Rolex AD Closure

[adrianw]

They are actively advertising for preowned Rolex, whether they are brokering Watchfinders surplus is unknown but a good assumption.

But they don't seem to want them, they flatly refuse to give ball park pricing over the phone without seeing the watch and the paperwork.

[100thmonkey]

But they don't seem to want them, they flatly refuse to give ball park pricing over the phone without seeing the watch and the paperwork.

To stop people using them as a price quote service. When I was in the trade you waste alot of time giving estimates for watches you haven't seen. You assume perfect and go high they moan when it needs work, you go low to factor in refurbs or repairs and they think you are a shark so having it right there is the best option and stops you wasting time on dead business. The other really annoying one was if you put price on application and everybody would ring up and ask you what the price was even though they had no intention of buying it if you don't wanna buy it don't bother asking what the price is.

[verv]

"can you send us some images and your asking price via email?"
"errrr, no I haven't picked it up yet, just want to know what you'd give me for it before I do"

[100thmonkey]

"can you send us some images and your asking price via email?"
"errrr, no I haven't picked it up yet, just want to know what you'd give me for it before I do"

Thats the one. Followed by oh well so and so has offered this!

Well FO and sell to so and so then

[adg31]

My understanding was that AD’s had to set aside a set area exclusively for Rolex using fixtures and fittings that had to be purchased from Rolex. One AD told me that this had cost them around £100k so I wonder:
A. How many Rolex watches you need to sell to pay for that before you make a profit?
B. If Rolex recompense the store for this expense when they remove AD status?


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[RAJEN]

One million watches, 1861 ADs and 40% margin. Smart people can make their own calculations and understand why Rolex dealership is valuable
I read somewhere a Rolex AD makes 3.5 million USD a year on average. This numbers would support that.

[blackal]

My understanding was that AD’s had to set aside a set area exclusively for Rolex using fixtures and fittings that had to be purchased from Rolex. One AD told me that this had cost them around £100k so I wonder:
A. How many Rolex watches you need to sell to pay for that before you make a profit?
B. If Rolex recompense the store for this expense when they remove AD status?

Several motorcycle makers also specify either exclusive dealerships or at best - separate buildings within the same plot. The cost of the additional building - down to the dealer. And margins on new motorcycles are a lot less than watches.

[RAJEN]

That depends though. Maybe being a Rolex AD means that they only sell 20 watches a year because they get so few through and they could be selling way more if they had more stock / display space for other brands. Maybe the phones are busy all the time regardless because Rolex isn’t available anyway so people are more interested in all the other brands, than they would have been otherwise. Maybe they sell more of other watches to people who want to build a relationship than they would if they had no aspirational brand for their customers to want to build a relationship towards.

I don’t think anyone knows for sure and it will probably vary store by store.

One would have to be ‘special’ to think a Rolex AD is allocated/sells 20 watches a year

[Idontgram]

One would have to be ‘special’ to think a Rolex AD is allocated/sells 20 watches a year

Well, I was exaggerating but thanks. I’ve always felt pretty special.

[Danstone]

One would have to be ‘special’ to think a Rolex AD is allocated/sells 20 watches a year

Time for, as you rather pathetically put it, some more noise from expected quarters.
Not all dealers receive the same. The independent I have referred to was quite open that he was receiving about 30 a month prior to losing AD status. He could request specific models but there was no guarantee what he would receive. Using a guess of an average of £4k per watch his gross profit would be about £1.4m. Take off staffing, commissions, rent, cost of refurbishing the Rolex area every two years, tax etc and you’ll be lucky to see half of that in net profit. It’s not a shabby amount for a smaller independent, if you can sell them all. Of course selling hasn’t been a problem for the last few years but if you go back to somewhere around 2015 things were very different, back then a couple of in demand pieces would be sold to a waitlist and everything else would be in the window for a considerable time with any duplicates in the safe, all of which had to be paid for upon delivery to the dealer.
Not saying it’s easy and that anyone would willingly give up Rolex AD status, this guy was petrified, but with a bit of work it can actually pay off.

[scooby]

Several motorcycle makers also specify either exclusive dealerships or at best - separate buildings within the same plot. The cost of the additional building - down to the dealer. And margins on new motorcycles are a lot less than watches.

Totaly true but that has come as a by product from car manufactures
Back in the day manufactures would jump through hoops for you to sell there product but things have changed
Having a franchise weather it is watch bike or car etc makes you liable to there changes either in showroom design or your agreed territory
I dont really see the figures put about that rolex require a 300k refit
Ive done a few showroom refits in my time and nothing would get close to that considering how small the showrooms are unless that would incur relocation and new lease deposit etc


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[blackal]

Totaly true but that has come as a by product from car manufactures
Back in the day manufactures would jump through hoops for you to sell there product but things have changed
Having a franchise weather it is watch bike or car etc makes you liable to there changes either in showroom design or your agreed territory
I dont really see the figures put about that rolex require a 300k refit
Ive done a few showroom refits in my time and nothing would get close to that considering how small the showrooms are unless that would incur relocation and new lease deposit etc

Matters not - where it came from.

[GOAT]

Do they still make 37% on Rolex?
Think that’s what it used to be anyway…

[Buster73]

B. If Rolex recompense the store for this expense when they remove AD status?

A nice round figure I’d imagine.

0
Zero
Not a penny.

[Hood]

Thats the one. Followed by oh well so and so has offered this!

Well FO and sell to so and so then

Not really a strange thing to say in a possible negotiation as it allows you to increase your offer if it is worth your while.
If they say nothing you are none the wiser.
Normal negotiation tactic I would say and used it myself when selling a car this week
The dealer on the phone then went £500 more than the offer I had and bought the car.

[adg31]

Totaly true but that has come as a by product from car manufactures
Back in the day manufactures would jump through hoops for you to sell there product but things have changed
Having a franchise weather it is watch bike or car etc makes you liable to there changes either in showroom design or your agreed territory
I dont really see the figures put about that rolex require a 300k refit
Ive done a few showroom refits in my time and nothing would get close to that considering how small the showrooms are unless that would incur relocation and new lease deposit etc


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I was told by an AD that they had to buy everything from Rolex - despite near identical products being available far cheaper on the open market.
If the margins are anything like on their watches I’d guess it soon adds up for a captive audience who can’t shop around.


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[chrisparker]

My understanding was that AD’s had to set aside a set area exclusively for Rolex using fixtures and fittings that had to be purchased from Rolex. One AD told me that this had cost them around £100k so I wonder:
A. How many Rolex watches you need to sell to pay for that before you make a profit?
B. If Rolex recompense the store for this expense when they remove AD status?

There would have certainly been a contract between Rolex UK Ltd and their AD network. AD's have been told to invest in interior fit out, to Rolex specs, which they would do on the guarantee that they'd be stocking the brand for X amount of months or years. I'm sure they'll have covered the costs in sales.

Sales have been made, despite the lack of products in shop windows. Rolex UK's balance sheet, and grey dealers with plenty of stock shows that.

[100thmonkey]

Not really a strange thing to say in a possible negotiation as it allows you to increase your offer if it is worth your while.
If they say nothing you are none the wiser.
Normal negotiation tactic I would say and used it myself when selling a car this week
The dealer on the phone then went £500 more than the offer I had and bought the car.

If you make a fair offer first time then you dont have to compromise

[theancientmariner]

Well the dealer I mentioned earlier has made it work. Rolex was profitable for them but nowhere near what many would imagine. When a company demands that half of your shop needs to be a dedicated Rolex area, fitted out at great cost to their standards, they have to cut back on other items that they sell. To then have to pay the best part of £300k to refurbish that area less than two years later takes a whole chunk of any profit away before you even start selling. All worth it if there is a never ending supply of watches, but there isn’t. Now you also have to factor in the purchasing by the AD of the full range to put on display that they’re not allowed to sell. We’re still in a bubble, although it’s rapidly deflating. It was only a couple of years ago that most Rolex would sit in the window for months or longer awaiting a buyer and it’s very possible that we’ll be seeing that again, fashions change.

Certainly a valid argument but you would have to think that if selling Rolex was such a chore and a drain on profits then any of these dealers could have dropped Rolex at their leisure (assuming non binding contracts of course). Yet, they all chose to stay as Rolex AD's and as I mentioned earlier, the AD in Middlesbrough, Goldsmiths, closed their store when they lost their Rolex AD status. If you're the only store in a town then you can probably make it work but when you're one of many, it's a completely different story.

[murkeywaters]

So many people just see Rolex Rolex Rolex when it comes to AD's and how much money its worth to the shop, yes they make money on Rolex watches themselves but the whole attraction of Rolex draws customers into your shop who then buy many more items of jewellery or other watches.

Losing that status will surely have a huge impact on footfall and compound the loses of Rolex sales.

Would be really interesting if a shop counted how many people come through its door with Omega, Tudor etc signage over a week and also the same shop with Rolex signage for a week..

[Snowdon]

I can think of several shops that have closed on losing Rolex AD status

Salloways
Pykes
Upchurch
Pressleys
Various Ernest Jones and Leslie Davis
Various goldsmiths
Wilkins

There are probably others

High street retailing is a very high cost base business. Rent, rates, staff, kitting out the shop, refreshing the shop, training, sickness, mat/pat leave etc etc

[Boss13]

So already half of them are WOS who are buying preowned Rolex. The market is about to have the main UK AD selling new and used. You seriously think they will offer used at 3x retail over new at RRP!?!?

Used should logically be cheaper than new. The game has been fun but in a challenging financially challenged new dawn logic will prevail.

There is a huge difference between the volume of used Rolex on the Watchfinder website compared to their actual holdings. They only trickle out 10-20% of the desirables but be assured they are there and they will always have 1-2 on the website.

Is that right? Hear this a lot but when I looked this morning they didn’t have any 126610 124060 or 126600 listed and this has been this way for a while now.

If they have so many in stock surely they will list one or two of these popular models as you say?

[bobc]

Heard a while ago that George Hewitt the Rolex AD for Grimsby has lost its status. A family business that had been selling Rolex since 1909. One of the earliest AD's?

[blackal]

Plenty of diametrically-opposite viewpoints - each with an element of understanding……..

I think some of the dealers sticking with Rolex may have a fear of the unknown, to make the break - not knowing what their future turnover might be.

They can be playing with several employees’/households’ income based on a ‘hunch’

Play safe, pay the bills and hope that Rolex production increases slightly - but not enough to kill residuals…….

It’s a conundrum

[Puntsdog]

Heard a while ago that George Hewitt the Rolex AD for Grimsby has lost its status. A family business that had been selling Rolex since 1909. One of the earliest AD's?

Is this definite? I passed yesterday and whilst the display is as barren as most other ADs it didn't appear that they were no longer stockists.

I am not sure how much of an end to the business this might be for John as he did say to me a while back that there wasn't anybody willing to inherit the business after his retirement.

[100thmonkey]

Is that right? Hear this a lot but when I looked this morning they didn’t have any 126610 124060 or 126600 listed and this has been this way for a while now.

If they have so many in stock surely they will list one or two of these popular models as you say?

Think the current emphasis is on getting the sticky stock moving, some of which is very old! The Ploprof they have in Presale has been presale since Feb. Its sat at head office ready to retail along with at least 2 x 124060

[markrlondon]

I am not sure how much of an end to the business this might be for John as he did say to me a while back that there wasn't anybody willing to inherit the business after his retirement.

That's so sad. Inheriting a (hopefully profitable) business that has potential opportunities to expand online seems like a literal gift to me. But not everyone feels the same I guess.

[bobc]

Is this definite? I passed yesterday and whilst the display is as barren as most other ADs it didn't appear that they were no longer stockists.

I am not sure how much of an end to the business this might be for John as he did say to me a while back that there wasn't anybody willing to inherit the business after his retirement.

Only going on what I've been told by 2 good customers. So secondhand info but I believe them.

[Kingstepper]

Only going on what I've been told by 2 good customers. So secondhand info but I believe them.

They should update their website https://www.ghewitt.co.uk/rolex

[David_D]

I can think of several shops that have closed on losing Rolex AD status

Salloways
Pykes
Upchurch
Pressleys
Various Ernest Jones and Leslie Davis
Various goldsmiths
Wilkins

There are probably others

Not sure what happened to Fraser Hart. Think some branches were sold off but don’t think what’s left of FH is now an AD.

[boring_sandwich]

Beaverbrooks group are now a Rolex AD.

[dejjl]

Not sure why, but the only place to buy new Rolex on the Isle of Wight, Benzies in Cowes, is no longer an AD. Seems a peculiar decision given the influx of wealth to the Island in recent years. The property market has been transformed (particularly post-Covid) and houses are harder to come by than ever before. Many tenants are at risk of being forced to leave the Island as landlords cash in on high prices. Strange times.

[markrlondon]

Not sure why, but the only place to buy new Rolex on the Isle of Wight, Benzies in Cowes, is no longer an AD. Seems a peculiar decision given the influx of wealth to the Island in recent years. The property market has been transformed (particularly post-Covid) and houses are harder to come by than ever before. Many tenants are at risk of being forced to leave the Island as landlords cash in on high prices. Strange times.

Yes, that does seem like an odd strategy. You'd think they want to tap into that increasingly wealthy market.

In similar news, TFL is cutting a large number of bus routes throughout London to save money (and slow public transit, make what remains more crowded, and often increase revenue by forcing more fares to potentially be taken for the same trip).

Specifically in my area of London, a major 'town centre', all of the direct bus routes into central London are being cut. It can't be due to lack of usage. Worse still, the area is due to have over 10,000 new head of population added to it due to redevelopment of brown field and retail sites. Needless to say, these will be anti-car developments meaning that buses will be even more important and even busier than they are now. Just when the major in-out bus routes are being cut. Ah... yes... joined up planning.

[superthrust]

Is that right? Hear this a lot but when I looked this morning they didn’t have any 126610 124060 or 126600 listed and this has been this way for a while now.

If they have so many in stock surely they will list one or two of these popular models as you say?

WF consider themselves key to the preowned market.

They withhold stock until they feel the market is ready to pay the price they want and if they get caught holding the bag they just play around with their set prices until someone comes along.

They just unloaded 8 black bay 58 blues on Saturday at 2750 each, they then upped that price to 3250 and then reduced again to 2900 just to see what fish they could catch.

None of those were listed on their presale beforehand either and they play these tricks consistently.

You can sort their listing be listing date, any slow movers that have potential get taken off and recirculated at a higher price to give an appearance of demand. You can also tell this by the unload they usually have midweek of some 100 to 200 watches at once, these are almost exclusively recirculated listing that are now deemed to be in demand. Their actual new stock gets trickled in when available and this is the stuff you see on presale. That presale section barely moves week to week.

I spend far too much time watching their site, they do love to play games and I'm not judging them either. But when you play, you win some and you lose some and I've gotten my pound of flesh from em more than once!

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Yes, that does seem like an odd strategy. You'd think they want to tap into that increasingly wealthy market.

Harrogate lost it's AD recently.

[markrlondon]

Harrogate lost it's AD recently.

Bizarre.

Or perhaps the UK market is actually dying.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Bizarre.

Or perhaps the UK market is actually dying.

They are killing it all by themselves.

[Kingstepper]

Bizarre.

Or perhaps the UK market is actually dying.

They have no problem selling all they are producing (for now anyway) so why do they need so many ADs?

[markrlondon]

They have no problem selling all they are producing (for now anyway) so why do they need so many ADs?

Because tomorrow is not today.

Recruiting new, reliable, trustworthy ADs will never be as efficient or profitable in the longer run as keeping them on.

[M1011]

Because tomorrow is not today.

Recruiting new, reliable, trustworthy ADs will never be as efficient or profitable in the longer run as keeping them on.

It may not be fashionable to say this, but is is possible they know what they are doing over at Rolex HQ

[Kingstepper]

It may not be fashionable to say this, but is is possible they know what they are doing over at Rolex HQ

Quite. Might not suit some on here but their business and been fairly successful so far.

[markrlondon]

It may not be fashionable to say this, but is is possible they know what they are doing over at Rolex HQ

Yes, of course, it is possible.

But nor is it guaranteed. As the investment adverts are required to warn us, historical and current performance is not necessarily a guide to the future performance.

Shutting down one's only retail outlet in a high wealth area is, no matter what one's historical and present success, a not-necessarily wise or sustainable model to maintain longer success in an ever-changing market.

[Gareth-W]

Beaverbrooks group are now a Rolex AD.

You mean via their part ownership of "Whittles" in Preston?

[wileeeeeey]

You mean via their part ownership of "Whittles" in Preston?

Via Lyons

[Gareth-W]

Via Lyons

Or "Loupe" even?

The MK branch of Lyons lost Rolex some time ago but is also (as will Croydon) to re-open branded as "Loupe" too.....unclear if both will have Rolex at the moment.

[wileeeeeey]

Or "Loupe" even?

The MK branch of Lyons lost Rolex some time ago but is also (as will Croydon) to re-open branded as "Loupe" too.....unclear if both will have Rolex at the moment.

I was in there about 3 or 4 weeks ago while passing and half the (temporary) store is Rolex and branded as Lyons. Never bought anything from them and not the AD I use, so I’m not familiar with their set up.

They’re in a temporary store right now while the main store is being refurbed — seem to be reopening as Loupe later on this week back in the same store they were in before.

Will be interesting to see how they develop as an AD over the next few years.

[simonj]

So if you’re on ‘the list’ with your favourite local AD, with good purchase history from them and the occasional Rolex thrown your way, what happens if they lose their Rolex status? Do you have to go elsewhere and start at the back of the queue or can you be transferred elsewhere?

I’ve heard of dealers being aware of ‘their’ clients picking up Rolex elsewhere, so is there some kind of central system?

[boring_sandwich]

I’ve heard of dealers being aware of ‘their’ clients picking up Rolex elsewhere, so is there some kind of central system?

WoS group have a centralised system with purchase history, I am not sure if it includes register of interest.

[simonj]

WoS group have a centralised system with purchase history, I am not sure if it includes register of interest.

Ah, I’m with Goldsmiths so one would hope they can see the extensive purchase history with them then. Maybe I’ll pop into a branch at some point to see if they can see what I’m registered for.

I get the feeling things will start freeing up later in the year and more stuff might become available.

[AP1]

So if you’re on ‘the list’ with your favourite local AD, with good purchase history from them and the occasional Rolex thrown your way, what happens if they lose their Rolex status? Do you have to go elsewhere and start at the back of the queue or can you be transferred elsewhere?

I’ve heard of dealers being aware of ‘their’ clients picking up Rolex elsewhere, so is there some kind of central system?

I don’t think there is a centralised system where Rolex hold client details obtained through the AD network. Wouldn’t there a GDPR issue if that was the case?

In my case I had to start again twice. I had very modest history with two small independent ADs that have both now lost their Rolex status and, unsurprisingly neither said they were passing clients to any other dealers. I’m not too bothered to be honest as there’s not much I want and I’m hardly one of the high rollers who will be offered the more interesting or highly priced grey market watches.