Reply With QuoteMaybe I'm too cautious, but no amount of photos or messages would induce me to send money via gumtree - whatever the cash incentive.
Need some advice please chaps...
I'm close to buying a watch from Gumtree unseen and need to give myself as much protection as possible for doing something I would generally countenance against!
The watch, from his good pictures, looks to be spot on. Only 3 months old and is complete with original invoice and correctly filled in warranty card. Initial contact with the seller has been positive and he writes using the Queens English and hasn't called me 'mate'
It's for a decent chunk of cash, £3k, and is a considerable saving over new but not so cheap that it's too good to be true. If the distance involved could make a person to person sale sale possible I'd do it...6 hours travel to reach his home. Coach, plane or rail too convoluted, costly or just not possible.
My thoughts, credit card via Paypal.
* But, will paypal (using goods & services) and buying as a private sale give me protection?
* What will paypal as, %age, take from the seller if I choose and he accepts this method of payment...is it 4% which IIRC was what it used to be some years ago?
* using RMSD and Secursus, should the package be insured for the max allowable ie £2.5k using RMSD and topped up with Secursus or just the minimum £500 +Secursus?
Meanwhile I've asked the seller to send pictures of the serial number on the watch and the warranty card so I can check the warranty status online. Should help establish the watch is the real deal.
If I do go ahead I'm going to cobble together some sort of contract to be used when using payapl (if that turns out to be the best option for my protection)
All a little 'dangerous' but I do feel reasonably confident that this is a genuine sale. Even includes the Wolf watch winder that big High St chains are throwing in with some sale, again makes me feel it is a genuine sale. Going to have a phone chat with seller later and see how that goes.
Any thoughts or whatever else I could do save me making an expensive mistake would be hugely appreciated :)
David
Maybe I'm too cautious, but no amount of photos or messages would induce me to send money via gumtree - whatever the cash incentive.
Last edited by number2; 31st October 2021 at 13:55.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I’m not sure I would do it. Does the seller have the original till receipt as well as the invoice ? Does his name match up with the invoice ?
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Originally Posted by jacinabox
How much under market value is it 5o make you want to buy from gumtree?
I wouldn’t go near that. No protection I believe.
If you really want to go ahead with a deal with him, get him to list on eBay and pay by PayPal
This, for me.
Pay him extra, if need be, to cover the fees he'll have to pay.
Or go and buy in person. Six hours isn't much considering the financial risk.
That is the only reasonable way forward really.
Agree with everyone else. You are sending a significant sum of money to a complete stranger. The watch could well be genuine and he might have it in his possession but he could still suddenly decide to keep the watch and your cash if he was so inclined. Unless I could meet up, I wouldn't do this.
I’ve always found PayPal’s buyer protection to be very good, and have bought watches that way - albeit cheaper ones - buying via a Facebook group or forum would carry the same risks
If it was me and after a phone conversation I still didn’t feel right about it I’d want to do it face to face. For something at £3,000 a days travelling would be worth it for the peace of mind. If it’s the same one I’ve seen on gumtree with the wolf watch winder then it looks legit, the question I’d be asking is why is he selling a nearly brand new watch at nearly half price - if there’s a scam it’s probably contained within the answer to that question
I would avoid this transaction.
I would either travel to take a look and buy if ok or leave it. This setup is risk ridden and the risk is against you.
I've bought stuff on gumtree before, none of the items cost more than £60. Did have one instance when the seller sent me a totally different item yo what I purchased. Many emails were left unanswered so I just took the loss on the chin.
If it involves £3K I would not chance it.
I still use gumtree occasionally to get rid of large items such as chairs, chests, etc., that we don't want anymore.
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The fact you are having to think of ways to prevent yourself getting scammed suggests it’s probably best to forget about the transaction entirely.
Nothing you do will protect you with this style of transaction should the watch be a fake or if the seller runs off with your cash. I would say there is more chance of the whole thing being a scam than you actually getting the watch. (I am a pessimist though)
Me too! I wouldn't even bother looking there for anything worth more than a tenner!
Does this mean you had problems with a private sale bought through paypal and they refunded you?
No way I would buy sight unseen from Gumtree.
Meet the fella or dont do it.
You could put a quid into his bank account and set him up as a payee so that if the watch is okay you could transfer the rest there and then through mob banking.
Do you have a watch nerd pal near this guy who could go view it on your behalf in exchange for dinner money?
May be easier for them to view and if all good you instant transfer them, they instant transfer the seller.
I have found PayPal protection reliable in the past, but buying through eBay is not a bad idea if you can live with the extra costs.
Have you held a video call with him? That is the best way to establish if he is genuine and has the watch in his possession, you will have a better idea on how to proceed afterwards.
I'd stay away personally if I couldn't see the watch in person.
Cheers,
Neil.
Gumtree is full of snakes, avoid.
For a laugh look at all the Bolex fakes advertised, a fool & his money are easily parted!
Yes a couple of times. In the hundreds rather than thousands but they’ve dealt with it efficiently
Thank you for your replies, have to adnit the response's are along the same lines as I would have given if someone else posed the same question.
First line of my OP would have been better phrased in saying 'considering' rather than 'close to'
Guess you're looking at the same watch, I cannot see anything wrong with it. But with a saving of around £2.4k i'm thinking he's after a little more than a High St Jeweller (or Watchfinder etc) would offer as a buy-in price. It's certainly a question I'll be asking of the seller.
To answer some of the other points:
Haven't seem the original sales receipt (can ask tho') but he does show a screen shot from Beaverbrooks showing his order is on the way and includes the order reference - assume for now it was an online purchase?.
There are various other bits of Beaverbrook's guff in the photo's but with no personal details beyond a "Dear ****"
Travelling for 6 hours (12 hour total) by car is not really my cup of tea, I'm old enough to find driving any great distance dull and joyless.
So, am I right to think that a payment, goods and services, via paypal (funded by credit card) gives me NO protection on sale from a private individual from a sales platform such as Gumtree - I know Gumtree will not offer the same security as eBay? If there is no protection then it's a non-starter
There's a way to go yet and some talking to do with the seller before I consder any commitment. Just trying to get myself as protected as possible. There's nothing in the advert or the sellers communication so far that screams walk away.
I've bought an expensive watch (6 month old Breitling Montbrillant) via Gumtree some years ago from a farmer in Suffolk without considering a fraction of the protective measures I'm thinking of just now. Lots of talking and a bank transfer and it went perfectly.
Much to consider and I appreciate your thoughts :)
David
Thanks. Good to know they cover private sales and are true to their word about paying. Maybe an option for the OP then.
Yeah, I’d ask why he’s selling in the first place. If he’s bought via Beaverbrooks online he’s probably paid full RRP and now is eating £2,500 within a few months - seems a bit odd
No, this isn’t right.So, am I right to think that a payment, goods and services, via paypal (funded by credit card) gives me NO protection on sale from a private individual from a sales platform such as Gumtree - I know Gumtree will not offer the same security as eBay? If there is no protection then it's a non-starter
Explained here: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mp...y-and-security
Photos easily harvested from tinterweb.
I wouldn’t even begin to contemplate buying something of this value from Gumtree…asking for trouble IMO.
Without meeting up and viewing its a no from me.
That said, I have just sent a large chunk of cash to someone who has a pop up shop on the net, never has any stock and only seems to open once a month. I’m sure something will turn in post in the near future though.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
David, many years back before I became unsociable and cynical I fell for a con-merchant on Gumtree - it related to a Rolex purchase and my checks on his authenticity plus his professionalism as a crook led me astray and I ended up deeply out of pocket (£k's) - I also tried to buy a high end camera from the same place a couple of years ago and encountered another very confident con-merchant and this time Paypal saved my bacon because I insisted on payment for goods (but he still managed to rope in another unsuspecting into the "deal" who lost the best part of a grand) . Bitten once is acceptable twice (even in totally different circumstances) proves my stupidity and as you can guess I haven't even considered the place ever since. Caveat Emptor etc
Keith
What's wrong with 'mate'?
Have you asked him directly why he's selling a nearly new watch and presumably a big loss? There may be a simple explanation.
PayPal buyer protection, if paying via G&S, doesn't change based on the platform I believe. So you'll be protected in theory and really it's no different than buying via eBay of TZUK. The difference I guess is traceable feedback history. That said, given the cost, I'd probably opt out of doing this transaction online (and even F2F is only useful if you can reliably spot a fake).
Maybe ask one of your fellow TZers who's local to pop round and have a look for you? You could do s BT while he was there and he could take the watch home and post it on to you??
It’s quite a responsibility though, if it turns out to be moody, however asking the seller if it’s possible might help judge if he’s on the level or not, if he refuses, it could be a red flag.
Cheers..
Jase
Thanks for the additional comments.
Just had a long conversation with the seller. Selling because he has too many watches and isn't attracted to it any longer. Just retired and would rather use the money elsewhere.
As I thought his asking price is just a few hundred above what the likes of Watchfinder etc offered.
Nothing unreasonable it what he says, sounds pleasant and friendly enough. He's emailing the info' I asked for (picture of serial number on watch and warranty card) And sending a copy of original invoice. Also copy of reduced bank statement showing payment to Beaverbrooks, a copy of a utility bill - all offered voluntarily. Cynically, is he trying too hard?
And he's still not calling me mate...a big plus!
He's exceptionally peed off with no shows for viewings, people who want to buy it for their uncle with cash, "will you take £2k for it" low ballers - the usual time wasters you encounter when selling on Gumtree.
Every now and then I think you come across a genuine seller on Gumtree who can't be doing with taking a chance on eBay. All seems weighted in favour of the buyer and I see his POV.
I've considered asking if a friendly TZ'er might view it, but if turns out to be dud when he thought it was OK - nope. But I don't think it's a commonly faked model, could be wrong.
He sounds plausible, the watch looks fine Normally my gut would be telling me it's not right. I need to sleep on it, check out the info' he sends me, take my time and go from there.
Still twitching though!
David
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Out of interest, what’s the watch?
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
We all know there are scammers out there, but I wouldn't have thought many would go to the trouble of, or more to the point have the ability to rig up fake bank statements and utility bills etc. It sounds to me like he is placing similar levels of trust in you by sharing this information as he expects you to place in him.
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Sounds good mate
If you are hell-bent on buying this, a visit from a local TZer would at least establish if he seems legit in the flesh. And a "no" from the vendor would be a turn-off surely?
Err, no.
Ruggertech said:
We all know there are scammers out there, but I wouldn't have thought many would go to the trouble of, or more to the point have the ability to rig up fake bank statements and utility bills etc. It sounds to me like he is placing similar levels of trust in you by sharing this information as he expects you to place in him.
I'm of a similar view...he's pulled the advert as he's fed up with what he considers 'scammers' and being messed around.
He's sent me plenty of his own clear pictures, copies of all the paperwork, redacted bank statement showing payment in full to Beaverbrooks and other docs with his name/address etc.
The watch is as close to 'mint' as far as I can see.
It is a lot of effort for a 'scammer' to go to ? Thought it would be easier for a rip-off merchant to tell me to sod off if he was getting too much scrutiny?
I've verified the watch is under warranty with the manufacturer's site using his pics of serial number from watch and documents. Warranty start date ties in with his bank statement payment date - that side is 100% watertight.
I can't see any pictures on the net that are the exact same his, confident they're not lifted from elsewhere.
Paypal would seem to offer me protection if I go ahead and all turns to mush.
Nothing is screaming (or whispering) at me to walk away.
Took the hound out for a walk and saw two magpies...'one for sorrow, two for joy' A good omen?
I'm in a quandary, I'm going to sleep on it and see if I can pick any holes in what's being offered.
@ my mate on here, M1011 :)
The watch - Tag Heuer Cal 11 Gulf Edition
Again, thanks all for chipping in
David
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Last edited by jacinabox; 31st October 2021 at 23:35. Reason: messed up quote
One extra thought....if the sellor is himself sick of scammers and time wasters, why the hell is he advertising it on Gumtree? Scam Central!
Doesn't know better?
I've had some amazing watch findings on Gumtree, and that's exactly because it tends to put most people off. Mind you, all of them were local, so managed to meet in person. PayPal protection might be a good idea, however, never tried outside of eBay.
I'd say go for it, but with a lot of caution and diligence, mind you I'm more of a risktaker saying that
That's it, no deal.
Two lengthy and friendly calls today but he wouldn't accept PayPal. I understood his reasons - I could have asked PayPal to reverse the transaction; I wouldn't have! But I guess someone with no scruples might have tried to.
He's the same age as me, he's ex-army and I'm ex-RN so a few stories were shared - I felt the guy was totally genuine, but I felt too exposed financially to go ahead.
Had a rather relaxed attitude to postal insurance, felt that RMSD would be adequate regardless of value. Wasn't interested in the likes of Secursus to top-up...RM hadn't lost any packages of his in the past. If it failed to reach me he'd refund me.
Started to feel a touch nervous then.
I've asked him to stick it on Chrono24 for the same price and I'll cover his fee's. Don't think that's likely.
Sounded totally fed up with the watch and the amount of time wasters. He's a first time user of Gumtree and he's not using it again for high value items.
I'm a little surprised that no local s/h watch dealers hadn't spotted the watch and bought it. Thought there would've been an easy £1.5k profit for a 3 month old watch.
I don't think I've dodged a bullet by not buying, I'm kicking myself (a little) for not being more trusting and little less risk averse...there's always another day and another watch.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to tell me not to do it!
David
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What watch was it anyway and where was he based?
Personally I think you made a good decision. Apparently hobbies and interests are supposed to be fun, not causing such anxiety!
As you wisely point out - always another one.
*Nope!
**Noooooope!!
I might be overly cautious but I reckon I can count the number of GENUINE watches I've seen on Gumtree on one hand. There isn't an incentive in the world which would make me hand over £3k to a gumtree seller in person, let alone over the web.
Tag Heuer Gulf Monaco CAW211R Seller based in Cheltenham.
All the docs, paperwork and proof of payment all tied up as did the warranty validation guff on TH site...no doubts it was the real deal, but the 'what iff's' crept in with no recourse for me if it did go belly up
Even googled his name and he popped up at the same address on all the paperwork he forwarded for a complaint to the council...proves his age is the same as mine; whinging old sods!
Regrets? Yes, a few <sniff>
David
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If you’re set on a Gulf and can be patient, they do appear on eBay for less than £3500. I sold my own on Facebook last year for £3250 I think.
In person I certainly would have. Had I made the journey (too far) we'd have gone the Beaverbrooks and had them confirm it was the watch they sold him albeit the paperwork, tags, invoice etc gave me no doubts to its authenticity.
For a distance sale, as I said, it's not happening.
For me it's a shame that trust and integrity seem to be human traits in short supply...that applies to the seller and myself. He doesn't want PayPal for fear of a charge back and I can't do the deal 'just in case'
Sad world in my ageing mind.
David
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Last edited by jacinabox; 1st November 2021 at 17:20.
I'm surprised payment method wasn't discussed from the outset to save a lot of time. I bought a couple of watches off a chap long distance on gumtree a few years back and paid paypal goods. About the £500 mark. After the deal concluded smoothly, I did warn him against doing it again in case some crook just reversed the payment.
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Last edited by stefmcd; 1st November 2021 at 20:52.
It was but very loosely. I think the 3 phone calls over 24hrs were about as much as us sounding each other out. In the first call there was no outright refusal of Paypal. I think he then considered (or was advised) that PP did have a potential drawback from his perspective.
I was quite prepared to go for it this morning if PP would've been acceptable to him. It wasn't and that's the end of it...trust on both sides was needed and couldn't be achieved. I understand it from his POV but wish it was otherwise.
David
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I certainly wouldn’t I bought a watch off eBay off a genuine seller with all the protection eBay offers and it was in much better condition than it looked in the photos but it still made me very twitchy till I had it in my hands
That is definitely my feeling too.
I'm sure there are some honest sellers out there on it, but it's pretty much a scally's platform as far as I can tell, buyers and sellers.
I guess if something looks good and you can see it face to face before buying it may be OK, but then you have to wonder how many stolen watches are sold via Gumtree (although it's probably true of eBay as well).
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
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