My 24 year old stepson who lives in Brighton is moving into a new flat he has a full time permanent job and we are having to provide the garentee for it and it’s been the same on every flat he’s looked at, since when has this become normal for someone of his age.
There will have been a lot of landlords stung by Covid-related non-payments by tenants who have no assets worth chasing.
Landlords will look towards a guarantor who does have assets behind them to protect their income and property condition.
Dependant on the type of rental property and target market - If I was a landlord, I might want the same.
True that, required it once or twice previously, still no guarantee but it's something, provides a little extra of peace of mind that the tenant will honour their side of the bargain.Originally Posted by blackal
Though tbh I likely wouldn't with a tenant of that age with a full time permanent job, good prior references.
Last edited by Passenger; 16th March 2022 at 10:50.
I think it will depend on his income and how long he's been in the job, and also what the job is.
If he was earning £50k with PWC and had been there for two years, it probably wouldn't be a requirement. If he was earning £25k with Fred's Software Startup and has been there 6 months, it's a different proposition.
I've asked for guarantors a few times. If one can't be provided, that in itself is an indication that I might be better looking elsewher for a tenant.
Me too. If someone cannot find anyone they know that believes they can pay the rent then that’s a red flag.
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Are there not regulations preventing you requiring a guarantor unless the applicant fails the affordability checking?
Be careful with any tenants in common type clauses otherwise you are underwriting flatmates and potential renters in the same property where there is a shared expenses.
I completely understand where you are coming from, but finding someone who believes you can pay your rent is different to finding someone who will provide an assurance to pay any arrears if you DON'T pay - for whatever reason. It is a bit of a one-sided deal with no benefit to the guarantor - the sort of thing that parents may do for their children in their early years when leaving the family home.
I am sure there are a large number of parents who simply could not afford to pay an extra £??? rent on top of their existing commitments, even though they would like to help their children by becoming their guarantors. It doesn't necessarily mean the renter is financially unreliable though, it may simply be that the tenants financial support network (family?) is not as strong as another tenants may be.
I have never missed a mortgage/rent/loan payment in my entire life, but there is no way that my parents would EVER act as a guarantor for me, despite them being very financially secure, we just don't have that type of relationship and never have.
Its a tricky one. As a landlord you obviously just want someone who is reliable, who looks after the property and pays their rent on time.
OP - apologies for the thread diversion.
To 'sort of' answer your question, my niece has just been turned down for several rental flats based purely on her/her partners age, as they were just seen as 'too young and therefore unreliable'. She wasn't even given the option to provide a guarantor. Such is the rental market at the moment it seems.
Last edited by Maysie; 16th March 2022 at 15:09.
It doesn't appear so - this is a useful reference, and also specifies deposit regulations.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ent-guarantors
That says a guarantor can be requested if the can’t prove they can afford the rent. If they can I don’t believe you are permitted to request a guarantor.
The points you have made were what we were thinking it’s unbelievable the rents these people want for the shitholes he’s been looking at and garentee we pay the money if he loses his job I suppose he’s partly to blame for wanting to live somewhere so expensive
No mention of what 'proves' the ability though. I think while an argument ensues - the flat has gone.
[edit] Shelter will have done their homework, I'm sure.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...rivate_renters
Last edited by blackal; 16th March 2022 at 15:28.
I believe a landlord can request a guarantor for any tenant as they see fit. Irrespective of age, status or financial position. The more protection they have the better.
For certain landlord rent insurance polices, should the tenant not meet the affordability criteria before the policy will be issued the insurance co will ask for a guarantor to cover any short fall.
I agree completely.
Competition for decent flats is intense, particularly in popular areas like Brighton! Plenty of awful rental places around too though. Its a nice place to be for a few years, so I hope you get it sorted.
I have been a tenant whilst also a landlord at the same time, so have experienced both sides of the coin. The rental sector really is a bit of a broken system which does not seem fit for purpose any longer, or even balanced between landlord and tenant despite some changes to the legislation.
Following a run of awful unreliable tenant following awful unreliable tenant, I finally decided to sell my rental property and give up as a landlord, of course that was when we found we had the most reliable tenant we had ever had - who we had given notice to vacate.
This was at the same time as my own bathroom ceiling (in my rental flat) had collapsed into the bath with the electric wiring (all still live) sitting in the bath while my Landlord refused to do anything about it, or the toadstools growing out of the ceiling either.
When I moved to London I would not have been able to find a guarantor. Luckily the world wasn't quite as ghoulish a couple of decades ago.
Landlord: I am entitled to make a fortune because I take risks
Tennant: I don't have rich parents
Landlord: I don't take risks
The landlord owns the property. He can let it to whoever he chooses. If he feels that the prospective tenant may not be able to pay (or may be unreliable) it makes sense to ask for a guarantor.
Put yourself in the landlords shoes. He has a property, and needs a relaible tenant - otherwise he may be forced to default on his own mortgage. The prospective tenant is young, relatively new to employment and on a salary that appears tight relative to the rent. It's self protection to ask for a guarantor. The option is to simply rent it to someone else in a stronger position. At least by asking for a guarantor it gives the young person a chance.
Now if that person can't find anyone in the world who knows them and is prepared to back them, why should the landlord (a complete stranger) back them himself? That's effectively what he's doing.
It seems from what we have seen as you say they want to have their cake and eat it my stepson has just started a new job but it is with a reputable company the last flat he had in Brighton looked as though it had previously been a crack den before he moved in but there is a lot of competition, I don’t think it’s fair that our necks are on the line for his rent as anybody can lose a job and it would have a massive impact on us and we will still have to sump up a massive deposit anyway probably the reason so many young people still live at home
You're not wrong the market is distorted and dysfunctional. I hope your lad secures a decent place to live.
That page you linked says ...
"You may not need a guarantor if you can pass a credit check or show proof of income."
I don't believe the landlord can require a guarantor if you can prove you can afford the rent ... the point is moot of course as they can find plenty of other reasons not to rent the prospect the property.
I am a landlord and I have guarantors on some properties; when setting up a new tenancy recently I asked the agent to put a guarantor in place as an extra safety net but I'm sure the agent said it wasn't possible as the tenant had passed all the necessary affordability checks ... I got the impression there was some sort of rule / reg on the matter ... I will check.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ho...g-a-guarantor/
Pretty sure there is nothing to prevent in principle. Just need to make sure it's not "unfair".
If you're subscribed, more here:
https://landlordlaw.co.uk/member_article/guarantees/
Last edited by David_D; 16th March 2022 at 20:10.
I’m not a member of that. I have logged a query with the NRLA and will report back.
Perhaps letting agents try and dissuade it as it may impact their client numbers/revenue.
NRLA helpline says there are no regs preventing the request for a guarantor under any circumstances. I will bring this up with my agent in due course.
I'd be changing agents if they've told you porkies to avoid extra work and thereby exposed you to tenant default.
I was pretty sure that was the case, but thanks for confirming. I think what your agent is doing is taking the least line of resistance knowing that if it turns to **** it's you who will foot the bill.
He's YOUR son for goodness sake! If you don't want to put your neck on the line for him, why should the landlord - a complete stranger?
I can’t fully recall the conversation, however the plan if to terminate them anyway and manage the properties myself this year anyway as I suspect that will actually be easier. I’m working through the NRLA courses which are pretty good.
This is a good resource; worth the subscription cost:
https://landlordlaw.co.uk/
I don’t think we should have to the fact that he’s an adult has had flats before and got a full time job should be enough, are you a landlord by any chance ?
Yes. So let's get this right. He's your son, you know far more about him, his morals, his abilities, his work ethic, his spending habits and his job than I ever can as a landlord. You don't want to take a risk on him being able to fulfil his obbligations, but you think I should. I don't know him, I've just met him and I have no obligations (financial or personal) towards him.
I genuinely don't understand your arguement. Can you explain it to me?
Some (perhaps most?) people don't have parents who can afford to pay their rent.
Why would you want to use a discriminatory tool to choose who gets to live in a particular area?
Why should a parent put their financial future at risk to help a landlord maximise their profit. It's not about behaviour of their kids. Covid, Brexit, fuel, war and a load of other things affect lives and jobs and I won't be transferring risk from people earning money for nothing to me.
It's absolutely your right to refuse to act as guarantor. But the landlord also has the right to choose a tenant who he believes will look after his property and pay the rent, and also the right to draw his own conclusions from the fact that the prospective tenant can't find anyone prepared to back them.
Let me turn your statement around, why should a landlord put his financial future at risk, just so you don't have to concern yourself with the behaviour and fate of your own offspring? It's not about maximising profit. It's about survival for many, and it's about getting paid for what you're providing.
From seeing the dossholes my stepson has had to rent because there is a massive shortage of decent accommodation his previous landlords were doing very well I’m glad that you are happy to participate and make money out of a very unfair system were only people who have wealthy parents can ever move out of home
You see you're conflating two issues there and justifying your refusal to take a risk on your own son with what you perceive to be the poor quality of accomodation available. Are you saying that if the property was better, you would act as guarantor, and if so, why? The risk is just the same. If not, why mention it?
If your son isn't able to rent a property from someone like me, what's the alternative? Clearly not to rely on you.
As an aside, how do you know how well his previous landlords were doing? Did they show you their mortgage statements or any of their other bills?
I see you ignored my point about this being a discriminatory practice. Most people do not have parents that can guarantee their kids' risk. Not all kids have parents.
This limits opportunity and is bad for society.
Landlords that actively discriminate against people based on their background are leeches. No other word for them. It's illegal in most other walks of life and only allowed here as so many MPs are at the same trough.
Landlords are in business and they have to take the rough with the smooth.
Anyway, getting a little too political for G&D, sorry.
Landlords always seem to end up being painted the villain.
I’m a good landlord provide property at below market rents for reliable tenants and do all maintenance and compliance requirements.
I’m working towards exiting the market because of this, which will be one less good landlord operating in the market.
Good landlords are getting fed up and leaving the market. Vilifying landlords will just lead to a worse market for renters as good landlords will throw the towel in.
Why only good landlords?
Maybe some bad ones will quit too but my observation is that people who couldn’t care about their tenants probably don’t care if they are perceived poorly.
It’s more likely the decent people that are off put by the bad rep landlords get.
It's guarantor & guarantee
Sorry - that is just bonkers.
What about House insurance, Car insurance, Life insurance?
Are the underwriters unreasonable about loading premiums to reflect young/old drivers when each individual may be unproven?
House insurance - should they take it on the chin for the risk of a property in a crime-ravaged area, and make premiums the same as out in the country?
When you declare that you are a lifelong smoker of 60/day - should they just shrug their shoulders and say "no worries - you'll be right" ?
But the landlord cannot seek protective measures??
Pity my stepson couldn’t find someone like you to rent a house off but it certainly hasn’t been his or our experience with renting a couple of years ago he was without heating for nearly six months the skinflint landlord kept getting the boiler bodged which would last a few days then a fortnight again no heating all the engineers said the boiler was nackerd eventually after six months it was replaced after he threatened to take them to court certainly not what you expect these days
Nobody is saying landlords shouldn't have protections. I am suggesting that they shouldn't be able to use discriminatory ones that will penalise disadvantaged groups.
I am also saying that nobody owes landlords a living. It's an investment that can go down as well as up. It deserves no special treatment, but of course gets lots.
Correct. Common sense. If you take the time and go to the expense of doing it properly, you are at a disadvantage to those who don't. Friend had a couple of years helping an acquintance with a small letting agency. The tales from some of the tenants looking for a move were frightening. Illegally dangerous properties let with no concern for tenants.
knackered
Part of the problem are the unintended consequences of rules introduced to protect tenants. Once a tenant is in the property, they can stay for months without paying rent and eviction is a costly and time-consuming business. Greater risk for landlords who then seek to mitigate that risk.
If I was to steal a £10 bottle of wine from Tesco, plod would be called and I could end up with a criminal record. Steal the use of a property for 6 months: civil matter - and defaulting tenants don't tend to leave forwarding addresses.
I think it used to be possible to take a larger deposit by way of security. If that's gone, asking for a guarantee makes more sense. It doesn't have to be from a parent; it can be given by anyone.
The problem we have in the UK is not having built enough houses/dwellings for the last 20/30 years. Neither renting nor owning will get any cheaper until that situation is addressed.
There are poor operators in every market and ultimately the customers have a choice.
The rental market is tough for tenants and rental property is in short supply and as such rents are going up and opportunist landlords who don’t do things properly are getting away with it …
Ask yourself why this is able to happen, answer is being a landlord is a pretty average proposition these days mainly as a result of political change so this is pretty much what people have voted for, plus people being negative about landlords in general is driving people out and making the market tougher.
I'm trying to understand your logic but am falling short. To be very clear, if by "discriminatory practice" you mean discriminating in favour of someone who is likely to look after the property and pay their rent, then I'm absolutely guilty of that. In certain circumstances, asking for a guarantor might be part of that process. If you think that is in some way "wrong", there's not really any basis for further discussion on the matter.
You're right it is getting too political and it's also getting offensive. I rent out property of a very good standard and attend to all repairs in a timely manner. What I ask in return is that the property is looked after reasonably and rent paid. It's a business transaction like any other, and to use the word "leech" to describe someone who simply expects both parties to abide by the agreement they've entered into is pretty disgraceful.
Those of us who are/have been landlords sympathise and agree with your point of view.. those who aren't / haven't been will never understand or appreciate the difficulties of finding good tenants and as always the nasty landlord whos rolling in money will be vilified as scum/leeches etc
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I'm sure you're both very nice to your upper middle class tenants with the right family backgrounds.
People from single parent families would just wreck your precious investment.
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