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Thread: VISA credit cards

  1. #1
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    VISA credit cards

    I've noticed a trend that banks and credit card companies were moving from VISA to MasterCard and the majority of my cards are now MC, whereas previously they were VISA.

    This morning I've received an email from Amazon UK, saying that they will no longer accept any (UK issued) VISA credit cards as payment from Jan 2022 and a request to update payment methods accordingly.

    I suppose that seems to tie in with the trend. (However, I wasn't sure whether the email was a scam - so logged.in separately to my Amazon account and the message is genuine.)

    I'm struggling to I understand VISA's pricing strategy here? The major players are VISA and MC, so wouldn't you try and be competitive?

  2. #2
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Yeah, I had the same message from Amazon. It does seem odd.

  3. #3
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    An article that explains it HERE.

  4. #4
    Master
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    The VISA Credit Card fees must be high if Amazon are still happy to take Amex?!

  5. #5
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    Thanks - though that's behind a paywall, so couldn't read it. Will do some googling later.....

  6. #6
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    My first thoughts were about the fees Visa charges which this appears to confirm..
    BBC News - Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards in UK
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59306200
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  7. #7
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    Thanks - though that's behind a paywall, so couldn't read it. Will do some googling later.....
    Ah, it came up in Google results. Here's the text.


    HSBC’s First Direct brand will start moving customers from Visa to Mastercard debit cards next year, as Mastercard attempts to break its larger rival’s dominance in one of the most important parts of the UK payments sector.

    Kelly Devine, Mastercard UK and Ireland president, told the Financial Times the agreement was “a validation of our approach and business model”, which had taken on greater urgency as the coronavirus increases the popularity of debit cards.

    “Having true scale in that debit space is more important to us than it was before,” Ms Devine said. “Growth in contactless payments has been staggering.”

    Debit cards overtook cash as the most popular form of payment in the UK in 2017, and by 2019 accounted for 42 per cent of all transactions, according to UK Finance data. The proportion of digital payments has risen even further since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

    The shift to digital has been a boon for card networks, which charge stores a small fee for each payment that they process. Mastercard is the UK’s main provider of credit cards, but Visa has dominated the larger debit card market for the last decade, handling more than 95 per cent of transactions at its peak.

    Britain’s large banks were incentivised to work with Visa because they co-owned its European arm, but Mastercard has been battling to regain market share since Visa Inc took full control of Visa Europe in 2016.

    Ms Devine said First Direct’s 1.6m customers would help lift Mastercard’s market share above 15 per cent for the first time since Royal Bank of Scotland switched to Visa in 2009.

    The New York-based group has become particularly popular with fintech start-ups such as Monzo and Starling Bank, but Friday’s First Direct deal marks the second major mainstream bank to switch to Mastercard in recent years, following a deal with Santander in 2018.

    Mastercard had previously hoped to pass 20 per cent market share last year, but a proposed deal with TSB was shelved after unrelated tech problems at the bank forced it to put other projects on hold.

    Ms Devine said convincing major banks to switch and negotiating contracts took “years”, but said she was hopeful that “other players will make the same decision in the future”. She said the group’s success with fintechs in particular had helped convince more traditional lenders to consider moving away from Visa. “It’s been a great way of showcasing what we can do,” she added.

  8. #8
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Odd. I only pay by Visa at Amazon and I've not yet received an email from them about this.

    I must be a low value customer! ;-)

    This is actually quite shocking news. It has the smell of a stalemate. I wonder if Amazon or Visa will blink first. It occurs to me that there might also be a political element.

    If too many UK banks move their customers to Mastercard, however, then I can only say that it might be too late for Visa to blink.



    ** Update **

    Ah, I now see that this affects Vista credit card only. Vista debit cards will still be accepted by Amazon.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 17th November 2021 at 11:38.

  9. #9
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    VISA credit cards

    Iím with first direct and got the new card. Totally different design and looks like a card from Starling.

    I canít see how that would make Amazon reject UK issued Visa cards. Must be more to it.

  10. #10
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    Mastercard at the moment are doing card issuers a much better deal in terms of bottom line that Visa, so much so that it makes sense for the issuers to go through the expensive process of migrating all their card base from Visa to Mastercard. This flows through to the fees acquiring banks charge the merchants.

    At some stage in the future expect it to swing back the other way. Shame really as itís quite disruptive for the consumer and theyíre not getting any benefit to the change at all.

  11. #11
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    I've seen the same in last few years, all banks local to me have changed their cards to Mastercard. I like to keep both options and had actually work a bit to find a bank that offers a VISA-card.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    @skier, thatís all about debit cards but itís credit cards Amazon are refusing to accept. Theyíre still accepting Visa debit payments.

    I have the suspicion that itís bully boy tactics by Amazon and Visa refusing to be bullied.

  13. #13
    Master geordie's Avatar
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    That's tremendously inconvenient as I'm with HSBC and prefer to manage all of my cards in one place. I do however have a Virgin Money CC which is backed by MasterCard, so may end up switching to that for Amazon purposes for the time being.

    My Amazon email came through just now and even has a £20 incentive to register a new non-VISA, so if nothing else it's a free £20.

  14. #14
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Dear Mr,

    Weíre writing to notify you of an upcoming change to Amazon.co.uk.

    Starting 19 January, 2022, we will unfortunately no longer accept Visa credit cards issued in the UK,?due to the high fees Visa charges for processing credit card transactions. You can still use debit cards (including Visa debit cards) and non-Visa credit cards like Mastercard, Amex, and Eurocard to make purchases. Please update your default payment method now, or add one of these new, eligible payment methods if you do not have one.

    You can update your Prime membership here, and if you have any subscriptions on Amazon.co.uk, you can update them on the ''manage your subscription'' page here.

    We know this may be inconvenient, and weíre here to help you through this transition so you can continue enjoying Amazonís low prices and wide selection. Please visit this help page for more information on payment methods, or go directly to your account.

  15. #15
    Craftsman
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    Iíve not received the email as yet, perhaps itís because my Amazon account is setup with Amex as my payment method.


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  16. #16
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Another excellent reason not to use AmazonÖ like I needed another.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    I use Visa with Amazon, bought something yesterday, and haven't received their email.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  18. #18
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I use Visa with Amazon, bought something yesterday, and haven't received their email.
    Theyíre still accepting Visa credit cards as payment until January next year, and Visa Debit cards are unaffected and will continue to be taken.

    Itís only if you have a U.K. issued Visa credit card registered with them that youíll get an email.

  19. #19
    I got this email too, hopefully will reduce the wifeís spending!

  20. #20
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Got the email today too - reading it I think Prime subscribers are getting the alert first to update their payment method.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Another excellent reason not to use AmazonÖ like I needed another.
    Ditto.

    I received the Amazon email today but wasn't particularly concerned as I usually get my daughter to buy stuff for me as she has a Prime account :)

  22. #22
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Edited: schoolboy error
    Last edited by GraniteQuarry; 17th November 2021 at 22:17.

  23. #23
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I got the mail this morning (not a current Prime member, but I have had trials in the past) and initially assumed it was a scam, but it certainly didn't seem to be.

    I've just checked all my CCs and they are now all Mastercards.

    I have a Visa card on a Revolut account, but that's just a debit card and Amazon, at least, don't seem to have a problem with those.

    M
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  24. #24
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I got the mail this morning (not a current Prime member, but I have had trials in the past) and initially assumed it was a scam, but it certainly didn't seem to be.

    I've just checked all my CCs and they are now all Mastercards.

    I have a Visa card on a Revolut account, but that's just a debit card and Amazon, at least, don't seem to have a problem with those.

    M
    I assume that you are aware that Revolut is an e-money company and not a bank so any money that you have with them is not protected under the FSCS

    B

  25. #25
    Journeyman
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    Seams to me itís Amazonís way of getting people to use there own Mastercard powered credit cards


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  26. #26
    Master
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    From what I read the end game is to remove use of cards (and hence fees) and have transactions direct from your bank accounts. Which I'm sure won't go down well in most cases :-)

  27. #27
    Journeyman DONGinsler's Avatar
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    My bank is Visa and I never received and email. Maybe it's the UK and I'm in Canada.

    All my business is with my bank, so not switching banks just to buy from Amazon. Have loads of other places to buy from if needed

    DON

  28. #28
    Grand Master Dave E's Avatar
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    Like others, I assumed the mail was a scam at first, but it seems not!

    Only effects UK held VISA credit cards. I only have one CC and it's a VISA, so that's a bit annoying, but not the end of the world.
    Dave E

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  29. #29
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DONGinsler View Post
    My bank is Visa and I never received and email. Maybe it's the UK and I'm in Canada.

    All my business is with my bank, so not switching banks just to buy from Amazon. Have loads of other places to buy from if needed

    DON
    I donít understand. Visa is not a bank. And yes itís UK only. For the moment at least.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  30. #30

    VISA credit cards

    Might as well ask -

    Is this just Amazon.co.uk or also Amazon.com etc with UK Visa credit cards?

  31. #31
    Craftsman SydR's Avatar
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    Amazon has recently introduced surcharges for customers in Australia and Singapore using VISA credit cards.

    Iím guessing there are laws in the UK stopping them surcharging here so they are simply stopping accepting them.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Got the email today too - reading it I think Prime subscribers are getting the alert first to update their payment method.
    I had it yesterday and I am Prime with Visa. Please if you are an Amazon customer use the prompts to update your card when inside your account. Dont just do as I did and change the method of payment, this doesnít trigger the £20 ďimmediate payment. I had to contact cust service to get it added manually.

    Its a software glitch on their site.

  33. #33
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Iím with first direct and got the new card. Totally different design and looks like a card from Starling.

    I canít see how that would make Amazon reject UK issued Visa cards. Must be more to it.
    Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

    The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

    The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

    They dragged them out in Morrisons a couple of months ago when the till systems went down for a few hours, it was a real surprise to see them and it got the job done.


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  35. #35
    I can remember working at a software show selling books - took payments with those and I recall mangling a credit card in the machine - clearly I was a bit over enthusiastic with it 😂

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I have the suspicion that it’s bully boy tactics by Amazon and Visa refusing to be bullied.
    I have first hand knowledge of Visa - they shamelessly leverage their dominant position to keep their charges high in an industry where costs have fallen drastically.

    Are Visa/MC allowed to charge different customers differently for the same service (might be an EU reg)?. Would explain why Visa wouldnt come to some sort of deal

    Anyway, no problem for me I have one of each - the only issue I would predict for some people is that in some countries Mastercard is not as accepted. For most of Europe though it matters very little what flavour of issuer you have out of the two, for the UK all the supermarkets here take Amex even.
    Last edited by Scepticalist; 18th November 2021 at 20:55.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

    The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

    Last time I saw one of those in action was in the Miramar Steakhouse in Co Donegal about 12 years ago.

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  38. #38
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scepticalist View Post
    I have first hand knowledge of Visa - they shamelessly leverage their dominant position to keep their charges high in an industry where costs have fallen drastically.

    Are Visa/MC allowed to charge different customers differently for the same service (might be an EU reg)?. Would explain why Visa wouldnt come to some sort of deal
    Having read (and listened to) more on the subject, Iím inclined to disagree with my previous comment; it appears that VISA are taking advantage of Brexit to boost their margins in the UK.

  39. #39
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    Oh right, of course it had to be; the gift that never stops giving!!

  40. #40
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to stop using a card provider if the service/fee is uncompetitive.

    The thing that annoyed me more than anything was the Mastercard statement in the BBC article: "remember that it is never the consumer that pays fees."

    Honestly, do they think we're stupid?

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to stop using a card provider if the service/fee is uncompetitive.

    The thing that annoyed me more than anything was the Mastercard statement in the BBC article: "remember that it is never the consumer that pays fees."

    Honestly, do they think we're stupid?
    Guess their point is, it's not the consumer using the card paying the transaction fee.

  42. #42
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Guess their point is, it's not the consumer using the card paying the transaction fee.
    But it is though, just not in a transparent way.

    The fee is paid by the merchant.

    The merchant sets the price of the item, which is directly impacted by the costs associated with selling the item.

    We pay the price of the item. Hence, the consumer is covering the fees in the price they pay.

    People may highlight that you pay the same price regardless of paying with a Visa Credit Card or a MasterCard Debit Card. That's the legal requirement on retailers, which is BS as it just means the cost of those fees are averaged out and priced in for all customers, both those using the credit card and those not. When a company like MasterCard say we (Joe Public buying stuff) are not paying the fees, they may as well be spitting in our faces IMO.

    A random exaggerated example. Company that supplies IKEA with wood decides to double the price of wood. They claim "remember that it is never the consumer that pays the extra cost", as after all we don't buy wood, we buy IKEA products. Meanwhile, IKEA products go up in price by 20%. Of course massively exaggerated, but the same BS the card companies try to sell us. IMO of course.

  43. #43
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to stop using a card provider if the service/fee is uncompetitive.

    The thing that annoyed me more than anything was the Mastercard statement in the BBC article: "remember that it is never the consumer that pays fees."

    Honestly, do they think we're stupid?
    Perhaps just forgetful, as it was only in 2018 that the ability of businesses to Ďsurchargeí customers using credit or debit cards was curtailed.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...s-for-shoppers

  44. #44
    Master Xantiagib's Avatar
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    I have both and amex too so not worried about amazon's decision but miffed wasn't offered the freebie - due to the fact I had my amex linked to amazon mostly...

    If you get the free Curve card – which is a Mastercard – you could use it to make your Amazon purchases from January 2022...
    Curve recharges your purchases to another linked Visa or Mastercard. Link your existing Visa card to it Amazon charges will continue to pass through to it, via Curve: https://www.curve.com/join#AMCEN

    I doubt there would be some of us in the position where we only had one visa credit card and not able to use another form of payment on amazon... ?

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    I have both and amex too so not worried about amazon's decision but miffed wasn't offered the freebie - due to the fact I had my amex linked to amazon mostly...

    If you get the free Curve card ‚Äď which is a Mastercard ‚Äď you could use it to make your Amazon purchases from January 2022...
    Curve recharges your purchases to another linked Visa or Mastercard. Link your existing Visa card to it Amazon charges will continue to pass through to it, via Curve: https://www.curve.com/join#AMCEN

    I doubt there would be some of us in the position where we only had one visa credit card and not able to use another form of payment on amazon... ?
    If someone hasnít a suitable card they can get one or shop somewhere else.
    Itís not a right to be able to shop at Amazon.

  46. #46
    Master Xantiagib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    If someone hasnít a suitable card they can get one or shop somewhere else.
    Itís not a right to be able to shop at Amazon.
    or buy amazon gift cards at a shop with a visa card

  47. #47
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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  48. #48
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

    The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......

    Coincidentally, I was wondering last night when they would stop putting a magnetic strip on cards. I can't remember the last time I had to swipe.

  49. #49
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    VISA credit cards

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Same here. New card has done away with the embossed numbers and they are simply printed on the back now. Makes it easier to get more cards in my I-Clip so hope more follow suit.

    The embossed numbers are redundant these days anyway, can't remember the last time I saw one of these......
    Some cards no longer have numbers on them at all ( front or back)

    Just after amazon announced dropping visa.

    They via banks started offering cash back on Mastercard debit spend.

    Very coincidental timing, considering amazing hate giving that away.


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  50. #50
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I assume that you are aware that Revolut is an e-money company and not a bank so any money that you have with them is not protected under the FSCS

    B
    I wasn't, I will look into that, but I only use it for foreign trips and the odd cash spend, so it's not a big deal for me.

    M

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