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Thread: Omega x Swatch

  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Loads of brands have a cheaper ďentry levelĒ option. Montblanc, S T Dupont have been doing it for years.
    I suppose it depends how low the cost is of the "entry" brand/item is.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by TROYBOY79 View Post
    I suppose it depends how low the cost is of the "entry" brand/item is.
    Exactly, these Moonswatches as about 4% the price of a real one, that’s not what I’d call entry level, that’s a gift.

    If Montblanc started doing plastic pens for £1 I’m sure they’d sell like hot cakes.
    Last edited by Montello; 4th April 2022 at 08:23.

  3. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If Montblanc started doing plastic pens for £1 Iím sure theyíd sell like hot cakes.
    And if they did this then I don't believe that they'd harm sales of the expensive stuff. Extras, not instead of.

  4. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    And if they did this then I don't believe that they'd harm sales of the expensive stuff. Extras, not instead of.
    Yes Iím sure you are correct. But Iíd say itís a short term gain, if you persisted with the tactic youíd reduce the long term value of a luxury brand.

  5. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Yes Iím sure you are correct. But Iíd say itís a short term gain, if you persisted with the tactic youíd reduce the long term value of a luxury brand.
    I don't know. I think it can go both ways. For me, it would endear me to the brand and would not put me off buying their expensive stuff.

    Broadly speaking, it works well for Seiko/Grand Seiko/Lorus/Pulsar/Alba/J.Springs/etc.

  6. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by TROYBOY79 View Post
    I suppose it depends how low the cost is of the "entry" brand/item is.
    I think the new line ST DuPont pen is about £200 they usually sell at £3-400 for their cheapest ones. They do the same with lighters that start at about £100 but the real classic ones are between £5-700 so about 7x the ďentry levelĒ ones.

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I don't know. I think it can go both ways. For me, it would endear me to the brand and would not put me off buying their expensive stuff.

    Broadly speaking, it works well for Seiko/Grand Seiko/Lorus/Pulsar/Alba/J.Springs/etc.
    With luxury brands itís a very long game on the build but can be very short on the way down Ö

    You are looking at this from a perspective of someone who already has a view on the brand.

    But if you have new generations of buyers who grow up seeing a brand on a cheap plastic item itís going to be difficult for them to see that brand as a luxury brand in 20 years time.

  8. #658
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    This is a good, no nonsense review: https://youtu.be/35fDCvlmR_g

  9. #659
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    But if you have new generations of buyers who grow up seeing a brand on a cheap plastic item itís going to be difficult for them to see that brand as a luxury brand in 20 years time.
    Maybe, or maybe not. I am not convinced that such an 'inflexible' view (for want of better words) is an inevitability. It seems to me to depend on cultural assumptions and, if nothing else, cultures are in severe flux. And that flux is caused, in large part, by reactionary forces in response to perceptions of the status quo. I.e. People increasingly seem to like what is new, different, disruptive, dismissive of convention, merely because it is new, different, disruptive, etc. Whether or not that trend will itself persist I cannot predict.

    We'll see. If we live long enough. :-)

  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Maybe, or maybe not. I am not convinced that such an 'inflexible' view (for want of better words) is an inevitability. It seems to me to depend on cultural assumptions and, if nothing else, cultures are in severe flux. And that flux is caused, in large part, by reactionary forces in response to perceptions of the status quo. I.e. People increasingly seem to like what is new, different, disruptive, dismissive of convention, merely because it is new, different, disruptive, etc. Whether or not that trend will itself persist I cannot predict.

    We'll see. If we live long enough. :-)
    All of that is true but luxury brands are a unique category really when you think of consumerism.

    If you think about all of the elite luxury brands they are all highly protective of their brands space and identity and never seek to devalue or confuse the market as to their position.

  11. #661
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If you think about all of the elite luxury brands they are all highly protective of their brands space and identity and never seek to devalue or confuse the market as to their position.
    I totally agree. But my point is that what is or is not "devalu[ing] or confus[ing] the market" is not necessarily fixed in stone. It is itself dependent on social and cultural constructs. What we might take for granted today is a ripe target for disruption and dismissal tomorrow (or later today).

    Shibboleths are being torn down (both literally and metaphorically). Luxury goods are not immune to the winds of this changing fortune.

    But, as I say, the best I can say is that we'll see. The proof is in the pudding and it's not going to be served up in full for 20-50 years.

  12. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I totally agree. But my point is that what is or is not "devalu[ing] or confus[ing] the market" is not necessarily fixed in stone. It is itself dependent on social and cultural constructs. What we might take for granted today is a ripe target for disruption and dismissal tomorrow (or later today).

    Shibboleths are being torn down (both literally and metaphorically). Luxury goods are not immune to the winds of this changing fortune.

    But, as I say, the best I can say is that we'll see. The proof is in the pudding and it's not going to be served up in full for 20-50 years.
    Well time will be the judge of this ... I'd put my money on Rolex and Patek still being positioned as they are today in 20 years from now ... others who are more experimental with their brand maybe in a different space ... but that may be their strategy. The premium space may not be the most profitable and so shareholders demands will prevail.

  13. #663
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    Swatch own Omega, Breguet, Blancpain etc, not the other way round. I'm sure they know what they're doing long term.

  14. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Loads of brands have a cheaper ďentry levelĒ option. Montblanc, S T Dupont have been doing it for years.
    Certainly works for Rolex, with the entry level Oyster Perpetual range.😀

  15. #665
    they are nice to look at, but I agree with the above in terms of devaluing the brand.

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    they are nice to look at, but I agree with the above in terms of devaluing the brand.
    I think it raises awareness of the brand more than devaluing it. Remember that young people have no memory of the moon landings. I'm far from young but am still too young to have actually seen it live. My generation was however exposed to the mythology of the moon landings growing up, knew all about Saturn V rockets and saw all the footage. It was still a big event in the public consciousness.

    Not so for a new generation, the moon landings are ancient history and there's no reason they would be saving up for a moon watch, any more than we'd collect souvenirs from the victorian era, or for that matter Elvis Presley. Before long Omega will run out of consumers who care about one of their most important models. Unless of course, they are provided with a toy model of the moon watch and encouraged to do some research on the subject. So it's a shrewd long term move from Omega, and the advertising campaign is even paid for by the consumers themselves.

    I can't see a follow up in the works though, there a very few watches within the Swatch group that would work this way, much as I might enjoy a bio-ceramic 50 Fathoms without the water resistance. It would work well for the more iconic models from other brands like the Royal Oak, or obviously Rolex, but I can't see that happening. Though I can imagine Chinese fakers doing something along those lines.

  17. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    I think it raises awareness of the brand more than devaluing it.
    I once attended a conference where this guy was giving a branding presentation.

    He was making a point between awareness and equity ... and that just creating awareness of your brand does not necessarily create equity in the mind of the target.

    He gave a good example; he said if he stood on the lectern and dropped his trousers he would be pretty certain that we'd all remember him, probably for ever, but not necessarily for the right reasons ...

  18. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    they are nice to look at, but I agree with the above in terms of devaluing the brand.
    I have already seen comments with collectors wanting this and now changing their Ďgrailí from a watch to the speedy pro so it is already having the desired effect on some folk. I think itís genius. Gives people a taste at a very affordable price and sucks them in. I have an AT and will likely be buying the speedy pro next year. It has not changed my view of the omega brand other than itís great to see them reaching a wider audience.

  19. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuno1 View Post
    I have already seen comments with collectors wanting this and now changing their Ďgrailí from a watch to the speedy pro so it is already having the desired effect on some folk. I think itís genius. Gives people a taste at a very affordable price and sucks them in. I have an AT and will likely be buying the speedy pro next year. It has not changed my view of the omega brand other than itís great to see them reaching a wider audience.
    I like Omega, had a AT for many years and plan to get a Seamaster with the 1/4 orange bezel at some point in the near(ish) future. The issue I think is (non-WIS) people see a £200 omega and then think why would I spend £10k on another. Same situation with Seiko and Grand Seiko to some extent.

  20. #670
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    .......

    He gave a good example; he said if he stood on the lectern and dropped his trousers he would be pretty certain that we'd all remember him, probably for ever, but not necessarily for the right reasons ...
    So what you are saying is that Omega have just dropped their pants. As it happens I agree. It reminds me when Cartier brought out those goldplated silver Must. They are just about recovering now from that fiasco. Once those pants are down it's a hard job to get them back up.

  21. #671
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    Swatch AD's

    Not many, if any Swatch AD's near me, but the step son has just landed in San Fransisco for a mini break so I sent him a link to the San Fran AD hoping he will remember its my birthday

  22. #672
    If 0.1% of the people who buy a Moonswatch go on to want and get the real thing then Omega has done very nicely.

    People have used the phrase "gateway drug" but this is closer to a free sample or preview.

  23. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    If 0.1% of the people who buy a Moonswatch go on to want and get the real thing then Omega has done very nicely.

    People have used the phrase "gateway drug" but this is closer to a free sample or preview.
    I wonder whether they will be disappointed? So many are getting a buzz from the Moonswatch they might just feel underwhelmed and overcharged with the real McCoy.

  24. #674
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    Just passed through London and visited the Carnaby St store. No need to go in, as I could see from the outside that the display case used to show the tray off was empty and I remember someone mentioning that as the 'key' to whether they are in stock.

    I noticed 2 or 3 people loitering around outside and looking in from time to time. Wouldn't have noticed it at all if I didn't know all the story around these. With the 1000s of profit to be made, it pays to wait outside a shop all day, pretty dull though.

  25. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    If 0.1% of the people who buy a Moonswatch go on to want and get the real thing then Omega has done very nicely.

    People have used the phrase "gateway drug" but this is closer to a free sample or preview.
    Not to mention the many more people who have no interest in paying thousands of pounds for a watch but will be willing to pay £200 Its a win win for the Swatch company.

  26. #676
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    Pretty sure main reason behind this was to revive the Swatch brand that has been flagging because of smart watches.

  27. #677
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    With the debate on whether it devalues or raises omegas brand profile I think it actually raises it. I was discussing this with a bunch of friends: some of us are watch enthusiasts some of us arenít. What is very clear is that we all want one.

    And even then those of us that are watch enthusiasts would still look to get a proper omega moonwatch at some point.

  28. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoleBoy View Post
    ...Wouldn't have noticed it at all if I didn't know all the story around these. With the 1000s of profit to be made, it pays to wait outside a shop all day, pretty dull though.
    Are there really 1000s to be made though? How many of these watches supposedly selling at that level are actually being sold?

    Only the insanely wealthy wouldn't miss that kind of money for something, really, worth about £50-£100 surely?

    The RRP is a not unreasonable price for something a bit different and maybe double that if you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want one right here, right now, but £1000s?

    I can't see it myself...

    Expect the internet to break, though, when they go on sale online!

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  29. #679
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    I think what a lot of the devalue the brand comments above miss is the SWATCH branding on the watch.

    it's a swatch, you buy in a swatch shop.

    Yes it has omega branding but it's not an omega. it's an swatch x omega

    It's not a cut price omega, it's an expensive swatch.

    Fair enough if the lovely ambience of an omega boutique is suddenly overrun by people who don't know the difference between a 2500 movement and an 8500.....but it's not.

    I have grads who work for me who don't see the point in wearing a watch, or at best don't see the point in a non-smart watch. 3 of the 4 of them have had a chat with me about this watch. That's the impact and it's universally positive.

    EDIT : I've said it before but i've got a speedie, other omegas, cheap seikos, expensive seikos and a few g shocks. it massively appeals to me and i can't wait to get one.
    Last edited by Lazydonkey; 5th April 2022 at 12:09.

  30. #680
    I’ve messaged a few people on EBay for “best price” as I figure if I could get one for £400-ish it would be worth it for me.


    I have the idea it would be decent value, as being in the NW it would mean using my day off plus the cost at around £70 on the train to London, I’ll probably take my lad with me so that’s another £70, plus lunch or whatever and I’m into it for probably £400 anyway (including purchase price). Then I could travel there and find no stock……


    Why not cut out the middleman?! Hence the £400 budget.

    Anyway, I’ve learned that most people (who replied) would actually sell for about £600…… so I don’t think there’s many making “Brewsters” from it unless they snagged multiple watches.


    I think I’ll wait now but I did think about it.
    Last edited by RJM25R; 5th April 2022 at 13:52.

  31. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Iíve messaged a few people on EBay for ďbest priceĒ as I figure if I could get one for £400-ish it would be worth it for me.


    I have the idea it would be decent value, as being in the NW it would mean using my day off plus the cost at around £70 on the train to London, Iíll probably take my lad with me so thatís another £70, plus lunch or whatever and Iím into it for probably £400 anyway (including purchase price). Then I could travel there and find no stockÖÖ


    Why not cut out the middleman?! Hence the £400 budget.

    Anyway, Iíve learned that most people (who replied) would actually sell for about £600ÖÖ so I donít think thereís many making ďBrewstersĒ from it unless they snagged multiple watches.


    I think Iíll wait now but I did think about it.
    Online order will remove your hefty travel fees, so your patience will be rewarded!

  32. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    Online order will remove your hefty travel fees, so your patience will be rewarded!
    Assuming the online sales thing happens soon, but we will see!

  33. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Assuming the online sales thing happens soon, but we will see!
    They said it would be online in a few months I would just wait and save your money

  34. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Assuming the online sales thing happens soon, but we will see!
    Some people are saying this Friday. Others are saying June/July.

  35. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Only the insanely wealthy wouldn't miss that kind of money for something, really, worth about £50-£100 surely?
    How can we judge it's only worth £50-£100 though? What would we judge so called "luxury" watches to be worth in reality by the same token? A lot of their worth is thin air (marketing).

    It may seem a lot for a "plastic" watch (if that's what it is) but other Swatch Chronographs are selling for £100-£150 and the MoonSwatch looks infinitely nicer than those.

    I'd be happy to pay £200 for one of these based on how good it looks alone.

  36. #686
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    Iíd heard online sales would start a few weeks after launch. Given the demand theyíve created theyíd be mad to delay it


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  37. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Some people are saying this Friday. Others are saying June/July.
    Some people said last Friday!

  38. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazydonkey View Post
    I think what a lot of the devalue the brand comments above miss is the SWATCH branding on the watch.

    it's a swatch, you buy in a swatch shop.

    Yes it has omega branding but it's not an omega. it's an swatch x omega
    Actually if you look at the dial it is not a swatch x omega it is an Omega x Swatch. The Omega branding leads and is more prominent and so is the Speedmaster mark; the Swatch logo is minor in comparison to both. Similar prominence on the strap too ...

    I'd describe it as an Omega watch. Manufactured and retailed by Swatch.

    Would make a really interesting case study to understand the strategy and the relative sizes of the Swatch / Omega businesses ... still think this is a good move for Omega; but does reposition the brand a bit less luxury and more available ... and that may be their drive to maximise profits.
    Last edited by Montello; 5th April 2022 at 18:11.

  39. #689
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    Interestingly, the crystal has an S on the inside instead of an Ω


  40. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Actually if you look at the dial it is not a swatch x omega it is an Omega x Swatch. The Omega branding leads and is more prominent and so is the Speedmaster mark; the Swatch logo is minor in comparison to both. Similar prominence on the strap too ...

    I'd describe it as an Omega watch. Manufactured and retailed by Swatch.
    Im going to say that its most definitely, first and foremost, a swatch.

    Its disposable, colourful and plastic. And, despite the omega branding bumping the price up, its fairly cheap.

    It most certainly uses the same design as a certain omega watch but, as you say, its not made by omega.

    Its a little bit like when a clothes designer lends their design and name to a mainstream sportswear brand.

    I dont think anyone who buys one of these should ever think they own an actual Omega - and certainly not a moonwatch - hence "moonSWATCH". Even the swatch website clearly differentiates between the two.

    Id wear one at list price though - no problem.

  41. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbongo View Post
    Im going to say that its most definitely, first and foremost, a swatch.

    Its disposable, colourful and plastic. And, despite the omega branding bumping the price up, its fairly cheap.

    It most certainly uses the same design as a certain omega watch but, as you say, its not made by omega.

    Its a little bit like when a clothes designer lends their design and name to a mainstream sportswear brand.

    I dont think anyone who buys one of these should ever think they own an actual Omega - and certainly not a moonwatch - hence "moonSWATCH". Even the swatch website clearly differentiates between the two.

    Id wear one at list price though - no problem.
    If you put the moonswatch under the nose of 10 random members of the public and asked them to tell you the brand of the watch Iíd bet the majority would say Omega.

  42. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If you put the moonswatch under the nose of 10 random members of the public and asked them to tell you the brand of the watch Iíd bet the majority would say Omega.
    I think you're splitting hairs. It's a watch manufactured by The Swatch Group Ltd, using brand names owned by them.

    An Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch is manufactured by The Swatch Group Ltd, as is the MoonSwatch.

  43. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If you put the moonswatch under the nose of 10 random members of the public and asked them to tell you the brand of the watch Iíd bet the majority would say Omega.
    Well, I DID say they "shouldnt" think they owned an actual Omega - not that they wouldnt think that.

    At the end of the day its a swatch - made by swatch, in a swatch factory, with swatch components - with a case that looks like a design made famous by Omega.

    If it fails under warranty you'll send it off to swatch for replacement. Omega wont touch it - because its not an Omega - the swatch site is very careful not to say it is.

  44. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    I think you're splitting hairs. It's a watch manufactured by The Swatch Group Ltd, using brand names owned by them.

    An Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch is manufactured by The Swatch Group Ltd, as is the MoonSwatch.
    So, a longines is an omega with a different badge? Like a skoda is a volkswagen?

    My planet ocean is no breguet - the moonSWATCH is no omega. It just dresses up as one...

    Again though - people should just decide if they want one or not - up to them. Id have one as a bit of fun.

    Time will tell what effect it will have, if any, on either brand long term...

  45. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Umbongo View Post
    So, a longines is an omega with a different badge? Like a skoda is a volkswagen?

    My planet ocean is no breguet - the moonSWATCH is no omega. It just dresses up as one...
    Not quite, Swatch Group Ltd. is a company that manufactures watches, who also own many brand names, and manufacture watches under those different brand names. Each brand has its own market segment, and target customers (with some overlap), and each brand has its own vision and values, as set by the parent company. So no, a Longines isn't an Omega, they're both Swatch Group Ltd products with different badges Ė which reflect the aims, ambitions, vision and values of the brand name it displays.

    A Skoda isn't a Volkswagen, nor is it a Seat, or Audi even though a; Golf, Octavia, Leon, and A3 are mechanically the same thing, they're aimed at different audiences and carefully designed to reflect the brands they represent.

    Imagine for a minute that brand names were outlawed and manufacturers had to simply display their company name on the products they made. We may value products slightly different for a while, but there would be still no mistaking that a Volkswagen AG Aventador was a different animal to Volkswagen AG Fabia. And unlikely to confuse a Swatch Group Ltd. Quartz Dinsauritos to a Swatch Group Ltd. Classique Tourbillon Extra-Plat Anniversaire 5365 in Rose Gold.

  46. #696
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    I think this discussion just goes to show how you can potentially confuse the market by transplanting branding across different products.

  47. #697
    The whole thing reminds me of something that happened a few years back, was always motorbike mad and still am. I worked in a bike garage at the time briefly to help a friend out. One day this guy comes in with a at the time 30 odd year old bike, less than a thousand miles on the clock. He'd bought it from that garage brand new, barely rode it for the first year even. Rode it from his house to the bike garage once a year for maybe the first three years for it's annual service. After that it was trailered down once a year, every year for it's annual service.
    Said guy, quite elderly now decides after it getting trailered down again, maybe he should let it go. The wasn't in bad condition really, couple of dings in the tank from being sat in his garage for years, bit of corrosion but nothing really. Think he got about £1500 for it.

    The parts guy buys it from the shop, spruces it up a little aesthetically, makes sure it's fit for purpose and safe etc and sticks it on eBay. Think it got up to a few grand, guy from Germany I think it was messages him and offers him something nuts like £6-8k for it sight unseen, done deal. Comes on the ferry with a van and picks it up three days later beaming smile ear to ear, off he pops. We're all pretty much flabbergasted, general manager just looks around at us all and says 'It's worth whatever someone wants to pay for it' and walks off.
    To this day, I can't work out if I agree with him or not.

  48. #698
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    But the point is that this release is a Swatch (in the sense of the Swatch watches of yore, a monoblock plastic cased quartz watch with relatively cheap materials, and unmaintainable, or disposable).
    But it genuinely has Omega and Speedmaster on the dial.
    The Fabia has got the Auto Union interlocked rings all over it.
    That's the genius. Those tiny inky names printed on the dial persuade everyone that it is a bargain, and that they must have one.

    When in fact it is demonstrably just a Swatch, using the normal Swatch chrono movement. The type of thing that repeatedly sells on Ebay for £30.
    I've come to the conclusion that this bubble is really emperor's new clothes.
    These little things are pretty much worthless.
    When I first considered these, I looked at the Speedie similarity, and I thought Omega was leaving money on the table, I thought they could easily sell boatloads of them for £500, let alone £200. And in limited batches, I still believe they would. But longer term, when these are commonly available in all outlets? I now think the price is about right. And despite initial desire, I won't be bothering. I can get a much better made watch for very similar money. A watch I can maintain and use for ages. Why waste money on these plastic throwaways, when something much more sustainable is hardly any more money. The Wolbrook mecha-quartz chronos for instance.

  49. #699
    It maybe a cheap plastic swatch with some omega branding on it but one thing is for certain, Itís a far more desirable watch at present than the actual moonwatch which are available in ADís today!

  50. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    It maybe a cheap plastic swatch with some omega branding on it but one thing is for certain, Itís a far more desirable watch at present than the actual moonwatch which are available in ADís today!
    Desirable, or accessible?

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