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Thread: Speedmaster Surrexit!

  1. #1

    Speedmaster Surrexit!

    I've promised myself (more: I've promised my wife) that 2022 is the year I am not buying any watches.

    I even signed the tz-uk abstinence pledge!

    But late last year (when watch buying was still allowed) I posted a WTB for a cheap Speedy on another forum. I wasn't hopeful, but you never know.

    A member there got in touch. He had one: a 145.022 from the early 1980s (cal. 861; movement number 4482xxxx).

    It had issues. There were signs of moisture ingress on the rehaut (is that what it's called? Maybe it's the crystal retaining ring? I don't know, anyway it was a bit rusty around the pushers). The seller (an absolute gent; completely honest and open about the condition) also warned me that the dial had no feet.

    But it was cheap.

    Well OK, let's do it!

    The watch arrived on New Year's Eve 2021 (talk about taking it to the line! The letter of the law and all that.)

    It looked good. It ran, the case was unpolished and it even came with a 1171 / 633 bracelet.





    (Seller's pics)



    (On my wrist)

    The next day -- January 1st -- I dropped it and it stopped, dead. Entirely my own stupid fault: carelessness and a New Year's Day hangover.

    I was gutted. I'd had it all of about 20 hours. But I figured it needed a service anyway so off it went.

    My watchmaker fixed the stoppage caused by the droppage (lower balance staff bearing or something) and cleaned the movement (it was a little discoloured from the damp but not corroded; aesthetically poor but mechanically sound.)

    The dial, though, was going to be a problem: it had been glued to the movement.

    Having prised it off he wanted to use those little double-sided sticky pads to reattach. However the pads raise the dial by a mm or less which might not leave enough clearance for one of the chrono sub-register hands (the hour one, I think).

    Hmm.

    Then I remembered a old chap I know nearby who has some Omega parts in a drawer. I was pretty sure I'd seen a Speedmaster dial in there.

    So I called round, explained the situation and he showed me a "step dial" taken off a 145.022 from the early 1970s. As that watch was also a cal. 861 I was hopeful.

    I asked him if he'd sell it to me.

    No, he replied, he wouldn't.

    What he would do is GIVE it to me, for free. Oh, and have a set of tritium hands as well, just in case.

    Off they went to my watchmaker and this is the result:





    To say I am delighted is an understatement.

    I think it's turned out rather well.

    What do you think?

    :-)

  2. #2
    Master
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    I think that is what they call a RESULT!

    Lovely thing.

  3. #3
    Master
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    What a great story, with all the January doom and gloom that was a ray of sunshine.

  4. #4
    Master TheGent's Avatar
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    Fantastic news - and what a great watch!


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  5. #5
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    What a result!
    Lovely watch

  6. #6
    Craftsman Ascalon's Avatar
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    Well, as if the first bit wasn't enough, the second part of the story is proof positive, you are a jammy git :)

    Well wear!

  7. #7
    A great result for you - and an incredibly generous gift from your contact.
    Wear it in good health!


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  8. #8
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Amazing, I think battered Speedys look great, just as a aside, I sold a stepped dial ( just the dial ) like that one on eBay 3 years ago, £780
    Cheers..
    Jase

  9. #9
    Grand Master
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    Welcome to the Holy of Holies:



    I know it's an easy choice, but the Speedmaster still remains one of my favourite watches. Name a box and it ticks it. Of course the CK2287, which has a rather good claim to being the proto Moonwatch, was on Everest in 1953 where it was used to time Pugh's research into oxygen, water and electrolyte consumption while climbing at height that allowed them to optimise all three and get them to the summit. So it's the only family of watches found on Everest in '53 and the Moon in 69. I'm pretty sure that will tickle you and further details are available if you wish.

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    lovely tale and watch rev!

  11. #11
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    Wow, what a result and a great way to start the year!

    You're still allowed to buy straps in your year of watch abstinence, right? Speedies love straps.

  12. #12
    Craftsman DigitalSeb's Avatar
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    I actually read through all of that, what a great story and what a result!!


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  13. #13
    Grand Master
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    Definitely got very lucky there, maybe its karma for some recent good deed!

    Broken dial feet can be repaired without resorting to sticky pads, that’s something I would never do, but it’s a tricky time- consuming job to get it right. Last one I did took two goes, that was on a Seiko mod I unwittingly got drawn into.

    A replacement dial is a better option.......if you can find one. Always puzzles me how dial feet get broken, its a golden rule to take extreme care when removing a dial.

  14. #14
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    A great result! Something you can properly enjoy now.

    I hope you treated the generous chap who donated the dial and hands to something

    Are you moving from Surrey, though? I'm baffled by the word Surrexit (even now I know it's latin - thanks Google - I can't see what it means in the context of this thread...)

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  15. #15
    Master
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    Possibly an autocorrect or typo of resurrect ?

  16. #16
    Thanks all. I'm certainly very happy with how it's turned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post

    Amazing, I think battered Speedys look great, just as a aside, I sold a stepped dial ( just the dial ) like that one on eBay 3 years ago, £780
    Bloody hell. I had no idea. I thought maybe £500, absolute tops. I think I need to go back and offer -- nay, insist -- he accepts something by way of renumeration.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post

    the CK2287, which has a rather good claim to being the proto Moonwatch, was on Everest in 1953 where it was used to time Pugh's research into oxygen, water and electrolyte consumption while climbing at height that allowed them to optimise all three and get them to the summit. So it's the only family of watches found on Everest in '53 and the Moon in 69. I'm pretty sure that will tickle you and further details are available if you wish.
    I remember seeing that in the Smiths First On Everest thread aka Wot, No Rolex?


    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post

    Are you moving from Surrey, though? I'm baffled by the word Surrexit (even now I know it's latin - thanks Google - I can't see what it means in the context of this thread...)

    M
    According to my rusty Church Latin surrexit is "resurrected" but I'm too far down the candle to be sure of that. Doubtless a Papist or Oxford Movement type will be along shortly to correct me!

  17. #17
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Great story and wonderful watch. Congrats. One thing though. The dial stickers you mentioned are much thinner than a millimeter. At least the ones that Cousins sell are. I wonder if your guy realised that there is backing on both sides of the sticky stuff. Still, much better to use the proper feet if available.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    Great story and wonderful watch. Congrats. One thing though. The dial stickers you mentioned are much thinner than a millimeter. At least the ones that Cousins sell are. I wonder if your guy realised that there is backing on both sides of the sticky stuff. Still, much better to use the proper feet if available.
    Yes I wondered about that. I've got some doubled-side tape that is as thin or thinner than sellotape, i.e. functionally negligible. But then perhaps that's too thin?

  19. #19
    A lovely outcome. That is a really lovely watch and all the better for its new backstory!

  20. #20
    Nice find and nicely resurrected. Enjoy.

  21. #21
    Great story and a joy to read!
    All of a sudden feeling like posting a WTB for a cheap speedy for some reason

  22. #22
    Grand Master
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    I don't know about all that, but I reckon I'd go with 'arising'. Based on schoolboy Latin, but I confess undertook the Catholic Certificate in Religious Education as part of a convoluted (and painfully long) challenge back when I was moderating the philosophy section of a secular forum. Much to my amusement, the Bishop who awarded me the Certificate was not terribly secretly having an affair with a friend of one of the other course members and subsequently got (officially) caught.

  23. #23
    Master
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    What an absolute beauty & a brilliant story.

  24. #24
    What with this and the Smiths monopusher I think that, between the two of them, I have everything I need for daily wear: the sapphire and 100m WR of the latter make it great for fishing, DIY etc and things that I wouldn't want to put a vintage Speedmaster through. Both have 20mm lugs so I that makes shopping for straps easy.

    But there'll be no more shopping for watches for at least the next 12 months. Hold me to that!

  25. #25
    Craftsman Caminos's Avatar
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    Very good result, i have to say with a touch (a lot) of good luck.


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  26. #26
    Master
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    That looks lovely and a great story. Well done on the search and the restoration.

  27. #27
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    Great story and wonderful watch. Congrats. One thing though. The dial stickers you mentioned are much thinner than a millimeter. At least the ones that Cousins sell are. I wonder if your guy realised that there is backing on both sides of the sticky stuff. Still, much better to use the proper feet if available.
    Using dial stickers on anything other than a very cheap watch is bodging, there are better alternatives that provide a permanent repair.

  28. #28
    Sometimes life smiles on us....

    Great that a watch that had been sidelined for a while has a fresh life, and brilliant that that spare dial, tucked away for all these years, gets put into use.

    Congrats and top work!

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  29. #29
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Using dial stickers on anything other than a very cheap watch is bodging, there are better alternatives that provide a permanent repair.
    Yes darling :)

  30. #30
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    Yes darling :)
    He has a point though, it seems a cheap bodge for an Omega to me.

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    He has a point though, it seems a cheap bodge for an Omega to me.

    M
    Agreed, but as walker pointed out it's a tricky and time-consuming job to get it right.

    It's one of those simple problems without a simple fix (see also, e.g., stripped or cross-threaded casebacks).

    I think feet can be laser welded back on (?) but I'm guessing that with a chronograph it's important to get the dial to sit as flush to the base as possible due to all the hands: small stems and tiny tubes. A quartz three hander is likely a lot more forgiving of looser tolerances.

  32. #32
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    He has a point though, it seems a cheap bodge for an Omega to me.

    M
    I entirely agree. I just didn't think a lecture was necessary.

  33. #33
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Anyone can walk in a shop and buy a speedy. But it takes patience and guts to get a good looking and well running cheap speedy. Well done.

  34. #34
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Agreed, but as walker pointed out it's a tricky and time-consuming job to get it right.

    It's one of those simple problems without a simple fix (see also, e.g., stripped or cross-threaded casebacks).

    I think feet can be laser welded back on (?) but I'm guessing that with a chronograph it's important to get the dial to sit as flush to the base as possible due to all the hands: small stems and tiny tubes. A quartz three hander is likely a lot more forgiving of looser tolerances.
    I had this problem once and you can get ready made feet that are like flat tacks and can glue on effectively with very little height. Here:

    https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/watch-dial-feet-swiss

    and mount them with this:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Loctite-Concrete-Syringe-25-Millileters-1919325/dp/B00LMNO8NY


    They are easy to fit and work a treat;
    I've never had a problem with dials I've fixed in this way.

    This is handy because the Speedmaster has a slightly busy (and more importantly, intermittently raised) dial side and so if you are very, very careful, especially with the dial foot at about nine o'clock (sand a bit off so you don't foul the spring) there is more than enough clearance to mount the feet without interference and the dial can sit correctly. I can't get anything of mine off photobucket, but if you scroll down here:

    https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/p...2#post-3427214

    There's a picture of a similar 861 and you can see what I mean - you can spot the dial feet holes as they are the only ones that are countersunk.

    I doubt you'd want to change it now, but it's nice to know that it wouldn't be as hard as you expected.
    Last edited by M4tt; 11th January 2022 at 14:50.

  35. #35
    ^^^ Thanks M4tt, that's really helpful.

  36. #36
    Grand Master
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    My pleasure.

  37. #37
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    I entirely agree. I just didn't think a lecture was necessary.
    I`m making a point from as someone who actually does this work, I don`t see how that can be construed as a bloody lecture! I stand by my comment, using double-sided adhesive tape and sticky pads is bodging, I don`t care what you might read to the contrary on U tube! The Seiko modding fraternity might be happy doing this but that doesn`t make it right. What happens when the watch needs servicing? Where does the sticky goo from the tape end up? I`ll tell you, it has to be carefully removed before the mainplate goes into cleaning solution and that's a pain in the arse to do!

    Matt has pointed out exactly the right item to use, but even they can cause the dial to sit fractionally higher which is not desirable, causing a slight misalignment of the movement and crown. Sometimes its a problem, sometimes it isn`t, it all depends on the dial and the top of the mainplate. Provided the repairer is taking full account of this all should be well, there is a device available that allows a small flat countersink to be made in the dial to accommodate the additional thickness of the flat base of the foot, I don`t have one but I can get the same effect using a modified drillbit and a bit of ingenuity. When the movement has a date function the job becomes harder, the date wheel has to be able to move smoothly with sufficient clearance and they usually run very close to the dial feet.

    One of the hardest parts is to get the foot in exactly the correct position, the only reliable way is to mount the feet onto the mainplate using the dial fixing screws then affix the dial to the feet taking care to centralise it correctly. Near enough won't do, it has to be absolutely correct. I`ve used a brand of superglue gel that gives around 12 secs working time and done them one at a time, this worked a treat. Whilst not as good as an original unbroken foot this constitutes an acceptable repair and if I find a dial that's had this treatment I`m OK with it.

    As I said, this is a fiddly laborious procedure. Often the dial feet have to be trimmed and slimmed down a little, working on this scale isn`t easy and it all takes time. This work is best undertaken when the watch is being serviced and fully stripped down, there are a few good reasons why.

    Unfortunately a lot of old watches have been worked on my monkeys in the past carrying out dubious work, clumsiness and lack of care cause dial feet to break.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 11th January 2022 at 15:23.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I`m making a point from as someone who actually does this work, I don`t see how that can be construed as a bloody lecture! I stand by my comment, using double-sided adhesive tape and sticky pads is bodging, I don`t care what you might read to the contrary on U tube! The Seiko modding fraternity might be happy doing this but that doesn`t make it right. What happens when the watch needs servicing? Where does the sticky goo from the tape end up? I`ll tell you, it has to be carefully removed before the mainplate goes into cleaning solution and that's a pain in the arse to do!

    Matt has pointed out exactly the right item to use, but even they can cause the dial to sit fractionally higher which is not desirable, causing a slight misalignment of the movement and crown. Sometimes its a problem, sometimes it isn`t, it all depends on the dial and the top of the mainplate. Provided the repairer is taking full account of this all should be well, there is a device available that allows a small flat countersink to be made in the dial to accommodate the additional thickness of the flat base of the foot, I don`t have one but I can get the same effect using a modified drillbit and a bit of ingenuity. When the movement has a date function the job becomes harder, the date wheel has to be able to move smoothly with sufficient clearance and they usually run very close to the dial feet.

    One of the hardest parts is to get the foot in exactly the correct position, the only reliable way is to mount the feet onto the mainplate using the dial fixing screws then affix the dial to the feet taking care to centralise it correctly. Near enough won't do, it has to be absolutely correct. I`ve used a brand of superglue gel that gives around 12 secs working time and done them one at a time, this worked a treat. Whilst not as good as an original unbroken foot this constitutes an acceptable repair and if I find a dial that's had this treatment I`m OK with it.

    As I said, this is a fiddly laborious procedure. Often the dial feet have to be trimmed and slimmed down a little, working on this scale isn`t easy and it all takes time. This work is best undertaken when the watch is being serviced and fully stripped down, there are a few good reasons why.

    Unfortunately a lot of old watches have been worked on my monkeys in the past carrying out dubious work, clumsiness and lack of care cause dial feet to break.
    In my experience, superglue is very poor at absorbing even the mildest shock loadings and tends to fail. A good metal epoxy always does the trick. I've also found that it's not hard to bodge up a tool that leaves a blob of paint on the dial during mock up construction and allows you to mount the feet at your leisure in exactly the position you want. This also ensures you can get the height they mount at right. Feet rarely mount correctly when pushed all the way in and guessing how far they need to go in when they are detached seems impossible to me.
    Last edited by M4tt; 11th January 2022 at 15:49.

  39. #39
    They do say the devil God looks after his own...

    Lovely story and lovely result!

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  40. #40
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I`m making a point from as someone who actually does this work, I don`t see how that can be construed as a bloody lecture! I stand by my comment, using double-sided adhesive tape and sticky pads is bodging, I don`t care what you might read to the contrary on U tube! The Seiko modding fraternity might be happy doing this but that doesn`t make it right. What happens when the watch needs servicing? Where does the sticky goo from the tape end up? I`ll tell you, it has to be carefully removed before the mainplate goes into cleaning solution and that's a pain in the arse to do!

    Matt has pointed out exactly the right item to use, but even they can cause the dial to sit fractionally higher which is not desirable, causing a slight misalignment of the movement and crown. Sometimes its a problem, sometimes it isn`t, it all depends on the dial and the top of the mainplate. Provided the repairer is taking full account of this all should be well, there is a device available that allows a small flat countersink to be made in the dial to accommodate the additional thickness of the flat base of the foot, I don`t have one but I can get the same effect using a modified drillbit and a bit of ingenuity. When the movement has a date function the job becomes harder, the date wheel has to be able to move smoothly with sufficient clearance and they usually run very close to the dial feet.

    One of the hardest parts is to get the foot in exactly the correct position, the only reliable way is to mount the feet onto the mainplate using the dial fixing screws then affix the dial to the feet taking care to centralise it correctly. Near enough won't do, it has to be absolutely correct. I`ve used a brand of superglue gel that gives around 12 secs working time and done them one at a time, this worked a treat. Whilst not as good as an original unbroken foot this constitutes an acceptable repair and if I find a dial that's had this treatment I`m OK with it.

    As I said, this is a fiddly laborious procedure. Often the dial feet have to be trimmed and slimmed down a little, working on this scale isn`t easy and it all takes time. This work is best undertaken when the watch is being serviced and fully stripped down, there are a few good reasons why.

    Unfortunately a lot of old watches have been worked on my monkeys in the past carrying out dubious work, clumsiness and lack of care cause dial feet to break.
    Thanks for the lecture.

  41. #41
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    Thanks for the lecture.
    Every day’s a school day buddy.....not sure how that translates.

  42. #42
    Master
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    Getting back to the original thread! I'm really happy for you Ollie. You were an absolutely gent when you sold me my first Smiths. I'm glad you had this stroke of good fortune. It's lovely to have a nice story on here.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Getting back to the original thread! I'm really happy for you Ollie. You were an absolutely gent when you sold me my first Smiths. I'm glad you had this stroke of good fortune. It's lovely to have a nice story on here.
    Thanks Gav!

  44. #44
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Great watch and great result with the replacement dial and handset!

    Dial feet can be replaced, it can go wrong (burn the dial) if you’re inexperienced and you have to be accurate but they can be resoldered, here’s a speedy I blogged about a few years ago.

    https://thewatchbloke.co.uk/2015/07/...edmaster-1977/

  45. #45
    Craftsman
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    What a great read and love a story of a resurrected watch, enjoy your speedie


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  46. #46
    Thanks to everyone for your kind and congratulatory words!


    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Great watch and great result with the replacement dial and handset!

    Dial feet can be replaced, it can go wrong (burn the dial) if you’re inexperienced and you have to be accurate but they can be resoldered, here’s a speedy I blogged about a few years ago.

    https://thewatchbloke.co.uk/2015/07/...edmaster-1977/
    That was a good read; great work!

  47. #47
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Every day’s a school day buddy.....not sure how that translates.
    I'm not your buddy. I never suggested that the OP should use dial stickers, I simply pointed out that they were a lot thinner than 1mm. I don't care how knowledgeable you are with watches. You come across as being full of yourself and needlessly aggressive.

  48. #48
    Master TheGent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Great watch and great result with the replacement dial and handset!

    Dial feet can be replaced, it can go wrong (burn the dial) if you’re inexperienced and you have to be accurate but they can be resoldered, here’s a speedy I blogged about a few years ago.

    https://thewatchbloke.co.uk/2015/07/...edmaster-1977/
    Superb work on resoldering the dial feet!


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  49. #49
    Craftsman levkov's Avatar
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    Wow. I recognized this watch in an instant, i was considering buying it in early December last year, when I spotted it at the Brunel Uni watch fair in London. It was humbly hiding at the back of a display. On request, the owner/seller (a very reputable member on another forum) said it had served him as a beater for years, told about all the issues instantly, although couldn't tell the movement serial there and then. Therefore I couldn't make an accurate analysis on what parts were correct to the watch and which weren't, I was a bargain, and despite its obvious shortcomings, it was pretty. The only reason I didn't dig deeper or pulled the trigger was that I didn't have the funds, yet I have caught myself thinking about it for a long time after.
    I love a project and perhaps love fixing broken things even more, so I must say, I couldn't be happier to see how it ended up in a good loving home. Hope you'll enjoy for a long time.


  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by levkov View Post
    Wow. I recognized this watch in an instant, i was considering buying it in early December last year, when I spotted it at the Brunel Uni watch fair in London. It was humbly hiding at the back of a display. On request, the owner/seller (a very reputable member on another forum)

    [....]

    I love a project and perhaps love fixing broken things even more, so I must say, I couldn't be happier to see how it ended up in a good loving home. Hope you'll enjoy for a long time.
    Wow, thanks! And I'm glad that you are pleased it's been repaired and restored, all the more so given that you passed up the chance to do so yourself. I appreciate that, it says a lot about you as a person.

    I certainly intend to enjoy for a long time, God willing.

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