VISA credit cards

[vagabond]

I've noticed a trend that banks and credit card companies were moving from VISA to MasterCard and the majority of my cards are now MC, whereas previously they were VISA.

This morning I've received an email from Amazon UK, saying that they will no longer accept any (UK issued) VISA credit cards as payment from Jan 2022 and a request to update payment methods accordingly.

I suppose that seems to tie in with the trend. (However, I wasn't sure whether the email was a scam - so logged.in separately to my Amazon account and the message is genuine.)

I'm struggling to I understand VISA's pricing strategy here? The major players are VISA and MC, so wouldn't you try and be competitive?

[unclealec]

Yeah, I had the same message from Amazon. It does seem odd.

[Skier]

An article that explains it HERE.

[Tooks]

The VISA Credit Card fees must be high if Amazon are still happy to take Amex?!

[vagabond]

Thanks - though that's behind a paywall, so couldn't read it. Will do some googling later.....

[Skier]

Thanks - though that's behind a paywall, so couldn't read it. Will do some googling later.....

Ah, it came up in Google results. Here's the text.


HSBC’s First Direct brand will start moving customers from Visa to Mastercard debit cards next year, as Mastercard attempts to break its larger rival’s dominance in one of the most important parts of the UK payments sector.

Kelly Devine, Mastercard UK and Ireland president, told the Financial Times the agreement was “a validation of our approach and business model”, which had taken on greater urgency as the coronavirus increases the popularity of debit cards.

“Having true scale in that debit space is more important to us than it was before,” Ms Devine said. “Growth in contactless payments has been staggering.”

Debit cards overtook cash as the most popular form of payment in the UK in 2017, and by 2019 accounted for 42 per cent of all transactions, according to UK Finance data. The proportion of digital payments has risen even further since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

The shift to digital has been a boon for card networks, which charge stores a small fee for each payment that they process. Mastercard is the UK’s main provider of credit cards, but Visa has dominated the larger debit card market for the last decade, handling more than 95 per cent of transactions at its peak.

Britain’s large banks were incentivised to work with Visa because they co-owned its European arm, but Mastercard has been battling to regain market share since Visa Inc took full control of Visa Europe in 2016.

Ms Devine said First Direct’s 1.6m customers would help lift Mastercard’s market share above 15 per cent for the first time since Royal Bank of Scotland switched to Visa in 2009.

The New York-based group has become particularly popular with fintech start-ups such as Monzo and Starling Bank, but Friday’s First Direct deal marks the second major mainstream bank to switch to Mastercard in recent years, following a deal with Santander in 2018.

Mastercard had previously hoped to pass 20 per cent market share last year, but a proposed deal with TSB was shelved after unrelated tech problems at the bank forced it to put other projects on hold.

Ms Devine said convincing major banks to switch and negotiating contracts took “years”, but said she was hopeful that “other players will make the same decision in the future”. She said the group’s success with fintechs in particular had helped convince more traditional lenders to consider moving away from Visa. “It’s been a great way of showcasing what we can do,” she added.

[markrlondon]

Odd. I only pay by Visa at Amazon and I've not yet received an email from them about this.

I must be a low value customer! ;-)

This is actually quite shocking news. It has the smell of a stalemate. I wonder if Amazon or Visa will blink first. It occurs to me that there might also be a political element.

If too many UK banks move their customers to Mastercard, however, then I can only say that it might be too late for Visa to blink.



** Update **

Ah, I now see that this affects Vista credit card only. Vista debit cards will still be accepted by Amazon.

[number2]

My first thoughts were about the fees Visa charges which this appears to confirm..
BBC News - Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59306200

[wileeeeeey]

I’m with first direct and got the new card. Totally different design and looks like a card from Starling.

I can’t see how that would make Amazon reject UK issued Visa cards. Must be more to it.

[oldoakknives]

I’m with first direct and got the new card. Totally different design and looks like a card from Starling.

I can’t see how that would make Amazon reject UK issued Visa cards. Must be more to it.

Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

[aa388]

Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

They dragged them out in Morrisons a couple of months ago when the till systems went down for a few hours, it was a real surprise to see them and it got the job done.


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[MattH]

I can remember working at a software show selling books - took payments with those and I recall mangling a credit card in the machine - clearly I was a bit over enthusiastic with it 😂

[Robsmck]

Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

Last time I saw one of those in action was in the Miramar Steakhouse in Co Donegal about 12 years ago.

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[hogthrob]

Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

Coincidentally, I was wondering last night when they would stop putting a magnetic strip on cards. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe.

[optix]

Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

Some cards no longer have numbers on them at all ( front or back)

Just after amazon announced dropping visa.

They via banks started offering cash back on Mastercard debit spend.

Very coincidental timing, considering amazing hate giving that away.


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[Dave+63]

@skier, that’s all about debit cards but it’s credit cards Amazon are refusing to accept. They’re still accepting Visa debit payments.

I have the suspicion that it’s bully boy tactics by Amazon and Visa refusing to be bullied.

[geordie]

That's tremendously inconvenient as I'm with HSBC and prefer to manage all of my cards in one place. I do however have a Virgin Money CC which is backed by MasterCard, so may end up switching to that for Amazon purposes for the time being.

My Amazon email came through just now and even has a £20 incentive to register a new non-VISA, so if nothing else it's a free £20.

[Scepticalist]

I have the suspicion that it’s bully boy tactics by Amazon and Visa refusing to be bullied.

I have first hand knowledge of Visa - they shamelessly leverage their dominant position to keep their charges high in an industry where costs have fallen drastically.

Are Visa/MC allowed to charge different customers differently for the same service (might be an EU reg)?. Would explain why Visa wouldnt come to some sort of deal

Anyway, no problem for me I have one of each - the only issue I would predict for some people is that in some countries Mastercard is not as accepted. For most of Europe though it matters very little what flavour of issuer you have out of the two, for the UK all the supermarkets here take Amex even.

[Dave+63]

I have first hand knowledge of Visa - they shamelessly leverage their dominant position to keep their charges high in an industry where costs have fallen drastically.

Are Visa/MC allowed to charge different customers differently for the same service (might be an EU reg)?. Would explain why Visa wouldnt come to some sort of deal

Having read (and listened to) more on the subject, I’m inclined to disagree with my previous comment; it appears that VISA are taking advantage of Brexit to boost their margins in the UK.

[vagabond]

Oh right, of course it had to be; the gift that never stops giving!!

[M1011]

I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to stop using a card provider if the service/fee is uncompetitive.

The thing that annoyed me more than anything was the Mastercard statement in the BBC article: "remember that it is never the consumer that pays fees."

Honestly, do they think we're stupid?

[wileeeeeey]

Dear Mr,

We’re writing to notify you of an upcoming change to Amazon.co.uk.

Starting 19 January, 2022, we will unfortunately no longer accept Visa credit cards issued in the UK,?due to the high fees Visa charges for processing credit card transactions. You can still use debit cards (including Visa debit cards) and non-Visa credit cards like Mastercard, Amex, and Eurocard to make purchases. Please update your default payment method now, or add one of these new, eligible payment methods if you do not have one.

You can update your Prime membership here, and if you have any subscriptions on Amazon.co.uk, you can update them on the ''manage your subscription'' page here.

We know this may be inconvenient, and we’re here to help you through this transition so you can continue enjoying Amazon’s low prices and wide selection. Please visit this help page for more information on payment methods, or go directly to your account.

[Onelasttime]

Another excellent reason not to use Amazon… like I needed another.

[Neil.C]

I use Visa with Amazon, bought something yesterday, and haven't received their email.

[Tooks]

I use Visa with Amazon, bought something yesterday, and haven't received their email.

They’re still accepting Visa credit cards as payment until January next year, and Visa Debit cards are unaffected and will continue to be taken.

It’s only if you have a U.K. issued Visa credit card registered with them that you’ll get an email.

[GraniteQuarry]

Edited: schoolboy error

[Stanford]

Another excellent reason not to use Amazon… like I needed another.

Ditto.

I received the Amazon email today but wasn't particularly concerned as I usually get my daughter to buy stuff for me as she has a Prime account :)

[wjkerfoot]

I’ve not received the email as yet, perhaps it’s because my Amazon account is setup with Amex as my payment method.


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[WillS]

I got this email too, hopefully will reduce the wife’s spending!

[GraniteQuarry]

Got the email today too - reading it I think Prime subscribers are getting the alert first to update their payment method.

[higham5]

Got the email today too - reading it I think Prime subscribers are getting the alert first to update their payment method.

I had it yesterday and I am Prime with Visa. Please if you are an Amazon customer use the prompts to update your card when inside your account. Dont just do as I did and change the method of payment, this doesn’t trigger the £20 “immediate payment. I had to contact cust service to get it added manually.

Its a software glitch on their site.

[snowman]

I got the mail this morning (not a current Prime member, but I have had trials in the past) and initially assumed it was a scam, but it certainly didn't seem to be.

I've just checked all my CCs and they are now all Mastercards.

I have a Visa card on a Revolut account, but that's just a debit card and Amazon, at least, don't seem to have a problem with those.

M

[Brian]

I got the mail this morning (not a current Prime member, but I have had trials in the past) and initially assumed it was a scam, but it certainly didn't seem to be.

I've just checked all my CCs and they are now all Mastercards.

I have a Visa card on a Revolut account, but that's just a debit card and Amazon, at least, don't seem to have a problem with those.

M

I assume that you are aware that Revolut is an e-money company and not a bank so any money that you have with them is not protected under the FSCS

B

[snowman]

I assume that you are aware that Revolut is an e-money company and not a bank so any money that you have with them is not protected under the FSCS

B

I wasn't, I will look into that, but I only use it for foreign trips and the odd cash spend, so it's not a big deal for me.

M

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[Linc]

Seams to me it’s Amazon’s way of getting people to use there own Mastercard powered credit cards


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[reecie]

From what I read the end game is to remove use of cards (and hence fees) and have transactions direct from your bank accounts. Which I'm sure won't go down well in most cases :-)

[DONGinsler]

My bank is Visa and I never received and email. Maybe it's the UK and I'm in Canada.

All my business is with my bank, so not switching banks just to buy from Amazon. Have loads of other places to buy from if needed

DON

[Dave E]

Like others, I assumed the mail was a scam at first, but it seems not!

Only effects UK held VISA credit cards. I only have one CC and it's a VISA, so that's a bit annoying, but not the end of the world.

[Saint-Just]

My bank is Visa and I never received and email. Maybe it's the UK and I'm in Canada.

All my business is with my bank, so not switching banks just to buy from Amazon. Have loads of other places to buy from if needed

DON

I don’t understand. Visa is not a bank. And yes it’s UK only. For the moment at least.

[Kingstepper]

Might as well ask -

Is this just Amazon.co.uk or also Amazon.com etc with UK Visa credit cards?

[SydR]

Amazon has recently introduced surcharges for customers in Australia and Singapore using VISA credit cards.

I’m guessing there are laws in the UK stopping them surcharging here so they are simply stopping accepting them.

[MintG]

The story behind the story here is really why VISA are in a position to increase their fees to a disproportionately higher figure in the UK compared to rest of Europe. The answer is simple. We are no longer under EU protection (thanks to Brexit) against price hikes in this financial sector and so VISA are only taking advantage of yet another Brexit ‘benefit’ and making hay while the sun shines on our sunny uplands.


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[Neil.C]

The story behind the story here is really why VISA are in a position to increase their fees to a disproportionately higher figure in the UK compared to rest of Europe. The answer is simple. We are no longer under EU protection (thanks to Brexit) against price hikes in this financial sector and so VISA are only taking advantage of yet another Brexit ‘benefit’ and making hay while the sun shines on our sunny uplands.


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Well if they lose out on the sales of Amazon UK, which must be immense, I think the may be shooting themselves in the foot.

Or somebody may just back down.

[vagabond]

Well, it seems like someone has backed down - just received an email from Amazon stating that the Visa card changes (due 19th Jan) are on hold until further notice and that they will continue to accept Visa credit/debit cards.

[blackal]

Well, it seems like someone has backed down - just received an email from Amazon stating that the Visa card changes (due 19th Jan) are on hold until further notice and that they will continue to accept Visa credit/debit cards.

Got the same mail.

Not sure which entity (Visa or Amazon) has the upper hand - but I think it would lose Amazon a lot of spontaneous purchases, not taking visa - which hurts both of course.

Probably negotiate a lower rate.

[adg31]

Got the same mail.

Not sure which entity (Visa or Amazon) has the upper hand - but I think it would lose Amazon a lot of spontaneous purchases, not taking visa - which hurts both of course.

Probably negotiate a lower rate.

It would be interesting to understand who blinked first - the immovable object or the unstoppable force?


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[Tooks]

Well, it seems like someone has backed down - just received an email from Amazon stating that the Visa card changes (due 19th Jan) are on hold until further notice and that they will continue to accept Visa credit/debit cards.

They were never going to stop taking Visa DEBIT cards anyway, just CREDIT cards.

I expect they’ve come to some arrangement on fees…