I see your point, but Rolex are the brand that are most widely copied/faked/hommaged, due to the brand being desired or admired widely by people who normally take little or notice of watches (ie the General Public!). In their heyday, TAG were widely copied/faked. Breitling are as well. Panerai have, I think, a lower profile outside the WIS, so probably are less faked.Originally Posted by TomGW
I have no experience of sending fakes to RSC and I simply stated UK law - If they seize it it's theft and if they destroy it it's criminal damage. It's really not that complicated.
Counterfeit items being offered for sale yes. If it's an item in an individuals possession then no, at least in the UK.
People will fake anything! Even fakes. You'd only want a genuine one, wouldn't you?
Imagine you'd paid out a few hundred for a super-replica, only to find out it was a simple fake!
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Technically correct. There is intent to permanently deprive so yeah, theft. Equally correct on criminal damage. But who is going to prosecute? I can't believe the CPS would take it to court even if you did manage to convince the Police that it was not a civil matter (it is also a civil matter.)
You could bring a private prosecution, but I believe the CPS now have the authority to stop a private prosecution, or to take it over and end it.
You could also sue of course.
If you did manage to get the case ino a court room I'm nott sure how the courts would react, major manufacturer fails to return an faked item that is in breach of copyright laws...
Agreed, it is not illegal to own counterfeit goods in the UK. The same is not true in France.
If you were sending your 'Rolex' to RSC I would imagine you would be under the impression it was genuine so the destruction of evidence would likely not be evidence of a fake per se but evidence of being fraudulently sold a fake watch.
That would be my take on it anyway - destruction of evidence that I had be defrauded. Not that I'd be daft enough to buy a Rolex (or any other heavily faked watch) without iron clad guarantees it was genuine.
Exactly!
I can’t imagine why anybody would knowingly send a fake to Rolex for any reason.
Surely if the buyer is to have any recourse with whoever sold them the watch they’d need it back in as sold condition
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I was in St. James a few months ago when a dealers runner was dropping in a couple of watches for service.
If you're familiar with the new set-up, the Rolex technician comes out and discusses your watch with you on the couches or at a desk, which doesn't leave much privacy. The first watch was returned as one of the digits of the serial number had been altered. The technician didn't hypnotise why, but just explained that Rolex couldn't service as the watch the serial number had been altered, and it was returned to the runner. The technician then said he'd go back and take a look at the other watch.
He return pretty quickly, and explained that that too could not be serviced as the serial number did not match any serial number in the Rolex database. The runner questioned if it was fake, but the technician diplomatically just reiterated his initial response, and the watch was returned.
The watch was a hot model that is known to have high-grade fakes, so that's how interpreted the exchange - but the watch was returned to the runner/owner/dealer without Rolex confiscating, destroying or investigating any further. I felt bad for the poor runner, as it was an embarrassing situation to be placed in, and then having to return to his boss and explain what happened.
Last edited by stelmo01; 15th December 2021 at 13:55.
Some nice replica dials from the DJ today.
Looks like a 5 year old has been let lose with a marker pen.
Does look like the first lesson of a senior citizens calligraphy class..
The numbers are correctly presented, the sizing is questionable.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
As in the DJ who doesn’t deal in fakes, and the same DJ with a ‘genuine’ business?Some nice replica dials from the DJ today.
Am amazed we have not overrun the enquiries for the ‘legit’ side of the business to the point he cannot keep up.
There are currently two (afaik) 'homages' on sc just now. To me the only difference being there is no trademark name on the dial. Or am I being cynical.
That difference is essential
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
No, I’d call them copies.
Just saw this elsewhere, and thought it was in interesting take on the relica v homage debate (if there is one... it's a good attempt at making a distinction between the two, anyway):
An homage has been executed successfully when its existence brings appreciation to the original, when it has the ability to influence in its wearer a sense of yearning for the source of inspiration. Replicas strive to achieve the complete opposite goal. The main appeal driving the existence of replicas is that the individual can “beat” the system by completely bypassing the market cost of the authentic watch, and still be able to enjoy all the perceived benefits that is attached with the real thing. Ultimately, those that live by this notion are missing out a great deal on this whole hobby of watch collecting/hunting.
Let's take a look at the crux of this discussion and try to understand the real issue.
So it's only the people who own the genuine item that are upset by fakes etc since those owning the fakes seem quite happy with them.
The question is raised, why are the genuine owners so upset?
Fakes make no difference to the genuine owner. They don't affect their ownership, nor do they influence the value of the genuine item.
Is it that their ego is hurt to think that someone else didn't pay the full price?
But then the buyer of a fake is not getting the genuine item, so what's the problem?
Fakes are illegal, that is grated, but do we get this upset when we hear someone has broken the speed limit? If someone is trying to sell a fake as an original then that is legally and morally wrong. But if a fake is sold as a fake, is this really such a problem for everyone else? If someone chooses to break the law then why are we so bothered?
Discuss.
Well, to begin with there's a flaw in your premise. You identify two cohorts - those who own the original, and those who wear fakes thereof. However, the vast majority with an opinion on the matter will fall in neither of those two camps.
With that in mind, do you still think it's just a question of bruised egos?
Yep, the very same. Very much loves dealing in the grey, certainly not a straight down the line kind of guy.
If, as you suggest, the majority don't own either a fake or a genuine, what is the reason to get so upset? It simply isn't logical. Please enlighten me.
Last edited by Tiny; 18th December 2021 at 15:54.
You know what Tony - spot on -this post should really be the end of the thread.
That is a logical fallacy, as such it is neither the crux of the discussion nor the real issue.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
You simply need to read the whole thread rather than arrive at the end of it with a summary that ignores all that went before.
Fakes are criminal and support other criminal enterprise, they attempt to be what they are not, and they are unsupported by their manufactuer seller and the watch service industry. Thats 3 points (already made) that you've ignored, and there are more.
I didn't ignore those points. See post 317. I did also read the whole string.
Who makes the fakes? Particularly some of the 'best', most accurate ones. The manufacturing must be as complicated and painstaking as the originals they copy. Also makes me wonder if they employ disgruntled and/or unscrupulous major high-end ex-employees. Industrial espionage may also play a part.
These are very good points. Some of these fakes are works of art with high levels of craftsmanship and quality materials.
Yet not good enough to sell without fakery?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
They may look like it, but are they actually as good? No chance. Why would they, they don't stand behind their product
I have a personal aversion to any post that ends with "Discuss".I believe your points have already been addressed, in the previous 316 posts to this thread.
Last edited by Halitosis; 19th December 2021 at 20:22. Reason: toned down my frustration - born of a completely unrelated incident
Lol. I share this aversion. Also any post that begins with -So,….
Why is this load of old b@ll@cks still rolling on?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
So,
Discuss.
Haha!
Without fault the vast majority of the so called "super clones" are Chinese operating from Chinese factories.
I don't think we don't need to go into full industrial espionage territory to understand that despite the mind numbing prices some people are paying, the watches themselves are quite pedestrian and can be replicated by some dude in a sweatshop, hell, one of the telling signs to spot a fake submariner is that the laser engraved Rolex coronet on the crystal is perfectly crisp on the fake, and shaky on the original.
Movement decoration is another big one, an Omega or Patek replica can be easily spotted with a magnifying glass because the decoration will be shit, meanwhile non Daytona calibres can be replicated to a T.
For me the biggest take of replicas is realizing that indeed sometimes the emperor has no pants and it's over priced.
Because people keep posting on it! Including you!!!
I think it's become a sticky. Never seems to go away. :)
Yaaaawn.
hah. Good point
If the good citizens of this world had enough self respect not to wear this trash, the subject would simply erode into dust.
not sure if the movie has the genuine statement from Aldo Gucci who had great toleration for counterfeit Gucci..
Discuss........
Homage watch, I have no issues with them and own some myself. It’s styled like a submariner but isn’t claiming to be a Rolex.
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It has copied every single design facet of a submariner - those are sold to people who want to appear that they own a classic Sub.
Blatant profiteering on the back of a successful design.
Yes, I'd say it's a copy.
I could live with that though. The design is old enough to be in the public domain had it been possible to register it, and not even a Mercedes hand.
And I don’t believe it would fool many into thinking it’s a Rolex.
I still prefer my 5 digits, mind.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Nothing to discuss, it isn’t a fake.Discuss........
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
From 2 meters away it would probably fool 99% of even the WIS crowd…
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I have the opportunity to check the weight of the models mentioned above (the fake and the original) and it was incredible, both have the same exactly weight: 203 grams.
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From 2 metres away a lot of sport watches with a black dial would fool 99% of people into thinking it’s a Rolex. If only because it’s the first watch name that springs to the mind of most.
What are your thoughts on Eddie’s watches, like the Everest? Do you think it is made to deceive and fool WIS into thinking they have an Explorer?
Ginault has nowhere near the horological credentials that Eddie has built, but again if it doesn’t say Rolex it’s not a fake.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I wouldn't take my post too seriously!
M
Last edited by stix; 28th December 2021 at 15:08.
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