to a surface.
Last edited by Dave+63; 8th April 2022 at 10:53.
So much to comment on.
Firstly, the pd chrono is a true design icon, and definitely worthy of celebration in its 50th year.
The originals (the 1972 to 1978 V7750 powered ones) were PVD, but PVD is only the description of a process, not the coating applied. The early version was, as previously stated, a sort of powder coat, which flakes off.
After the conversion to 5100, The PVD process was applying a nitride coating which actually sinks into the surface of the metal. When it wears, metallic colour begins to show through on worn corners, rather than whole "flaked off" sections. Unlike Heuer (at the time), Orfina did things properly and used the nitride coating on the (NSA designed) bracelet, as well as the case.
This is only true for black, green ones remained a powder coat.
This re-issue is not really interchangable (looks wise) with the original as it has a completely different bracelet. And it is way too expensive not to consider buying an Orfina instead.
To my mind it is always better to buy original, and when it is significantly cheaper, there is even more reason to do so.
The Hodinkee article is a bit misleading, suggesting that PD moved over to IWC in the late 70s. They did for the new designs, but Orfina were producing Pds comfortably into the 1990s.
I believe the 7750 changeover to 5100s (which are a different case shape, most readily identified by the shape of the crystal surround, which is chamfer angled on the 7750 cases and bullnosed on the 5100s) happened in 1978. The 5100 was released in 1974, but only available to Omega (as the 1045) until 1978 when Lemania started selling it elsewhere. The Orfina 5100 won the Bund chronograph contract very shortly after.
The Bund ones are the ones with the triangle hand, all civil versions had the lollipop. The military also always used a 1-12 chapter ring, the tachys were used for the civilian versions (generally). Wierdly, the tachys were always labelled "1 mile" for the US and "1 km" for Europe, when in fact it makes no difference at all. You time one whatever, and the scale tells you how many you are doing an hour, regardless.
I would love to see that one I restored again, I put a lot of work into that one.
No 7750 case is interchangeable with a 5100 one, apart from anything else, the 5100 pushers are closer together (nearer 3) than the 7750 ones (which are exactly on 2 and 4 o'clock).
Dave
I would also definitely look to buy an original watch rather than the reissue.
I have this cool little PWI / Orfina watch with a Lemania 1873 movement - was also sold as a PD watch.
The coating on the watch & NSA bracelet feels really hard wearing - has no marks or wear so difficult to say if it would chip or not, but dates from around 1980 so hopefully has the more robust finish.
I love this one. I think it was around 36mm?I would also definitely look to buy an original watch rather than the reissue.
I have this cool little PWI / Orfina watch with a Lemania 1873 movement - was also sold as a PD watch.
The coating on the watch & NSA bracelet feels really hard wearing - has no marks or wear so difficult to say if it would chip or not, but dates from around 1980 so hopefully has the more robust finish.
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Guinand have the same watch but cheaper and a blue dial version on a bracelet.
I didn't know that, I worded my post badly too. What I meant was I'd buy an original, vintage watch fitted with a 5100.
Not badly worded at all. Most here would strongly agree with your 5100 suggestion.
I’m uncool, so quite like the 7750s, and they are a little easier to service long term
D
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Last edited by helidoc; 8th April 2022 at 14:22.
Totally agree. The paint finish on the Heuer bracelets was not very serviceable at all. I have two Pasadenas with very respectable bracelets but they are the exception rather than the norm.
Dave, I actually have the one you restored on my arm as I type this. Probably prompted by getting the Boxster out for the summer. I’ll take a few photos and remind myself how to post them.
I’d agree with this sentiment. I’ve been trying to get a few 5100 parts for months now with no luck so far, so would be concerned about the longer term future.
Yes, that’s the one - would really like to also add it’s bigger Porsche Design brother to my collection!
Here you go.
And some of the the company it keeps. You can see I'm a bit of a sucker for this style of chrono - this doesn't include two incoming and two restoration projects.
You have done absolutely nothing there but persuade me I was an utter chump to part with that one.
Apart from the fact that it is a fantastic display, and it looks very fitting in there.
Great stuff
ps - The PWI chronos (and they did 5100-powered ones too, as well as the smaller 1873 versions) date from the end of Orfina's tenure as a pd maker, and they were arguing about the rights of continued manufacture. Orfina continued to make the same watches (under the PWI name) and a Feuerwhr range for firefighters. So late 80s at the earliest.
Last edited by sweets; 8th April 2022 at 17:10.
2 Porsche chronos ...
Lovely. Isn't that one of the Eterna versions? IMO, the best version from Eterna with the clean black dial and solid hands. An eBay seller was selling these NOS a few years ago for a ridiculously low price. I knew should have bought some.2 Porsche chronos ...
My man-space needs more work!
D
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Nice set up.👍Here you go.
And some of the the company it keeps. You can see I'm a bit of a sucker for this style of chrono - this doesn't include two incoming and two restoration projects.
Bloody impressive! Love the paraphernalia.Here you go.
And some of the the company it keeps. You can see I'm a bit of a sucker for this style of chrono - this doesn't include two incoming and two restoration projects.
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Yes it is, in titanium, really like the clarity of it, classic simple chronograph, 7500s always seem to look OK, at worst. How low a price were they being offered, out of interest??
64287641813__FA72C646-BB6A-4930-BBD6-82404DFEC849.JPG
This is mine, 7750.
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+1
Porsche Design chronographs are overpriced in general IMO. Therefore second hand market is a good option here.
I used to have the Eterna version like above and it looks really good in real life.
Also had the Sinn 144, in fact twice and it's a perfect all rounder.
I love the PVD version of the 144 but never had one. These type of chronos work pretty well in black. (There is a debate between Heuer and Porsche Design who was first with black PVD watches.)
I currently have a Heuer 13 with the 7765 inside.
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Thanks for the positive comments on the display. It started off with the models that have the Heuer sponsorship decals and then I had a box that was almost the exact size of the original Heuer chrono boxes. Then just a bit of mission creep, probably to compensate for the fact that very few older Heuers are anything other than bare watches.
Yes, the Sinn 144 is a great watch. I had a titanium one years ago and they are brilliant. I sold it intending to get a black one instead but that hasn’t happened……yet!!
For those who like the look and don't want to spend the money, Dan Henry do a not bad shape homage (model no 1972).
Not sure how much the eBay seller was asking, but there was some sort of promotion in one of the national newspapers years ago for the Eterna PD chronograph. I think they were in the region of £600.
I couldn’t be certain but I do think it was less than £600. More like £499 from memory. It really was a ridiculously low price for a quality brand, 7750 based watch. I remember thinking that buying 10 of them would likely be better than an ISA.
That is cheap! Mind you so was £599 in the newspaper with full manufacturer warranty. The promotion I saw must have been around or before 2014 when the Eterna PD partnership came to an end.
2014/15/16 sounds about right.
The new Sinn 144 Anniversary looks pretty close
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They’re great watches….
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I’ve been looking at the early black coatings and my head is spinning! For the early Orfina PD watches, so 74/75, was this before PVD processes were developed? Is the black a powder coating?
The Heuers are later, 79 onwards. Had the black case technology moved on? Are these anything like the Titanium Nitride used now?
Confused!
Dave
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