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Thread: 50k to invest , BTL or something else for less hassle?

  1. #1
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    50k to invest , BTL or something else for less hassle?

    Due to an insurance pay out I have about 50 grand to invest and I'm not sure what to do with it. I would appreciate a few tips as I know there are some very financially astute peeps on here.
    I have got a 2 hour session booked with a guy from 'Wealth at Work' who run retirement and finance planning seminars for the company I work for, just that I thought it would be good to ask on here for a bit of prior advice.
    I know the guy will probably try and sell me some product or other but I'm thinking maybe a BTL flat might be a good idea - but the thought of problem tenants is putting me off the idea. If you had a portfolio of say 10 properties then one bad one might be bearable - but if you just have one place and get a bad tenant it could turn into a real headache.

    For background I'm 57, thinking of retiring at 60 and have 33 years in my company pension scheme. The company scheme was v good but has been capped and is now a defined benefit scheme. I recently cleared my mortgage and have no debts..
    I'm in London but would like to move to the Plymouth area when I retire as I have two sisters who live there. I was thinking I could buy a nice flat on a BTL mortgage then move into it a few years down the line. If I sold my house in S London it would clear any mortgage amount left on the BTL and leave me with a lump sum..

    Thanks in advance for hopefully some sound advice / alternative suggestions :)

  2. #2
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    This is the bit where replies range from ĎCoke & Hookersí to the predictable ĎBuy a Rolexí

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    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Maybe look at some of the Vanguard schemes, I have been playing with stocks over the last few years but in comparison I would have probably done better with a Vanguard life strategy and not had the hassle..

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    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Bacon, tomato and lettuce sounds good to me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    This is the bit where replies range from ĎCoke & Hookersí to the predictable ĎBuy a Rolexí
    ha ha, yes, even though I'm not a Rolex fan if I could buy a few at rrp that would be a good shout.. The other option would provide some happy memories for when I'm in the nursing home!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Maybe look at some of the Vanguard schemes, I have been playing with stocks over the last few years but in comparison I would have probably done better with a Vanguard life strategy and not had the hassle..

    Just looking at their site now - seems like a good set up and especially good regarding fees..

  7. #7
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    No idea what the rental market is like in London or indeed Plymouth but BTL differs from most investments in that you are gearing up (assuming there aren't any £50,000 properties there!). That obviously increases both the upside and downside. he prospects of rising interest rates makes things less certain but the continuing mismatch of housing demand and supply will surely prevent any serious price correction.

    Depending on your personal circumstances, £50,000 into a pension could get you an initial fund (with tax relief) of £62,000 to £83,000. Drawdown is then taxable subject to the 25% tax-free cash option.

    Does your company scheme have a reduction applied if you take your benefits at 60 or is that the normal retirement date? If so, there might be some value in putting some or all of the £50,000 into a pension which you could use to "bridge" the period between leaving work and drawing the company pension.

    Good luck, whatever you decide.

  8. #8
    if selling your current house is enough to buy your retirement property and your pension is enough for you to live on i'd spend the money on a few things you would like (new car , holidays etc) rather than give yourself what could be a headache BTL.

    *cocaine hookers and rolex is also a good plan

  9. #9
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Just to throw in an entirely safe and steady option; what about Premium Bonds? Although for me that came secondary to me getting a BTL, just not sure if I would be getting into a BTL at the moment with the Economy teetering on a knife edge. Bonds are safe and steady. Youíd be doing well to pick up any desirable Rolex at RRP from an AD, but if you can, do.

    Good luck OP.

  10. #10
    Craftsman SteveM112's Avatar
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    50k to invest , BTL or something else for less hassle?

    My last employee had a tie in with Wealth at Work .. I attended several approaching retirement seminars..Does your present company offer AVCís.. if so with your planned 3 years of employment left invest the maximum amounts you can afford from your wages and possibly making lump sums and live off of your savings to take full advantage of the taxation benefits of AVCís as there really is such a thing as free money and it was that attendance at the seminars that aimed me in that direction..there is no better investment with zero risk.

    Remember every 1 pound you invest elsewhere has cost you 1 pound plus the income tax and NI...at your current rate

    Every 1 pound you invest in an AVC will cost you 1 pound less income tax and NI..at your current rate..



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by SteveM112; 10th January 2022 at 15:29.

  11. #11
    You have correctly identified the issue with having one BTL (it's either great or a nightmare) and for that reason, I wouldn't recommend it.

    Perhaps needless to say, it comes down to your attitude to risk and reward after that with Premium bonds at one end of the spectrum and cryptocurrencies at the other. If you're looking for a decent income from the money, a couple of things an adviser won't recommend (because there's no money in it for them) are property backed peer to peer lending and investing in funds which back legal actions. Typically returns are between 6% and 10% in these fields.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM112 View Post
    Does your present company offer AVC’s.. if so with your planned 3 years of employment left invest the maximum amounts you can afford from your wages and possibly making lump sums and live off of your savings to take full advantage of the taxation benefits of AVC’s as there really is such a thing as free money and it was that attendance at the seminars that aimed me in that direction..there is no better investment with zero risk.
    That’s a very sweeping statement! AVCs (or any pension contribution) is definitely worth a look but not sure which are risk free.

  13. #13
    Craftsman SteveM112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    That’s a very sweeping statement! AVCs (or any pension contribution) is definitely worth a look but not sure which are risk free.
    Completely risk free there are several options always available to put your money with various degrees of risk and with only 3 years of employment left you would obviously choose the most risk averse option which returns the lowest returns on money you have already made 30%+ returns on.


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  14. #14
    We were in a similar situation around six months ago. We used the iWeb platform and have seen good returns (c.7%) on the funds we invested in a mixture of stocks and Vanugaurd type products. Fingers crossed it will continue to do well as we intend to add to this in the next financial year.

  15. #15
    If you're thinking of retiring in 3 years it 'could' be sensible to chuck as much as possible into an employers or SIPP Pension while you're still earning. If its into a SIPP you'll get the government tax uplift of 20% + any investment growth over the years. I've been using Vanguard for quite a few years and i'd recommend them - i use Life Strategy & FTSE Global All Cap Index Acc Funds, very easy to set up and low fees with good returns.

    I also have a BTL but I will probably sell mine in the next few years, with increased energy efficiency measures needed, a new boiler and probably more taxation & red tape on landlords i just can't be bothered any more.

  16. #16
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    thanks for the all the replies and sensible advice. You have given me some useful steers on what to do..
    I think I would prefer a mix of investments and maximising my pension arrangements compared to dealing with maintenance and people issues in a place 240 miles away if I bought a flat for rent.
    just to answer a few questions asked, Yes my firm does allow avc's & I have been making them since about 2014 after hearing about them on the first Wealth at Work seminar I was on..
    I would be penalised if I took my pension at 60 . I could go on till I'm 65 but not sure if I want to.

    Maybe the adviser will suggest similar but its nice to have an idea beforehand - esp for a financial ignoramus like me..

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry nylon View Post
    I would be penalised if I took my pension at 60 . I could go on till I'm 65 but not sure if I want to.
    If you can get tax relief on the full £50,000 then a SIPP contribution which you draw down until you're 65 may well be a sensible option. (Pension reduction factors for taking benefits early can be quite swingeing.) Obviously, so much rests on your specific circumstances which the IFA will go through

  18. #18
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    It all depends on you. Age, family,risk tolerance etc etc


    Wife,worked high up in a bank, massive pension, soild contributor, AVC the full mashings, wont live long enough to get all the money back, its your money but others telling you how much you can spend. She also has 7 BTL, they are aggro sometimes and this winter she got caught for 2 boiler swaps but she is buying 3 more as we speak. She also has a man, an advisor and he is doing some right returns, efficiently too but thats his speciality. He take % but she thinks its good value.

    I have 3 btl and buying more but im in the trade
    Maxed out on the premium bonds and seeing 25/50 everymonth for the last year
    Spent a huge amount lately on Dateless Reg nos.
    I have rare guns, Pillar boxes and stuff, Gold,
    I dont have an advisor, i like to hold my own money and resent the control of it by outsiders.

    Its an individual thing. but round here in south yorkshire for 50k using mortgage

    2x 3 bed houses, Payments 180/200 pcm each, Rent 650 a house.

  19. #19
    Not singling you out, MCFastybloke, but Christ, no wonder kids can't get on the property ladder.

    Following the thread with interest, but please shoot me if I'm ever part of the problem, not the solution.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qatar-wol View Post
    Not singling you out, MCFastybloke, but Christ, no wonder kids can't get on the property ladder.

    Following the thread with interest, but please shoot me if I'm ever part of the problem, not the solution.

    Nothing to do with the grand for an i phone and designer lablels. I left school with nothing, worked on a building site for a pound an hour in my school shoes till i drew my first wage, I didnt even have my parents home to live in, From my weekly pay of 32 net i gave 15 to my gran for my keep. before i was 18 i saved half the cost of a scruffy terrace house and i borrowed the other half. I worked all week, i worked on the weekend, i cycled to work every day, the most was 15 miles each way on a second hand bike with 3 gears. I spent nothing i dint have to, i still wont spring for starbucks and buy my jeans in matalan. They cant do it cos they have not got the go in them and piss money away on Gotta have it now stuff. I have yet to meet anybody who could not save a pound by being penny wise.

    I meet folk every day earning enough but they cant do the hard yards to save up. I have zero empathy for there cries of bastard investors hoovering up the houses.
    Last edited by MCFastybloke; 10th January 2022 at 18:08.

  21. #21
    Thank you for describing your personality and attitude so clearly, I appreciate it. :)



    (From here - https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-average-wages )

    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    I have zero empathy...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    Nothing to do with the grand for an i phone and designer lablels. I left school with nothing, worked on a building site for a pound an hour in my school shoes till i drew my first wage, I didnt even have my parents home to live in, From my weekly pay of 32 net i gave 15 to my gran for my keep. before i was 18 i saved half the cost of a scruffy terrace house and i borrowed the other half. I worked all week, i worked on the weekend, i cycled to work every day, the most was 15 miles each way on a second hand bike with 3 gears. I spent nothing i dint have to, i still wont spring for starbucks and buy my jeans in matalan. They cant do it cos they have not got the go in them and piss money away on Gotta have it now stuff. I have yet to meet anybody who could not save a pound by being penny wise.

    I meet folk every day earning enough but they cant do the hard yards to save up. I have zero empathy for there cries of bastard investors hoovering up the houses.
    Ahh, theyíre not working hard enoughÖif only someone would tell them!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    Nothing to do with the grand for an i phone and designer lablels. I left school with nothing, worked on a building site for a pound an hour in my school shoes till i drew my first wage, I didnt even have my parents home to live in, From my weekly pay of 32 net i gave 15 to my gran for my keep. before i was 18 i saved half the cost of a scruffy terrace house and i borrowed the other half. I worked all week, i worked on the weekend, i cycled to work every day, the most was 15 miles each way on a second hand bike with 3 gears. I spent nothing i dint have to, i still wont spring for starbucks and buy my jeans in matalan. They cant do it cos they have not got the go in them and piss money away on Gotta have it now stuff. I have yet to meet anybody who could not save a pound by being penny wise.

    I meet folk every day earning enough but they cant do the hard yards to save up. I have zero empathy for there cries of bastard investors hoovering up the houses.
    No.

    You donít have to look too far to find plenty of evidence that house prices, as a multiple of income, are significantly higher now than they were 30 years ago. Combined with high rents driven by investors looking to see a return (you), relative wage stagnation, job insecurity, and rising cost of living means that folk neither have the ability to raise a deposit or secure a mortgage, particularly as a single person.

    But, yes, itís much easier to think of everyone else as lazy and that they should take your lead - you legend.

  24. #24
    I know plenty of people who donít waste grands on iPhones and designer gear but still canít buy a property but I guess itís easy to make sweeping statements from your position.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman LMAO View Post
    No.

    You donít have to look too far to find plenty of evidence that house prices, as a multiple of income, are significantly higher now than they were 30 years ago. Combined with high rents driven by investors looking to see a return (you), relative wage stagnation, job insecurity, and rising cost of living means that folk neither have the ability to raise a deposit or secure a mortgage, particularly as a single person.

    But, yes, itís much easier to think of everyone else as lazy and that they should take your lead - you legend.
    Lol. Good shot.

  26. #26
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    Nothing to do with the grand for an i phone and designer lablels. I left school with nothing, worked on a building site for a pound an hour in my school shoes till i drew my first wage, I didnt even have my parents home to live in, From my weekly pay of 32 net i gave 15 to my gran for my keep. before i was 18 i saved half the cost of a scruffy terrace house and i borrowed the other half. I worked all week, i worked on the weekend, i cycled to work every day, the most was 15 miles each way on a second hand bike with 3 gears. I spent nothing i dint have to, i still wont spring for starbucks and buy my jeans in matalan. They cant do it cos they have not got the go in them and piss money away on Gotta have it now stuff. I have yet to meet anybody who could not save a pound by being penny wise.

    I meet folk every day earning enough but they cant do the hard yards to save up. I have zero empathy for there cries of bastard investors hoovering up the houses.

    Cheers..
    Jase

  27. #27
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFastybloke View Post
    Nothing to do with the grand for an i phone and designer lablels. I left school with nothing, worked on a building site for a pound an hour in my school shoes till i drew my first wage, I didnt even have my parents home to live in, From my weekly pay of 32 net i gave 15 to my gran for my keep. before i was 18 i saved half the cost of a scruffy terrace house and i borrowed the other half. I worked all week, i worked on the weekend, i cycled to work every day, the most was 15 miles each way on a second hand bike with 3 gears. I spent nothing i dint have to, i still wont spring for starbucks and buy my jeans in matalan. They cant do it cos they have not got the go in them and piss money away on Gotta have it now stuff. I have yet to meet anybody who could not save a pound by being penny wise.

    I meet folk every day earning enough but they cant do the hard yards to save up. I have zero empathy for there cries of bastard investors hoovering up the houses.
    Its certainly a contentious subject but I agree, too many young people now feel like life is giving them a hard deal but happily blow money on coffee, gym membership that isn't used, high end phone contracts, labels etc, you simply make of life what you put in.

    I have had flat periods where I have not been able to mentally gee myself up and guess what nothing happens and no money comes in, other times you push on take a chance and generally life financially gets better.

    Average house price now is around £250k, 10% deposit at £25k is doable for someone in their 20's/30's if they get their head down working hard, make some sacrifices and save, I had to do it but it gets you on the ladder.

  28. #28
    Quite a lot of those in their 20ís/30ís will take years to get to 25k with current wages and cost of living.

    The problem in a very nondescript part of North West England Iím seeing is investors paying cash for property 20/30% above asking price just to rent out. Itís leaving those whoíve actually managed to save a deposit very little chance to buy.

    Not sure the Ďget off your arse and work harderí solution has any mileage for these as theyíre already working and saving.

  29. #29
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Floki Inu?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Floki Inu?
    I expected this comment from Raffe,

    Are you going to ape in 1 btc wen coinbase?

    Serious answer to OP if you can tolerate some risk so perhaps not all 50k, look on the back of an old fiddy note. James watt and Mathew Boulton has a good quote. I sell here what all the world desiresÖpower!

    Still relevant today. Buy some shares related to lithium batteries and all the associated metal miners.

  31. #31
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crammage View Post
    Quite a lot of those in their 20ís/30ís will take years to get to 25k with current wages and cost of living.

    The problem in a very nondescript part of North West England Iím seeing is investors paying cash for property 20/30% above asking price just to rent out. Itís leaving those whoíve actually managed to save a deposit very little chance to buy.

    Not sure the Ďget off your arse and work harderí solution has any mileage for these as theyíre already working and saving.
    We're going off subject but I get what your saying about 20/30% over asking as that is happening with higher end property too, I have worked with quite a lot of young people over the years and I find it interesting as the ones who get their heads down, do some overtime and save end up buying a property at a young age, the ones who like spending their wages generally wait a lot longer and moan they cannot get on the property ladder.

    I think the problem for young people now is the temptation of car finance, phones, apps, pressure of vanity and basically lots of other temptations that suck your bank account, also making sacrifices is not what a lot of young people want to do.

    Its difficult for them but I do think if you really want something you'll make it happen..

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Qatar-wol View Post
    Thank you for describing your personality and attitude so clearly, I appreciate it. :)



    (From here - https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-average-wages )

    That's an easy 'shot' to take. However, you might want to consider a couple of things:

    1. The area of the country where he owns property is not one characterised by very high property prices relative to incomes.

    2. There is a high (and unfulfilled) demand for rental property in the area. It has to be supplied by someone. Not everyone wants to be a home owner or is at a stage in their life where it's the best option for them. There is often an underlying assumption that everyone would rather buy than rent. That simply isn't the case.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I find it interesting as the ones who get their heads down, do some overtime and save end up buying a property at a young age, the ones who like spending their wages generally wait a lot longer and moan they cannot get on the property ladder.
    I think you missed the part where mummy and daddy step in with a one of those stick your money in an offset mortgage savings account for 20% of the deposit.
    A few shifts overtime at maccys isnít providing the minimum 10-20grand deposit.

    The current system penalises education. Leave university at 21 get an average job at 25k. Once youíve paid the rent bills, student loans and other associated debts where does said young person find that money.

  34. #34
    If you are asking on a watch forum then you will be better off leaving it in a bank

  35. #35
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    I find these threads very interesting & packed with info but as per normal they go off a tangent?

  36. #36
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    The only attraction in BTL is the ability to borrow to leverage your seed capital.

    No other asset class will offer the same ability for normal people.

    So many use BTL for that very reason. But leverage works in both directions but people expect property to only go in one direct so donít really compute the risk leverage creates.

    BTL is a pita and Iím keen to get out of ours but they do well and finding an alternative asset to replace them isnít obvious.

    In your situation Iíd max the pension and then Stock ISAs.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qatar-wol View Post
    Thank you for describing your personality and attitude so clearly, I appreciate it. :)



    (From here - https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-average-wages )
    That graph needs another line which shows average mortgage payments so you can factor in how the crash in interest rates has changed things.

  38. #38
    Why not retire a little earlier ? money and more money is great but nothing and I mean NOTHING is better than time, you can't buy time so when you have the chance of getting some extra time take it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Why not retire a little earlier ? money and more money is great but nothing and I mean NOTHING is better than time, you can't buy time so when you have the chance of getting some extra time take it.
    This is actually the best response.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    That's an easy 'shot' to take. However, you might want to consider a couple of things:

    1. The area of the country where he owns property is not one characterised by very high property prices relative to incomes.

    2. There is a high (and unfulfilled) demand for rental property in the area. It has to be supplied by someone. Not everyone wants to be a home owner or is at a stage in their life where it's the best option for them. There is often an underlying assumption that everyone would rather buy than rent. That simply isn't the case.
    I think you make some interesting points and thank you for contributing to the debate, rather than flinging poo!

    1. Sure, it's better than many areas. This is an interesting resource - https://www.ybs.co.uk/mortgages/guid...ity/index.html

    It lists the price of an average house indexed to the local average salary so picking a random district, Kirklees, we see that the average house is 5.4 times the average salary. Not too shabby, and I think I'm probably skewed by living in Warwick, where the number is 8.9.



    Still, not great, when a 90% mortgage requires saving nearly 6 months of gross earnings - not net, but gross.

    2. I would like to see citations and references for that, please.

  41. #41
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    I think you missed the part where mummy and daddy step in with a one of those stick your money in an offset mortgage savings account for 20% of the deposit.
    A few shifts overtime at maccys isnít providing the minimum 10-20grand deposit.

    The current system penalises education. Leave university at 21 get an average job at 25k. Once youíve paid the rent bills, student loans and other associated debts where does said young person find that money.
    Well we all see opportunities differently, yes working at Maccy Ds isn't the best career move to start off a mortgage but we also live in an age where its far easier to earn extra money in a very passive way, the amount of online opportunities is vast and open to everyone.

    Education does hold you back in regards to property, a neighbour has just turned 30 and his house is worth about £500k, I think its his third property, he works hard for himself while refurbishing the house most nights and weekends.

    He told me his friends who went to Uni are now complaining they cannot buy a property and are generally on less money than he is, yes they have an education but in his case they are around 10 years behind, its a trade off between a good career that starts later in life or get out there earning decent money at an early age and buy a property..

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Why not retire a little earlier ? money and more money is great but nothing and I mean NOTHING is better than time, you can't buy time so when you have the chance of getting some extra time take it.
    Here here

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Why not retire a little earlier?
    Gets my vote

  44. #44
    What yield would you be comfortable with? I buy lock up garages and rent them out. I have some garages that Iíve bought for £8k each that rent for £160 a month so circa 22% yield and Iím just buying a pair now for £50k which will rent for circa £160/£180 each per month so about 8%. Still property and they still achieve capital growth. Niche market and you meet some interesting people. Iím London based. (Oh and no stamp duty, second home tax etc etc)

  45. #45
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Why not retire a little earlier ?
    That's what I did. OP - consider your monthly outgoings, lets say 3K/month or 36K/annum so at your burn rate then 50K would cover you perhaps 1 1/2 years. Could you use that to live off until 60 - have you had a quote from your DB scheme for expected penalty if you start drawing at 60? What is your expected retirement age - it can get quite heavy deduction if say it was 65... or live off your DC pension until 65. It really depends on your circumstances.

    Gratuitous beach shot from last week - live the dream!!

    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 10th January 2022 at 22:18.
    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly soĒ. HHGTTG

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Qatar-wol View Post
    I think you make some interesting points and thank you for contributing to the debate, rather than flinging poo!

    1. Sure, it's better than many areas. This is an interesting resource - https://www.ybs.co.uk/mortgages/guid...ity/index.html

    It lists the price of an average house indexed to the local average salary so picking a random district, Kirklees, we see that the average house is 5.4 times the average salary. Not too shabby, and I think I'm probably skewed by living in Warwick, where the number is 8.9.



    Still, not great, when a 90% mortgage requires saving nearly 6 months of gross earnings - not net, but gross.

    2. I would like to see citations and references for that, please.

    Are you doubting that some people, because of circumstances or personal preference, would rather rent a property than buy one? Or are you doubting that there is an excess of demand over supply in the rental sector in that area? Or both?

  47. #47
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qatar-wol View Post
    I think you make some interesting points and thank you for contributing to the debate, rather than flinging poo!

    1. Sure, it's better than many areas. This is an interesting resource - https://www.ybs.co.uk/mortgages/guid...ity/index.html
    Really interesting link. 13.7 here. Ouch.

  48. #48
    Master brigant's Avatar
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    Weslyan investment isa has done very well for my wife and I this last year.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    The only attraction in BTL is the ability to borrow to leverage your seed capital.

    No other asset class will offer the same ability for normal people.

    So many use BTL for that very reason. But leverage works in both directions but people expect property to only go in one direct so donít really compute the risk leverage creates.

    BTL is a pita and Iím keen to get out of ours but they do well and finding an alternative asset to replace them isnít obvious.

    In your situation Iíd max the pension and then Stock ISAs.
    This.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    That graph needs another line which shows average mortgage payments so you can factor in how the crash in interest rates has changed things.
    And this.

    You beat to to both of those, and said it more eloquently than I would have done.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    Are you doubting that some people, because of circumstances or personal preference, would rather rent a property than buy one? Or are you doubting that there is an excess of demand over supply in the rental sector in that area? Or both?
    Do you have a comment on my evidence that parts of Yorkshire are running at an affordability ratio of 5-6? And that those numbers mean that someone earning the average salary needs to save six months of gross in order to afford a 10% deposit?

    I'm not doubting for an instance that some people would prefer to rent. What I am asking you to do is to back up your assertation that "There is a high (and unfulfilled) demand for rental property in the area." You suggest that there is something about Yorkshire (and/or similar counties) that means a greater proportion of the national average would prefer to rent. Do you have anything at all to back that up? Or is that... what? Instinct? Gut feeling?

    I'm not generalising about the White Rose population at all - I'm just wondering why you are.

    In your second point, you say,

    2. There is a high (and unfulfilled) demand for rental property in the area. It has to be supplied by someone. Not everyone wants to be a homeowner or is at a stage in their life where it's the best option for them. There is often an underlying assumption that everyone would rather buy than rent.
    I suggest that the demand for rental property is driven by the lack of affordable houses available to purchase. You suggest that some people would rather rent than buy. I suggest that those people are forced to rent (thereby increasing the demand for rental properties) by the price of property, and that the price of property is driven up by parasitic landlords who make money from the labour of others. I think that's a reasonable supply/demand situation.

    A solution to your points in your point two would be to release properties from the ownership of landlords and return them to the market, increasing the supply, and lowering the price.

    But... you know. That won't happen.

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