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Thread: Rolex Daytona vs Zenith Chronomaster Sport

  1. #1
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Rolex Daytona vs Zenith Chronomaster Sport

    Speaking as an owner of the latter, I found this quite interesting. Not much I'd argue with, actually, although I did find the style of delivery a bit irritating.



    Anyway, even if the Daytona edges it (no surprise really, given that it's one of the all-time greatest chronographs), there's no question that the Chronomaster Sport is a vastly more interesting watch (well, IMO at least ). Buying used, it's a no brainer unless you've got money to launder.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 27th December 2021 at 14:34.

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    Craftsman kinyik's Avatar
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    Not a huge fan of the 3 coloured Subdial iteration, but I could certainly see these Japanese limited editions playing a part of the collection.




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  3. #3
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinyik View Post
    Not a huge fan of the 3 coloured Subdial iteration...
    Well, to be fair the coloured subdials are archetypal Zenith El Primero, so that version misses the mark for me.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 27th December 2021 at 14:35.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Well, to be fair the coloured subdials are archetypal Zenith El Primero, so that version misses the point for me.
    Agree for the a386 but we’re a lot of other el Primero movements without coloured sundials such as a384, a385

  5. #5
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    Agree for the a386 but we’re a lot of other el Primero movements without coloured sundials such as a384, a385
    My point still stands despite the exceptions, and I was hoping that anyone with an interest might actually watch the video, rather than focus on one cosmetic element of one of the watches.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 12th December 2021 at 11:17.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    My point still stands despite the exceptions, and I was hoping that anyone with an interest might actually watch the video, rather than focus on one cosmetic element of one of the watches.
    The watch has been released for nearly a year now, I researched it quite extensively at the time and I was hoping they’d become more widely available, which in due course they still might. I appreciate you’re a little late to the party but Im not going to watch a linked video as a result, I will continue replying to threads.

    And your point doesn’t stand. The A384 pre dates the A386 as the first el Primero movement and whilst I prefer the A386 and appreciate it’s aesthetic quality the A384 is equally as iconic. Over the years there have countless iteration of coloured and non coloured dials.

  7. #7
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    The watch has been released for nearly a year now, I researched it quite extensively at the time and I was hoping they’d become more widely available, which in due course they still might. I appreciate you’re a little late to the party but Im not going to watch a linked video as a result, I will continue replying to threads.

    And your point doesn’t stand. The A384 pre dates the A386 as the first el Primero movement and whilst I prefer the A386 and appreciate it’s aesthetic quality the A384 is equally as iconic. Over the years there have countless iteration of coloured and non coloured dials.
    Good grief.

    Enjoy your Sunday (no need to reply).

  8. #8
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    Buy your Daytona today, use it until you retire and then sell it and expect to be able to buy one of those little beach huts for cash on the coast to enjoy your dotage. In the meantime enjoy the jealousy and admiration you will receive from the WIS fraternity.

  9. #9
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Buy your Daytona today, use it until you retire and then sell it and expect to be able to buy one of those little beach huts for cash on the coast to enjoy your dotage. In the meantime enjoy the jealousy and admiration you will receive from the WIS fraternity.
    Mick, if I could buy one today (and I don't mean from a grey) I absolutely would. It's both a superb watch and a ready-made retirement fund, at RRP at least.

    That point was made in the video, in fact, and which is why - on the used market - the Zenith is by far the better buy.

    Edit: Just to add, it would still be nice if someone could take the time to watch the video before commenting. However, that's beginning to seem somewhat apirational now.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Mick, if I could buy one today (and I don't mean from a grey) I absolutely would. It's both a superb watch and a ready-made retirement fund, at RRP at least.

    That point was made in the video, in fact, and which is why - on the used market - the Zenith is by far the better buy.

    Edit: Just to add, it would still be nice if someone could take the time to watch the video before commenting. However, that's beginning to seem somewhat apirational now.
    You are missing my point, possibly my fault, so I will explain more clearly. The Daytona is good enough for 99.99999% of the population, that is why people are fighting over it. It is also a very good investment, so my point is stump up the cash, buy the Daytona and enjoy it. When you become an old man, like me, you will no longer care about looking cool and then you can either sell it and due to its value having risen to even greater heights, you can treat your yourself to one of those expensive little beach huts on the coat to enjoy your retirement.

    If you buy the Zenith, you won't be able to buy the beach hut if you get my drift.

  11. #11
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    You are missing my point, possibly my fault, so I will explain more clearly. The Daytona is good enough for 99.99999% of the population, that is why people are fighting over it. It is also a very good investment, so my point is stump up the cash, buy the Daytona and enjoy it. When you become an old man, like me, you will no longer care about looking cool and then you can either sell it and due to its value having risen to even greater heights, you can treat your yourself to one of those expensive little beach huts on the coat to enjoy your retirement.

    If you buy the Zenith, you won't be able to buy the beach hut if you get my drift.
    I entirely get your drift. My own point was that nobody would consider it to be a particularly good investment if you've paid £25k+ for it. That's why the Zenith is the better buy on the used market.

    Now, again, the video is primarily about the relative benefits of each, as watches. I'm more interested in thoughts of that nature than of the investment prospects and pretty colours (or otherwise). In fact, forget it - I'll go out on the bike instead

  12. #12
    Of the Daytonas I prefer the earlier 16520 for its 'better' symmetry (and the Zenith movement).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I entirely get your drift. My own point was that nobody would consider it to be a particularly good investment if you've paid £25k+ for it. That's why the Zenith is the better buy on the used market.

    Now, again, the video is primarily about the relative benefits of each, as watches. I'm more interested in thoughts of that nature than of the investment prospects and pretty colours (or otherwise). In fact, forget it - I'll go out on the bike instead
    And whilst you are cycling, have another think about the Daytona. You are one of the more civilised guys around here and I think deep down you are the Rolex type.

  14. #14
    Thanks for the clip. These two will forever be compared.
    I personally find the Zenith more interesting having both a black and a white Daytona.
    The coloured sub dials are a part of the charm. I can see myself getting one soon.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 12th December 2021 at 12:29.

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    Zenith is a no-brainer vs Daytona at currrent used prices. I Like the fact it has a date too which for most will be of more use than the chrono function which is pure style vs practicality. If I was looking to spend current used Daytona money I'd buy a VC overseas chrono all day long instead

  16. #16
    The Chronomaster Sport doesn't really do it for me in terms of aesthetics - I prefer the Daytona out of the two, but aesthetics are completely subjective and down to the individual (ask anyone who has a Graham Chronofighter or Alain Silberstein)

    Do people who buy a Daytona, whether at retail or from a grey dealer, mainly buy it because they love how it looks, i.e. better than other chronos?

    I prefer the Chronomaster Original to either of these. In fact, I think the Zenith I sold here a few months ago is way better in the looks department as well.

  17. #17
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    In the linked video, Tim’s closing comment alludes to originality. Looking at the rather disparate group of watches that I own, they are all original designs, so that seems to be a key consideration for me if I’m thinking about a new acquisition.

    The Daytona is a fine watch that doesn’t really do it for me. I have no interest at grey money, and have no inclination to try and get on an expression of interest. The Zenith is technically very fine, but in terms of styling it’s Daytona-esque, so doesn’t appeal to me, but more than that, originality (or not having it) is a turn off.

    None of that should detract from it being a fine watch, from a high quality brand with a top class movement.

    Dave


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    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    I think the Daytona is small (IMHO), so prefer the Zenith.
    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so”. HHGTTG

  19. #19
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    The fact that the subdials overlap on the Zenith means the watch is oversized for its calibre. So despite the El Primero I would prefer the Daytona of the 2, but would go for the VC Overseas as well for the money if I had that much money burning a hole in my pocket.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #20
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Thanks for the clip. These two will forever be compared.
    I personally find the Zenith more interesting having both a black and a white Daytona.
    The coloured sub dials are a part of the charm. I can see myself getting one soon.
    Actually, I’m with you 100%, Raj. Get one.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Zenith is a no-brainer vs Daytona at currrent used prices. I Like the fact it has a date too which for most will be of more use than the chrono function which is pure style vs practicality. If I was looking to spend current used Daytona money I'd buy a VC overseas chrono all day long instead
    Thats a good shout, and I’m also happy with the date on the Zenith. If both were available from ADs it would be a tough call, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    The Chronomaster Sport doesn't really do it for me in terms of aesthetics - I prefer the Daytona out of the two, but aesthetics are completely subjective and down to the individual (ask anyone who has a Graham Chronofighter or Alain Silberstein)

    Do people who buy a Daytona, whether at retail or from a grey dealer, mainly buy it because they love how it looks, i.e. better than other chronos?

    I prefer the Chronomaster Original to either of these. In fact, I think the Zenith I sold here a few months ago is way better in the looks department as well.
    I prefer the case of the Daytona, the dial of the Zeniths and appreciate both movements equally.

    The Chronomaster Original certainly is a beautiful thing, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    In the linked video, Tim’s closing comment alludes to originality. Looking at the rather disparate group of watches that I own, they are all original designs, so that seems to be a key consideration for me if I’m thinking about a new acquisition.

    The Daytona is a fine watch that doesn’t really do it for me. I have no interest at grey money, and have no inclination to try and get on an expression of interest. The Zenith is technically very fine, but in terms of styling it’s Daytona-esque, so doesn’t appeal to me, but more than that, originality (or not having it) is a turn off.

    None of that should detract from it being a fine watch, from a high quality brand with a top class movement.

    Dave


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    That all makes sense, Dave, in terms of your own thinking. I’m not sure that I’ve consciously thought in terms of originality of design... I may have to ponder that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I think the Daytona is small (IMHO), so prefer the Zenith.
    Yes, but if you had a smaller wrist you’d think the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The fact that the subdials overlap on the Zenith means the watch is oversized for its calibre. So despite the El Primero I would prefer the Daytona of the 2, but would go for the VC Overseas as well for the money if I had that much money burning a hole in my pocket.
    Aside from the fact that the overlapping subdials are a classic Zenith/El Primero design statement, Marc, that doesn’t make sense at all. In any event, 1mm is neither here nor there.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 12th December 2021 at 17:59.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Aside from the fact that the overlapping subdials are a classic Zenith/El Primero design statement, Marc, that doesn’t make sense at all. In any event, 1mm is neither here nor there.
    Really?








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    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Really?
    Yes, despite you finding exceptions. In any event, your comment doesn’t actually make sense in that a case being oversized (which in any event this one isn’t) wouldn’t be cause for subdials to overlap.

    I have no issue with someone not liking overlapping subdials when they’re a design decision, obviously.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, despite you finding exceptions. In any event, your comment doesn’t actually make sense in that a case being oversized (which in any event this one isn’t) wouldn’t be cause for subdials to overlap.
    To avoid smaller subdials (as in my examples above) because the size of the El primero (30mm) would mean a lot of empty space on the rest of the dial.




    But this is taking the thread in a different direction to the one you intended so I'll bow out.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  24. #24
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    To avoid smaller subdials (as in my examples above) because the size of the El primero (30mm) would mean a lot of empty space on the rest of the dial.
    Still makes no sense, Marc, sorry. In any, errr, case, you can see from the date window that the EP movement fits the Chronomaster Sport case so its a non-issue.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 12th December 2021 at 18:47.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Still makes no sense, Marc, sorry. In any, errr, case, you can see from the date window that the EP movement fits the Chronomaster Sport case so its a non-issue.
    You are correct, because they put the tachometer scale on the bezel, thus allowing them to add to the size of the watch overall.
    To illustrate what I mean, this is an example of oversized watch for the caliber and keeping the subdials a normal size



    But again, I am not here to convince you I am right, I explained why I "voted" the way I did.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  26. #26
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You are correct, because they put the tachometer scale on the bezel, thus allowing them to add to the size of the watch overall.
    To illustrate what I mean, this is an example of oversized watch for the caliber and keeping the subdials a normal size...

    But again, I am not here to convince you I am right, I explained why I "voted" the way I did.
    LOLZ. That makes no sense either Marc, and you’re the only person I’ve ever heard suggest that the Zenith case is too big for the movement. There’s a reason for that, I imagine.

    Anyway, enjoy the rest of the evening. I’m still smarting from the F1!

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    Craftsman Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post

    Edit: Just to add, it would still be nice if someone could take the time to watch the video before commenting. However, that's beginning to seem somewhat apirational now.
    Watch a video? Most don't bother reading a post before replying

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Watch a video? Most don't bother reading a post before replying
    Particularly when it’s nigh-on seventeen minutes long.

  29. #29
    @learningtofly the point is that the calibre defines the location of the subdials. Hence Zenith's calibre requires subdials that are close together.

    The aesthetic decision (which works really well imo), was to enlarge and overlap the subdials.

    I can understand the point being made about the case being too big for the calibre because the subdials are closely located with lots of 'space' either side

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  30. #30
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverte View Post
    @learningtofly the point is that the calibre defines the location of the subdials. Hence Zenith's calibre requires subdials that are close together.

    The aesthetic decision (which works really well imo), was to enlarge and overlap the subdials.

    I can understand the point being made about the case being too big for the calibre because the subdials are closely located with lots of 'space' either side

    Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk
    Yes, I understand that subdials are designed in all sorts of sizes, some overlapping and others not; and that certain constraints result from the size and location of the movement components themselves. I also understand how to recognise an oversized case.

    However, this is NOT an example of an oversized case, and there's certainly not "lots of space either side" (no more so than the Daytona, in fact, despite the extra 1mm). It's just Zenith design language - nothing more, nothing less - and you either like it or you don't.

    Last edited by learningtofly; 13th December 2021 at 14:28. Reason: Typo

  31. #31
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Just heard that my Zenith Aftersales contact at LMVH has the bracelet for me, which was ordered from Switzerland a couple of weeks ago. I got a great discount on it (as well as a second free service to add to the one provided with the original sale), as the watch had to go back to the mothership for a warranty service to rectify a marginally creeping sub-dial hand. Now running at +1spd, too, which I'm very pleased with.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 27th December 2021 at 14:33.

  32. #32
    I’d take the zenith
    I’ve owned 4 Daytonas ( though not the ceramic) so I’d happily give the Zenith a go…

  33. #33
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    I’m a big Zenith fan but this just feels like it’s been inspired almost entirely by the latest Daytona.

    I don’t mind ‘inspired by’ when it comes to watches that cost a fraction of what they’re trying to imitate but it just seems zenith are trying to capitalise on the Daytona being impossible to get at RRP.

    To the people who don’t think they copied the Daytona… even if they didn’t copy or imitate elements of it per se, the likeness is there enough for at least most of the people involved in its creation to know what they’re making. Even if they accidentally made something that looks a lot like the Daytona, it still not an excuse.

    Everyone more than 8 feet away is going to think.. “is that a Daytona”

    Hurts the brand IMO.


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  34. #34
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    Looking at the case comparison I think the Daytona comes out on top. I pretty much prefer the Zenith for everything else. (Except residuals, of course!)

  35. #35
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    Zenith for me, just can't justify the perpetual premium on the daytona

  36. #36
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimforthebushes View Post
    I’m a big Zenith fan but this just feels like it’s been inspired almost entirely by the latest Daytona.

    I don’t mind ‘inspired by’ when it comes to watches that cost a fraction of what they’re trying to imitate but it just seems zenith are trying to capitalise on the Daytona being impossible to get at RRP.

    To the people who don’t think they copied the Daytona… even if they didn’t copy or imitate elements of it per se, the likeness is there enough for at least most of the people involved in its creation to know what they’re making. Even if they accidentally made something that looks a lot like the Daytona, it still not an excuse.

    Everyone more than 8 feet away is going to think.. “is that a Daytona”

    Hurts the brand IMO.
    Seems a bit harsh, and I'm sure it doesn't hurt the brand one iota. I suspect you're right in that Zenith are seeking to fill the Daytona void, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Chilli View Post
    Looking at the case comparison I think the Daytona comes out on top. I pretty much prefer the Zenith for everything else. (Except residuals, of course!)
    I think I'd go along with that, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by warhog View Post
    Zenith for me, just can't justify the perpetual premium on the daytona
    Agreed.

  37. #37
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    Wife gave me one for my mba graduation, I find it amazing. Really is..



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    i only have one niggle - from photos the Zenith bezel looks a tad too wide to be perfect to my eyes.

    Of course it might look better in the metal and having said this, I'm unlikely to ever get a Daytona at RRP or at current used prices, therefore the Zenith is pure win to me.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Scepticalist View Post
    i only have one niggle - from photos the Zenith bezel looks a tad too wide to be perfect to my eyes.

    Of course it might look better in the metal and having said this, I'm unlikely to ever get a Daytona at RRP or at current used prices, therefore the Zenith is pure win to me.
    I get what you're saying and it's down to the contrast of black on white dial. Personally think it's more cohesive on the black dial but ymmv.

    I am a new member of the Zenith chronomaster sport gang. I hadn't intended to buy the Zenith, but it bowled me over!

    I also own a daytona (white 116520), though it feels too dressy at times. Anyway happy to have both but in isolation the Zenith is quite a different watch.

    Customary wrist pic


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  40. #40
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I get what you're saying and it's down to the contrast of black on white dial. Personally think it's more cohesive on the black dial but ymmv.

    I am a new member of the Zenith chronomaster sport gang. I hadn't intended to buy the Zenith, but it bowled me over!

    I also own a daytona (white 116520), though it feels too dressy at times. Anyway happy to have both but in isolation the Zenith is quite a different watch.

    Customary wrist pic


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    That’s the ticket. Looks superb on the wrist, really nice. Strap suits it more than the bracelet.

  41. #41
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    That’s the ticket. Looks superb on the wrist, really nice. Strap suits it more than the bracelet.
    They really do suit the strap, actually. LMVH are supplying tne bracelet to me at half the retail price though, so it'll be interesting to wring the changes.

  42. #42
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    They really do suit the strap, actually. LMVH are supplying tne bracelet to me at half the retail price though, so it'll be interesting to wring the changes.
    At half price I’d have it too

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I get what you're saying and it's down to the contrast of black on white dial. Personally think it's more cohesive on the black dial but ymmv.

    I am a new member of the Zenith chronomaster sport gang. I hadn't intended to buy the Zenith, but it bowled me over!

    I also own a daytona (white 116520), though it feels too dressy at times. Anyway happy to have both but in isolation the Zenith is quite a different watch.

    Customary wrist pic


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    Wish I hadn't seen that.
    Looks superb.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    They really do suit the strap, actually. LMVH are supplying tne bracelet to me at half the retail price though, so it'll be interesting to wring the changes.
    How did you snag such a good deal, Tony? I have been contemplating a bracelet for my Zenith Stratos Flyback even though I really enjoy it on the Zenith rubber. Lovely watch BTW!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    At half price I’d have it too
    I’m with you there.
    Looks lovely but I couldn’t pay retail knowing I’d be lucky to see half of that if I had to move it on.
    At half the money RRP it would probably have a waiting list…….. Like a Daytona !


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  46. #46
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    How did you snag such a good deal, Tony? I have been contemplating a bracelet for my Zenith Stratos Flyback even though I really enjoy it on the Zenith rubber. Lovely watch BTW!
    The discounted bracelet (and a free service when needed) was by way of an apology for my watch needing some minor warranty work. COVID and Brexit meant that I didn’t get it back for three months and I was a bit miffed about it.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHG1X View Post
    I’m with you there.
    Looks lovely but I couldn’t pay retail knowing I’d be lucky to see half of that if I had to move it on.
    At half the money RRP it would probably have a waiting list…….. Like a Daytona !


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Not sure a design like that will see anything like that depreciation.
    The 38mm Tricolour El primeros seem to hold Ok and although this ones RRP is fairly high its a serious piece of kit.

  48. #48
    Master mondie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    The discounted bracelet (and a free service when needed) was by way of an apology for my watch needing some minor warranty work. COVID and Brexit meant that I didn’t get it back for three months and I was a bit miffed about it.
    That is great service Tony. I have sent two GS back now for warranty work and got nothing in return, not that I was expecting anything.

  49. #49
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    Does anyone know the price of the OEM strap for these? I wouldn’t purchase on a strap but the option would be nice. IMO Zenith make some of the nicest, most usable straps due to the rubber backing they use.
    TIA

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by phil h View Post
    Does anyone know the price of the OEM strap for these? I wouldn’t purchase on a strap but the option would be nice. IMO Zenith make some of the nicest, most usable straps due to the rubber backing they use.
    TIA
    Jup strap is great! You'd need to factor in deployant buckle cost too though. I think it's cheaper to buy the strap version then purchase bracelet separately.

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