There are multiple signs that he is lying about his Covid infection in October.Originally Posted by Ivan Drago
He was attending public meetings, without a mask, both on the day that he claims he tested positive as well as the following day. Also, the deadline for filing exceptions for his Australia via was 10 October. How did he managed to file an exception a week before he tested positive?
And to the best of my knowledge, the quote from the BBC guy is from a time before Djokovic claimed the infection, so he couldn't have known that.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I think what isn't sitting right is the fact that he is an anti vaxxer but wants to defend his titles, live his life normally while everybody else (mostly) has played their part in the vaccine program which has allowed the like of the Aussie Open to go ahead.
So what if he has had CV and deems himself no risk due to anti bodies, Novak is coming across as a selfish prima donna who cares about no one else other than himself..
I am still waiting for the source for that information, if you please?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
How can that be true when people like Sir Keir Starmer has developed Covid twice in the last few months alone?
Whilst a previous infection seems to leave you with antibodies, turns out theyre quite short lived, and it doesnt mean you arent a risk to others especially if you assume youre now immune and carry on going about your life like you cant spread it.
The latter point applies to vaccinated people as well, to be fair.
https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/...a-00505601089b
Page 24 and I said overweight ie those who have a BMI over 25 which is actually 79% and 50% with BMI over 30 (obese)
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html
Will be a big difference in risk between being just overweight (which with BMI is very easy as it doesnt account for muscle mass) and obese!
So while you have proved your quote it doesnt relate to the points on risk which were focused on obesity!
But we can continue to split hairs if you wish?
Other point is he isnt any risk of spreading the virus for at least the next 6-9 months due to him just recovering from covid.
My niece is on round 2 of covid 5 months after the first,
My partner knows somebody on round 3!
The marginal risk factor being obese (and not overweight), I count 50% of patients in the BMI > 30 population.
I also see that the patients are 62% male and 38% female (I told you that being male is a much higher risk than obesity, didn't I?) and predominately white. Now let me think, what was it again that male white elder people have in common? Oh right, they tend to be overweight and even obese.
If we only had an age- and sex-matched comparison of the general population versus ICU population.... Oh wait, here it is (page 31 of the pdf you shared):
...which would confirm that obesity is a risk factor, albeit only a marginal one. QED.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
In other news, a class mate of my daughter tested positive during their in-class daily lateral flow test on Friday. We were supplied test kits so we can test her daily even during the weekend.
Unfortunately she seems to be developing symptoms, even if the tests came back negative both yesterday and earlier today. Hmmm.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
We are in a similar position with our daughter having 2 close class mates being positive and confirmed by PCR on Friday. However, so far so good, no symptoms and negative tests.
Not an expert by any means and I talked about overweight not obese but many experts seem to imply it is a bit more than a marginal factor.The marginal risk factor being obese (and not overweight), I count 50% of patients in the BMI > 30 population.
I also see that the patients are 62% male and 38% female (I told you that being male is a much higher risk than obesity, didn't I?) and predominately white. Now let me think, what was it again that male white elder people have in common? Oh right, they tend to be overweight and even obese.
If we only had an age- and sex-matched comparison of the general population versus ICU population.... Oh wait, here it is (page 31 of the pdf you shared):
...which would confirm that obesity is a risk factor, albeit only a marginal one. QED.
https://immunityageing.biomedcentral...79-020-00212-x
That's a study from 2020.
I have quoted real data from a few weeks ago.
By all means, go on.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...933?via%3Dihub
Published three days ago
https://bmcendocrdisord.biomedcentra...02-021-00912-5
Conclusions
Medical ward patients with severe obesity have a lower risk for mortality compared to patients with normal BMI. However, this does not apply during COVID-19, where obesity was a leading risk factor for mortality in the medical wards. It is important for the internal medicine physician to understand the intricacies of the association between obesity and medical ward mortality.
What BMI do you think severe obesity is, 27, 30, 35, 40 or 45+?
I would recommend you just agree that obesity is a risk factor for more severe outcomes with COVID 19. Arguing over the degree of risk is childish and ridiculous especially as the data is very clear!
Last edited by paw3001; 9th January 2022 at 22:58.
Already posted my link that obesity is a BMI over 30 (which 50% in ICU are) Overweight is over 25 (which 79% are) What is “************” about that.
Unfortunately Raffe is always right so I’ll bow out now as “overweight” is clearly more than a marginal factor in the extent of Covid severity.
Last edited by craig1912; 9th January 2022 at 23:25.
Because my question was what BMI is classed as severe obesity as that was the only classification that showed a statistical increase in risk in the case study report you linked to! Severe obesity is greater than 40. All BMIs below this classification show no statistical increase in risk, that includes your overweight patients BMI 25-30 and your obese patients BMI 30-40.
Therefore, being over weight or obese is not a leading risk factor. It is marginal at best whereas severe obesity does exhibit an increased risk. It would help if you read and understood the links you share as definitions are very important in healthcare and chopping and changing terminology leads to confusion and the types of argument you have had with Raffe all bloody day!
Personally, you are both right to a degree, severe obesity is a risk factor, being obese may marginally increase your risk. Just being overweight is unlikely to be a risk factor.
I think you guys can stop arguing semantics now!
PS. I have noticed we are in the G&D and no swearing is allowing. I would ask that you edit your post and my quote to remove the language as I have done. Thank you.
Last edited by paw3001; 10th January 2022 at 07:55.
The chance of reinfection within 9 months is 1.5% and that includes false positives .
Its almost certain youre partners friend has tested positive 3 times but hasnt had covid 3 times.
The latest data states its 9 months currently for natural immunity to fade.
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Better tell her quickly, I bet that will be a huge relief for her.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Ill also bow out of the covid conversation, enjoyed the debate.
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Goodnight raffe.
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So now the data is tip top and locked in. You are making some mighty big assumptions there!
You do realise that these dates you are throwing around are not hard and fast! They are mid points in a normal distribution curve. So someones protection may fade faster than someones elses and equally someones can remain longer!
The data is not terribly robust as natural immunity has also been shown to fade after 3 months. So stop cherry picking to suit your position.
Last edited by paw3001; 9th January 2022 at 23:59.
It isn't, unlike high blood pressure.
Ramipril saves lives. Vaccines save lives. You should be happy we have science that brings you these life savers.
Night night.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
As an aside my BMI this evening was exactly 40 so I'm sorting this out ASAFP from tomorrow.
Is this pig wrestling still going on?
Quite, 1375 posts plus the BP Covid thread and there must be some sore fingers out there.
Will all come to an end soon anyway, test kits stopping, vaccines stopping and just being told to get on with it and live with CV19 like its the flu..
Unless Deltacron turns out to be a bad variant!!
Last edited by murkeywaters; 10th January 2022 at 01:17.
Thats your sign to get on the list for a Deep Sea and join the club
That or a Breitling Super Avenger!
I hope you mean this.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Its not, its a mistake.
But you asked for the source supporting the claim that 75% in ICU were overweight, which has clearly been provided.The marginal risk factor being obese (and not overweight), I count 50% of patients in the BMI > 30 population.
I also see that the patients are 62% male and 38% female (I told you that being male is a much higher risk than obesity, didn't I?) and predominately white. Now let me think, what was it again that male white elder people have in common? Oh right, they tend to be overweight and even obese.
If we only had an age- and sex-matched comparison of the general population versus ICU population.... Oh wait, here it is (page 31 of the pdf you shared):
...which would confirm that obesity is a risk factor, albeit only a marginal one. QED.
Once again, you can't have it both ways. Your figures are indisputable, anything you don't like you want to ignore.
I suspect if you hunt hard enough you can find figures from somewhere that support more or less anything!
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Yes it has been provided, I haven't said the contrary?
But his original claim was that being overweight was a substantial risk factor, which has been debunked a couple of times by me and others but he keeps going on about it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
If there are no 4th jabs does that mean we will all be basically walking around unvaccinated in a month or two?
Thats what a professor on the news suggested, Covid is now weakened so should to be treated like the flu or a bad cold, no more testing and no more vaccinations - get on with it!!
No because the unvaccinated have a naive immune system and somebody triple jabbed has significantly more protection from hospitalisation and severe disease, even if the antibody protection from catching covid wanes the T and B cells/memory cells remain as a primer for an immune response should it encounter the virus.
Plus those that have had a previous covid infection or vaccination plus infection will always be better prepared for a subsequent infection.
this graphic gives an idea of the levels of vaccination/protection of the population its a few weeks old though but it gives you some idea.
“no more testing and no more vaccinations”
never going to happen, we will end up having boosters yearly for both flu/latest covid variant given to school kids and the over 50’s plus anyone else who wants it.
Last edited by MrSmith; 10th January 2022 at 21:07.
No.
We will have a protection that is slowly decaying. Think of a house that needs repainting every once in a while.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
^^
Cheers, that makes sense 👍
Just the same as the unvaccinated who have had covid and subsequently have antibodies. 👍
Not really. Vaccinations are specifically designed to target particular epitopes. The infected immune response is a damned sight more arbitrary and according to research from last year broadly half as effective. In addition 5% of folks clear the virus without detectable specialised T cell response.
It's not just about paint fading, it's also about weather that adapts to your paint to get past it. This strains the analogy, but that's life. But yes, give it a long enough gap and you will have an effectively naive immune response - it's not as if we haven't encountered betacoronaviruses before.
Or (slightly tongue in cheek) a cold
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/2330...otect-against/
Yep.
A thin layer of water-based paint in the rain.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
So for you skeptics have a read on the UKs ZOE data on the subject:
https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/do-i-...-ive-had-covid
We found that two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine gave 71% protection against infection, increasing to 90% for people who had previously tested positive for COVID-19.
Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine provided 87% protection, which went up to 95% for people who had already been infected with the virus.
By contrast, having had COVID-19 without being vaccinated only gave 65% protection against catching it again.
So just accept that you are going against the data and are misinformed on your position.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Got to love that guy.
Hmm, not panning out quite the way the doom mongers predicted is it.
Oh someone has come to stir the pot but provides nothing that adds to the conversation.
How unusual!
Just the same as somebody who thought they understood and now understands less.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
For those who are genuinely interested in the effect of vaccines. Anti-vaxxers may want to skip it, it isn't for you.
More data from Alberta:
The hospitalization rate among 3x-vaccinated 80+ year olds is lower than the hospitalization rate among unvaccinated 12-29-year-olds.
https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/14...jBnE7odfiwQTwQ
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
No, as this article states - "time for a proper public inquiry to look into how these Sage scenarios were put together and presented to policymakers and the public." :-
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...lity-an-update
They probably went with 'worst case' scenarios, rather than 'best case' scenarios.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Possibly this. Moving forward does look much brighter now though.
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