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Thread: Smiths W10 - what to check

  1. #1

    Smiths W10 - what to check

    Found this one locally. Says it has the hacking 60466E movement, and is from 1967:



    Reverse:



    Appreciate the wisdom of others. Are any issues obvious from these pics, or is there anything else to check?

    TT

  2. #2
    Just did a quick visual comparison to mine and I can’t spot anything obvious.


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  3. #3
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I’m on the hunt for one of these and that one looks fine. The dial and hands look good, just make sure all those scratches are on the crystal and not the dial. There is often a three or two digit code on the movement close to the movement number that signifies month and year, that quite often ties in with the year of issue.

    As a W10 issue they are more common than the rarer 6B or the scratched out W10 that is replaced with an 0552. Prices in the UK would be around £1,200 to £1,300 for a private sale with the dealers asking closer to £2k, but they tend to be very slow sellers at the upper end unless they are superb examples.

  4. #4
    Keep an eye out for replacement crowns. Not something that particularly bothers me, but it does some.

    Just for comparison I sold a couple 10 years ago at around £400, so trebled in 10 years.


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  5. #5
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Just for comparison I sold a couple 10 years ago at around £400, so trebled in 10 years.
    Although a lot were issued, I think over the years most have been bought by collectors and not so many come to the market place these days and that has pushed the prices up. I have a WTB on here and on MWR and not a sniff.

    Finest Hour have the rarer scratched out W10 with 0552 added and want £3.5k for it…

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/all/smith...id20360035.htm

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Although a lot were issued, I think over the years most have been bought by collectors and not so many come to the market place these days and that has pushed the prices up. I have a WTB on here and on MWR and not a sniff.

    Finest Hour have the rarer scratched out W10 with 0552 added and want £3.5k for it…

    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/all/smith...id20360035.htm
    There was one on MWR about a month ago for £1300 that had been recently serviced by Simon Freese. Don’t know the outcome of that one.

    And I noticed one on EBay yesterday for £1600 or something like that.


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  7. #7
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    There was one on MWR about a month ago for £1300 that had been recently serviced by Simon Freese. Don’t know the outcome of that one.

    And I noticed one on EBay yesterday for £1600 or something like that.


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    The one on MWR was £1,350 but had a big shadow across the dial in a sort of horse shoe shape from the 3 round to the 9 like perhaps the hour hand had been scraping across the dial years ago. The seller sent me some images, but that put me off that one. Another guy listed a 6B and eventually reduced his price to £1.5k but I didn’t like the engraving, it didn’t look like other examples and reminded me of some CWC divers I’ve seen that clearly have replacement case backs, so I passed on that one as well. It is a bugger finding a tidy example.

  8. #8
    Many thanks gentlemen. For reference, this one is at a dealer, serviced (but deliberately not “restored”) with a one year guarantee. It is priced at £1500 including local sales tax (10%). I'm in full “pondering” mode on this one.
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 21st February 2022 at 11:04.

  9. #9
    If the private collectors market is £1200 +/- £200 and a service is say £225, I don't think you would find one retail in the UK for that price. The scratches on the crystal and casebook and dirty green lume of the hands make it look a bit scruffy, but it's a 50 year old watch with wabi.

    The Smiths W10 is a great looking watch.

    I have a Smiths W10, Hamilton 6B and IWC Mk11. Love the black face three-hand MoD design of these and will never sell them.


    I've had three Fat Arrow Omega 53s. Again, great case and design, but I've moved them on, I just don't like the Fat Arrow dial, it's horrible. A thin arrow would make a nice addition, but its price makes it out of my league. I think I prefer the Bienne redial to a Fat Arrow, sacrilege to collectors.

    Then there's the Smith DeLuxe that would make a nice set of five, unfortunately beyond my means and I guess always will be.

    Pick up a pristine one locally, box, papers, original strap, nearly £8000!

    Last edited by BillyCasper; 21st February 2022 at 11:32.

  10. #10
    Haha, thanks… based on the pics, that one may be the same one noted here https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-NOS-from-1969

    Bit out of my league

  11. #11
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    The back is a bit grotty, the front looks exactly as I'd expect and nothing at all sets off any alarms for me. The fact that the back and hesalite are unmolested and the hesalite needs a polish bodes well for originality throughout. With one of these I think that's what matters. There's cheaper on ebay, but a bird in the hand...

    My only concern is that the corrosion on the back is right next to the crown- this looks fine and original, but whatever led to corrosion there must have been reasonably long term and so may have slipped inside. I'd ask to see the back off and if the shroud is there and the movement is consistently shiny, especially near the crown, I'd go for it. The most likely explanation is that the back had a thinner or thicker gasket and that corrosion (on both sides) is the the sign of where the NATO went, but not for so long as there's no sign of actual wear. It's probably nothing, but worth checking as there is no better sight than a pristine movement in a slightly foxed case!

    It's been said before, but they do have a lovely tick!
    Last edited by M4tt; 21st February 2022 at 12:29.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    Haha, thanks… based on the pics, that one may be the same one noted here

    Bit out of my league
    Defo, missed that post (or I just can’t remember it)


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  13. #13
    Thanks, may ask to see the innards. Another pic, showing the crown and state of the crystal:



    Reassuringly shabby, or a bit knackered?

  14. #14
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    The thing is, with a military watch, you don't want a safe queen as at least one of the reasons you are buying it is the vague idea that it is a watch that has seen service. So for me, I'd say it's precisely as I'd want to see it. The dial and hands are perfect and as you'd expect, with nicely burned out tritium. The crown looks correct but not heavily worn and the fact that it hasn't been prettied up is a good sign that WYSIWYG. If I was in the market, then this is a lovely example of precisely what you want and I'd take it over an immaculate but unissued one.

    However, I'll just pop this here to confuse the Rev when he arrives:



    That's the sort of condition you are looking for. You can check consistency between the issue date and the build date using the number just above the prettiest balance bridge in Christendom.
    Last edited by M4tt; 21st February 2022 at 12:54.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Remember that there should be a movement cover inside.



    Not much you can do if it's missing but it could help with the haggling. Mine also was missing but I was able to source one from Ebay.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Price wise with a service included definitely in the ball park for one of these. I agree check the insides around the crown.

    These are getting harder to find and will definitely increase in value over time. I’m usually pretty good at tracking stuff down, but I’m seriously struggling to find a decent one.

  17. #17
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    Still beating myself up for not going for the one Montello listed for sale here back in November 2020. Serviced by John Senior. Sold for £1250.

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...service-record

  18. #18
    Someone did well there!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    Still beating myself up for not going for the one Montello listed for sale here back in November 2020. Serviced by John Senior. Sold for £1250.

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...service-record
    I bought one from the same MrH haul. That was some find!

    Also serviced by John Senior. Practically a new watch. Mine’s a 1968


  20. #20
    As Ken suggests, they are getting harder to find. If you want one and the innards are clean, buy it. If in the future you find one you like better, buy that and sell the one you have, I don’t think there’s a chance you will lose anything.

    If the crystal is a bit too battered for your liking, polish it, or buy a replacement.

    (I see Obsoletewatchparts is closed - recovering from back operation).


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  21. #21

    Smiths W10 - what to check

    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I bought one from the same MrH haul. That was some find!

    Also serviced by John Senior. Practically a new watch. Mine’s a 1968

    What’s the strap? One of the DEF3 or AF0210 remakes? Revo?


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    Last edited by BillyCasper; 21st February 2022 at 15:27.

  22. #22



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  23. #23
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Sorry to hijack the thread, but been looking at a Longines WWW on e-bay

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255339296...YAAOSwBz1h5cdq

    Looks good to my eyes and checking the prices, apart from maybe a private sale it does seem to be in the ballpark. I did contact the guy to see if he would take a part trade, CWC 1981 Navigator, but he is looking for a cash sale.

    I do like the Longines WWW.

    Anyone spot anything wrong with it?

    We clearly need a dedicated thread to share knowledge on military watches and pricing - should I start one.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but been looking at a Longines WWW on e-bay

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255339296...YAAOSwBz1h5cdq

    Looks good to my eyes and checking the prices, apart from maybe a private sale it does seem to be in the ballpark. I did contact the guy to see if he would take a part trade, CWC 1981 Navigator, but he is looking for a cash sale.

    I do like the Longines WWW.

    Anyone spot anything wrong with it?

    We clearly need a dedicated thread to share knowledge on military watches and pricing - should I start one.
    By far the nicest WWW. Oh Lordy, £5000+, sold mine for £1500 in 2015 and regretted it ever since. Good sized stainless steel case.

    The lug and casebook serial numbers match. That counts as a positive.

    I haven't kept pictures of mine but things to check against a datum are hands, crown and crystal. The crystal should be flat topped. Mine originally had JLC hands. Replacements came from obsoletewatchparts.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    By far the nicest WWW. Oh Lordy, £5000+, sold mine for £1500 in 2015 and regretted it ever since. Good sized stainless steel case.

    The lug and casebook serial numbers match. That counts as a positive.

    I haven't kept pictures of mine but things to check against a datum are hands, crown and crystal. The crystal should be flat topped. Mine originally had JLC hands. Replacements came from obsoletewatchparts.
    Thanks for this. Prices have gone bonkers in recent years. I remember a few years ago people guessing what a full set of WWWs would be worth and the collective agreed around £30k. Dealers are asking and getting £25k for the Grana on its own, so god only knows what a set is worth now. Longines is pushing £5k, the IWC and JLC are also serious money and even the humble Omega is a £2.5k watch these days.

    I checked the crystal on the e-bay listing and it looks rounded and domed, whereas the crystal on the example being sold by Finest Hour is more of a top hat type crystal that looks flat across the top. If the guy on e-bay had been willing to take my Navigator in part trade then I would have considered it, but £5k cash on top of buying the Australian Smiths GS DeLuxe last month is just too much.

    I will lower my sights accordingly and continue to look for a nice Smiths W10 to go with the DeLuxe GS.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 21st February 2022 at 18:21.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    What’s the strap? One of the DEF3 or AF0210 remakes? Revo?


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    It’s one I got from Revo

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but been looking at a Longines WWW on e-bay

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255339296...YAAOSwBz1h5cdq

    Looks good to my eyes and checking the prices, apart from maybe a private sale it does seem to be in the ballpark. I did contact the guy to see if he would take a part trade, CWC 1981 Navigator, but he is looking for a cash sale.

    I do like the Longines WWW.

    Anyone spot anything wrong with it?

    We clearly need a dedicated thread to share knowledge on military watches and pricing - should I start one.
    It might help, to avoid crashing the OP’s thread….like I’m about to do again!

  28. #28
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    It might help, to avoid crashing the OP’s thread….like I’m about to do again!
    Will do, but to be fair the OP is sorted now.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    New dedicated thread now set up.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but been looking at a Longines WWW on e-bay

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255339296...YAAOSwBz1h5cdq

    Looks good to my eyes and checking the prices, apart from maybe a private sale it does seem to be in the ballpark. I did contact the guy to see if he would take a part trade, CWC 1981 Navigator, but he is looking for a cash sale.

    I do like the Longines WWW.

    Anyone spot anything wrong with it?

    We clearly need a dedicated thread to share knowledge on military watches and pricing - should I start one.
    Looks nice. As BC says, it should have a flat-topped crystal. Lug & case back numbers match which is desirable. The hands & maybe the dial appear to have that mint-coloured lume favoured by the MoD.

    I like them so much that I've got a couple, both sourced from John Senior. I have the rest of the set as well.

    Some images for reference:





    Last edited by trident-7; 21st February 2022 at 19:07.

  31. #31
    Craftsman
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    My 1967 example, had a new crystal at some point and the dial is slightly scratched/marked but does appear otherwise pretty original.


  32. #32
    Thanks all for the very useful info and for the comparison pictures too. I am passing on this one, as I'm already looking at something else

    If anyone is interested, it is still available. The shop is Houseki Hiroba, a well known bricks-and-mortar dealer in Tokyo. They do ship internationally, and you'll save the local tax (but presumably pay whatever your own tax and/or customs are) but you are on your own if you decide to proceed. I have used the shop often, but have no connection with them.

    https://housekihiroba.jp/shop/g/g587370001/ (click the “English” button near the top right)

    TT

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