My partner works for the NHS in a small admin office with 3 other girls, they’ve been told they’re not allowed to have the radio on in the background anymore as they don’t have a license. Has something changed recently? Seems a bit odd, looking online it seems you can buy a license for the workplace but I don’t understand why you can’t have 4 people listen to the radio while they work without it being an issue!
Originally Posted by toastie
Been the law for a while - bonkers, I know!
What about if one of them had music streaming on their PC? I wonder if that might be sufficient? BUT - their legal department will be very risk-averse so I wouldn't expect them to bother about it.
only way around it is to have 4 radios on. That would work in a Car garage workshop.
Ridiculous I know, but could they have daily play lists to listen to or would that still fall foul of the licence issue? Not sure if it radio or the music that they need a licence for?
The music. They need a PRS licence for what is in effect public performance.
If the music is being played in a workplace (such that more than one individual can privately hear it) then a PRS licence is needed.
See https://www.gov.uk/licence-to-play-l...recorded-music
If everyone listens privately and individually to their own streaming music or radio on their own headphones/buds then a licence isn't needed.
If it was being played for all to hear then it would still need a PRS licence.
Last edited by markrlondon; 31st March 2022 at 09:05.
Then most of the clowns on the train and tube should be questioned and fined!
RIAC
I'm sure the PRS would love to bill them if it could find them. ;-)
Different scenario though.
I’ve just been having a read through what I can find online and it says that even a taxi driver who turns the radio off when he collects a fare would still need a licence. I’m a mobile electrician and seems like even I would need one as my van is my workplace and people can hear my radio say at lights and traffic queues etc! Bloody crazy, how is any of it enforceable for a start.
It's crazy when taken to the extremes. It's enforceable (and is actively enforced!) mainly by inspection, intimidation and informers.
The reason I know a bit about this is because I once looked after an office/factory floor where we needed a PRS licence for the factory radio.
I thought that it was in principle fair that rights holders should receive compensation for their works being listened to but some of the circumstances under which licences needed to be purchased beggared belief.
How much was the license?
It was in the late 90s but I recall it was in the region of £100 per annum (for a small factory and office).
Look on the PRS website (linked from the gov.uk website I linked above) for current tariffs which apply to different sorts of businesses.
Last edited by markrlondon; 31st March 2022 at 09:33.
Just been trying to do that but without filling out forms and submitting details of the business ( I can’t even find a category they fit in to ) and subscribing to things which I shouldn’t really be doing as it’s not my workplace you can’t even get a quote, or a rough ball park figure.
Just had a look at the tarifs (From a link at the top of their page) :
https://3egrg52h4do72flc0a1td2xc-wpe...March-2022.pdf
£56.13
"his tariff applies to the use of background music in factories, offices and garages where four or fewer staff (or Full Time Equivalents)are employed and the music is not audible to customers or other visitors to the premises."
Before I found that - I registered an enquiry for my own company - they will contact me within 24hrs. Oh well!
Well, the tariffs are all listed in PDFs on this page: https://pplprs.co.uk/business/other/
You just need to work out which one(s) apply to the business in question. Afaics it'll be PPL and/or 'PRS for Music' tariffs that will apply. You just need to work out which of the many. ;-)
There's the thing though. It's not your problem. It's up to the management of the business or site to sort out. It will cost them money. If they don't want to pay then it will be a subject for negotiation between employees and employer.
As I mentioned above, if the employer doesn't mind people having headphone/earbuds in/on then that's possibly a solution. As far as I know (but consult the PRS to be sure!), privately listening to your own source of music such that no one else hears it (probably) won't need a licence.
One thing I'm not certain of is whether it is possible to licence just one location (e.g. one office or room) within a larger business or site, or it is necessary to licence the whole site or whole business.
Good point.
A girl from the Licenser has just phoned me about my 'enquiry' so I admitted that I had entered the details prior to discovering the 'tariffs' tab and that it was just curiosity.
Very pleasant, ending with the obligatory "is there anything else I can help you with, today?"
No - apparently she cannot help me with my electricity bill............ (but laughed anyway).
See https://pplprs.co.uk/business/other/ for their tariffs.
Crazy, like it says 10 people can listen to the same station on 10 separate radios and that’s fine but all 10 people listen to 1 radio for practicality and energy reasons and that’s a broadcast. Or have is miss understood?
Very interesting about the car radio.
See what I wrote above about using earbuds/headphones to listen to music individually and privately being different to shared radio/streaming/whatever being listened to by all.
It is the shared, out loud aspect that makes it public (even if the public are just staff) that matters here.
Thanks Mark, all seems crazy to me, I get that broadcasting and making profit from listening to others copyrighted music or using music to attract customers etc needs to be paid for and can totally be on board but some of these scenarios are completely nuts imho
Agreed - the radio stations pay for that already. But - the authority treats office/workplace listening as "re-transmission to a wider audience than intended in the original license"
Yes, indeed. My reaction was the same when I first found out about it.
It is crazy in practice. It's yet another business overhead that comes from operating in a developed economy with lots of rules, regulations, and embedded bureaucratic rent seekers. :-/
Obviously (or so we are expected to infer) all radios are correctly listened to by just one person at a time! ;-)
The PRS have been sending out letters to businesses to try to get them to buy licenses for ages. I remember getting such a letter about 20 years ago.
Just told them I didn't have a radio.
Of course in a government office they are going to be much stricter with the rules.
Cheers,
Neil.
Cattery I used, played the radio for the cats... had a visit from a PRS inspector.
Yup, she needed a licence.
So the cats had to do without Ken Bruce et al
There were reports, after the first lockdown ended, of employers (including NHS premises) getting visits from license enforcement teams in the next county to where I am.
Caused a lot of email traffic where I work to get people to switch radios off.
This has been going on for years, first i heard about this was the late 90s…my old boss had a heated row with one of their enforcers.
We heard they were in the area again and we reasoned that we rarely have customers in the workshop…not only that we stream the music we've purchased from Spotify so we’re paying directly what we’re listening to anyway.
Customers or not makes no difference.
From their site….Broadly speaking, this includes any presentation of music outside of a domestic setting. For example, it will include using music in the following ways as part of your business or organisation (for the benefit of customers and/or employees): playing recorded music via any device including the radio; showing TV broadcasts or other audio-visual content containing music; or putting on live performances of music.
Its a contained unit, music is at a level it cant be heard outside, i have no employees and no customers where its played. Don’t see why id need one?
Not sure if there’s just you, was thinking of previous post where there was at least you and your boss.
Ah sorry…see what you mean. Yes he had to pay, whether he he did or not I'm unsure.
Ever thought about actually joining a discussion rather than posting 'one-line' challenges - as is your want?
They’re fortunate that they didn’t have a visit from the RSPCA
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Not a challenge, thought there was a misunderstanding of the rules. Sorry if it didn’t meet your standards.
I look after ours for work and it's around £6k a year. Total bargain for the almost daily complaints I get about the radio.
Ouch!I look after ours for work and it's around £6k a year. Total bargain for the almost daily complaints I get about the radio.
How many people and/or locations is that, may I ask? Is it a factory/office scenario?
Yes it's factory/office although the radio isn't played in the offices. Mainly the shop floor / canteen / workshop for up to 350 people which I'll be reducing next time around as it seems a lot of staff are reluctant to come back to work.
Very interesting, thanks. That's quite a price although I suppose small potatoes on a per-employee annualised basis.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote