Reply With QuoteWorrying possibility of authenticators being careless.Originally Posted by odyseus10
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The second one has a 100% feedback count of 29, with only a few transaction in the last 6 months. The first buyer has 100% feedback count of 1645.
Worrying possibility of authenticators being careless.
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Well I just had a closer look at the eBay authentication page and it says this..
If a buyer wants to return an authenticated item, your return policy as stated in the listing will apply.
So in my case, it says no returns….
However, in the FAQ it says this -
Buyers can return an item if the seller accepts returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within the seller’s return window, or in the unlikely event the item is ultimately found to be not as described.
So basically the Authentication centre and or Buyer can still knacker a watch and then send it back as not being as described??
The complete opposite of what the eBay customer service rep told me ie I only get the watch sent back to me, as long it is in the same condition as it left the Authentication centre.
I think all in all (and this is probably pretty obvious) stay well clear if eBay unless you accept the one or two trouble makers
Unless they’ve changed their T&Cs:
If a buyer states no returns, then it will be no returns.
The not as described point is null and void once it is authenticated. At that point the authenticity team has verified that it is as described. Hence no further liability to sellers.
If the authenticity team says it’s not as described they will send it back to the seller if that is what the seller wants.
I’ve used it a few times and it worked well.
The only issue preventing me from using it again is postage to the authenticity centre as just cannot find a suitable method that insures correctly.
I found it to work as described above, a buyer approached me about a return claiming the watch had stopped working but after I pointed out it was working when authenticated it wasn't my problem. I suspect it was buyers remorse rather than a real fault.
Last year I bought a Tudor Chrono that passed muster with eBay authenticity team, but on arrival the steel bracelet was a dreadful poor quality fake.
The seller had stated returns not accepted in the listing & wasn't interested in a return for refund, but after a call to eBay to say part of the package was counterfeit I was immediately issued
a return label back to the authenticator and was fully refunded within hours of dropping it off at the post office.
If eBay hadn't had played ball I'd have contacted PayPal or maybe have taken the watch to Kings Hill to get something in writing from them, at the time
I was reluctant to do the latter as Rolex/Tudor may have kept and destroyed fake strap as is their right with intellectual property principles.
As it were, eBay came through on that occasion & fair play to them for that.
Last edited by Chris B; 25th March 2023 at 17:34. Reason: typo
Well despite saying no returns the Breitling is on its way back to the Authentication centre, because the buyer is saying the crown was undone and will not screw back in. In addition he says that the clasp is covered in scratches.
I described the Watch as Mint as it was practically new, so the Authentication centre should have sent the watch back to me, if there were any issues.
But they didn’t, Authenticated the watch and sent it to the seller, who has now raised a “Not as described” dispute and is sending the watch back (via the Authenticator).
Are eBay going to say the Authenticator got it wrong, is the Authenticator going to admit they didn’t do their job properly or even cause the scratches - I very much doubt it.
Good luck. I've just had an email from ebay saying the same thing. I sold the watch as used, detailed photos of any scratches. Buyer has opened a return which Ebay have accepted and will update me in two days after the authentication centre have reinspected it. Hey ho, just hope its in the same condition when I get it back.
Never again.
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I feel your pain - its a complete joke !!!
Looks like their rules have changed then.
I wouldn’t use it again if that is now the case and if returns are possible. Opens up a huge realm of undesirable possibilities.
This makes zero sense as the authenticity people are supposed to verify it is as described.
Did both of above posters state no returns?
I would push back unless the rules clearly state you have to accept returns. I haven’t had a chance to re read the rules.
I believe it has changed but there are conflicting statements on the website. For example..
The authenticator should be doing this ..
the authenticator will confirm the item is consistent with the listing title, description, and images. Then, the authenticator will perform a multi-point physical authentication inspection. Finally, a security tag will be attached to the watch.
So in theory they should only be sending to the buyer a watch that in their option matches the Watch description.
There shouldn’t then be any circumstances where the buyer can claim a watch is not as described if the above is done correctly ??
However, there is wriggle room in the following statement..
Buyers can return an item if the seller accepts returns, as stated in the listing, and the return takes place within the seller’s return window, or in the unlikely event the item is ultimately found to be not as described.
And in this the watch will be sent back to the Authenticator where..
If the authentication partner determines the returned item is not the same item, is not in the same condition, or the security tag has been tampered with or removed, it will be sent back to you and the return will be closed
Of course this situation should never arise unless the Watch was damaged to the buyer or the buyer has damaged the Watch.
Worse case scenario for me will be to send the watch backs to Beards for repairing the crown (if it won’t screw back) and then sending the watch to many of the companies online offering a watch refurbishment/ polishing service.
PS does anyone recommend such a company.
That bold part wasn’t in the T&Cs when I last read so yes must be new.
They must have ended up with disgruntled buyers receiving damaged watches with eBay having to take the hit or something similar.
Sorry you are going through this painful process but hope you get it sorted.
Yep, mine stated no returns.
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Thankyou indeed.
There are some stories on other forums where this situation has arisen and despite the seller supplying photographic evidence that their Watch was perfect before sending to the Authenticator, Ebay have still sided with the buyer and there is no way to contact or challenge the Authenticator decision.
As I said, I have a couple of watches to sell and that’s it as far as eBay goes. Honest sellers have buggar all protection
I bought a Seamaster through the authentication system which turned up with a gouge in the lug. And I mean one that would need significant laser welding. Sales pictures conveniently didn't show the damage and somehow the authenticator thought it ok just to send it on to me. I sent it straight back and refund was processed no problem. But that should never have been sent on to me. I should have at least had contact from the authenticator to show the damage and ask if I wanted to proceed. No way I would have bought the watch if full disclosure had been made of the condition.
Presumably a solution would be for the Authenticator to take a catalogue of photos before they send it to be used for comparison if necessary. Couple that with x number of standard checks and problem solved
Ok a quick update. Seller raised a dispute with a Breitling I sold saying not as per description, saying crown won’t screw in (was supplied undone) and Watch covered in scratches. This was on Friday.
This morning I got an email saying they have sided with the buyer and are refunding him !!?!?
I asked for a ring back to appeal and asked where is my watch??
The eBay customer service rep (Authentication team) said this shouldn’t have happened and have reversed the refund. He said the buyer is supposed to be sending the watch back to the Authenticator.
He did say that the Authentication report said the watch matched my description 100%.
They are going to ring me back and I will ask them why has the buyer been allowed to return the watch.
So, they rang back and said that the buyer should never have been refunded! I will get my funds released back to me and according to the Ebay customer representative - the case is closed as far as I am concerned.
I double checked this and same Ebay rep said that the Authentication report said that my watch 100% matched the description. Any issues are now between Ebay and the buyer. The Rep said that maybe the watch was damaged in transit and or by the Buyer. Either way it is non of my concern anymore.
The buyer still has to return the watch back to the Authentication centre, but then Ebay will resolve this with buyer.
So theoretically, the system is working. The dispute is now not showing on my seller hub anymore.
However, I can’t but think this isn’t the end of the matter but we shall see.
BTW I did ask what the Authentication process and was told that they produce a written report and in the case of queries there is CCTV of the inspection.
Last edited by odyseus10; 27th March 2023 at 13:13.
Glad this worked out for you. The system fails if the authentication process is not integral to establishing condition too.
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Indeed, although I can't say 100% for certain that its settled - at the moment it is, but I just don't trust ebay?Glad this worked out for you. The system fails if the authentication process is not integral to establishing condition too.
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Could this buyer, who most likely paid with a credit card, simply file a complaint with their CC company and request a charge-back?
Thanks for the update, much appreciated. Glad it seems to be working for you, and would be good to hear how this settles down.
As mentioned, if the Authentication as a process can't be relied on, then the entire thing is pointless. Even if the buyer claims that back against his card, I presume it's him against Ebay, and you shouldn't be involved. But it would be good to know.
Pleased you've had a good result.
The buyers returned mine to the authentication centre and recieved a refund. My payment is now 'on hold' even though I've already been paid.
Apparantly I'll have an answer by the 5th April.
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Last edited by leo1790; 27th March 2023 at 19:42.
You should ring them up and ask them to tell you about the Authentication report and get them to explain why it was shipped to the buyer, only for them to raise a dispute?
So, just got off the phone with the ebay authentication team, the watch report does match the original listing but they can't offer any other info until they have received the watch back from the buyer.
She said there's a number of items they need to check against when they receive the watch. I pushed for more info into what happens if they change stance and decide it didn't match the original listing, but she wouldn't elaborate until they have the watch back at the centre.
I can just see this being a nightmare if the watch is damaged, buyer refunded and the watch returned to me. Legal battle with Ebay? No thanks.
So basically contradicts everything I was told. If the Authentication team wrote a report saying your watch matches the description then why are they allowing a return..
What has the buyer claimed and did Tim put through the Authentication Customer Service?
Well, just had an email to say they have decided in the buyers favour and the watch is on its way back to me.
Haven't got time to call them today so will give them a call in the morning. Can't see that I'll get anywhere with it but I'd like to know what the reasoning is, especially when it's been authenticated and true to the original advert.
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That truly is not fair. Do fight it as far as you can.
From the seller’s perspective they listed the watch honestly and truthfully.
From the buyer’s perspective what they received doesn’t match the description.
The only person in the middle who handled the watch is at the authenticators.
The only fair result here, for both parties, is for eBay to take full responsibility for the actions of their authenticators.
I think part of the problem is that people are too used to returning items in general. Larger retailers work on ratios but some people are too used to taking the piss
eBay is going to end up buying a lot of damaged watches - which I guess their customer base will be paying for.
Probably explains why I recently saw on there a hint that they may start charging for the authenticity process.
That's absolutely ridiculous, and makes a mockery of the authentication. The authenticator confirmed it was as the advert - this is only an issue between the authenticator, buyer and eBay. Hope you get somewhere with the phone call, I can't see how this can be appropriate.
I know Scottish Watches have done podcasts WITH the eBay people, who talked up how great their system was (and in doing so pimped it to watch fans). Post phone call it might be worth letting them know what happened with you, so the other side of the story can go out to the world?
Best of luck
I found and listened to that podcast this afternoon. Interesting that say it’s to protect sellers too. That doesn’t seem to be the case in the situation above.
They have already started charging business sellers for their authentication service. It will coming to the masses soon I suspect
Do you know how much ?
I suspect £100 or so could be worth it.
If it works. If examples above are what is happening then it’s a barge pole situation.
Have they? Have you proof
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Just to add my 2p, recently bought a grand seiko that went through authentication. Was a bit worried they would try open the case. No idea if they did or not. Watch arrived just fine though.
I have one I’m buying on the way to the authenticators at the moment.
So I have just clarified this with my brother who is a 'business seller' and mentioned it to me a few weeks ago. He said they are not directly charging but they have just put fees on selling watches up by 50% and he suspected this was to cover authentication fees. Sorry for any confusion
As a business seller I can confirm this is correct
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I had a private seller cancel a sale a fortnight ago as his fees on a £3.5k watch were £448. Can't see many folk paying anything close to that so it'll be watch sales via occasional offers for most people.
The seller of the watch I have bought, and is on its way to the authenticators, told me he initially listed with stock images to get something up when a fees offer was on.
Watch on way to the authenticators shows as being delivered this morning at 5:59am and signed for my someone at RAPID LOGIC.
I assume they are the logistics side of the authentication process.
This is my stance for any high value items. For low value tat I use it with no issues at all.I think all in all (and this is probably pretty obvious) stay well clear if eBay unless you accept the one or two trouble makers
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Yes that is the name of the place it is delivered to and checked.
Thanks.
Looks like a busy place!
Where did you find that picture!?Thanks.
Looks like a busy place!
They even have a 'drive thro' authentication process.
https://www.ebayinc.com/stories/news...station-in-la/
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Seller sent me a tracking number for RMSD to the authentication centre.
The photo was provided as ‘proof of delivery’ to RAPID LOGIC on the Royal Mail tracking app.
Last edited by SydR; 3rd April 2023 at 09:51.
I honestly cannot see how this adds any value to the process?
They have very little chance of being accurate in their assessment given the number of super fakes and franked watches. If they edge towards caution then it additionally stalls the process. I cannot see me buying/selling any decent value item on eBay again.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Despite eBay putting this in place there is still, very much, an element of buy the seller as always.
Last edited by SydR; 3rd April 2023 at 11:12.
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