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Thread: Two Speedmasters, should I?

  1. #1
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Two Speedmasters, should I?

    I would quite like some pre-purchase perspective.

    Iíve had a 1861 Speedy Pro for 4 years, and until recently never bonded as I found the fit with the stock bracelet wasnít right.

    I evaluated a new 3861, and thought it was brilliant, mostly the new bracelet, but also a new graceful curve to the lugs really improved the fit. Iím also pretty taken with the movement upgrades.

    Iíve now liberated an Aerospace and Damasko, so I can go ahead with the purchase, if I wish. The thing is, after 4 years of very occasional wear, I put the 1861 on a Di Modell Rallye strap, and the watch is just transformed. Two of the Rolex are on an extended service holiday at RSC, and Iíve worn the Speedy a lot, and we have definitely bonded!

    The 3861 is definitely a better watch, but I like my 1861 now itís on leather.

    So...

    Is it a good idea to have two Speedies, or is it a bit pointless?

    In terms of other watches, and opportunity cost, I am 2.5 years into an expression of interest for a Rolex GMT, and I could get the call next week, or never. Part of me thinks I ought to have a 7750 chrono, but the only thing that might interest me is a Sinn 144, and it slightly bothers me itís not a particularly original design (Orfina).

    Should I liberate the 1861 for a 3861, or should I try and hang onto it?

    Decisions....

    Thanks

    Dave


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  2. #2
    Craftsman r.dawson's Avatar
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    2 similar speedys seems a bit overkill for me.

    What else you got?

  3. #3
    Master
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    I have both the 1861 and 3861 models. Got a brand new 1861in late December 2021 and the 3861 in the first week of January 2022. Never planned on having two examples of essentially the same watch and half expected to move one of them on, but that hasn’t happened yet. The 3861 has become something of a daily wearer and gained less than a second a day during the first month of ownership. Only you will see the subtle differences between the two and others may doubt your sanity for buying what seems to be the same watch.

    Sod the ridiculous waiting lists for Rolex and enjoy watches that are readily attainable (if you have the funds). Let me know if you want to know where to go for a potential discount on the 3861.

  4. #4
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r.dawson View Post
    2 similar speedys seems a bit overkill for me.

    What else you got?
    Too many!!

    Other than a box of Seiko divers

    Role 16610, 16570, 14270
    B&R03-92, Sinn U1
    Dornbluth 99.1M on order, Nomos Tangente, vintage IWC Cal 89

    D


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  5. #5
    Craftsman r.dawson's Avatar
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    Nice collection, I look forward to the day I order my dornbluth

    If I was in your shoes I think I'd pass on the new speedy and go for a zenith.

  6. #6
    Master
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    Iíd get the new Speedy and keep them both for a while. Youíll know which one you prefer as subtle differences mean a lot. I would then only keep one as they are very similar.

  7. #7
    Master Saxon007's Avatar
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    Like you, I found the Speedy on a bracelet less than satisfying but transformed when on a strap. So far I've fought off the urge to go see the 3861. I can tell you from experience it's a slippery slope you are considering.

    Last edited by Saxon007; 15th March 2022 at 17:31. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Go for the Sinn 144 or Porsche Design. You can have a genuine PD with a 7750 as thatís whatís in the later models made by Eterna.

    So 7750 movement and original Porsche Design.

    As for having two of the same watch, who cares?



  9. #9
    Master
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    Whenever I've doubled up on a watch, I've regretted it. I have a 1861 and whilst the 3861 is objectively a much better watch I just couldn't justify the extra expense to get a 3861 at the time. I take your point about bracelet and slightly trimmer case on the 3861 but they really are too similar aesthetically and I certainly wouldn't have both in a collection. If it's part of a larger collection you may not even appreciate the improved accuracy either if you're only wearing it for a few days at a time then letting it die (although the +10secs per day of my 1861 is a little annoying).

    Someone mentioned a Zenith. I'd much rather have a 38mm el Primero and an 1861 than a 1861 and a 3861.

    Selling the 1861 then getting a 3861 makes more sense than having both but sense rarely comes in to this hobby.

  10. #10
    Craftsman Idontgram's Avatar
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    The 3861 is lovely, but I think that if youíve had to work to develop a fondness for the 1861, thereís something fundamentally not right between you and a speedie pro.

    It could all be to do with the bracelet as you say but I do wonder sometimes whether iconic watches get a bit of a pass because weíre MEANT to like them.

    Personally, Iíd look at selling the 1861 which you have a troubled relationship with and liberating more funds for more choice. Like others, Iíd be looking at a zenith.

  11. #11
    Master
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    I did similar with my subs, buying the 40 then the 41, with a plan to put one on rubber. Iíve worn the 41 about 3 times in a year so it didnít really work out for me, so I suspect you might find similar.

    With the speedieís you might lose financially with this approach.

    Why not try a grey dealer with an X day return policy to see how you get on?

  12. #12
    I much prefer the 2021 update, but still have my Speedy Tuesday to scratch the older model/case itch if I need to. I wouldn't say having both models is overkill - plenty of worse things to do.
    It's just a matter of time...

  13. #13
    I was beginning to wonder if the speedy had fallen out of favour? Seems to be a lot of them listed on SC at the moment, watchfinder wouldn't even quote on mine.

    The watch has an amazing history and incredibly versatile in terms of straps it suits. I just always felt a little underwhelmed during my ownership - mines currently with a local dealer on consignment sale, you're spoiled for choice here at the moment, and it seems the dealers have a fair few in stock, fair enough its never been a hard watch to get hold of - I've just never seen so many on the second hand market.

  14. #14
    I have the older version speedie always thought it more comfortable on a watch strap as opposed to the bracelet in fact the first thing I did was remove the bracelet. Got mine on a nice tropic strap which I think suits it well.

    Personally owning one I woudnt bother buying the newer version and regarding the Sinn have you considered looking at the Guinand Nordmeer chronograph? Currently sold out but I m sure will be back in stock soon.

  15. #15
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    Sounds like you've grown fond of the one you have, so I'd keep that and forget about the new one. There will always be a new Speedmaster around the corner, I wouldn't go chasing that rabbit.

  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    I personally wouldnít have two speedmasters, based on what you have said I would sell the 1861 and buy a 3861.

    At the same time I can see why people want both models.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    If I had a Speedmaster Pro, I'd put it on an 1171/633 bracelet, but I like rattly vintage bracelets.

  18. #18
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    Sounds like you've grown fond of the one you have, so I'd keep that and forget about the new one. There will always be a new Speedmaster around the corner, I wouldn't go chasing that rabbit.
    Iím starting to think that is wise advice.

    Thanks for the perspectives so far.

    Dave


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  19. #19
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    The 1861 Speedy Pro is a great watch - once you've removed the stock bracelet!

    I'd encourage you to try a Forstner or Uncle Seiko bracelet instead. The fit and comfort are much better than the OEM bracelet.

    I also wear mine on a Di Modell Rallye sometimes - it's a classic look.
    Last edited by Rocket Man; 16th March 2022 at 11:13.

  20. #20
    Craftsman
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    Seems a little unnecessary if youíve found such a big change with the strap. Only youíll be aware of the movement so pretty much down to how much that means to you, in my opinion. I think there are way too many amazing watches out there to have two of the same (pretty much!)


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  21. #21
    Are there any pics of the different lug profiles? Intrigued to see how they've changed it. (Iirc the new one is 0.5mm shorter lug to lug because they curve in more and so hug the wrist better.)

  22. #22
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
    The 1861 Speedy Pro is a great watch - once you've removed the stock bracelet!.
    I actually prefer the old bracelet to the new one. My wrists are big enough to cope with the proud endlinks. Its reassuringly chunky and luckily, much like the bb58, I've managed to get a perfect fit with it. I'm sure I'd feel differently if it didn't fit as well though.

  23. #23
    I donít have a problem with having more than one Speedy!


  24. #24
    I still regret selling my 1861 without ever trying it on a NATO! The stock bracelet also made it wear a little too large for me. The 3861 is an obvious upgrade and seems to solve the bracelet issue. However, I like the fact that the 1861 is basically the same 861 movement that was used in the actual ‘moon watch’. For me, that alone, would still make it my preference. If that doesn’t matter to you you could sell the 1861 and go for the newer model. Although if you’re now happy with the 1861, maybe just hold onto it for now.
    Last edited by Mr Tetley; 16th March 2022 at 16:56.

  25. #25
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Are there any pics of the different lug profiles? Intrigued to see how they've changed it. (Iirc the new one is 0.5mm shorter lug to lug because they curve in more and so hug the wrist better.)



    D


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  26. #26
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    I donít have a problem with having more than one Speedy!

    I suddenly feel better about the idea of both!

    D


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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post



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    Ohh never realised those differences. The 3861 does have a nicer profile.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post



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    Thanks, I'm assuming the new one is on top? Does it also have a lower profile crystal as well?

  29. #29
    Craftsman Ascalon's Avatar
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    +1 for the Uncle Seiko 1171.

    It is very solid, yet flexible and comfortable.
    I have one with 735 end links on with an NOS Omega clasp on an SMP Mark II.
    It looks great.

  30. #30
    Craftsman kinyik's Avatar
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    I would get the 3861 and sell the 1861. They just look too similar from afar. If I ever got a speedmaster it would either be a nice tritium 145.0022 or a 3861. The 1861ís bracelet just doesnít sit well on my wrist.


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  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kinyik View Post
    I would get the 3861 and sell the 1861. They just look too similar from afar. If I ever got a speedmaster it would either be a nice tritium 145.0022 or a 3861. The 1861ís bracelet just doesnít sit well on my wrist.
    ^^ this. Try and get one secondhand, let someone else take the hit on resale. After that initial drop depreciation is minimal.

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