Reply With QuoteI have always been taught that to move up you have to move on. At least that's true in my line of work. Staying with one employer for decades is not positive.
They can ask but they probably won’t get. Mrs T-7 is HR Director for the world’s largest cycling media company. Their policy is to give only factual references. Saves getting into legal arguments.Originally Posted by bloater
I have always been taught that to move up you have to move on. At least that's true in my line of work. Staying with one employer for decades is not positive.
Your management are very naive and I personally would see this as a good reason to vote with my feet.
RIAC
The public sector recruitment and promotion process is protracted and often frustrating but it's a lot fairer than you describe happening to you. As others have said, get yourself a move and bow out professionally whilst leaving no doubt why an experienced employee has left.
Best of luck.
worth having a think about why you want the promotion.
are you looking for more responsibility and stress? or a just a change? or a chance at management? or do you just want more money?
if you like your job but dont like the idea of others being paid more after promotion - ask for a raise.
if you genuinely wanted the other job, then as others have said, find a new one elsewhere. and in the meantime, remain professional as you never know what might happen in the future.
best of luck, hope it all works out for you in the end!
As has been said. Ask for a raise and start looking for another job. If you don’t get the raise you can be gone as soon as you are offered another job
Stop training people so well.................
Add 'She, her' to your email signature. Job done.
You won the internet today
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Lincs, after that length of time in the company, you will naturally feel hugely invested and as a fellow techie, I know work can become all consuming and feel very personal. It isn’t. Work is work. Everything else is life.
You've been passed over, twice. You think for unfair reasons. Life sadly isn't fair. Your manager may have told you what you wanted to hear about why that happened, but he won't repeat that if you go formal or take a legal route.
I was in a situation where a non-IT person was put in charge of all four IT depts. in our group, covering seven different companies. This bloke had been at GCHQ, could spout management-speak but knew nothing about networks, computers or anything practical. None of the IT Managers had been made aware that his post was being created nor were we offered an opportunity to apply. I only found out he’d been appointed by a third person asking me if he was my new boss. I’d been there 19 years.
The company I worked for had an abysmal record when it came to successfully defending unfair dismissal claims; they didn’t know what they were doing, they thought they could do what they liked and hated the idea of bad publicity.
I consulted with an employment lawyer who had helped former colleagues win their cases, she said I had a good case. BUT on balance, I took the view that life is too short, I resigned and went freelance. The stress of fighting a case, in which the outcome is never certain, was not worth it in my situation. My work life balance, five years on is 100% better and my mental health without the stress of being in a job where I didn’t feel valued, is 1,000 times better.
As others have said, see this as an opportunity and a great time to move on. Make sure you know what happens with your pension and write that letter.
It’s great not working for arseholes.
BTW the guy they put in charge at my place lasted 6 months by which time four other IT staff had left taking about 100 years of experience with them.
All the best!
Last edited by dkpw; 3rd March 2022 at 17:25.
OK, deep breath.
Maybe the problem isn't the company, but you.
You've been there a long time, you've not been promoted.
If you've been there that long, was it JUST women getting promoted ahead of you or have men in the past?
You seem to believe that they OWE you a promotion, but maybe that comes through in your attitude - I can't say if it does or not and I realise this OP was a bit of a 'vent', so may not reflect your general response and attitude, but maybe it DOES to some degree?
You may well be technically excellent, but maybe there's something else about you at work that makes them choose to promote others ahead of you?
If there's really nothing you can see, with a bit of self-reflection, that you could improve upon, you just work for a shite company and should take your talents elsewhere and stop wasting them there.
BTW I was in a similar situation to dkpw a few years ago and left a job I'd been in for a fair number of years because of a newly appointed boss who I believe was fundamentally incompetent. I left under a bit of a cloud - Many of the management level refused to talk to me, but within two months the 'boss' was 'taking compassionate leave' and never returned - Basically he was quietly fired for being useless, but it was disguised as he'd been a personal selection (and friend) of the CEO.
I went freelancing for a while and then to a job I loved, stepping away is so liberating.
M
Last edited by snowman; 3rd March 2022 at 17:44.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Must admit I did actually lol at that one.You won the internet today
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You work for the Royal Household?
Kidding aside: asking for references is really not of this day and age (anymore). LinkedIn with it's 'branches' and recommendations should give HR enough information.
@ the Topic starter: what would your reaction have been when two men had made the promotion?
Last edited by thieuster; 3rd March 2022 at 18:45.
In some professions safer recruitment means 5 years of references are needed to meet Safeguarding requirements. If a previous employer refuses it’s a nightmare
I wish it was five years. In my line of work we have what is called a post 16 reference grid. All and every place that I have worked since the age of 16 where there has been work with children, young people or vulnerable adults, a reference is sought. I am independent so get away with just five years worth of references sometimes, but often I have to wait whilst references are sought from all of the places that I have worked in the past 30 years. To give you some idea of the issue, I am currently undertaking work for 9 different companies / LA's / Government Departments. I am a member of the DBS update service, but have 7 current different DBS checks (because despite being able to check online for an instant check, some places still do not use this service), and recently had to explain to one company that as I am now 55 years of age two of my usual referees have passed away of old age! Just last month I was being hassled to give the name of someone at a LA that I worked at in 1996. Nightmare....
Back on topic... I feel for you OP, but sometimes things hold us back that we are unaware of. It may be them, it may be us.... It would be easy to down tools and work to rule as someone above suggested. I have always been of the opinion that if someone is paying me to do a job, even if I am miffed beyond belief and want to strangle a few people, I will do the very best that I can. I think this comes from growing up in abstract poverty, leaving school at 11, and having this inbuilt chip on my shoulder that means I am always trying to prove to people that they are wrong. Keep on keeping on and doing a good job, and start digging your escape tunnel towards another job. Leave with a smile and a handshake. That really confuses people.....
Ah that explains.
Your phenomenally fast time trial times, clearly using the state of the art bike bits :)
I kept trying to find a way to sensitively and empathetically suggest a little self-reflection... But gave up as it was too hard! However this post nails it.
Work becomes the center of our lives, deeply personal, and rejection hurts. I believe it always pays to start with yourself when looking for solutions. Wishing you best of luck with the situation and genuinely hope you find a solution that makes you happier!
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This is hard but fair advice i'd say.
My 2p is that you should just leave, as even if you got promoted i think you'd still be peeved. 15 years is a long long time and you'll massively benefit from a change of scene and putting your talent to use elsewhere. It's daunting to leave as you wonder if you're only good at the job or if you've just been there a long time. I left a previous role after 10 years in the company and it was scary but a few months in i though "wow i am good at this"/
Regarding employment tribunals - i've done it twice. First time was clear cut and it still took a year and a lot of heartache to get my money (that i was contractually entitled to). 2nd time, being honest, was me wanting revenge (a not dissimilar situation to yourself, new boss and started to go backwards) and i gave up half way through as i realised that it was costing too much in terms of my mental health. It's almost impossible to win against a company who's lawyered up if you're representing yourself. I know, i tried. And if you get a lawyer yourself you'll not get those costs back even if you win.
Vote with your feet. It's a job seekers market at the moment and after 15 years in the same company I expect you'll see a significant pay rise from going elsewhere.
I have heard a couple of accounts of recording similar conversations on mobile phones, and having management confirm their bias etc. in relation to certain appointments. Funnily enough one settled prior to a tribunal and the other paid out.
Another local case and involving some ex colleagues of mine, although not in relation to a promotion, more related to the withdrawal of a reference and other matters, ended up being one of our largest awarded payouts.
Businesses won’t learn very quickly if they aren’t taken to task. Personally, I’d probably just walk, but part of me would want them to be shown up for any wrong doing or illegal bias.
It's just a matter of time...
I completely agree stuff like this only goes on because no one stands up to them because they are worried it will finish their careers
If you want to start stirring the shit got to HR and ask them for the company policy on recruiting for vacancies, where does it have to advertised, for how long etc
Then ask how it was applied in these two cases, raise an official grievance.
OR forget it and move on, if you are genuinely unhappy, going through the above procedure probably won't help as you will be chewing it over again and again, put all that energy into finding a new job.
There are a lot of IT vacancies out there.
I went contracting for a while and I found it a lot less stressful as I didn't need to deal with office politics. So if you do end up leaving your current role, think about taking a contract role for a while to tide you over and get the stress out of your system.
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My most recent promotion, which was into the job I had been doing for a year already, was delayed so they could find a woman to interview. The HR policy stated that every role at that level needed to have a woman interviewed for it, even if it was a simple promotion of a secondee already in the role. This is financial services IT.
However, in terms of the OP, these days the concept of being in line for promotion is dead.
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Absolutely, the private sector and its smoke and mirrors are a mystery to me, but then I’ve been in central government for 23 years!
Re leaving to go elsewhere, keep in mind that the new normal woke Political correctness is everywhere.
I’m in engineering. The company I work for is part of a much bigger multinational company. We are a small specialist dept with three staff. When recruiting for a new member of staff my manager had a terrible time. During an interview with a lady it became clear she had never worked at high voltage, and said she didn’t wish to. After it was explained that was a critical part of the job, she agreed it wasn’t for her then.
Within 15 minutes of filling in forms and emailing to HR my manager was phoned and asked “why did you turn her down? She was our most diverse applicant!”.
The OP can always sue for hurt feelings. You don't even have to be employed for that.
Good luck OP. I left the NHS because I kept getting dumped on.
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