closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 47 of 47

Thread: Royal Navy to the Channel?

  1. #1
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    The Far East (of England)
    Posts
    2,679

    Royal Navy to the Channel?

    Will the shots over the bows be landing lines or live ammunition???

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60021252

  2. #2
    'Red Meat' distraction...

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  3. #3
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    3,811
    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    Will the shots over the bows be landing lines or live ammunition???

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60021252
    I think it’s safe to say live ammunition - or indeed any form of ammunition - won’t be used. Desperation stakes from a discredited government playing to the anti-immigrant crowd in the hope of saving The Great Fatsby’s hide. Shameful.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    40,235
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    'Red Meat' distraction...

    R
    I agree mate - 100%.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  5. #5
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    15,003
    Blog Entries
    1
    Do the Royal Navy have any jurisdiction over civillians? Are they allowed to 'engage' civillians? I don't see what they'll bring to the party that the Coast Guard aren't already doing?

  6. #6
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    18,627
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    'Red Meat' distraction...

    R
    Yep, pandering to the masses and distracting from the waste of space that is Boris Johnson!
    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  7. #7
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    26,481
    Populist politics, anti refugees, anti BBC, anti foreigner's, anti green's, anti demonstrations, pro police, pro crackdowns - book burnings on the horizon.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  8. #8
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bury, UK
    Posts
    1,820
    gunboat diplomacy has never worked afaik and shooting at civilians in dinghies isn't what the RN does. perhaps if Priti patel wants a photo op pouring rounds from a gpmg into refugees then she can volunteer immediately

  9. #9
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    796
    It’s a flag waving exercise from a different budget. Let’s the navy have a few days out for a photo shoot before the breakdowns.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  10. #10
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    21.5 km From Moscow
    Posts
    15,765
    This topic is clearly political in nature.

    Why is it in the G&D?
    ______

    ​Jim.

  11. #11
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    2,155
    This all smells a bit fishy, but I see similarities to the Icelandic cod war that the UK lost………

  12. #12
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Last edited by oldoakknives; 18th January 2022 at 12:48.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  13. #13
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    13,137
    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    This topic is clearly political in nature.

    Why is it in the G&D?
    Because it's right-wing politics, not anything to the centre or beyond...

    Like the 'Come back Boris, Britain needs you' posts that go unremarked...

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  14. #14
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hot Tub
    Posts
    2,734
    “Build the wall….build the wall”…

    Oh hang on ….

    All very Punch and Judy… a show to get everyone’s attention whilst the pick pockets operate…

  15. #15
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Cartagena, Spain
    Posts
    17,724
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    “Build the wall….build the wall”…

    Oh hang on ….

    All very Punch and Judy… a show to get everyone’s attention whilst the pick pockets operate…
    lolz very on point, illustrates how far we've regressed/progressed, pov dependent, under the current regime.

  16. #16
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    I wonder what alternative action people would suggest?

    Or are we all in favour of an unlimited open door policy?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  17. #17
    Don't see that it matters who deals with the problem. If the RN has the resources and is available, why not? Not as if they're going to be sinking the dinghies.

  18. #18
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    26,481
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I wonder what alternative action people would suggest?

    Or are we all in favour of an unlimited open door policy?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  19. #19
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    11,731
    Blog Entries
    5
    Take it to the PIT not here so all the usual suspects can get their rocks of there.
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  20. #20
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I wonder what alternative action people would suggest?

    Or are we all in favour of an unlimited open door policy?
    Neither the RN nor the RNLI can do anything about policy: unless they rescue all those they meet in a dinghy and bring them to the UK they will be contravening international law and could be dragged to The Hague for crimes against humanity.

    As Kingstepper said, it’s a good thing the RN uses its resources rather as it will relieve a bit the volunteers.

    At the moment the lack of realistic avenues means that the UK is effectively an open door country as it waled out of the only treaty that allowed it to send those people back. Karma is a bitch.

    So the only way to reduce illegal immigration is paradoxically to increase the access to legal immigration for both political and economic refugees.

    No one should underestimate the desperation, they are in, and the determination those people have to change their circumstances at any cost. Novaxx recent hotel experience showed that some had been there for 9 years…

    Now a genuine question : what is best for a country : to keep those people in hotels or to get them to work and integrate? The current policy to forget about them is not only morally indefensible but also completely counterproductive.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  21. #21
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Populist politics, anti refugees, anti BBC, anti foreigner's, anti green's, anti demonstrations, pro police, pro crackdowns - book burnings on the horizon.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  22. #22
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Neither the RN nor the RNLI can do anything about policy: unless they rescue all those they meet in a dinghy and bring them to the UK they will be contravening international law and could be dragged to The Hague for crimes against humanity.

    As Kingstepper said, it’s a good thing the RN uses its resources rather as it will relieve a bit the volunteers.

    At the moment the lack of realistic avenues means that the UK is effectively an open door country as it waled out of the only treaty that allowed it to send those people back. Karma is a bitch.

    So the only way to reduce illegal immigration is paradoxically to increase the access to legal immigration for both political and economic refugees.

    No one should underestimate the desperation, they are in, and the determination those people have to change their circumstances at any cost. Novaxx recent hotel experience showed that some had been there for 9 years…

    Now a genuine question : what is best for a country : to keep those people in hotels or to get them to work and integrate? The current policy to forget about them is not only morally indefensible but also completely counterproductive.
    It should have been managed offshore in the first place. And a quick turnaround and decision without waiting months. Then perhaps the flow would not have grown to the current unsustainable proportions.

    Yes people live in dire circumstances in other countries. Can we accommodate them all here? Who knows, perhaps we will soon find out. Can we get them to work and integrate, what does history tell us?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  23. #23
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    It should have been managed offshore in the first place. And a quick turnaround and decision without waiting months. Then perhaps the flow would not have grown to the current unsustainable proportions.
    Many things should -and could- have been done better, and this is true for almost all countries, not just the UK. They were not, and we are where we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Yes people live in dire circumstances in other countries. Can we accommodate them all here? Who knows, perhaps we will soon find out. Can we get them to work and integrate, what does history tell us?
    Your first question is not the right one, as it will be a straw man.
    History tells us that without even really trying the UK has done wonders and people from many countries integrated well, and have immensely benefited this Kingdom.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  24. #24
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    26,481
    "Should have been managed offshore" - why?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ml?jwsource=cl
    Last edited by number2; 18th January 2022 at 14:37.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  25. #25
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    "Should have been managed offshore" - why?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ml?jwsource=cl
    Are you inferring anyone suggesting that should be assassinated? Seems like a strange link.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  26. #26
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    26,481
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Are you inferring anyone suggesting that should be assassinated? Seems like a strange link.
    Hahaha no as everyone knows I'm a woke, leftie snowflake, but at last it's nice to see your true colours, enjoy the rest of your day Ian, oh and Happy New year.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  27. #27
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Hahaha no as everyone knows I'm a woke, leftie snowflake, but at last it's nice to see your true colours, enjoy the rest of your day Ian, oh and Happy New year.
    Yes, I oppose an open door policy on immigration, if that's what you mean by 'true colours'.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  28. #28
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Leics
    Posts
    7,115
    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    I think it’s safe to say live ammunition - or indeed any form of ammunition - won’t be used. Desperation stakes from a discredited government playing to the anti-immigrant crowd in the hope of saving The Great Fatsby’s hide. Shameful.
    You've been taken in, I'm afraid. This is an initiative that's been a long time in the making to address a problem that's been an irritant for years. And it was touted quite some time before the BBC started spinning work events as parties, or Civil Service benders as government functions

  29. #29
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    3,811
    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    You've been taken in, I'm afraid. This is an initiative that's been a long time in the making to address a problem that's been an irritant for years. And it was touted quite some time before the BBC started spinning work events as parties, or Civil Service benders as government functions
    You still worshiping at the feet of The Great Fatsby, dear monobrow? Ah, it’s the pesky civil servants to blame for the parties, not your shambling wank puffin of a poster boy. You really are a card. You’re also another four letter word that also happens to start with a c.

  30. #30
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Yes, I oppose an open door policy on immigration, if that's what you mean by 'true colours'.
    There is certainly no open door policy on immigration in this country Ian, so stop chasing that one, please. What we have are refugees, arriving in limited numbers, most of whom would likely be able to claim asylum, many others would be employable and bring their energy to a country that has now unfulfilled employment offers, especially in unqualified or lowly qualified jobs.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    Will the shots over the bows be landing lines or live ammunition???

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60021252
    AFAIK nowhere has it been stated that Royal Navy boats will be involved in this.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  32. #32
    Master spuds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    There is certainly no open door policy on immigration in this country Ian, so stop chasing that one, please. What we have are refugees, arriving in limited numbers, most of whom would likely be able to claim asylum, many others would be employable and bring their energy to a country that has now unfulfilled employment offers, especially in unqualified or lowly qualified jobs.
    I have nothing to add other than my unequivocal agreement with everything you’ve said in this thread.

  33. #33
    Straw men, logical fallacies and false dilemmas...

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  34. #34
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    You still worshiping at the feet of The Great Fatsby, dear monobrow? Ah, it’s the pesky civil servants to blame for the parties, not your shambling wank puffin of a poster boy. You really are a card. You’re also another four letter word that also happens to start with a c.
    Is there really any need for that kind of talk. I mean disagree with someone if you like but is that necessary?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  35. #35
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    There is certainly no open door policy on immigration in this country Ian, so stop chasing that one, please. What we have are refugees, arriving in limited numbers, most of whom would likely be able to claim asylum, many others would be employable and bring their energy to a country that has now unfulfilled employment offers, especially in unqualified or lowly qualified jobs.
    I would call an expected number of 60,000 this year, and 28,000 last year across the channel alone fairly open.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  36. #36
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Compare with numbers arriving every day in one of the UK airports with tourists visa. Those can afford the plane and all they have to do is disappear before their visa expires.
    60,000 is a drop in the ocean, despite the rhetoric.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  37. #37
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Compare with numbers arriving every day in one of the UK airports with tourists visa. Those can afford the plane and all they have to do is disappear before their visa expires.
    60,000 is a drop in the ocean, despite the rhetoric.
    So given that what do you expect the numbers to be in total then?
    Sounds like we need a new town the size of Durham every year to house everyone. Perhaps the greenbelt can accommodate a few more?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  38. #38
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    So given that what do you expect the numbers to be in total then?
    Sounds like we need a new town the size of Durham every year to house everyone. Perhaps the greenbelt can accommodate a few more?
    All I am saying is that until those people are treated for what they are - Human beings first, and refugees second- and as long as they are used as a red rag by a certain part of our politicians for electoral purposes, those willing to charge will continue to be led exactly where said politicians want them.

    This is not the best part of the forum to discuss those things but a parallel was established between the attitude to the migrant "crisis" and another threat to the UK coming from abroad.

    I'll just put the url instead of the proper link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utTKAr8gN4E
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  39. #39
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    All I am saying is that until those people are treated for what they are - Human beings first, and refugees second- and as long as they are used as a red rag by a certain part of our politicians for electoral purposes, those willing to charge will continue to be led exactly where said politicians want them.

    This is not the best part of the forum to discuss those things but a parallel was established between the attitude to the migrant "crisis" and another threat to the UK coming from abroad.

    I'll just put the url instead of the proper link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utTKAr8gN4E
    You're right about treating people as human beings, unfortunately we can't house the world. Most people I know are very generous when it comes to helping those worse off than ourselves, but there is a limit to how much can be done, and those taking advantage of our generosity do little to help the cause. And neither bunch of politicians are helping, those seeking to over exaggerate the situation or those equally trying to pretend it doesn't exist. An honest view is needed but who would give it?

    I didn't watch the whole video sorry. The part I watched was just another hindsight critique and I lost interest.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  40. #40
    Master yumma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chelmsford, UK
    Posts
    2,664
    Not really a G&D discussion is it? Best off in the BP.

  41. #41
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    3,811
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Is there really any need for that kind of talk. I mean disagree with someone if you like but is that necessary?
    My bottom just blew you a kiss.

  42. #42
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    You're right about treating people as human beings, unfortunately we can't house the world. Most people I know are very generous when it comes to helping those worse off than ourselves, but there is a limit to how much can be done, and those taking advantage of our generosity do little to help the cause. And neither bunch of politicians are helping, those seeking to over exaggerate the situation or those equally trying to pretend it doesn't exist. An honest view is needed but who would give it?

    I didn't watch the whole video sorry. The part I watched was just another hindsight critique and I lost interest.
    But no one said the UK should house the world. The UK only receives a fraction of what other comparable countries accept. Again, it is a fallacy.
    Furthermore, the reason they chose the UK is usually because the UK chose their country in a distant or not so distant past, and among other things gave them its language.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  43. #43
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    My bottom just blew you a kiss.
    Sorry not my thing.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  44. #44
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    But no one said the UK should house the world. The UK only receives a fraction of what other comparable countries accept. Again, it is a fallacy.
    Furthermore, the reason they chose the UK is usually because the UK chose their country in a distant or not so distant past, and among other things gave them its language.
    Oh ok, which other countries the same size and population density as the UK are we talking about?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  45. #45
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ashford, Kent
    Posts
    25,841
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Oh ok, which other countries the same size and population density as the UK are we talking about?
    Comparable does not mean identical. Germany and France are usually used as comparable examples for most criteria, and it's easy enough to make the comparison more relevant by looking at proportions, i.e. number of refugees per 100K inhabitants or per 10,000 square kilometres.
    You can add Belgium, Italy, Denmark to expand the trend if you need to.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  46. #46
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Comparable does not mean identical. Germany and France are usually used as comparable examples for most criteria, and it's easy enough to make the comparison more relevant by looking at proportions, i.e. number of refugees per 100K inhabitants or per 10,000 square kilometres.
    You can add Belgium, Italy, Denmark to expand the trend if you need to.
    I see.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  47. #47
    its not like they are going to blow people out of the water , other than providing more room for passengers than an RNLI lifeboat i cant see what sending the navy achieves .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information