Scarce car, but a Volvo V90 T6, or a T8 if you fancy a hybrid.
______
Jim.
Thing is your basing an RS6 on track performance, that amount of power and weight will chew road tyres and even though they under steer I imagine they were still moving very quick, much quicker than a fast road drive.Originally Posted by yumma
As a road car they are bloody good, super comfortable for a car with this performance if not expensive to run!
Personally for a family performance wagon I would go S6/S4 Avant for understated power and cheaper residuals..
I think that is a bit out of date, plenty of young male/female BMW drivers, I’m neither young or a BMW driver as an every day car!!
Lexus GS F?
That's a plus for me :)
THis was also in my mind - the idea that this will be the last time AMG will put a big petrol engine in a car, at least, without electronic assistance. And that it might be my last petrol car ever! Might as well go out with a bang!
This is what we did - bought a V8 before they get legislated out of existence. £600 VED and £130 per tank is painful but you only live once, and it won't be long until we're all in eco boxes anyway.
Alpina...
I know the early M3/M4’s were heavily criticised for their spiky handling close to the limit. I think this was addressed with the later competition cars which is the only one I’d go for . Love the wheels on these also, I prefer the look of that M3 over the M4. I’ve not driven any earlier car, only a completion spec.
I’ve owned E46 M3 manual and E92 M3 manual, loved them both, regretted selling them both.
I opted for the Alpha in the end over the M3 because I’d always loved the looks and to try something different. I’d recommend one to OP in a heartbeat but they’re probably just outside budget for decent one with some warranty.
Id say from your list the M3 & M5 will be too small for the reality of lugging around everything that comes with a child. You can make it work but i think you will end up wishing you had a rear hatch rather than a saloon boot. BMW M340i estate seeing as they don't do a full M version or the X3 M40i?
Perhaps slightly leftfield but how about a Vauxhall.....
VXR8.
Four Doors. Big Boot. Grunt. Sorted.
Fwiw, I have an f13 M6 (convertible) and it's a fabulous all-round car
I'd have a Gran Coupe in a heartbeat if I needed 4 usable seats. Much rarer and better looking than the F10 M5.
Worth bearing in mind that you can get the newer F90 M5 for around £55k and dropping, that may well be my next car (as traction is a constant issue with these rwd M cars)
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It is, but it's not that much fun to drive.
Same can be said of the SEAT badged ones.
Quicker than you'll ever be able to use on a British road, though.
If I was buying again, I'd get something with less power that you can actually drive at 80% on the road.
M
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Last edited by snowman; 19th January 2022 at 23:09.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Controversial opinion…
Change your wife’s Mini for something you both enjoy such as a “warm” SUV (X3 30i/30d or equivalent competitor) and continue to enjoy your MX5!
My company car policy doesn’t allow for a large practical family car, only hatchbacks, so I knocked the Personal Fuel Allowance on the head (saving £120pm) and upgraded the wife’s Golf to an XC60 which I love, and she rather enjoys too. All round win
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Mine was CP and went that way for the exact reason you state. I’d hate to know what the early ‘unfinished’ ones were like lol
I had a 2017 M4CP, it was rubbish, kangerood unless you floored it, Ediff tried to kill me on wet roundabouts at low speeds, really not a good car, didn't keep it long
I remember not believing until I owned one!
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I remember chatting to the guys at DMS (my go-to remap company) and they said they get a huge amount of business from M4 customers not looking for more power necessarily, but trying to improve drivability. They referred to the ‘all or nothing’ nature of it, which they say they help smooth out.
Anyway… my money would go on an M550i. I had a 540i until very recently and it was superb as a family car, but still good to drive. The only family downside was the fact it was a saloon so the boot opening wasn’t ideal, but the boot size and rear seat space was great for family life, and it would settle down into a smooth and quiet 5-series when I had kids onboard.
The M550i is that, but more… but should be more family friendly than an M5, e.g. for those moments when you want your kid to sleep rather than be rattled around in a noisy car.
Also, don’t underestimate how little time you’ll now have to look after your car, so don’t buy anything high maintenance or that you’d feel guilt leaving in a dirty state inside and out. As nipper gets older, those moments you had to clean the car, or go for a drive for the sake of it, will feel like a distant memory.
Maserati Quattroporte?
I have owned an M6, M5 and had an RS6 as a courtesy car when my M5 was in the body shop.
The RS6 was extremely capable and very, very large. It was also soulless compared with the BMWs. The gearbox was great though, as was the throttle response.
I read someone saying an M5 is too small for two adults and one child. Is this modern parenting? How much stuff do you have to lug around? My parents had an Austin Maestro when I was a child and managed fine with that!
If it were me, I would be wary of the residuals on any of the above. I might be tempted to chop your MX5, drive your Mini on family days, and pump the rest into an R8 or 997 instead.
God that's cool
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A four door performance car? I do indeed know the drill:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...?atmobcid=soc4
A manual, obviously. But with a young family I’d try to find an estate version.
With the money you save you can afford to put petrol in it, they do like a drink! Hic!
LolControversial opinion…
Change your wife’s Mini for something you both enjoy such as a “warm” SUV (X3 30i/30d or equivalent competitor) and continue to enjoy your MX5!
My company car policy doesn’t allow for a large practical family car, only hatchbacks, so I knocked the Personal Fuel Allowance on the head (saving £120pm) and upgraded the wife’s Golf to an XC60 which I love, and she rather enjoys too. All round win
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In my experience women aren't really in favour of ditching a car they like.
I have an early 2017 M535d estate - 3L twin turbo, 313bhp, sporty flappy paddles etc., huge boot, excellent seats front and rear. Very family.
Best part of 50mpg if driven sedately.
In sport mode and manual I would challenge anyone to lose me on any type of road.
It is an absolute monster. It handles beautifully and it will just keep going
(get rid of the usual run-flat tyres as they make the ride a bit turd - just get a puncture repair kit, as it has no spare)
£20k-odd will sort you out, then you can tune the mx5 with the difference ;)
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Last edited by notenoughwrists; 21st January 2022 at 11:07.
I’d like one of these before they get taxed off the road, absolute torque monster, good as they are standard a solid remap gives you Millenium Falcon hyper space power for not a huge amount of money.
All on the rear tyres though so side window driving at times!
I don't wish to quote anybody here, however, in comparing large 5/6+ seat estate cars with small two-seater cars around a track, I lose interest. If I wanted a track car (that I may have been interested in 20 years ago) I'd have a dedicated track car like an Aerial atom or similar. Comparing track performance for a BMW M5 or Audi RS6 to, for example, an MX5 is meaningless; the MX5 will lose but that's irrelevant. An MX5 is useless as a family car and an RS6 isn't an ideal track car. Similarly, when you want to take to your family for a trip to the west of Scotland or another significant distance let me know what your ideal vehicle will be. That's a rhetorical question by the way.
I’m looking at similar budget and ace but need to factor in a dog. I’m steering towards a 2018-9 S4 Avant for bang for buck.
Can’t afford RS6 :(
Depending on how tall you are, and the driver seat position, I found the A4 short on rear legroom. If that's not an issue then I would suggest the S4 Avant would be a great choice. Also look at the A4 Avant 3.0TDI S-Line as it's seriously quick with all that low-end torque. If you were to go down this route get it remapped (I had the Revo remap) and it's blistering without having to come anywhere close to the red line.
Its a fair point and I did qualify what I was saying, but as many others have said the Audis tend to be fast and capable but rather dull. On the road the characteristics of handling are less pronounced as on track but can often still be evident. As a road car the Audi would be nice I am sure, I personally would still favour something with more flair if going for a big bruiser, such as an AMG estate or BMW, or something smaller and nimbler like a Seat/Golf estate. Just my honest opinion.
RS6 looks gooorgeous! Its design is fantasticSo is the price unfortunately :(
Last edited by Owren; 4th February 2022 at 21:44.
I enjoy driving mine, it’s great fun! I’ve had several Audi’s including an Audi 3.0 v6 Q5, A6 Allroad 3.0 BiTDI - The Golf is much more fun. The new generation of Audi’s are poorly designed in my opinion. The Mrs had the new A4 up until recently - the display screen was like an iPad fixed to the dashboard is just about the worst design I have seen from Audi.
Someone I know bought a lovely one owner low mileage S4 Avant early last year for 17k, by October it was sold as he was offered 23k, used car prices are crazy but hopefully this year they fall back to real world values, just don’t get caught buying high!!
I guess it's relative.
Compared to the Audis you mentioned it is, but some hot hatches are far more enjoyable and my old RX8 was on a different level (even if not as fast, figures don't tell the whole story - A Golf R is nearly as fast as an F40!).
Some cars feel good at 40, the Golf only feels special at speeds that will say goodbye to your licence.
It's a good car, but honestly, I enjoyed driving my old Octavia vRS more.
I agree on the 'iPad bolted to the dashboard look', I hate it. I guess it's easy for manufacturers to upgrade, but for the owner it's no advantage and looks dreadful. VW definitely got that bit right.
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Always a worry!
I’ve seen 2018 S4 avant’s for about £30k. Seems a bargain at that price for the drive?
Thanks all for your various input and opinions on this thread. The discussion did get some cogs whirring in my head and at the very least made me look at some of the cars from a different angle, so to speak, so it's greatly appreciated.
In a rare example of me actually doing what I said I was going to do, I’ve bought a car and it’s already sat on the drive. I moved fast as I became very aware this plan had potential to be on the table long enough for me to find my sensible hat and put it on. There was a lot of choice, so I worked to narrow it down fast. Cutting to the chase, the car I've bought is a 2013 B8 RS4 Avant in Sepang Blue over special order cream leather with blue stitching and lunar headlining. Sports exhaust, silver 20in. “5x twin spoke” wheels, carbon inserts, B&O sound. Only things it doesn't have that I might have preferred were the pano roof and wing back buckets. But having the unique interior and the other components was more important to me, along with the fact this had condition and history in it's favour above many of the others. Notably it doesn't have dynamic steering which if automotive journos are to be believed is diabolical. I think more pragmatic reviews have it as "fine" or "just slightly sub optimal" but either way I don't have it on this car.
I went and looked at an M6 Gran Coupe, an M5, an RS6 Avant, an RS7 and a Panamera before choosing the RS4. There’s clearly some enthusiasts here so for anyone interested - and because I like giving people material to disagree with- here’s some prose about the reasoning behind my choice.
The M5 was dismissed quickly as I simply preferred the silhouette and interior of the M6 GC. Identical powertrain, though yes the M5 was cheaper and a quite a few more out there to choose from, but I would have been happy to pay more for what I felt was a more special car.
The M6 however was dismissed on two fronts - whilst I would say the interior was one of the nicest, the sheer size of the thing for the volume in the rear and boot started to grind on me a little. I partly agree with both camps from earlier in this thread - parenting doesn’t necessarily have to mean carrying four prams and six bikes at all times, but the aperture on the rear of the M6 is kind of annoying and, whilst measured in litres the boot is more than enough, it is a fiddly long and low T-shape. Though some marks were added back on for being able to drop the rear seats unlike the regular M6 coupe - I believe it does take a mountain bike if there's no rear passengers.
The second reason the M6 got dropped is also one of the reasons the RS6 went too - I massively bottled it with maintenance costs of a top end twin turbo powertrain. I did more and more research and whilst I know the horror stories will always float to the top, in real terms there aren’t that many of these cars on the road yet the shocking repair bills are everywhere. No, the RS4 isn’t going to be a budget car, but those twin turbo engines are so highly strung, so cramped to work on, they just seem to breed big bills and big risk. There are very few high mileage M6s out there and I worry it’s not the fuel bills that are preventing the cars getting there but the engine.
The other issue with the RS6 was budget. Whilst on paper I could afford quite a few of them, unfortunately being an apex/halo car now down at “affordable” prices, they have attracted many owners with the means to buy, but not the means or will to maintain. Some of the service histories out there are shocking. I looked at the best one in my budget but left unimpressed by gaps and question marks on the record, slightly odd cheaper choice of tyres on it which rang alarm bells about what else may have been scrimped on. I realised I couldn’t afford a car that met my standards and therefore I couldn’t afford one at all.
The Panamera had my favourite interior of all. A little smaller, but I like the cocooned feeling. I’m only 5’9” and built like a garden rake and my wife said I looked “right” in the Panamera whereas apparently the RS6 looked like I’d borrowed it from a grown upI loved the rear seats being effectively the same as the fronts, and in general it just oozes quality. However, the load space is shallow with the most usable part deep at the rear. I haven’t done any calcs but I am cynical about Porsche’s stated luggage capacity. I believe most manufacturers are measuring luggage space up to the boot liner/parcel shelf but it feels like Porsche’s stated volume must surely be right up to the glass. Perhaps not, and it's all just an optical illusion, but it fell on the wrong side of “I can work with that”. Plus I wanted a GTS and there's very very little choice, regardless of budget.
I looked at an RS7 to see if it solved the Panamera load space issue as to my eye they are a slightly different silhouette but it didn’t. In fact I’d wager there’s huge carry over between the two, show me a generic photo of the two boots and I’m not sure I could tell you the Pana from the RS7. Fortunate really because I don't like the aesthetics of the RS7. I would have looked at an RS5 sport back like I believe Walter did but they're all too new for my budget.
So I arrived at the RS4. Naturally aspirated, fundamentally cheaper to buy, looks sporty enough to my eye (the 20" wheels fill the arches so well). Interior is maybe half a generation older than the RS6 but still very pleasant place to be (though it's taking all my concentration to not touch the multimedia screen). Lots of them to choose from with a relatively short options list meaning many cars were close to my ideal, even with me being fussy about colour/wheel/interior. Also much easier to find an unblemished service record - this particular one is full Audi. I don’t need all the space right now but of course I’ll find uses going forward. One major benefit that I had not anticipated however - four wheel traction. It feels SO stable on greasy roads. I think I’ll be able to dip in to more of the power on a regular basis with greater confidence. On the motorway home (~100 miles) I got around 32mpg, with a few squirts here and there.
So that's that really. Now I just need to decide what to do with the MX-5.
Slightly rubbish first fill up photo:
Love the flared arches. Nice pick
Very nice, like the colour/wheel combo.
Lovely colour combo - enjoy!
That looks a lovely car, and nicely understated.
That is lovely and I highly commend you on going N/A too, I bet the throttle response and noise is awesome
Slightly late as you've already chosen (excellent choice by the way) I have a C43 AMG wagon. I considered the C63 for an extra ~£6k, but as it's my only car I wanted a bit more practicality in terms of ownership costs and fuel economy (40mpg on a recent trip to Paris) so sacrificed some power and noise. Still, I'm very happy with it. It's fairly quick and makes a nice sound. After 8 or so BMW's I'm glad to have something different and I think my next car will be another Mercedes.
Gorgeous colour
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Lovely car and colour. Daytona was my favourite but Sepang came a close 2nd and those wheels are a must for me.
Wouldn't worry about not having the pan roof when you have the cream interior to lighten the cabin-will save any leakage too.
I considered the B8 a few years back and the engine noise from them is quite intoxicating.
Good to see a picture of it in it's natural habitat too.
is that an 812 SF?Slightly late as you've already chosen (excellent choice by the way) I have a C43 AMG wagon. I considered the C63 for an extra ~£6k, but as it's my only car I wanted a bit more practicality in terms of ownership costs and fuel economy (40mpg on a recent trip to Paris) so sacrificed some power and noise. Still, I'm very happy with it. It's fairly quick and makes a nice sound. After 8 or so BMW's I'm glad to have something different and I think my next car will be another Mercedes.
Yes, Giallo Triplo Staccato. Unbelievable when the sun hits it.
Wow what a car. It even looks fast stood still? Is that the weekend car?
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Ha no its not mine it's my uncle's. I just spammed what pictures I had of my car (C43) on here. Sorry for the confusion. It is an immense car though, savagely fast.
What a car to have in the family! I liken it to a modern day F40.
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