closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 200 of 350

Thread: Will the Rolex madness end ?

  1. #151
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Washington , England
    Posts
    512
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    No I am not Mick - I could accuse you of the same.

    I bought my first Rolex (Submariner) in 1980. I have owned around 18 Rolex different watches since then - I now own zero and have no intention of ever owning one again. The discounts I have had over the years were via a couple of close friends with contacts in the trade. Why do you suggest that a discount is a 'dirty discussion'?, it comes up in most walks of life when people are spending decent amounts of money.

    The grey market is not market rate - it is what the fools are paying, nothing more.

    Answer me this then - why is Fattorini in Harrogate closing after 190 years in the jewellery and watch business who were Rolex dealers for much of that time?. Harrogate has been a prime market for them for years and years.

    Not up with the times?


    Fattorini are closing because the owner is retiring and has no one to succeed him, quite a common problem within family owned businesses.

  2. #152
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    4,761
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    What constantly amuses is people pretending they are some kind of superior and more discerning species than the IG crowd flaunting their Rolexes or being somehow superior to a casual watch wearer/collector. Just because someone finds a tiny old ugly POS more appealing than a shiny new bauble for whatever reasons, it does not make them more discerning or worthy. If that is what floats your boat, more power to you and I would certainly love to hear about it with interest. Just don’t try to tell us that your interest is the hobby is more worthwhile or genuine. That is delusion of the highest order. A hobbyist who makes time and effort to decide what they like and talk about it and wear it with pride and joy without necessarily trying to talk down others who think differently is a true hobbyist and one I would prefer whatever their collecting philosophy might be. A brand image in the mind of the typical old, disgruntled, manky, self righteous snobbish TZ member is not necessarily the true brand image. Rolex wearers are not a homogeneous breed and is disingenuous to paint them with the same brush. If someone buys Rolex for investment and enjoys wearing them while doing so, I would call them misguided. Only because the prices are not always going to go up.
    I wouldn’t pass any judgement on their worthiness.
    Your use of the word ‘manky’ made me laugh

  3. #153
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Brand image is not about some idiot who thinks he has made it just because he drives around in a 911 which was probably leased or on some sort of credit deal. It is about the perception of the brand in the mind of the customer. It is an impression that a customer has of the company and its products.

    A few years ago, Rolex was not in demand and today it is and that is a true sign that the brand image has strengthened.
    I agree with your first point. However, the 'idiot' in the 911 could have just as much input to the perception of the brand as a Wall Street entrepreneur. Perception is just that, what people see and what they tale from what they see. If all they see is business people wearing the brand they'll assume that it's worn mostly by business people. If all they see is 'idiots' in 911's, well you get the idea.

    I completely disagree with your second point though. Rolex has been in demand since I was a child. The demand is most definitely higher now but they have always been a sought after brand with a very high price tag. In fact, my perception of the brand is as overspill from the 'Yuppie' era. The designs have changed very little since then and most of those who wish to own them haven't either.

  4. #154
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    Fattorini are closing because the owner is retiring and has no one to succeed him, quite a common problem within family owned businesses.
    It is. `I think the point was more that it's existed for 190 years and been passed down through generations yet this generation doesn't want to continue that tradition. I suspect that's because it's an increasingly difficult market place to work in.

  5. #155
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    39,533
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    It is. `I think the point was more that it's existed for 190 years and been passed down through generations yet this generation doesn't want to continue that tradition. I suspect that's because it's an increasingly difficult market place to work in.
    Yes, that was my point.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  6. #156
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    If someone buys Rolex for investment and enjoys wearing them while doing so, I would call them misguided. Only because the prices are not always going to go up.
    Not necessarily misguided, it does of course depend on the price point that they purchased at and how much the pre-owned prices rise. You're right that it's absolutely not guaranteed but most people who can afford to buy a Rolex as an investment will also be the people who can afford to follow the stock market. There's risk but with every low risk investment opportunity being so poor (I'm thinking of bank interest rates in particular) those who want to invest may well see it as a risk they're willing to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Just don’t try to tell us that your interest is the hobby is more worthwhile or genuine.
    I think this point is spot on. I'm relatively new to the likes of this forum although I've had an interest in watches all my life, I could just never afford anything more than a bottom of the range Seiko (I still have it incidentally). What I get from this forum is how polarised some watch owners can be and quite a few of those do seem to be Rolex owners?

  7. #157
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lagoa, Portugal
    Posts
    10,674
    Blog Entries
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Not necessarily misguided, it does of course depend on the price point that they purchased at and how much the pre-owned prices rise. You're right that it's absolutely not guaranteed but most people who can afford to buy a Rolex as an investment will also be the people who can afford to follow the stock market. There's risk but with every low risk investment opportunity being so poor (I'm thinking of bank interest rates in particular) those who want to invest may well see it as a risk they're willing to take.



    I think this point is spot on. I'm relatively new to the likes of this forum although I've had an interest in watches all my life, I could just never afford anything more than a bottom of the range Seiko (I still have it incidentally). What I get from this forum is how polarised some watch owners can be and quite a few of those do seem to be Rolex owners?
    I hope you get to virtually meet a whole cross section of watch fanatics here. Not all own Rolex, some do, but there are a lot that don’t and don’t intend to as they are a multitude of other brands. Welcome brother!

    martyn

    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so”. HHGTTG


  8. #158
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    I agree with your first point. However, the 'idiot' in the 911 could have just as much input to the perception of the brand as a Wall Street entrepreneur. Perception is just that, what people see and what they tale from what they see. If all they see is business people wearing the brand they'll assume that it's worn mostly by business people. If all they see is 'idiots' in 911's, well you get the idea.

    I completely disagree with your second point though. Rolex has been in demand since I was a child. The demand is most definitely higher now but they have always been a sought after brand with a very high price tag. In fact, my perception of the brand is as overspill from the 'Yuppie' era. The designs have changed very little since then and most of those who wish to own them haven't either.
    I guess image is in the eye of the beholder,

    I include Rolex in my collection because, in my own experience, they reliably keep good time. This is not true of many luxury brands and that is something that irritates me profoundly. I know that many, or most, watch enthusiasts say that timekeeping precision is not important to them but, to me, it is of the essence.

    I drive a 911 because, for my use case, it is peerless…. Relatively affordable, reliable, small, beautifully poised on rough roads and that traction out of bends and the way that you can feel the weight transfer into the apex under braking; nothing compares in my experience.

    I’ll have other cars and other watches but there will always be Rolex as one of my daily wearers and a 911 in the garage so long as I can still get in and out of it.

    Others may have different reasons to buy these things. I am 58 and don’t really get the instagram thing. I can’t relate to the people who push content on instagram but the idea that they are chavs or idiots is silly isn’t it? To their followers aren’t they aspirational role models? I don’t know why or how it works but they do me no harm and if they can make money out of owning nice watches and cars than good luck to them. I wish I could have had a job like that. I think that the “idiots” and “chavs” that watch snobs look down on are exactly the target market that luxury goods manufacturers wish to attract; that’s why they get paid to post I assume.

    To me, the idiot is someone who wants a nice watch and a nice car who doesn’t consider a Rolex and a 911. But image is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
    Last edited by Satori; 6th November 2021 at 22:28.

  9. #159
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Don’t feel bad. It was hardly directed at you:-). Have a great day.
    The only one here who really specialises in tiny old ugly POS baubles is me. Soooo….

    Mind you as you used ‘true’ and ‘Rolex brand image’ in the same sentence, I assume you just wanted to give me a good feed line.

    So let’s play the ‘Rev Oh?’ pub quiz.

    1) in what year did Rolex become a true manufacture?
    2) Who invented the first automatic watch?
    3) Did someone swim the Channel wearing a Rolex in 1926?
    4) Did Rolex get a watch on the summit of Everest before the Chinese?
    5) which company first patented a screw together case with a screw down crown
    6) which watch company was the first to have a fully vertically integrated structure?
    7) Which well known dive watch was rejected by the U.S. Navy.
    8) Did Rolex supply issue watches to any allied powers in WWII
    9) What was the conclusion of Walt Odets analysis of the Rolex 3000 movement?
    10) Which manufacture accidentally produced a Wristwatch with Strontium Lume?

    And for the bonus, which watch manufacture’s charter commits it to funding dogs homes?

    Answers on a postcard…

    Tomorrow I shall be wearing the tiniest ugliest POS bauble I can manage all day long. I’ll make sure it’s from an English company too!

  10. #160
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    18,698
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    The only one here who really specialises in tiny old ugly POS baubles is me. Soooo….
    ....................
    And for the bonus, which watch manufacture’s charter commits it to funding dogs homes?

    Answers on a postcard…

    Tomorrow I shall be wearing the tiniest ugliest POS bauble I can manage all day long. I’ll make sure it’s from an English company too!
    Well Rolex support various wildlife charities, which is fine by me. Enjoy your POS.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    The only one here who really specialises in tiny old ugly POS baubles is me. Soooo….



    Tomorrow I shall be wearing the tiniest ugliest POS bauble I can manage all day long. I’ll make sure it’s from an English company too!
    Well, I hope you do enjoy it as that is the only thing that matters.
    Rest of your comment was inconsequential and irrelevant. So, excuse me for ignoring it. So

    Some free advice- so much obsession with Rolex is not healthy. Rolex is the most successful Swiss watch company. Come to terms with it.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 7th November 2021 at 06:36.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Hood

    Brand image is not about some idiot who thinks he has made it just because he drives around in a 911 which was probably leased or on some sort of credit deal.
    What a load of twaddle, even for you.

    I deal with a lot of high net-worth people in my job selling Mercedes-Benz and as an AMG specialist, a lot of big ticket cars. Even the biggest hitters (eg premiership footballers from the Manchester clubs, TV “stars” and Cheshire set restaurant and nightclub owners) take their G Wagen’s etc on credit, none pay cash even when they are a world-class centre back earning £250,000 a week……

    I think it’s fair to say that anyone driving around in a new 911 has “made it”

  13. #163
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Well, I hope you do enjoy it as that is the only thing that matters.
    Rest of your comment was inconsequential and irrelevant. So, excuse me for ignoring it. So

    Some free advice- so much obsession with Rolex is not healthy. Rolex is the most successful Swiss watch company. Come to terms with it.
    That’s the ROLEX spirit: make a false claim with complete commitment; now go check on poor little Swatch. How did they do in 2020. Incidentally, if Rolex sales dropped by 15% in 2020, why did the situation in dealers not improve. Odd.

    Did you even check?

    As for me, the idea that I’m equally interested In a wide range of watches including Rolex? Is it so unthinkable?

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    That’s the ROLEX spirit: make a false claim with complete commitment; now go check on poor little Swatch. How did they do in 2020. Incidentally, if Rolex sales dropped by 15% in 2020, why did the situation in dealers not improve. Odd.

    Did you even check?

    As for me, the idea that I’m equally interested In a wide range of watches including Rolex? Is it so unthinkable?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/robbrep...234601315/amp/

    https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/03/swi...port-2020.html

    Be a man enough not to hide behind the Swatch BS.
    Swatch is a holding company- not a watch company.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 7th November 2021 at 09:15.

  15. #165
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    England and Spain
    Posts
    5,669
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post

    As for me, the idea that I’m equally interested In a wide range of watches including Rolex? Is it so unthinkable?
    That is good and why would anyone object to that. The bulk of the noise seems to be attacking Rolex and those who own them.

  16. #166
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,499
    Blog Entries
    1

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    ….none pay cash even when they are a world-class centre back earning £250,000 a week……
    t”
    Really, why take credit when it’s just few days earnings to pay in full?

    I’m surprised they’d bother with all the paperwork.

  17. #167
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    That is good and why would anyone object to that. The bulk of the noise seems to be attacking Rolex and those who own them.
    Nah, I was responding to Rajen. Mind you Rolex's love of hyperbole and misleading copy combined with some of the world's finest fanboys makes the brand an everfresh target for mirth.

    Meanwhile, here's a lovely example of a tiny old ugly POS with my morning coffee.




    By way of background, it's from London in 1919, uses a Swiss movement in an English case with a custom made dial. The watch was assembled by a family concern. This business model was rendered uneconomic by the rounds of protectionism following world war II and most of the UK companies doing this folded. Of particular interest is the yellowing crystal which is celluloid, the same stuff films are made of. One interesting feature of celluloid, is that it expands and contracts massively in response to temperature. This is interesting as it was also used in the 'indestructable' crystals used in other tiny old ugly POS such as this:


    which, of course, was the first watch worn on the summit of Everest, by Mallory in 1924.
    Last edited by M4tt; 7th November 2021 at 10:32.

  18. #168
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/robbrep...234601315/amp/

    https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/03/swi...port-2020.html

    Be a man enough not to hide behind the Swatch BS.
    Swatch is a holding company- not a watch company.
    As is 'Rolex holding S.A.' The clue is in the name. Mind you, as all the divisions held by RHSA, are finally owned and controlled by the somewhat secretive Hans Wilsdorf Foundation who, by virtue of being a charity, are freed up from all those inconvenient reporting, or indeed taxation, rules. So who knows?
    Last edited by M4tt; 7th November 2021 at 10:49.

  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    As is 'Rolex holding S.A.' The clue is in the name. Mind you, as all the divisions held by RHSA, are finally owned and controlled by the somewhat secretive Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, who by virtue of being a charity are freed up from all those inconvenient reporting, or indeed taxation, rules. So who knows?
    Rolex watch company or Rolex SA and Rolex Holdings SA are not interchangeable
    We are talking of Rolex watch company here.

  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Meanwhile, here's a lovely example of a tiny old ugly POS with my morning coffee.




    By way of background, it's from London in 1919, uses a Swiss movement in an English case with a custom made dial. The watch was assembled by a family concern. This business model was rendered uneconomic by the rounds of protectionism following world war II and most of the UK companies doing this folded. Of particular interest is the yellowing crystal which is celluloid, the same stuff films are made of. One interesting feature of celluloid, is that it expands and contracts massively in response to temperature. This is interesting as it was also used in the 'indestructable' crystals used in other tiny old ugly POS such as this:


    which, of course, was the first watch worn on the summit of Everest, by Mallory in 1924.
    Nice.
    I am not upto snuff on what is the final word on Mallory’s reaching the summit,though.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 7th November 2021 at 10:55.

  21. #171
    Craftsman WHL1882's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    490
    I like Rolex because it supports and encourages proletariat participatory sports like tennis, F1 and golf 🤣

  22. #172
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I hope you get to virtually meet a whole cross section of watch fanatics here. Not all own Rolex, some do, but there are a lot that don’t and don’t intend to as they are a multitude of other brands. Welcome brother!

    martyn
    Thanks Martyn. In the 'real' world I have already met a number of people who are enthusiasts for various different watch brands. As an example, until the last couple of years I had never heard of Christopher Ward yet I now know two big fans of the brand and I'm becoming a fan as well. There are any number of watch brands that I hadn't heard of until I joined this forum and it has been very informative, exactly what I had hoped for (M4tts post further down this thread for example). Unfortunately as with any online community there is a lot of undue negativity. I really like constructive criticism and opinions but what I really don't like is negativity for the sake of negativity.

  23. #173
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Rolex watch company or Rolex SA and Rolex Holdings SA are not interchangeable
    We are talking of Rolex watch company here.
    If only it was that simple. So do you mean:

    Montres Rolex S.A. (Geneva)

    or

    Manufacture des Montres Rolex S.A. (Bienne)

    or

    Rolex Le Locle S.A. (Le Locle)

    or

    Rolex holdings S.A.

    or even

    Rolex Inc. (as you are in the US.)

    Or perhaps

    The Wilsdorf Foundation (Geneva)?


    It's so confusing, perhaps you can explain.

    By way of a little help, Manufacture des Montres Rolex, was, until 2004, good old fashioned Aegler, and produced Rolex's movements which were then sold to Rolex (well, and Gruen until 1936). It's almost like ETA, the folks who make most of Swatch group's movements...
    Last edited by M4tt; 7th November 2021 at 11:19.

  24. #174
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    London
    Posts
    6,977
    Quote Originally Posted by WHL1882 View Post
    I like Rolex because it supports and encourages proletariat participatory sports like tennis, F1 and golf 藍
    And horsey things don’t forget the nice little horses and the people that ride them. They can’t even afford car for heavens sake, they have to ride a horse…

  25. #175
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Meanwhile, here's a lovely example of a tiny old ugly POS with my morning coffee.
    Fantastic post (thank you) and what a lovely watch. I'm actually quite jealous!

  26. #176
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,146
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    ................


    which, of course, was the first watch worn on the summit of Everest, by Mallory in 1924.
    Weren't you supposed to be writing a paper about that?...........
    Time to...GO!

  27. #177
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    The bulk of the noise seems to be attacking Rolex and those who own them.
    As I've said, I'm relatively new to this forum. In my (limited) experience you are quite correct but curiously there is also a lot of noise from Rolex owners attacking other brands. As a rule I don't like the cosmetics of Rolex watches although there are odd exceptions. I do however appreciate that they are very well made watches. What I don't quite understand is the absolute obsession which doesn't just apply to Rolex, of people who put themselves on multiple-year long waiting lists, possibly with no hope of ever getting.a watch, purely because it's a Rolex, or a PP or whatever. Many of those that end up owning the watches have an 'air of superiority' about them as if they're more important than others because they have managed to reach the front of that list. Why don't they just move on and buy a watch from a different brand that they can enjoy as much? If someone wants to buy a £150k watch, I have no issue with that and I would love to see it but don't for one second think I will think anything more of that £150k watch than a far less expensive watch that tells the time just as well and is just as well made.

  28. #178
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Nice.
    I am not upto snuff on what is the final word on Mallory’s reaching the summit,though.
    I've been writing an article on it very slowly for a very long time. Trust me when I say that I am, right down to having handled both his watch and his compass (which took some finding) and having bought examples of all the key gear.







    Which is relevant. I can make a ridiculously strong case for why they would have hit the summit early and in perfect condition. More importantly, I can make an even stronger case as to why having got there, they were utterly doomed, due to an unavoidable mistake about conditions and several entirely avoidable and stupid mistakes. What I'm very slowly in the process of doing is making an interlocking case of a dozen or so things that individually are interesting, but together fit into what feels to me to be a bulletproof whole. With lots of lovely pictures!

    for example, here's something that set me wondering, while researching the Smiths thing:

    The watch was in his pocket when found. Sadly that's about as much context as we get. The earliest pictures I have seen have a clear hour hand and no sign of a minute hand. Personally, from my experience of radium lume I think you can always tell where the hands rested for long periods because of the lines of discolouration. As such, I'd put my money on a single hand pointing to about half past one as that's the only part of the watch with clear lines rather than general collapse however without the context of the watch's position in the pocket, the pocket's relative position to the ground, what else was in the pocket and so on, it's hard to say what was going on. even in a pocket, stratigraphy matters.

    I'm far from the first to look at the watch carefully, for example.

    http://www.wou.edu/las/physci/poston...h_kohsiek.html

    However, it is unclear if most of the people writing about it are working from photographs or the original. I'd suspect that if they'd seen the original they'd say so. However no one I have read (and God knows, I've looked) has noticed that the minute post has snapped off. Of course you only have my word (and competence) to support this claim but I am quite certain that the Borgel at the RGS had no hands, or stubs of hands remaining and that the pinion carrying the minute hand was snapped off.

    Here's what it should look like, from my military Borgel:
    How could a silver watch lose its crystal, snap off the minute hand post and end up in the owner's pocket while sustaining no other damage at all? All the previous explanations involve a very light knock. This isn't credible, not least because cellulose just didn't break, it bent, easily. I can prove that the watch was still, on retrieval in 1999, turning over - because it did and can be seen to have in a series of photos. So how do you break a minute post without damaging the dial, the case or the mechanism within? We know that Mallory was still to some degree with it when the damage occurred, as the watch ended up, sans crystal in his pocket. But is there another explanation of how it lost the crystal, the minute hand and the post? What might this tell us beyond what we already know?
    Last edited by M4tt; 7th November 2021 at 11:50.

  29. #179
    Interesting stuff, thanks. Look forward to the article.

  30. #180
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    West Sussex, United Kingdom.
    Posts
    7,195
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    What a load of twaddle, even for you.

    I deal with a lot of high net-worth people in my job selling Mercedes-Benz and as an AMG specialist, a lot of big ticket cars. Even the biggest hitters (eg premiership footballers from the Manchester clubs, TV “stars” and Cheshire set restaurant and nightclub owners) take their G Wagen’s etc on credit, none pay cash even when they are a world-class centre back earning £250,000 a week……

    I think it’s fair to say that anyone driving around in a new 911 has “made it”
    What do you define as "IT"?

  31. #181
    Craftsman WHL1882's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    And horsey things don’t forget the nice little horses and the people that ride them. They can’t even afford car for heavens sake, they have to ride a horse…
    😂

  32. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Really, why take credit when it’s just few days earnings to pay in full?

    I’m surprised they’d bother with all the paperwork.
    Lots of reasons, for example tax efficiency (register the car to “David Beckham Ltd”, your image rights company, rather than you personally) insurance (21 year old footballer can’t get insured on a £180,000 G63 but can register it to Carlos Kickaball LTD and drive it as a company vehicle insured for any employee of the company)

    Regarding paperwork, footballers generally have an agent as director of the company who does all the paperwork. The player usually comes in and picks the car an the agent or appointed representative takes over and we usually deliver the car to them…..

  33. #183
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    13,125
    Just as a thought and to simplify things decide what watch you like the look of most and that fits you the best. Try it on. Is it within budget? That'd be the one to buy then.

    Everything else is really just noise.

  34. #184
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Weren't you supposed to be writing a paper about that?...........
    I still am. It got ridiculously complicated. Covid, 11+ you name it. At the moment it's a sprawling monster that needs more work and more editing. Did you know how mad, and well organised, peak running was from the late 19th century? Or the astonishing range of changes in how your cells are powered that comes under acclimatization? Or just how shamefully unfit the '53 expedition were? It's all complicated

  35. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Just as a thought and to simplify things decide what watch you like the look of most and that fits you the best. Try it on. Is it within budget? That'd be the one to buy then.

    Everything else is really just noise.
    True but by that token 99% of the stuff here is just noise:-)

  36. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    I still am. It got ridiculously complicated. Covid, 11+ you name it. At the moment it's a sprawling monster that needs more work and more editing. Did you know how mad, and well organised, peak running was from the late 19th century? Or the astonishing range of changes in how your cells are powered that comes under acclimatization? Or just how shamefully unfit the '53 expedition were? It's all complicated
    Now, now, no excuses Matt.
    You have piqued our interest and we want that article and want it now! I think the world will survive if you don’t opine on Covid 19 for a few days:-)

  37. #187
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Just as a thought and to simplify things decide what watch you like the look of most and that fits you the best. Try it on. Is it within budget? That'd be the one to buy then.

    Everything else is really just noise.
    Spoken like someone who doesn't use ebay!

  38. #188
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Near the sea
    Posts
    6,007
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Lots of reasons, for example tax efficiency (register the car to “David Beckham Ltd”, your image rights company, rather than you personally) insurance (21 year old footballer can’t get insured on a £180,000 G63 but can register it to Carlos Kickaball LTD and drive it as a company vehicle insured for any employee of the company)

    Regarding paperwork, footballers generally have an agent as director of the company who does all the paperwork. The player usually comes in and picks the car an the agent or appointed representative takes over and we usually deliver the car to them…..
    Interesting and makes sense the first part, second part is just ridiculous, buying such a car should be an enjoyable experience, sit down, talk through the options and once decided have that great feeling of signing it all off.

    Trouble is if you have a glorified PA at such a young age doing literally everything for you then later life is going to be difficult..

  39. #189
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Now, now, no excuses Matt.
    You have piqued our interest and we want that article and want it now! I think the world will survive if you don’t opine on Covid 19 for a few days:-)
    It's actually got more to do with several staff being off with it and me ending up volunteering to be less than part time to make up the numbers again. So suddenly I'm teaching bloody research methods and memory to psychologists. Methods I haven't taught in a decade or more and the memory in the course is so far out of date I've forgotten it all. So actually, I'm mostly revising at the moment.

    Mallory's triple life and the other guy's peccadilloes can wait. It's a great story, but I'm in no hurry.

  40. #190
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,499
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Lots of reasons, for example tax efficiency (register the car to “David Beckham Ltd”, your image rights company, rather than you personally) insurance (21 year old footballer can’t get insured on a £180,000 G63 but can register it to Carlos Kickaball LTD and drive it as a company vehicle insured for any employee of the company)
    Those are reasons for different ownership tactics. Not a reason to buy using credit.

  41. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Those are reasons for different ownership tactics. Not a reason to buy using credit.
    Even so, smart money leases / finances luxury cars. Get your assets to pay for your liability! Or.. if it floats flies or f*cks - rent it

  42. #192
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,499
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by thestore View Post
    Even so, smart money leases / finances luxury cars. Get your assets to pay for your liability! Or.. if it floats flies or f*cks - rent it
    Maybe, but every time I have looked at that the case to buy outright always wins.

  43. #193
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Derbyshire
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Spoken like someone who doesn't use ebay!
    True!! For me its more like find something I like the look of... struggle to find somewhere to try it on as its likely discontinued or there's no local AD for whatever brand it is... obsess over photos and reviews... buy the watch.. be underwhelmed... stick it on Ebay and take my losses.

    Then the whole process gets repeated 10 times a year until I run out of watches to try and end up talking myself into rebuying the same watches I didn't gel with first time

  44. #194
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    11,162
    Blog Entries
    1
    I was more thinking:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144270351449

    for example. As I clearly wanted it more than I bid!

  45. #195
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Washington , England
    Posts
    512
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    It is. `I think the point was more that it's existed for 190 years and been passed down through generations yet this generation doesn't want to continue that tradition. I suspect that's because it's an increasingly difficult market place to work in.
    Or maybe retailing has no attraction to the younger generations of the family ?

    It’s a hard position for any family business to find themselves in , I'm speaking from experience unfortunately.

  46. #196
    I like my watches and consider myself as a bit of an enthusiast. Most of my friends think I'm a bit odd owning 10 watches. At one point I had 6 Rolexes. The fact is they do make a superb watch. Now I have 2. At 5k they were a great watch to own but the same watch at 15k is just silly and has very little to do with the actual watch. I wouldn't spend that much on any watch. I'm very obviously not their target market though. I think their target market has changed and their business model is clearly working for them. The bubble isn't going to burst anytime soon and that's after a global pandemic. They're all at it though. Omegas have skyrocketed too so it's not all Rolex.
    I'll keep my two, wear them and enjoy them.

  47. #197
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,510
    FT has an article today on watches and jewellery. It includes a feature on the eBay authentication service performed by STOL.

    Some interesting data on the market potential.

  48. #198
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    It's a great story, but I'm in no hurry.
    I have a feeling that it's going to be a great read when it does eventually happen. Life does have a habit of getting in the way of personal projects.

  49. #199
    Journeyman theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    Or maybe retailing has no attraction to the younger generations of the family ?

    It’s a hard position for any family business to find themselves in , I'm speaking from experience unfortunately.
    The two aren't mutually exclusive and you could be right. You might wonder why after 190 years worth of generations, the current generation aren't attracted to it.

  50. #200
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    3,499
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    The two aren't mutually exclusive and you could be right. You might wonder why after 190 years worth of generations, the current generation aren't attracted to it.
    How many people want to do what their mum and dad does?

    Most people plough their own furrow.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information