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Thread: Will the Rolex madness end ?

  1. #301
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Buying the watch is fine but if you have to sell it in a hurry at a later date, you will probably drop the price and hence the brand will suffer. But you knew that already didn't you.
    No it won’t. One (or a thousand) watch(es) sold quickly but still most likely above retail price is not going to damage a brand selling a million new watches a year with demand for multiple millions more.

    But you know that too don’t you?

  2. #302
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    No it won’t. One (or a thousand) watch(es) sold quickly but still most likely above retail price is not going to damage a brand selling a million new watches a year with demand for multiple millions more.

    But you know that too don’t you?
    Mick will not accept any other view than his own.
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  3. #303
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    I’d be a worried man working there with next to nothing to sell .
    But they are selling all they can get which, if what we are told is true, is as much as before. It's demand that has gone up, not supply reduced. It's a salesperson's dream.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    But they are selling all they can get which, if what we are told is true, is as much as before. It's demand that has gone up, not supply reduced. It's a salesperson's dream.
    Until someone figures out they really don't need the salesman in the equation

  5. #305
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    Until someone figures out they really don't need the salesman in the equation
    Yes, logically speaking that does seem to be coming, doesn't it.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Yes, logically speaking that does seem to be coming, doesn't it.
    It already has - its called online shopping.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    Called into WOS in Regent St yesterday, my wife wanted to try an exhibit only model on , which to be fair was dealt with very well by the SA.

    They had an internal display cabinet with 4 Rolex watches actually for sale , which is their total offer.

    I’d be a worried man working there with next to nothing to sell .
    You’re being very naive.
    Their entire allocation sells as soon as it drops……all at full price. They have plenty to sell, although I wouldn’t really call it selling, more allocating.

  8. #308
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It already has - its called online shopping.
    Well yes, but this has not impacted (new) higher end luxury watch sales as much as one might have expected. Companies like JLC and others have been doing direct website sales for a while now but Rolex is still holding out, and B&M ADs are still part of the chain in this area.

    However, now that new Rolexes sell themselves with no sales skill required... cutting out the sales people looks more and more practicable. That just leaves B&M ADs as a place to hand over the watch and take the money, and maybe as a showroom to try on 'exhibition only' pieces. So maybe direct sales are beginning to look more and more culturally feasible even for the likes of Rolex.

    Who knows.

    I am certain that we'll see even Rolex selling direct online eventually.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    Do I want or need another Rolex?
    You know the answer


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    I think you have already told us that you don’t.
    Several times.
    On this thread.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I think you have already told us that you don’t.
    Several times.
    On this thread.
    So why make out that I really want one if you already know that I don’t?
    It may be hard to understand but some people simply don’t want or need a Rolex.
    This may be for a variety of reasons - which those who do want one should celebrate as it effectively increases availability for them!


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  11. #311
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    ……

    Some of the brands are attracting the wrong type of customers - nothing is worth owning if you have to liquidate it.
    Wouldn’t have thought brands would classify customers as the right type or ‘wrong type’ to be honest.
    What makes them the ‘wrong type’?
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Well yes, but this has not impacted (new) higher end luxury watch sales as much as one might have expected. Companies like JLC and others have been doing direct website sales for a while now but Rolex is still holding out, and B&M ADs are still part of the chain in this area.

    However, now that new Rolexes sell themselves with no sales skill required... cutting out the sales people looks more and more practicable. That just leaves B&M ADs as a place to hand over the watch and take the money, and maybe as a showroom to try on 'exhibition only' pieces. So maybe direct sales are beginning to look more and more culturally feasible even for the likes of Rolex.

    Who knows.

    I am certain that we'll see even Rolex selling direct online eventually.
    I'm not so sure. These are more boutiques than shops and all part of the luxury retail experience.

    One thing I don't understand is the grey market dealers. Several people have suggested here that Rolex turn a blind eye to ADs selling to resellers. Why? Is it to to keep liquidity in the market and/or to show that they are undervalued at RRP? With each watch carrying a "serial" (except randomised, because Rolex) number it would be easy for HQ to see which ADs are leaking. To be honest the whole thing is so far removed from any normal business practice as to be unfathomable to me, a mere mortal.

  13. #313
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    Just to share my experiences.

    I jumped on a massive watch-purchasing binge in 2016-2018. These included 4 SS Rolex’s but also many others as well.


    • Ceramic Sub from AD
    • YM Blue dial from AD
    • Ceramic Daytona white dial from a Grey. I paid £11.5k for this (+£2k over AD if you could get one)
    • An Oyst Perp 26 for the good lady (tactical gift for various reasons).


    The Sub. I never really gelled with it as a fav. Will keep, maybe give to my Son?

    YM. Love this watch – especially on a RubberB Blue strap. I do like the YM/Daytona case over the Sub case and will never sell unless forced.

    The Daytona. Sold this to WF for £24k in September. Made on it big but see this as nothing but Tulip mania. Was I interested in making a profit? No. But it became clear that wearing opportunities were becoming limited and if people think this is worth 24-27k, I think their priorities are wrong. Good enough for me to sell and think I’ve done well without the greed.

    Do I think people who buy at 24-27k will make +12k? No. I think current owners will do well to retain value going forward. I think putting food on the table will become a higher priority soon for most of us.

    What did I learn? Well I rode the hype somewhat and arguably got off at the right time. Guilty and sorry. However, my purchases now are more about what I really like to wear than an “investment”. I spend most of my time enjoying a Freak X and Reverso more than any Rolex I own or want. I still scratch my head over the marketing, hype and escalating prices. Emperors’ new clothes and all that.

    This is a mad game for what are relatively ordinary watches and Im convinced many will get burnt very soon.

  14. #314
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guycord View Post
    Just to share my experiences.

    I jumped on a massive watch-purchasing binge in 2016-2018. These included 4 SS Rolex’s but also many others as well.


    • Ceramic Sub from AD
    • YM Blue dial from AD
    • Ceramic Daytona white dial from a Grey. I paid £11.5k for this (+£2k over AD if you could get one)
    • An Oyst Perp 26 for the good lady (tactical gift for various reasons).


    The Sub. I never really gelled with it as a fav. Will keep, maybe give to my Son?

    YM. Love this watch – especially on a RubberB Blue strap. I do like the YM/Daytona case over the Sub case and will never sell unless forced.

    The Daytona. Sold this to WF for £24k in September. Made on it big but see this as nothing but Tulip mania. Was I interested in making a profit? No. But it became clear that wearing opportunities were becoming limited and if people think this is worth 24-27k, I think their priorities are wrong. Good enough for me to sell and think I’ve done well without the greed.

    Do I think people who buy at 24-27k will make +12k? No. I think current owners will do well to retain value going forward. I think putting food on the table will become a higher priority soon for most of us.

    What did I learn? Well I rode the hype somewhat and arguably got off at the right time. Guilty and sorry. However, my purchases now are more about what I really like to wear than an “investment”. I spend most of my time enjoying a Freak X and Reverso more than any Rolex I own or want. I still scratch my head over the marketing, hype and escalating prices. Emperors’ new clothes and all that.

    This is a mad game for what are relatively ordinary watches and Im convinced many will get burnt very soon.
    Only those buying at inflated grey prices would ever get 'burnt' I think. If you buy at list, values are never going to drop much below it imo. And if you buy because you just like watches, losing a bit on their value probably won't bother you.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  15. #315
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    Pics of the Freak X in the next Friday thread please guycord!
    Phenomenal watch - one of the earlier models would be on my unlimited funds list.

  16. #316
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    Would be good to see the reverts too. Very underrated and super quality watch.

  17. #317
    Someone speaking out and telling it how is it...


    https://youtu.be/VHD2rU0XJcQ

  18. #318
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    That video has just confirmed that market value is now the predominant factor in the market. It always happens eventually.

    The message is clear, if you don't like the way Rolex operate, buy another brand.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    That video has just confirmed that market value is now the predominant factor in the market. It always happens eventually.

    The message is clear, if you don't like the way Rolex operate, buy another brand.
    I think it's more people getting caught up in the whole "market hype" paying over retail than being prepared to wait a while for the AD to allocate them a watch.

    'A fool and his money are soon parted'

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Mick will not accept any other view than his own.
    He would be in his element in the bear pit then.

  21. #321

    Will the Rolex madness end ?

    I’d say good luck to the ‘professional’ flipper interviewed; £100,000 tax free over a couple of years (on top of your day job) seems like a reasonable incentive so long as people are willing to pay such a premium for ownership.
    I’ll also bet that the ‘professional’ flippers are not the ones left with stock on their hands at below book value when the bubble bursts


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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    I’d say good luck to the ‘professional’ flipper interviewed; £100,000 tax free over a couple of years (on top of your day job) seems like a reasonable incentive so long as people are willing to pay such a premium for ownership.
    I’ll also bet that the ‘professional’ flippers are not the ones left with stock on their hands at below book value when the bubble bursts


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    I think even if the bubble bursts. The watches won't sell much if any below retail. You just won't pay 80% mark up on an OP41

  23. #323
    I would have thought some kind of easing of values over say 3-5 years.
    Interest rate rises/mortgage costs
    Increased taxation to pay for furlough/covid etc ( got to be paid for somehow and even inflation will take a long time to erode the debt with this one, surely)
    Other indicators such as ftse/bonds
    Energy costs- the current elephant in the room.
    I certainly won’t be paying “overs” for anything atm.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I think it's more people getting caught up in the whole "market hype" paying over retail than being prepared to wait a while for the AD to allocate them a watch.

    'A fool and his money are soon parted'
    I know things can change but in nearly every case, providing you sit on your Rolex for a year or two, you can resell and show a profit. So buying a Rolex isn't the act of a fool.

    The RRP is now a myth, if you buy and sell at the going rate, it will be quick, painless, enjoyable and profitable. If you are determined to buy at RRP, you will have a long drawn out struggle on your hands.

    The bad publicity only comes from those who moan about the "market hype". One day they will latch on to the fact that one one really cares what they think and their best bet, for their own happiness, is to forget that Rolex even exists.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOAT View Post
    I would have thought some kind of easing of values over say 3-5 years.
    Interest rate rises/mortgage costs
    Increased taxation to pay for furlough/covid etc ( got to be paid for somehow and even inflation will take a long time to erode the debt with this one, surely)
    Other indicators such as ftse/bonds
    Energy costs- the current elephant in the room.
    I certainly won’t be paying “overs” for anything atm.
    There are millions of people in the UK alone who have no need to worry about any of those things and the sale of good quality goods will just carry on.

  26. #326
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    I’m calling bull**it, there are a number of inconsistencies in his story and you have to ask yourself why ADs would be so desperate to accommodate him when they can quite easily sell to as many genuine buyers as they get watches who, most likely being local, are far more likely to return to the shop for other items.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul Thorpe had written it himself and just pressed auto read!

  27. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If you are determined to buy at RRP, you will have a long drawn out struggle on your hands.

    The bad publicity only comes from those who moan about the "market hype". One day they will latch on to the fact that one one really cares what they think and their best bet, for their own happiness, is to forget that Rolex even exists.
    Yes some models are more difficult to obtain from the AD's than other but certainly not impossible if you are prepared to wait a few months. Also all that keeps the prices above retail is "market hype" and people needing to have the new hyped model immediately.

    I am certainly not complaining as I have personally done very well from it but there is no way it will last...

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post

    I am certainly not complaining as I have personally done very well from it but there is no way it will last...
    There will always be market fluctuations but the thing to remember is that Rolex have seen the benefits of protecting their brand image and will continue to do it.

    Time will tell so all we have to do is wait and see.

  29. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I know things can change but in nearly every case, providing you sit on your Rolex for a year or two, you can resell and show a profit. So buying a Rolex isn't the act of a fool.
    The concept of holding on to a watch for a couple of years - even a Rolex - and making a profit when it comes to resale really is still a relatively new concept.
    A few years ago I was actually told by a Rolex representative that you never lose money on their watches. It just so happened that I had a pending sale of an Explorer so asked if they would care to put their money where their mouth was.
    They declined - it lost money as predicted


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  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    The concept of holding on to a watch for a couple of years - even a Rolex - and making a profit when it comes to resale really is still a relatively new concept.
    A few years ago I was actually told by a Rolex representative that you never lose money on their watches. It just so happened that I had a pending sale of an Explorer so asked if they would care to put their money where their mouth was.
    They declined - it lost money as predicted


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    Yes because Rolex were discounting like mad and the Greys were undercutting by massive margins. Those days are over.

  31. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Yes because Rolex were discounting like mad and the Greys were undercutting by massive margins. Those days are over.
    …for now


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  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Someone speaking out and telling it how is it...

    https://youtu.be/VHD2rU0XJcQ

    The principle may have some truth but the “story” sounds like complete Bull. He knew nothing about Rolex two years ago and then has recently been offered 3 SS Daytonas?!

  33. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    The principle may have some truth but the “story” sounds like complete Bull. He knew nothing about Rolex two years ago and then has recently been offered 3 SS Daytonas?!
    'Anonymous sources' and all that. Take it with a pinch of salt. No ADs are ever named either for that matter despite them telling us all how it is in other videos.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    I’d say good luck to the ‘professional’ flipper interviewed; £100,000 tax free
    It’s not tax-free; he’s a trader just like Milton or Mark Worthington. If he’s not declaring his profits, he’s evading income tax which is a criminal offence.

    EDIT: He’s likely over the VAT registration limit to so presumably evading VAT too!!
    Last edited by David_D; 27th December 2021 at 12:38.

  35. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    It’s not tax-free; he’s a trader just like Milton or Mark Worthington. If he’s not declaring his profits, he’s evading income tax which is a criminal offence.
    In the ‘interview’ I thought he said that he buys to sell on to dealers whereas Milton or Mark Worthington already sell to the public.
    As such, they are more of a middle man.
    When it comes to tax evasion - that’s another issue altogether!


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  36. #336
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    This is a bit left field but thought it apt here.
    I took my daughter to Chanel New Bond Street in London last week and they flagged a lady who was buying multiple bags and this time monitored her during the convoluted process and worked out she was buying as an agent for her customer and immediately took it off her and banned her from any future purchases.
    They now require photo ID either a passport or driving licence which they save on file to flag up anyone buying more than 1 bag every 60 days.
    I wish Rolex AD's would do this and ban the serial flippers who are preventing people who actually want one for themselves to keep and treasure rather than purely as a tax free investment opportunity.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    In the ‘interview’ I thought he said that he buys to sell on to dealers whereas Milton or Mark Worthington already sell to the public.
    As such, they are more of a middle man.
    When it comes to tax evasion - that’s another issue altogether!
    Just meant that he is buying and selling for profit - whether to dealers or otherwise! I stopped listening when it got the the 3 SS Daytonas part!!

  38. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Just meant that he is buying and selling for profit - whether to dealers or otherwise! I stopped listening when it got the the 3 SS Daytonas part!!
    I can’t think of a better reason to be buying and selling than for profit
    I’m just really glad that there aren’t any Rolex models in the current lineup that I want!


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  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    I can’t think of a better reason to be buying and selling than for profit
    I’m just really glad that there aren’t any Rolex models in the current lineup that I want!
    There’s none that I would pay over list for! (So I’m not getting one any time soon.)

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Someone speaking out and telling it how is it...


    https://youtu.be/VHD2rU0XJcQ
    I wouldn't normally watch something like that but I'm at a loose end until 3pm and so I sat through it ... I'm not sure I believe that ... 3 SS Daytonas ??? ADs don't need flippers to shift their stock.

    As if any AD is going to be impressed by some guys job ... celebrity endorsement maybe but nothing more ...

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    As if any AD is going to be impressed by some guys job ... celebrity endorsement maybe but nothing more ...
    And if he’s such a successful/famous person, why does he need (and how does he have the time) to go round buying loads of watches he sells at a loss to get others to sell at a profit?!

    More I think about it, the more it looks like one for the Didn’t Happen Of The Year awards.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    And if he’s such a successful/famous person, why does he need (and how does he have the time) to go round buying loads of watches he sells at a loss to get others to sell at a profit?!

    More I think about it, the more it looks like one for the Didn’t Happen Of The Year awards.
    Ye. Load of rubbish that video.

    He got all these watches because he was friendly with the AD. 2 years ago sounds like he was right at the start of the real hype.

    I'd imagine the first AD would of been a little annoyed when he came in for a 2nd sub two weeks later after selling his to a mate

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeePee View Post
    This is a bit left field but thought it apt here.
    I took my daughter to Chanel New Bond Street in London last week and they flagged a lady who was buying multiple bags and this time monitored her during the convoluted process and worked out she was buying as an agent for her customer and immediately took it off her and banned her from any future purchases.
    They now require photo ID either a passport or driving licence which they save on file to flag up anyone buying more than 1 bag every 60 days.
    I wish Rolex AD's would do this and ban the serial flippers who are preventing people who actually want one for themselves to keep and treasure rather than purely as a tax free investment opportunity.
    I bought the wife a Chanel bag a couple of months ago and they asked for ID to make a copy of, I thought it was a little strange at the time.


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  44. #344
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I’m calling bull**it, there are a number of inconsistencies in his story and you have to ask yourself why ADs would be so desperate to accommodate him when they can quite easily sell to as many genuine buyers as they get watches who, most likely being local, are far more likely to return to the shop for other items.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul Thorpe had written it himself and just pressed auto read!
    Well, given his Youtube channel is monetised, he probably earns £500 - £1000 a month out of people watching his cr@p.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPCain86 View Post
    Ye. Load of rubbish that video.

    He got all these watches because he was friendly with the AD. 2 years ago sounds like he was right at the start of the real hype.

    I'd imagine the first AD would of been a little annoyed when he came in for a 2nd sub two weeks later after selling his to a mate
    Pretty sure it’s a bit longer ago than 2 years when you could get a Submariner with zero AD history and a very short wait.

  46. #346
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    That video seems bogus. If you can afford to buy a date just and sub in close proximity why would you be tempted by making a quick £500. Doesnt ring true

  47. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Pretty sure it’s a bit longer ago than 2 years when you could get a Submariner with zero AD history and a very short wait.
    It would be about then as I was offered a Sub Non-Date by an AD I had no purchase history with.
    I declined the offer - still no regrets 🙂

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by adg31 View Post
    It would be about then as I was offered a Sub Non-Date by an AD I had no purchase history with.
    I declined the offer - still no regrets 
    Fair enough. That’s surprising as I’m sure that things had already gone pretty mad by then. Annoyingly can’t remember when but think early 2019 (latest) I was surprised to see a black GMT in an AD in Leeds. I didn’t want it so didn’t buy it. Those were the days!
    Last edited by David_D; 27th December 2021 at 19:05.

  49. #349
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    Clearly there are some ADs complicit. A £30k stickered Daytona suggests so, anyway.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-Daytona-Mens-Panda-White-Dial-Watch-116500LN-Immaculate-Condition-/194671735745

  50. #350
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    Could have got a batman for 7k a couple of years back. don't regret not pulling the trigger but I doubt I ever will with this madness anyway

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