How the flying hell are these things legal, they’re at the right height to blind you whilst causing a seizure at the same time.
Question to the SOME of the cyclists who use them….how can you see where you're going? Ive seen loads of people using them on back roads and surely not having a constant spread of light is a bad thing considering the state of our roads?
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd January 2022 at 12:17.
A constant spread of light is indeed essential to see the road properly.
There are loads of mega bright cheap Chinese-made lights around that a lot of people use, this is probably what you're seeing.
It's not ideal for many reasons.
Yes…cree LEDs are a real pain. My local running club are out in force every Tuesday night with 12 groups running the local roads. For some reason, despite running on well lit pavements they run in groups of about 10 all wearing cree LED chest straps. I’m a solo runner and it’s blinding if you come face-to-face with 10 cree lights.
They are not for seeing where we are going, they are so that you can see us.Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
Most rural cyclists (with any sense) would also have an additional light to see with.
Personally I use a headtorch as well as flashing LEDs.
I wouldn't bother in a city though as there is enough background light to see by
Cool but didn’t think you were supposed to use head torches as lights had to be a min/max from the ground?
I think all those rules were dropped a while back, you could only fit flashing lights to clothing before that, but now you can fit them to the bike itself.
I use a German TüV approved LED pedelec headlight, with a very crisp beam cut off so it doesn’t dazzle other road users despite being very bright.
On the rear I use a Garmin radar light that flashes more intensely if it detects the closing car isn’t moving over to safely pass, and it lets me know too.
I get a bit annoyed by cyclists lights that dazzle though, but I understand the desire to be seen.
You're right, they're supposed to be "up to 1500mm from the ground". I do find a head torch useful personally. One good thing about using one for cycling is that if an inconsiderate driver blinds you with headlights on full beam, you can tilt your head and flash them back, much like you might in a car. Usually has the desired effect.
When I ride at night on the mountain bike I do have a helmet light for the off-road trail sections, but on the road bike I don’t bother.
Mind you, all my bikes are technically illegal for the road because I don’t have amber reflectors on the pedals… go figure.
They aren't for seeing where you're going. They're very good at making you visible, sorry you've had a bad experience with them. For night riding you do need to illuminate the road in front of you in a non-flashing fashion. I use both. The flashers only when the road is visible enough but conditions have started to get a bit gloomy, or for very well lit stretches of road.
I don't see anything other than the flashing bright lights, i don't understand why you’d put being seen higher up the priority list than than seeing where you're going. As others have said theres other ways of being visible without blinding the oncoming traffic.
It helps to prevent motor vehicles from colliding with you. But you can have both easily; it's not either-or.
I don’t ride in the dark any more since some idiot fractured my hip. I also avoid cycle paths & cycle lanes for the same reason (I was knocked off on the Bristol-Bath cycle path (aka the Psycho Path) by another cyclist.
However I do have a very bright flashing rear light for daytime riding. Flashing attracts attention better than constant. I also time trial and a rear daytime light is compulsory when racing. I’m not sure it has to be flashing but everybody seems to have that. Despite this there’s usually one or two deaths per year as a result of a driver ‘driving through’ the cyclist because they’re texting/on the internet/playing with the satnav at the time. In other words it’s not failsafe because it relies on the driver actually having their eyes on the road ahead at the time.
I agree with FFF that a front flashing light is useless for seeing where you’re going on a bike.
I don't think you have thought that through....
If you don't see us, we likely end up dead
I’ve seen this recently loads of times on a very steep winding road I use to drive to work like having a single car light weaving towards you on main beam I too don’t see how they can be legal u can’t drive round with you car on full beam constantly
If you want to be visible, wearing a high vis vest is much more efficient than blinding the people you want to be visible to.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
As a cyclist a driver and motorcycle rider I can see all sides here.
During the day on my bicycle if Im riding in a group I wear a high viz gillet.
If Im riding on my own eg reduced presence, I run a flashing front and rear light all year round even in summer during the day.
If I ride at night I wear high vis and solid lights. As a rider it is horrible riding with a flashing front at night as it makes you feel ill. Additionally your vision is poor as you switch from illuminated to pitch black.
Regrettably riding a bicycle and a motorcycle is all about riding defensively. On a motorcycle you can adopt an assertive position on the road eg closer to the crown and away from the kerb because you can maintain traffic speed.
On a cycle this isnt an option so in the daylight lights and high vis are your only allies.
Addressing the op’s comments flashing front and rear lights at night is just dangerous for both parties.
As ever with threads like these there’s a anti cyclist tone, the op invites ‘cyclists’ to explain why they do this with an intimation that all cyclists do this, obviously I can’t say if this was a conscious or unconscious position.
I use a number of lights on my bikes at night I have a solid white on the front and a relatively low powered flashing light and generally a red flash on the back. There have been studies that show drivers are more adapt to notice a flashing light than a steady beam, hence cyclists using them to draw attention. That said with the led output advances it’s easy for some cyclists to use over the top outputs and / or not adjust the focus point.
Now why is it that car drivers are using hi-beam all the time and blinding cyclists then ;-)
He did ask cyclists “how do you see where you are going” which is something only a cyclist could answer?
Theres no anti-cyclist undertone at all, I’m inviting SOME cyclist to answer as clearly it’s SOME cyclist who use them, they can either answer or not, its really up to them. I don't recall seeing a pedestrian walking down a dimly lit road using one. Funnily enough i see them using a good old fashion torch which emits a white solid light. I don't believe motorists are blinding cyclists intentionally, i think its modern LED tech added with auto dipping lights that are the issue. I started a thread on here probably 18-24 months ago about that very subject where i was noticing getting blinded more frequently….i wasn’t alone with that assertion.
I get that SOME cyclist need to be seen but i don’t understand the need for these massively high powered white flashing lights…other than to be seen they make no sense. They’re putting themselves at more risks of not seeing whats in front of them more that the chances of being hit from the front which is pretty stupid.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd January 2022 at 12:22. Reason: SOMEone got offended
Again not cyclists, some cyclists, you seem to have missed that bit…
If you were walking down a country lane without a footpath in the dark, you'd be well advised to. I can't remember when I last saw someone doing that, though.
So as you can read here I have not accused you of having an agenda, I have stated my believe that the op has a tone to it and I’m unsure if this is a conscious or unconscious position. After all you chose to group cyclists as a whole not me.
Also after pointing out that you had grouped all cyclists rather than observing that some cyclists undertook this behaviour, you response is to label some “easily offended” with a sarcastic edit tag
Though the more you rail against being challenged over the issue and wanting to know why good old hi-vis isn’t sufficient or even acknowledging that you wouldn’t start a thread talking about other groups as a whole does make me wonder if there isn’t some bias being enacted here…
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd January 2022 at 17:29.
It really is quite simple, from my first post i was asking how they are legal and how cyclists can see where they’re going. If you really want to prattle on about anything else be my guest. Go argue with yourself
Not enough trouble making in the BP for you Herr Kapitän?
Get over yourself
Not if you ride off road…
I ride bicycles and motorbikes and I drive so can see all sides. However cyclists with lights over a 1000 lumens pointed deliberately high are a menace around here.
It is unnecessary to be seen and simply blinds drivers and pedestrians, arguably making it more dangerous. I have a front light that is 1600 lumens on full power, and I would not dream of having it that bright in the road. With streetlights I have it angled down, and flashing at 600 lumens. The full brightness is really too much even for mountain bike rides in the woods, no idea why so much power is necessary.
When I’m cycling in winter I often end up on unlit country roads with little traffic.
I often have:
A front light blinking, probably 150 lumens, it says “I’m a bike”
A 1200 lumen light to see with, although it toggles between a high and low power setting, so if there is an oncoming car I switch it to low, then back when the car has gone past.
My rear red light is on blink, but if I’m really organised I might have a fixed one too, as it’s easier for the car behind me to judge distance.
In an urban environment you only need relatively low lumen front and rear lights
D
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My cycle home takes me through central London then the length of Epping Forest in the dark.
For the rear I have a hi viz backpack cover. An LED flashing on the back of my head and a fixed on under the seat post that is also a camera.
On the front I use a flashing LED light on its own until I get to Epping Forest when I turn on my Exposure Diablo in high setting so I can see the road.
In the city I think you've be safe without lights, but in the forest you need a lot of help.
Some cyclists use stupidly bright lights and occasionally they are angled in such a way that they blind other road users. A bit like being in a small car heading towards a comparatively taller SUV with LEDs: the throw of the light makes it hazardous. It may be an eyesight thing for a few but more likely it's what I've described.
You can still be seen with a bright light aimed at the road in front of you, rather than at the eyes of whoever is approaching you.
I hope you don't mind me saying that your response, barreti, is very short sighted, pun intended. Blinding other road users makes everyone less safe.
Last edited by Bondurant; 23rd January 2022 at 21:41.
I'll make my point again. As a cyclist I need really bright lights because cars don't dip their lights and I can't see a thing without them. I ride in an unlit road through a forest, so need the light need to illuminate the way ahead.
I'm not making any point about your need to see the road. I felt I made a clear point about the angle of the beam.
But maybe not.
I’ve tried most forms of lights on my road, hybrids and mountain bikes but settled on bright white front, no flashing and bright red rear, flashing. I didn’t like flashing rear lights as I felt they were potentially hazardous for road users behind me and that if they were acceptable, then motorcycles would have them. However, a number of shunts and near misses from the rear convinced me that flashing rear stands out from the rest of the visual clutter. Since making that decision, the near misses from the rear have reduced with the only incident of note being an angry twat in a Range Rover pulling up alongside me at a junction and shouting that I had blinded him and that I should be more considerate. It was ironic considering he was throwing out oodles of lumens from what appeared to be four different front light clusters, all of which were probably blinding people in normal cars in front of him. I’ll do whatever it takes to be seen on the road and if a few of the other road users are mildly inconvenienced but have still seen me and moved around me, then that’s all to the good.
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