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Thread: ULEZ Extension

  1. #1

    ULEZ Extension

    Starts tomorrow in London. I got caught by the inner zone and had to pay a large fine, so don’t make the same mistake as me.

    Effectively if you have a diesel car produced before September 2015 or a petrol car before 2005 you going to have to pony up £12.50 per day if you want to drive in the extended area which is bounded by, but does not include the North Circular A406 and South Circular A205.

    £27.50 per day if you enter the ULEZ and congestion charging zone.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...ez-vrm-checker
    Last edited by noTAGlove; 24th October 2021 at 15:59.

  2. #2
    I reckon this ULEZ extension is going to catch a lot of unsupecting motorists out! £80 fine per day if you cough up promptly, otherwise £160 per day.

    Ouch.

    R
    Last edited by ralphy; 24th October 2021 at 16:35.
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  3. #3
    Craftsman Dr_Niss's Avatar
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    Also historic cars (over 40 years old) are exempt from the ULEZ but not congestion charge.

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  4. #4
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    I don't understand the production year limitations, the charge is specific to the emissions output, as I understand the min requirement to meet ULEZ is as per emission standards below;

    Euro 4 for petrol engines
    Euro 6 for diesel engines

    The year of production is irrelevant, no?

  5. #5
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Safest and (potentially) cheapest options are either:-

    Do not drive into the ULEZ zone if your vehicle is chargeable or set up a TFL account to pay charges.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    I reckon this ULEZ extension is going to catch a lot of unsupecting motorists out! £80 fine per day if you cough up promptly, otherwise £160 per day.

    Ouch.

    R
    My fine took two weeks to be posted to me.

    If it doesn’t click that you are doing anything wrong until the fine arrives in the post, and you keep on continuing to drive in the ULEZ fine on a daily basis, you can easily be a grand out of pocket.

  7. #7
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litcan91 View Post
    I don't understand the production year limitations, the charge is specific to the emissions output, as I understand the min requirement to meet ULEZ is as per emission standards below;

    Euro 4 for petrol engines
    Euro 6 for diesel engines

    The year of production is irrelevant, no?
    Correct, but the year is a general guide for people to double check their car if it's near that year of manufacture.

    We had a 2015 diesel Qashqai and it had to go.
    Last edited by wileeeeeey; 24th October 2021 at 17:43.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Correct, but the year is a general guide for people to double check their car if it's near that year of manufacture.

    We have a 2015 diesel Qashqai and it had to go.
    Agree, however it can be deceiving using this guidance, as an example my 64 diesel is compliant.

  9. #9
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litcan91 View Post
    Agree, however it can be deceiving using this guidance, as an example my 64 diesel is compliant.
    For most people, reading "if your car is not euro 6" won't click, but "if your car is older than X please check, put your number plate in this website" will.

  10. #10
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    I used to have a flat literally on the south circular. You pulled off the main road straight into the driveway. Looking at their map, anything inside the south circular is in the zone. How do they enforce this? Surely there can’t be a camera on every single road and driveway off the north/south circular?

  11. #11
    There are cameras and signs everywhere for it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I used to have a flat literally on the south circular. You pulled off the main road straight into the driveway. Looking at their map, anything inside the south circular is in the zone. How do they enforce this? Surely there can’t be a camera on every single road and driveway off the north/south circular?
    You underestimate TfL Big Brother

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I used to have a flat literally on the south circular. You pulled off the main road straight into the driveway. Looking at their map, anything inside the south circular is in the zone. How do they enforce this? Surely there can’t be a camera on every single road and driveway off the north/south circular?
    Doubt a drive off the south circular is liable (even if inside).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Doubt a drive off the south circular is liable (even if inside).
    Yeah, thats what I'm thinking...I guess you have to enter a road to be caught on camera. I was only intrigued because when I put my old flat postcode the map said it was inside but I can't see it being part of it.

  15. #15
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    A few years ago when the Birmingham clean Air zone I checked my 2014 Euro 6 compliant BMW 5 series was not exempt

  16. #16
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    Going to make a trip to Wembley IKEA expensive if you are coming from an anti clockwise direction. You turn off to the left (so inside the ULEZ) for a very short distance to go back under the North Circular. Surely bits like that are no charge anomalies.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Going to make a trip to Wembley IKEA expensive if you are coming from an anti clockwise direction. You turn off to the left (so inside the ULEZ) for a very short distance to go back under the North Circular. Surely bits like that are no charge anomalies.
    I very much doubt it. Common sense goes out the window, black and white, yes or no or fact comes into it. You are, or you are not in the paying zone.

    As an aside, living outside the ULEZ, i'll have to park up on the Sydenham side of the south circular, and go and walk to my sisters place who lives literals the other side of south circular on Brockley side.

    I also believe another elderly client of mine who lives in Greenwich has now got rid of her old Peugeot 205 with absurdly low mileage, as she will get a daily charge for tear being there...

  18. #18
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Going to make a trip to Wembley IKEA expensive if you are coming from an anti clockwise direction. You turn off to the left (so inside the ULEZ) for a very short distance to go back under the North Circular. Surely bits like that are no charge anomalies.
    They'll probably want you to turn at either Brent Cross/Hendon Way or Hanger Lane.

    Use Waze and mark your car as noncompliant, it will give you the option to avoid tolls.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    Going to make a trip to Wembley IKEA expensive if you are coming from an anti clockwise direction. You turn off to the left (so inside the ULEZ) for a very short distance to go back under the North Circular. Surely bits like that are no charge anomalies.
    You’ll be okay


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    You’ll be okay

    interesting, so there are quirks. Or common sense if you believe that of local government.

  21. #21
    Master dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    interesting, so there are quirks. Or common sense if you believe that of local government.
    Looks more like Ikea lobbying to me

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    interesting, so there are quirks. Or common sense if you believe that of local government.
    There are quite a few quirks if you zoom in on the TfL map.

    The biggest being the free zone along the A4 that extends a couple of miles into the ULEZ until you reach Hogarth roundabout.

    It is explained in the link below;

    https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2018/0355

  23. #23
    I live just off the south circular in Battersea . My 2010 focus is ulez exempt . Cannot expect it will change the amount of traffic around me .

  24. #24
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    I'm not from London but today I visited a place near the big Wing Yip off Staples Corner.

    Glad I did today otherwise I would have had to fork out the Ulez charge if I went tomorrow.

    Staying in Harrow tonight at a friend's and then towards Oxford tomorrow afternoon, hope I don't cross the Ulez zone.

    To be honest with this extension I'm only ever going to travel this way unless absolutely necessary.

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  25. #25
    I live inside the new ULEZ and it will be interesting to see what difference it makes to air quality. I hope it does improve. Luckily our 10 year old Skoda is compliant.

  26. #26
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    Talking to a contractor today, he reckons a lot of builders are putting older transit van engines in newer bodies so that they can avoid paying the charge. The logic of that was lost on me but something about the old polluting engines being better somehow.

  27. #27
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    I’m in the centre and I feel it was quieter today and maybe, just maybe, less traffic.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Estoril-5 View Post
    I
    To be honest with this extension I'm only ever going to travel this way unless absolutely necessary.
    Perfect. That's exactly what the policy is supposed to do. Discourage people from travelling in polluting vehicles unless they absolutely have to.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Kent View Post
    Talking to a contractor today, he reckons a lot of builders are putting older transit van engines in newer bodies so that they can avoid paying the charge. The logic of that was lost on me but something about the old polluting engines being better somehow.
    I'd like to see just exactly how they achieve that. Sounds like a load of old row locks to me if I'm honest...

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    I live inside the new ULEZ and it will be interesting to see what difference it makes to air quality. I hope it does improve. Luckily our 10 year old Skoda is compliant.
    Me too, but I don't think the much vaunted 'traffic evaporation' will happen. We are currently in an LTN 'consultation zone' which means we have an LTN trial effectively pushing traffic onto boundary roads and increasing pollution. Including at the local primary school which is on the A406 - already one of the most congested roads in the country. They've seen their independent pollution monitors record 20% increases since September 2019 (the one year trial has been lengthened to Jan 2022 'because of Covid 19'). Of course, the smaller affluent, quieter streets love it and lobbied hard under the very emotional banner of saving their children's lungs (admirable but misguided as it hasn't happened). The increases in property prices has been nice for them too.

    Freedom of Information requests to our local council asking about things like air quality and increased emergency vehicle response times have been met with silence. Apparently they didn't think to consult and give the relevant authorities keys to the wooden barrier posts and the Ambulance, Police and Fire Brigade say they wouldn't carry them anyway. They also claim their pollution monitors show no discernible increase but won't tell us where they are or how they're monitored.

    I believe in cleaner air and responsible vehicle usage, but don't see how making cars idle longer on boundary roads achieves this. It also disproportionately disadvantages poorer people with older vehicles who live on the boundary roads like the A406 which has seen a surge in residential developments (mostly for rent) since the widening of the road for the 2012 Olympics.

  31. #31
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Kent View Post
    Talking to a contractor today, he reckons a lot of builders are putting older transit van engines in newer bodies so that they can avoid paying the charge. The logic of that was lost on me but something about the old polluting engines being better somehow.
    This is utter nonsense - the ULEZ classification is based on the original vehicle, not the modifications.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by sweeney View Post
    Me too, but I don't think the much vaunted 'traffic evaporation' will happen. We are currently in an LTN 'consultation zone' which means we have an LTN trial effectively pushing traffic onto boundary roads and increasing pollution. Including at the local primary school which is on the A406 - already one of the most congested roads in the country. They've seen their independent pollution monitors record 20% increases since September 2019 (the one year trial has been lengthened to Jan 2022 'because of Covid 19'). Of course, the smaller affluent, quieter streets love it and lobbied hard under the very emotional banner of saving their children's lungs (admirable but misguided as it hasn't happened). The increases in property prices has been nice for them too.

    Freedom of Information requests to our local council asking about things like air quality and increased emergency vehicle response times have been met with silence. Apparently they didn't think to consult and give the relevant authorities keys to the wooden barrier posts and the Ambulance, Police and Fire Brigade say they wouldn't carry them anyway. They also claim their pollution monitors show no discernible increase but won't tell us where they are or how they're monitored.

    I believe in cleaner air and responsible vehicle usage, but don't see how making cars idle longer on boundary roads achieves this. It also disproportionately disadvantages poorer people with older vehicles who live on the boundary roads like the A406 which has seen a surge in residential developments (mostly for rent) since the widening of the road for the 2012 Olympics.
    Thought definitely needs to be put into the LTN’s. But unless you make it more difficult people will never change their habits. Displacement is a big problem for streets around us too where the LTNs have restricted routes. How do we get people to stop using cars otherwise?

    The number of cars I see on the school runs outside local primary schools is bonkers. Given how many there schools there are now how many people actually live so far away from the school they have to drive. My daughter is in Y1 and we walk/scoot/bike the 1.7miles to school. People don’t even seem to consider walking, they default to their car. Maybe they think a mile or mile and a half is too far to walk but if they’ve never tried how would they know.

    I support time limited LTN’s but I’m not on a route that is impacted either positively or negatively so it’s easy for me to say.

  33. #33
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeney View Post
    Me too, but I don't think the much vaunted 'traffic evaporation' will happen. We are currently in an LTN 'consultation zone' which means we have an LTN trial effectively pushing traffic onto boundary roads and increasing pollution. Including at the local primary school which is on the A406 - already one of the most congested roads in the country. They've seen their independent pollution monitors record 20% increases since September 2019 (the one year trial has been lengthened to Jan 2022 'because of Covid 19'). Of course, the smaller affluent, quieter streets love it and lobbied hard under the very emotional banner of saving their children's lungs (admirable but misguided as it hasn't happened). The increases in property prices has been nice for them too.

    Freedom of Information requests to our local council asking about things like air quality and increased emergency vehicle response times have been met with silence. Apparently they didn't think to consult and give the relevant authorities keys to the wooden barrier posts and the Ambulance, Police and Fire Brigade say they wouldn't carry them anyway. They also claim their pollution monitors show no discernible increase but won't tell us where they are or how they're monitored.

    I believe in cleaner air and responsible vehicle usage, but don't see how making cars idle longer on boundary roads achieves this. It also disproportionately disadvantages poorer people with older vehicles who live on the boundary roads like the A406 which has seen a surge in residential developments (mostly for rent) since the widening of the road for the 2012 Olympics.
    I thought that it was already acknowledged that TFL/London Council had not realised the revenues that they predicted (as advised by other cities who preceded London - "Don't think you you will realise revenue based on your current traffic")

    There is always a significant amount of "traffic evaporation" when tariffs are introduced.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    I’m in the centre and I feel it was quieter today and maybe, just maybe, less traffic.
    Half term lull.

  35. #35
    LTNs are a whole different discussion. Quite possibly the worst thought out bit of policy I've ever encountered. It immediately made my life miserable and benefited just the people whose roads had been blocked off and even some of them didn't like it.

    Thankfully they were removed in my locality after a lot of campaigning. I feel for any localities where they remain.

  36. #36
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    A quick question - it is years since I have driven into central London, but I am going to need to do so next month.

    Is a Range Rover Sport P400e, the plug in hybrid, exempt?
    So clever my foot fell off.

  37. #37
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    A quick question - it is years since I have driven into central London, but I am going to need to do so next month.

    Is a Range Rover Sport P400e, the plug in hybrid, exempt?
    Pop your plate in here

    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/

  38. #38
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    A quick question - it is years since I have driven into central London, but I am going to need to do so next month.

    Is a Range Rover Sport P400e, the plug in hybrid, exempt?
    Almost certainly, but if you haven’t got it yet, so don’t know the reg, Google image search for one and put its reg into the online checker
    Cheers..
    Jase

  39. #39
    Just checked my two cars, a 17 yo 3.5l V6 350z and a 16 yo 1.8 K-Series Elise.

    Both are exempt. Given their age I'm surprised about that.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Definitely the thing to do.

    I have noticed there can be admin errors. We had a couple of cars previously which flagged as chargeable although they were euro 6. This took some time to resolve with TfL. Required a letter from the manufacturer!!

  41. #41
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Bit of a faff registering today but done and a tenner a year for me which is still a bit meh......

    Pitch

  42. #42
    I was talking to a builder we use yesterday, he was telling me he was looking at buying new vans, its costing him another £36 per day, also they were carting rubbish away but now they are going to have a skip, he said with the licence it is around £800 per skip in central London,

  43. #43
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    This is utter nonsense - the ULEZ classification is based on the original vehicle, not the modifications.
    Not saying it’s happening but the ‘original vehicle’ would be the ‘newer body’ not the older engine surely?
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    This is utter nonsense - the ULEZ classification is based on the original vehicle, not the modifications.
    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low...t-the-standard

    Retrofit your vehicle

    Check your vehicle to see if it meets the LEZ emissions standards. If it doesn't, you may be able to retrofit your vehicle with emissions reduction technology.
    Emissions reduction technology

    Emissions reduction technologies include:

    • Selective catalytic reduction, which reduces NOx emissions
    • Replacement Euro VI engines
    • Converting a vehicle to electric power

  45. #45
    wish they would extend it further south and more in keeping with the extent of the north circular.
    it would cover where i live and hopefully reduce the pollution, i get far to many tradesmen parking outside sat there idling in their diesels, its free parking and a leafy street so an ideal place to park up but do you really need to have your engine running for hours at a time just to watch youtube on your phone?

  46. #46
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowdon View Post
    LTNs are a whole different discussion. Quite possibly the worst thought out bit of policy I've ever encountered. It immediately made my life miserable and benefited just the people whose roads had been blocked off and even some of them didn't like it.

    Thankfully they were removed in my locality after a lot of campaigning. I feel for any localities where they remain.
    My local council put them everywhere, meaning people had to drive longer routes and sit in traffic longer increasing pollution on the main roads.
    They have thankfully been removed over the last few weeks, all the LTNs did was increase congestion and move the problem affecting most residents to a select few.
    Very poor thought out policy. On my road they also increased the number of vehicles undertaking a u turn in a narrow street which is dangerous (in order to achieve the u turn you have to mount the pavement), previously they would have driven around the block. I am glad they have gone.
    The ULEZ is approx half a mile away, I am guessing traffic on the A406 will increase.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    meaning people had to drive longer routes and sit in traffic longer increasing pollution on the main roads.
    Isn’t that the point though? Until we make it really difficult for people to use cars they won’t change their habits. I think the LTN’s need further thought but closing routes at certain times of the day seems sensible to me.

    It will be interesting to see if over the longer term the LTNs that remain do reduce overall traffic, particularly on the displacement routes.

    People need to get out of their cars and walk/cycle or use public transport. The list of excuses in London is small. If my 6 year old can travel nearly two miles to school every morning under her own power I’m fairly sure 90% of Londoners can get out of their cars.

  48. #48
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Thanks for that. I’ve had the car nearly two weeks now, but they aren’t finding the registration yet - guess their system needs to update. It’s not until end of November I need to go, so hopefully will be done by then.

    I’m surprised these things don’t update virtually real time now.

    ETA - just remembered, this is a Capita system, so no surprise at all really.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  49. #49
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    Isn’t that the point though? Until we make it really difficult for people to use cars they won’t change their habits. I think the LTN’s need further thought but closing routes at certain times of the day seems sensible to me.

    It will be interesting to see if over the longer term the LTNs that remain do reduce overall traffic, particularly on the displacement routes.

    People need to get out of their cars and walk/cycle or use public transport. The list of excuses in London is small. If my 6 year old can travel nearly two miles to school every morning under her own power I’m fairly sure 90% of Londoners can get out of their cars.
    Agreed. All local journeys should be undertaken by foot or public transport, we do.
    My issue is with using the car for a longer journey, i.e. work where it is not possible to use public transport. In order to join up with the major routes or to return to my road from the major routes I have to add a mile and half of traffic snarled roads to the journey which used to be a five minute drive along 2 residential roads (already with traffic calming measures installed)
    Pollution is a problem that needs solving but you can’t just push it to someone’s area which is what the ULEZ and LTNs do.

    I don’t have the answers but I know what does not seem to be working. Would it have been more sensible to push any controlled area out to the M25 anyone coming in gets charged, anyone who lives inside also gets charge but at a reduced rate dependant on how green your car is? Unlikely to be popular but something needs to be done.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 26th October 2021 at 11:12.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Bit of a faff registering today but done and a tenner a year for me which is still a bit meh......

    Pitch
    i thought you had a Tesla which is zero emissions?

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